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 Stem Cell

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TSgkl83
post Dec 19 2010, 10:26 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 19 2010, 10:01 PM)
It is so not worth it.
BTW my kid's cord blood has just 4 more years to go.
*

if nothing happen, it may like pieces of rubbish; if something happen, it may worth like a gold mine

mind to share the packages coverage you signed? just for more understanding before make decision...
no going to pay for the annual fees to maintain stem cell after 4 years?

This post has been edited by gkl83: Dec 19 2010, 10:27 PM
DarkNite
post Dec 20 2010, 08:53 AM

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QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 19 2010, 10:26 PM)
if nothing happen, it may like pieces of rubbish; if something happen, it may worth like a gold mine

mind to share the packages coverage you signed? just for more understanding before make decision...
no going to pay for the annual fees to maintain stem cell after 4 years?
*

huh? my plan was a 10yr plan.
Bro, best you do your research from a scientific point of view plus understanding the level of integrity of Bolehland's businessman.

Looking back, I would have make a better choice by buying an insurance policy for the mother & child instead of buying stemcell storage. I dun see Stem Cell as even an insurance.

BTW why do I get a feeling that you are promoting Stem cell storage?

This post has been edited by DarkNite: Dec 20 2010, 08:54 AM
moorish
post Dec 20 2010, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 08:53 AM)
huh? my plan was a 10yr plan.
Bro, best you do your research from a scientific point of view plus understanding the level of integrity of Bolehland's businessman.

Looking back, I would have make a better choice by buying an insurance policy for the mother & child instead of buying stemcell storage. I dun see Stem Cell as even an insurance.

BTW why do I get a feeling that you are promoting Stem cell storage?
*
Pls share why you regret? we would like to learn.

did they fail you?
did they cheat you?
TSgkl83
post Dec 20 2010, 11:40 AM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 08:53 AM)
huh? my plan was a 10yr plan.
Bro, best you do your research from a scientific point of view plus understanding the level of integrity of Bolehland's businessman.

Looking back, I would have make a better choice by buying an insurance policy for the mother & child instead of buying stemcell storage. I dun see Stem Cell as even an insurance.

BTW why do I get a feeling that you are promoting Stem cell storage?
*

about the bolehland businessman work style, i look into it as well... i request 2 companies for a copy of their documentation upon signing their packages... bcos i prefer to read thru in detail before sign up... unlucky that one of companies refuse to give a copy, sound fishy may a trap in the future due to the black & white limitation, most probably the company out from my list... i prefer the company with full transparency at least for more understanding about their T&C before sign up...

about insurance, the common insurance that we know have the limitation too, we can't claim unlimited money from insurance company depend the type of packages we signed up... no matter how premium is the insurance packages, still have the limitation... old words, in this reality have something which can't buy with cash no matter how rich we are... even though insurance may a pieces of rubbish too if we have no chances to claim if suddenly "disappear" or healthy enough till dead... insurance just like giving "hope" or "wish" only with limited resources, but it still wasn't a "dream" with unlimited resources...

assumed we bought a medical insurance/life insurance for our new born baby... so unlucky that found out that our kids have the disease which required long term recovery by medical chemical and expensive to afford in the future... if with stem cells, it may fasten the speed of recovery, lower medical cost and lower hassle... in addition, we can claim certain amount from insurance company at the same time for particular decease to cure decease... 1 stone hit 2 birds... smile.gif so stem cell look alike as bio-insurance and common insurance as cash-insurance...

i'm no work for any stem cell company or any my friend working with stem cell company... i also have the commitment on insurances, i trying to squeeze hard for medical insurance now... doh.gif as my past from science educated background and barely understand some biology knowledge... furthermore, bcos i have a nephew-in-law who facing physical problems when new born, eye ball problem (cant see clearly) and deaf (ear problem and caused can't talk as well), but unfortunately they realized that their baby facing's physical problems when 1-2 years old... the medical fees for their daughter stressing them and forced to save & squeeze more for un-predictable medical fees... that why my parents-in-law very concern in insurances... if have the stem cells, maybe still have the recovery possibility to rebuild the cells again without worry much about the future medical fees...

anyway, you can share your story for brainstorming purpose... maybe you have something that i dont know yet... smile.gif

This post has been edited by gkl83: Dec 20 2010, 11:54 AM
DarkNite
post Dec 20 2010, 12:13 PM

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Stem cell is still in its infancy and there are just TOO many claim which are not substantiated. Reading back at what you have written I see too many ASSUMPTIONS, IF's and Maybe's. Sorry as I person who has bought a Stem Cell program, if give the oppotunity again I would not subscribe UNLESS there is substantial improvement in its usage. Currently it is just not worth it!

