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 Stem Cell

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moorish
post Dec 16 2010, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 16 2010, 09:54 PM)
I felt want to understand more about stem cell and store it for my baby...
anyone stored & used stem cell for your baby or your family member before to cure decease?

so far i quoted:
CellSafe, Rm3700 (promotion price), SEPAX device, normal price RM4500 but 10% discount + free stoller with maybank card
StemLife, Rm4750 (promotion price), automated AXP processing
Cryocord, Rm4300 (normal price), normal processing; +RM600 for automated AXP device; +RM500 if store by vials

wondering is it worth to pay the amount to store stem cell up to 20years+, still deciding want to do get this services or not as getting more and more kids facing some deadly decease when first 10 years... the medical fees may cost a bomb... sweat.gif
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I opt for Stemlife, 2 years ago when I signed up the package was somewhere 2.8k I think.

Reason I went for stemlife,

they're bigger company, financially more sound (I hope) chances of them being around after 20 years are higher.

I ask for track record, where they brought out stem cell to heal people, they show me a few cases, whereelse from cryocord, the sales team told me this is P&C and simply refuse to show me any cases where they've successfully thawed cell and heal people.

Stemlife has a package where (tai ket lai si) if kena any disease and need to take out cell, they will pay us cash from company RM100k and not claim insurance like cryocord, the differences is you can only claim once from any insurance, this one I ask my insurant agent and he confirm with me.

Another thing you need to know, stemcell store during birth can only protect your child till around 12 years old, when they're older they need more cell which you just dun hv enuf from bloodcord, unfortunately msia being islam country cloning is prohibited, you need to export your cell to countrys like taiwan or china for cloning, the price I heard is few 100Ks.

Another reason I opt for stemlife is they use bag storage which cryocord use vial, bag is better coz you dun risk contamination.

I think if you can afford it, its good to store stemcell, in case (tai kat lai si) you still has a chance, money wise will cost a bomb, can always put in newspaper for public help but money alone wont do the trick if you dun have the ingredient.



This post has been edited by moorish: Dec 16 2010, 10:32 PM
moorish
post Dec 16 2010, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 16 2010, 10:39 PM)
seem like no recommended to settle payment one-off for 20 years and rather to pay yearly instead as concerned that company may close down anytime...  sweat.gif bcos as i understand the yearly maintenance cost to store stem cell is Rm250+ from CellSafe... hence as u said that the number stemcell may enough up to 10years+, still worth to maintain up to 20 years ?

yup, i also heard that StemLife will provide up to Rm100k as medical fees if required the stem cell for recovery... but the beneficial for baby only or anyone will used the stem cell?
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yup I'm paying yearly tongue.gif well this is still a new thing in msia, with 4 company fighting each other, someone gotta fall.

I cant rber if the 100K applies to baby or anyone in the family.

about maintaining it till 20 years, well from my understanding every year they're new breakthru from stemcell research, they'll keep getting more advances, time being I'll store for as long as I see fit
moorish
post Dec 17 2010, 12:13 AM

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QUOTE(Syd G @ Dec 16 2010, 11:29 PM)
I'm against storing cord blood cells.

If anyone's interested to know, I'll gladly tell you why.
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jom share share
moorish
post Dec 17 2010, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(Syd G @ Dec 17 2010, 04:42 PM)
Why I decided not to store my baby's cord blood :

1) The probability of usage is low. Out of 10,000 samples stored by one of the company, only 6 were even transplanted. 3 for the baby's use, 3 for baby's sibling (usually the younger siblings were conceived to save the elder sibling so it can be discarded from the statistics). Most of the company's transplants are adult stem cells (for athletes) and animal stem cells (for horses). To put this in perspective, your baby has a higher chance of getting cleft lip/palate (1 in 700) or down syndrome (1 in 800).