BTW do you know you can buy stem cell, if you really need it?
TSgkl83
post Dec 20 2010, 12:41 PM

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but one of video i posted at 1st page which Malaysia patient case used stem cell and shown in newspaper... or you means the outcomes still no good enough or the probability rate to recover with stem cell still low?

no idea, beside request from cord blood bank... maybe each hospital will store our cord blood by themselves quietly if we didn't request for own bank storage purpose... but how much the cost if we buy cord blood? i don't mind to buy if really need it... but how about the matching probability with other ppl's stem cells? lets assumed again that i said 67% matching will be do, wondering why still many kids under sickness? bcos the expensive medical fees for buying stem cells? or the matching probability should be higher than 67% and minimized the chances?

sorry if offended or asking so much as i prefer understand more about it... i know that sales man always talk with nice statements with over-commitment as i experienced now, end up technical team suffering due to their over-commitment... doh.gif hence they (stem cell company) also invited Amber Chia as their ambassador...hm... so i concerned on company's ethical issues too such as close down, cheating, difficulties to claim fees (Rm100k), etc...

This post has been edited by gkl83: Dec 20 2010, 12:53 PM
DarkNite
post Dec 20 2010, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 20 2010, 12:41 PM)
but one of video i posted at 1st page which Malaysia patient case used stem cell and shown in newspaper... or you means the outcomes still no good enough or the probability rate to recover with stem cell still low?
*
The probability rate to recover with stem cell still too low unless you or your kid has genetic abnormality.
So it is probably best to see where you should put your hard earn money. Check your kid's genome for any problem. Weigh out your option as to the %age of using that stem cell before it expires vs other forms of insurance.

QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 20 2010, 12:41 PM)
....so i concerned on company's ethical issues too such as close down, cheating, difficulties to claim fees (Rm100k), etc...
*
I guess this is going to be the main talking point as to whether it is worth throw money to this people. And ethically, Amber Chia is not the kind of ambassador I would trust, my personal opinion.
TSgkl83
post Dec 20 2010, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 02:26 PM)
The probability rate to recover with stem cell still too low unless you or your kid has genetic abnormality.
So it is probably best to see where you should put your hard earn money. Check your kid's genome for any problem. Weigh out your option as to the %age of using that stem cell before it expires vs other forms of insurance.
*

seem i can sync with your understanding...
i will check with doctor about the recovery rate by stem cells with current technology

QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 02:26 PM)
I guess this is going to be the main talking point as to whether it is worth throw money to this people. And ethically, Amber Chia is not the kind of ambassador I would trust, my personal opinion.
*

ethical issues quite subject to talk about... the company can be the best company for now, but cant guarantee that they wont cheat in the next 10+ years...

anyway, one of company willing to provide a copy for documents for my references, glad that transparency is there... as what we talk about ethical and SLA ("Service Level Agreement" in technical term) come across my mind, i will look onto the copy whether it talking about the respond time for delivery, justify the definition of "dead" / "dying" stem cells in order to compensate RM100k due to their faults, the processes and documentation required for medical fees RM100k claim, etc...

as checked around, one of friend's stem cell infected by virus but no compensation coverage yet that time... believe the technology still no enough mature yet to maintain these "living creature"...
DarkNite
post Dec 20 2010, 04:48 PM

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Also I think start-up parents or parents having 1st child tends to be more vulnerable and susceptible to 'salesman talk'
TSgkl83
post Dec 20 2010, 06:01 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 04:48 PM)
Also I think start-up parents or parents having 1st child tends to be more vulnerable and susceptible to 'salesman talk'
*

that one of the reason i open this topic for more understanding before "brainwash" by salesman... tongue.gif
but still my wife prefer to store cord blood, she prefer "play safe" rather than "take risk"...

anyway, back to topic. so stem cell cant cure for other decease beside genetic's faults?

This post has been edited by gkl83: Dec 20 2010, 06:12 PM
moorish
post Dec 20 2010, 06:11 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 12:13 PM)
BTW do you know you can buy stem cell, if you really need it?
*
I think stemcell is not like car sparepart, give the serial code and you get the exact part, sorry, it doesnt work that way, pls check on average what are the percentage of ppl getting a matching donor cell, and how many percent never get matching donor.

Even matching cell there are still a probability of body rejections.

Do you know how much to source stemcell? 2009 rate RM80,000 and FYI insurance company do not pay for buying stemcell, you need to use your own money.

You still hvnt answered my question,

Did they cheat you?
Did they fail you?

Pls share with us, your information may help others who are undecisive, do not just say you regret without giving any valid reason.


Added on December 20, 2010, 6:20 pm
QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 02:26 PM)
The probability rate to recover with stem cell still too low unless you or your kid has genetic abnormality.
So it is probably best to see where you should put your hard earn money. Check your kid's genome for any problem. Weigh out your option as to the %age of using that stem cell.
*
What if you're unlucky your child or sibblings or either parents (tai ket lai si) struck with some disease or injury and you cant find a matching cell? ever tot of that?

FYI, stem cell do not help only in certain genetic defects, pls study more on the coverage of disease and injury.

Do you know stemcell is a very promising alternative, do you know the amount of time and money spend by so many countries to develop stem cell technology? whether you like it or not stem cell is the future. Right now they may be about 60 plus medical condition you can use stem cell but in 20 years time I'm quite certain the numbers will at least double. You still think its a stupid idea?


QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 02:26 PM)
Check your kid's genome for any problem. Weigh out your option as to the %age of using that stem cell before it expires vs other forms of insurance.
*
Pls elaborate what do you mean by expire?

QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 02:26 PM)
I guess this is going to be the main talking point as to whether it is worth throw money to this people. And ethically, Amber Chia is not the kind of ambassador I would trust, my personal opinion.
*
If there're better company with a 30 plus year track record, I would put my money there, but right now there isnt, your child will be born now, The correct question to ask yourelf is you can choose to store or throw the stem cell away, so what its going to be?


Added on December 20, 2010, 6:30 pm
QUOTE(gkl83 @ Dec 20 2010, 06:01 PM)

anyway, back to topic. so stem cell cant cure for other decease beside genetic's faults?
*
I think its the other way round;

example if Baby A store stem cell, 2 years later baby A detected with leukemia, thats genetic fault, Baby A stem cell is genetic unstable and cannot be use to cure his own leukemia. Company will pay RM100k for baby A to find suitable stem cell.

However if baby's A sibbling or parents detected with leukemia, then his stem cell can be use to cure the disease because Baby's A stem cell is stable.

Stem cell is like a master blueprint, if the babys blue print is written wrongly then the stem cell is koyak edi, no use.

This post has been edited by moorish: Dec 20 2010, 06:30 PM
vergas
post Dec 20 2010, 07:55 PM

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I like this view the best:
QUOTE
Thus, the concept of a ‘biological insurance’ which is much hyped by the private cord banks is therefore actuarially unsound given the very low estimates on the likelihood of use, or the need of using one’s own cord blood for transplantation. The emotional marketing is however burgeoning the bank balances of private cord banks.

In the final analysis, public cord blood banking should be expanded for the benefit of the wider population. Collection of altruistic donations of cord blood and directed donations for families at high risk should be encouraged. The National Cord Blood Bank was set up to achieve these objectives at no cost. Rather than just to keep the cord blood banked for one’s own use, it should be made available to others who may need the cord blood in the allogenic (genetically different) setting.

Dr. Musa Mohd. Nordin
Consultant Paediatrician & Neonatologist


Full article
http://mpf.org.my/wp/?p=324

And another one:
QUOTE
There are no accurate estimates on the likelihood of children requiring their own stored cord blood. The best guess of this ever happening range from 1 in 1,000 to 1 in 200,000. There is therefore only a tiny and remote chance of children ever requiring to utilize their own stored cells.

Scientific indications for collection and banking of cord blood are far and few in between.  In families where there is a known genetic disease that can be treated by HSC transplantation, cord blood collection and storage are recommended for siblings born into these families. Cord blood collection is also recommended in specific settings, for e.g.

1. A sibling who is suffering from leukemia, just in case he relapses and may require cord blood transplantation
2. A sibling in whom cord blood transplant is indicated but has no match related donor available.

The storing of cord blood privately by private cord banks is based on the premise that the sample is stored specifically for use within the family concerned and more specifically the child's own future use (autologous transplant).

Autologous transplantation itself may be problematic because the use of one’s own stem cells may not cure the underlying pathology. In the case of leukaemia and other congenital disorders, e.g. Thalassaemia and Fanconi’s Anaemia, transplanting one’s own stem cells with the defective genetic and immune structure would only result in returning the disease to oneself.

Full article
http://www.ogsm.org.my/cord_blood_banking.php

This post has been edited by vergas: Dec 20 2010, 08:02 PM
DarkNite
post Dec 20 2010, 08:29 PM

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QUOTE(moorish @ Dec 20 2010, 06:11 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

*
rclxub.gif wah lau eh, hell know no fury like a lady's scorn. laugh.gif

Why la so much emo? Did I break your rice bowl? hmm.gif

Actually I did answer your question, unfortunately you don't read too well or missed post#25.
More over you justified it in your own statement - in 20 years time I'm quite certain the numbers will at least double. . And girl I did my research too during my 'opportunity' and I guess, as vergas's article puts it, emotional marketing took over.
But after all these years I also realised..
..Stem cell is still in its infancy (even after 6 yrs already as a customer).