This is something very new and obviously we never hope to use them, but when the unforseen do arises at least we have hopes, you know stemcell is not something money can buy? you may need to wait for years and some unfortunate people cant even find matching stemcell

2) Number of stem cells harvested highly varies. Sometimes can get a lot, sometimes can get little - but the company wont tell you this. If you get a lot, good - prolly can be enough till the baby is up to certain weight. If not, then they wont tell you (and you'll still keep on paying maintenance fee - they'll pray hard you wont need the cells. But if you ever need them - too bad, they hv insurance that will cover their butt).

When the readings are low, they will not accept your stemcell.
You will get a report on the counts, they issue you a cert after successfully stored



3) The companies arent making enough money from the maintenance fee to cover their costs. One of the biggest company is a public company so you can vet through the financial details in their website. They've been making loses for a couple of years now - so by the time if you ever need the stem cells, hope that the company is still open.

Non of the stemcell company making money yet, you get to see stemlife financial report because its public listed, anyway as I was told, this biz takes sometime to make profit. If in case the company shuts down, we are allow to take back out stemcell and park it elsewhere.


4) The turnover rate of their staff is very high. For labs that open 24 hours a day, most work on 12 hours shift - and when working condition is not optimal, most of staff leave after few months on the job. So the lab is staffed by mostly fresh grads. And they're not being paid really well (refer item 3) so they come and they go. Are you putting your trust on these fresh employes?

If in anycase the stemcell become void for any reason, we're covered in our contract, cant rber how much RM100K I think for us to purchase in overseas. Plus another RM100k for the process, so thats RM200k

5) 'Automated AXP Processing' is purely marketing. You'll get it when the machines are working. If the machines break or under maintenance, the cells will be manually processed. But you wont get back the difference in your money.

Not entirely marketing, you get more cell from AXP processing as compared to manual.


--

I'll just stop there for now.

Hey but if you have the money, then by all means.
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moorish
post Dec 17 2010, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(Syd G @ Dec 17 2010, 05:10 PM)
We can agree to disagree.

One of my best friend works in the lab smile.gif
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A recent case of how 2 female msian got HIV from dentist, will it stop you going to dentist?

I've many frens work in hospital, the stories they told me is horrifying, but that doesnt stop me from going to hospital as I dun see me having other choices.

Another reason why bag is safer as it doesnt risk contamination, everything is in the bag you dun take it out as oppose to vial storing.
moorish
post Dec 18 2010, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(Syd G @ Dec 18 2010, 09:21 AM)
I get my information from the insiders, you get your information from the sales people.

1) Btw stem cells dont cure 'any disease'.

Stem cell DO cure disease and injury. Where do you get your facts from? just google stemcell and you get tons of infos

2) It's limited to certain bodyweight., depending on how many cells so adults most likely wont be able to use them.
The bloodcord cell is enuf till 12 yrs old, any further we need to take it to overseas for cloning, without the right master cell you've no hope even with all the money in your pocket

3) As for the 'take back stemcells and park it elsewhere', they need to be kept at -190degrees. The poster above already mentioned that it cant be taken out or exposed to air.

You can take it out and park it else where, put in freezer bag, it wont be exposed to air as its seal in a bag, but must be done quick.


-

Anyway, since you guys are so determined to prove me wrong, I'm just gonna stop at item (5) as above. My goal was not to make you not store your baby's cord blood. My goal was to make sure that you get your information not just from the company's sales people.

After all it's your money.
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This is a good discussion, at least we can explore further to the benefits of storing stemcell.

The stemcell not only helps the baby, it may even save the parents and siblings life along the way.

Treat banking stemcell as buying another insurance, only thing this type is known as Bio-insurance, you pay 3k, in an unwanted event you get stemcell thats 100% matching, you get RM100k cash. Sounds like a good deal to me.



This post has been edited by moorish: Dec 18 2010, 10:04 AM
moorish
post Dec 20 2010, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 08:53 AM)
huh? my plan was a 10yr plan.
Bro, best you do your research from a scientific point of view plus understanding the level of integrity of Bolehland's businessman.

Looking back, I would have make a better choice by buying an insurance policy for the mother & child instead of buying stemcell storage. I dun see Stem Cell as even an insurance.

BTW why do I get a feeling that you are promoting Stem cell storage?
*
Pls share why you regret? we would like to learn.

did they fail you?
did they cheat you?
moorish
post Dec 20 2010, 06:11 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 12:13 PM)
BTW do you know you can buy stem cell, if you really need it?
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I think stemcell is not like car sparepart, give the serial code and you get the exact part, sorry, it doesnt work that way, pls check on average what are the percentage of ppl getting a matching donor cell, and how many percent never get matching donor.

Even matching cell there are still a probability of body rejections.

Do you know how much to source stemcell? 2009 rate RM80,000 and FYI insurance company do not pay for buying stemcell, you need to use your own money.

You still hvnt answered my question,

Did they cheat you?
Did they fail you?

Pls share with us, your information may help others who are undecisive, do not just say you regret without giving any valid reason.


Added on December 20, 2010, 6:20 pm
QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 02:26 PM)
The probability rate to recover with stem cell still too low unless you or your kid has genetic abnormality.
So it is probably best to see where you should put your hard earn money. Check your kid's genome for any problem. Weigh out your option as to the %age of using that stem cell.
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What if you're unlucky your child or sibblings or either parents (tai ket lai si) struck with some disease or injury and you cant find a matching cell? ever tot of that?

FYI, stem cell do not help only in certain genetic defects, pls study more on the coverage of disease and injury.

Do you know stemcell is a very promising alternative, do you know the amount of time and money spend by so many countries to develop stem cell technology? whether you like it or not stem cell is the future. Right now they may be about 60 plus medical condition you can use stem cell but in 20 years time I'm quite certain the numbers will at least double. You still think its a stupid idea?


QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 02:26 PM)
Check your kid's genome for any problem. Weigh out your option as to the %age of using that stem cell before it expires vs other forms of insurance.
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Pls elaborate what do you mean by expire?

QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 02:26 PM)
I guess this is going to be the main talking point as to whether it is worth throw money to this people. And ethically, Amber Chia is not the kind of ambassador I would trust, my personal opinion.
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If there're better company with a 30 plus year track record, I would put my money there, but right now there isnt, your child will be born now, The correct question to ask yourelf is you can choose to store or throw the stem cell away, so what its going to be?


Added on December 20, 2010, 6:30 pm
QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 20 2010, 06:01 PM)

anyway, back to topic. so stem cell cant cure for other decease beside genetic's faults?
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I think its the other way round;

example if Baby A store stem cell, 2 years later baby A detected with leukemia, thats genetic fault, Baby A stem cell is genetic unstable and cannot be use to cure his own leukemia. Company will pay RM100k for baby A to find suitable stem cell.

However if baby's A sibbling or parents detected with leukemia, then his stem cell can be use to cure the disease because Baby's A stem cell is stable.

Stem cell is like a master blueprint, if the babys blue print is written wrongly then the stem cell is koyak edi, no use.

This post has been edited by moorish: Dec 20 2010, 06:30 PM
moorish
post Dec 20 2010, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(vergas @ Dec 20 2010, 07:55 PM)
I like this view the best:
Full article
http://mpf.org.my/wp/?p=324

And another one:

Full article
http://www.ogsm.org.my/cord_blood_banking.php
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I've enquire with the national cord bank but unfortunately they only accept people who give birth at KL GH, they do not accept from any other hospital, go figure. doh.gif


Added on December 20, 2010, 10:39 pm
QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 08:29 PM)
rclxub.gif  wah lau eh, hell know no fury like a lady's scorn. laugh.gif

Why la so much emo? Did I break your rice bowl? hmm.gif

How poor can your judgement be?


Actually I did answer your question, unfortunately you don't read too well or missed post#25.

More over you justified it in your own statement - in 20 years time I'm quite certain the numbers will at least double. . And girl I did my research too during my 'opportunity' and I guess, as vergas's article puts it, emotional marketing took over.
But after all these years I also realised..
..Stem cell is still in its infancy (even after 6 yrs already as a customer).
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I think the person who fail at reading is you, if you wanna go to the level of personal attack I've no problem with that playing to your level, anyway back to the topic, 60 diseases and counting is still consider nothing to you? Maybe you have a very high expectation and expect stem cell to be the silver bullet.