This post has been edited by DarkNite: Dec 20 2010, 08:38 PM
moorish
post Dec 20 2010, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(vergas @ Dec 20 2010, 07:55 PM)
I like this view the best:
Full article
http://mpf.org.my/wp/?p=324

And another one:

Full article
http://www.ogsm.org.my/cord_blood_banking.php
*
I've enquire with the national cord bank but unfortunately they only accept people who give birth at KL GH, they do not accept from any other hospital, go figure. doh.gif


Added on December 20, 2010, 10:39 pm
QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 20 2010, 08:29 PM)
rclxub.gif  wah lau eh, hell know no fury like a lady's scorn. laugh.gif

Why la so much emo? Did I break your rice bowl? hmm.gif

How poor can your judgement be?


Actually I did answer your question, unfortunately you don't read too well or missed post#25.

More over you justified it in your own statement - in 20 years time I'm quite certain the numbers will at least double. . And girl I did my research too during my 'opportunity' and I guess, as vergas's article puts it, emotional marketing took over.
But after all these years I also realised..
..Stem cell is still in its infancy (even after 6 yrs already as a customer).
*
I think the person who fail at reading is you, if you wanna go to the level of personal attack I've no problem with that playing to your level, anyway back to the topic, 60 diseases and counting is still consider nothing to you? Maybe you have a very high expectation and expect stem cell to be the silver bullet.

You said its an emotional marketing? are you saying those 60 diseases are not real?
or Because the chances of getting them are so slim we need not do anything at all and leave it to fate?
Is this the same as we tell the airline captain the chances of an airplane crashing is so low we need not wear the seat belt "during take off and landing"



This post has been edited by moorish: Dec 20 2010, 10:39 PM
ingear
post Dec 22 2010, 11:42 AM

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After reading all the posts, it looks like those who opposed/discouraged stem cell storage were more likely being attacked.

If an unfortunate event really happens to a child, but his/her stem cell is stored, then one MAY have the parts to help the kid. The next thing is, you better make sure that there is someone in this world is working on that particular disease RIGHT NOW. Just because one has the parts doesn't mean that the cure will appear next minute. It may takes years to put together everything for a preliminary trial in oversea. And those technologies are not mature in Msia yet. I agree that stem cell has a promising future, but we or our babies may not see the bright side in the near future. Get the medical facts right is important.




DarkNite
post Dec 22 2010, 12:00 PM

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Wat are the 60 diseases?
moorish
post Dec 22 2010, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Dec 22 2010, 12:00 PM)
Wat are the 60 diseases?
*
cant rber, you've sign up why not you call them and ask.

I think the 60 diseases or rather 60 conditions is inclusive of injury, one of them I rber is spinal cord injury.
TSgkl83
post Dec 22 2010, 07:27 PM

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managed to get a copy of agreement, saw one of the clauses said that stem cell company have reserve for the right to assign its rights to any third party without consent of us, but will notify us in writing within 30 days... thought we paid for their services? doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif
moorish
post Dec 22 2010, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(ingear @ Dec 22 2010, 11:42 AM)
After reading all the posts, it looks like those who opposed/discouraged stem cell storage were more likely being attacked.

If an unfortunate event really happens to a child, but his/her stem cell is stored, then one MAY have the parts to help the kid. The next thing is, you better make sure that there is someone in this world is working on that particular disease RIGHT NOW. Just because one has the parts doesn't mean that the cure will appear next minute. It may takes years to put together everything for a preliminary trial in oversea. And those technologies are not mature in Msia yet. I agree that stem cell has a promising future, but we or our babies may not see the bright side in the near future. Get the medical facts right is important.
*
Stemcell stored not just to help that baby, also their sibblings and parents.

Stemcell is one of the most extensive research going on in the medical field right now, many countries are spending a lot of time and money, Singapore, Taiwan and China particularly.

Your baby is born right now, you've a choice to store the cell or throw it away, what if for some medical breakthru and a cure is successful but you dun have the cell?
DarkNite
post Dec 22 2010, 08:15 PM

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QUOTE(moorish @ Dec 22 2010, 07:24 PM)
cant rber, you've sign up why not you call them and ask.

I think the 60 diseases or rather 60 conditions is inclusive of injury, one of them I rber is spinal cord injury.
*
They also says not so many, so I wan to know why are you so sure have 60? hmm.gif

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