You said its an emotional marketing? are you saying those 60 diseases are not real?
or Because the chances of getting them are so slim we need not do anything at all and leave it to fate?
Is this the same as we tell the airline captain the chances of an airplane crashing is so low we need not wear the seat belt "during take off and landing"



This post has been edited by moorish: Dec 20 2010, 10:39 PM
moorish
post Dec 22 2010, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 22 2010, 12:00 PM)
Wat are the 60 diseases?
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cant rber, you've sign up why not you call them and ask.

I think the 60 diseases or rather 60 conditions is inclusive of injury, one of them I rber is spinal cord injury.
moorish
post Dec 22 2010, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(ingear @ Dec 22 2010, 11:42 AM)
After reading all the posts, it looks like those who opposed/discouraged stem cell storage were more likely being attacked.

If an unfortunate event really happens to a child, but his/her stem cell is stored, then one MAY have the parts to help the kid. The next thing is, you better make sure that there is someone in this world is working on that particular disease RIGHT NOW. Just because one has the parts doesn't mean that the cure will appear next minute. It may takes years to put together everything for a preliminary trial in oversea. And those technologies are not mature in Msia yet. I agree that stem cell has a promising future, but we or our babies may not see the bright side in the near future. Get the medical facts right is important.
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Stemcell stored not just to help that baby, also their sibblings and parents.

Stemcell is one of the most extensive research going on in the medical field right now, many countries are spending a lot of time and money, Singapore, Taiwan and China particularly.

Your baby is born right now, you've a choice to store the cell or throw it away, what if for some medical breakthru and a cure is successful but you dun have the cell?
moorish
post Dec 22 2010, 08:57 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 22 2010, 08:15 PM)
They also says not so many, so I wan to know why are you so sure have 60? hmm.gif
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60 is what I could recall, if you wanna be sure why not you call them or do a search online yourself?

can I be clear what you're implying?
are you saying you are
not satisfied with the company you've park your baby's stem cell?
or
You're not a believer of parking stemcell and you've regretted for your action?



Added on December 22, 2010, 9:27 pmJust a quick google search and

http://stemcellresearchnews.net/Diseases_Treated.aspx

QUOTE
What diseases can be treated using stem cells?

Cord blood stem cell transplants have already changed—and saved—thousands of lives around the world. They have already been used to treat more than 75 diseases, including numerous types of malignancies, anemia's, inherited metabolic disorders and deficiencies of the immune system.
Acute Leukemia:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
2 years ago I could recall 60 medical conditions, now since we're in the topic I was curious and did another search and the numbers now reads 75. And its not counting injury like spinal cord, knee cap and so on.

another interesting explanation on stem cell usage:

QUOTE
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by moorish: Dec 24 2010, 10:29 AM
moorish
post Dec 23 2010, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 23 2010, 08:29 AM)
Why should I trust a site that is marketing & promoting storage of stem cells?
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As mention many times, do your own research. you still hvnt answered me, where do you actually stand?

We've already passed the time where we question what can you do with your babys cord blood, stem cell treatment are very real and its no scifi movie, its already happening.

As I've told you many times, throw away your babys blood cord if you dun like the idea. Isnt it simple?

Or you may ask yourself this, why is countries like US and most of develop countries has a public blood cord banking and store all their citizens cord blood?

Malaysia has a cord blood banking but you must deliver your baby at GH, anywhere else you need to store it privately or throw it away.

A simple calculation for you to consider:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by moorish: Dec 23 2010, 10:43 AM
moorish
post Dec 23 2010, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 23 2010, 12:05 PM)
i just want to understand why company have the right to use our stem cell even though we paid for their service...
the clause is from the agreement... need to understand more before any sign up...

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No they do not have the rights to use our stem cell, we can sue them kao kao if they do.

QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 23 2010, 12:05 PM)

anyway, as my opinion use vehicles as example, storing stem cell vehicles equipped with Air Bag / Anti-lock Brake System and hence with accident insurance for personal as well... for in case accidents happened, Air Bag / ABS system may save our life even though managed to claim compensate/medical fees from insurance company, no point to claim compensate/medical fees if dead... for those very careful driver, Air Bag / ABS system will be useless since the probability of accidents will be quite low... but still most of modern vehicles must equipped with this system for unpredictable incidents...
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In singapore you dun have to store stem cell privately, they've a national cord banking free for all their citizen, in malaysia we have to take care of ourselves, gomen dun provide this service.


moorish
post Dec 24 2010, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 24 2010, 10:18 AM)
bcos i see the agreement showing the clause and no write in detail why they want to do so...

as heard singapore having high taxation for variety future benefits (such as local KWSP and SOSCO), maybe part of taxation used for medical usage (store stem cells) as well... maybe malaysia due to low taxation and improper arrangement for the funds...
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I think it meant they can sub the cryo to a third party, means stemlife is main contractor, 3rd party company dealing in cryo storage.
moorish
post Dec 28 2010, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(Syd G @ Dec 28 2010, 10:56 AM)
the current chance statistics on using own cell from one of the company is is 0.03%
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If whole of malaysia citizen parked their stem cell and 0.03% chances of using then I would agree the use of stem cell is quite small.

I think last I heard was less than 10,000 ppl park their stem cell and more than 60% are new born babies, plus the technology of stemcell is limited to around 70 or 80 disease.

So your statistic should not use to discourage ppl from parking stem cell, tell me what if one day a good friend of yours actually listen to your advise and his baby kena some kinda disease that needs stem cell to survive?

moorish
post Dec 28 2010, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 28 2010, 11:43 AM)
Not 100% true.

A woman with kidney disease has died after receiving an experimental stem cell treatment at a private clinic in Thailand, and a postmortem examination of her kidneys revealed that the treatment was almost certainly responsible for her death.
The woman suffered from lupus nephritis, a disease in which the immune system attacks the kidneys. When medications no longer controlled her disease, she went to a still-unnamed clinic in Bangkok where doctors said they could treat her disease using stem cells drawn from her own bone marrow.
See report below >>
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I think this pretty much explain everything,

many unnamed clinic create problem of fatal consequences, eg breast enlargement, liposuction, placenta, botox, so are you gonna say all these treatment are dangerous and doesnt work? Its unqualified doctors that kills not the treatment.

BTW stemcell are very new, there're many treatment still in experimental stages, its like beta version, so dun expect a miracle.


Added on December 29, 2010, 10:31 am
QUOTE(Syd G @ Dec 28 2010, 11:17 AM)
Not discourage, inform smile.gif

I prefer people make their own informed decisions instead of fear marketing.
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This is not fear marketing
This is hope marketing rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by moorish: Dec 29 2010, 10:54 AM
moorish
post Dec 30 2010, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(ingear @ Dec 30 2010, 11:30 AM)
park the stem cells and hope that one has a back up plan but then don't expect a miracle comes out from the plan ?  unsure.gif
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Stem cell is not the all cure, it can only treat certain condition, 70 plus to be precise.
moorish
post Dec 30 2010, 06:16 PM

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QUOTE(janszmatt @ Dec 30 2010, 02:54 PM)
This morning during a discussion with my uncle, his wife's doctor says most many treatment still in experimental stages INCLUDING many on your list!
And many are not available in Malaysia. So how?
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Lets put it this way, if you tai ket lai see kena one of those disease, no cure you wait to die, what are you gonna do?

All the money in the world oso no use, but if there is an experimental cure that yield result, but its in overseas, you can at least try it out.

2nd if your frens wife is a doc then she should know stem cell currently is the greatest hope for humankind.

3rd, you can choose to throw away your bloodcord or you can choose to store it, your call.

QUOTE(janszmatt @ Dec 30 2010, 02:54 PM)
Who pays for the additional charge in overseas?
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You can buy insurance or you can raise public fund,

Dun mix hospital treatment and banking stem cell, 2 different thing, but without matching cell all the money in the world will not save your life.

 

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