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> Proposed KL-Singapore bullet train maybe part of, national public transport plan (News)

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Kampung2005
post Dec 14 2010, 10:52 AM, updated 10y ago

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Source : http://www.btimes.com.my/Current_News/BTIM...RANS13/Article/

QUOTE

The proposed high-speed rail linking Kuala Lumpur and Singapore may be included in the national public transport master plan

THE proposed Kuala Lumpur-Singapore high-speed train project, costing between RM10 billion and RM12 billion, may be included in the national public transport master plan, said the chief of The Land Public Transport Commission (Spad).


Spad chief executive officer Mohd Nur Ismal Kamal said a feasibility study is being undertaken to examine viability of the project.

"The project may be considered in the master plan but we are not sure yet. The study will show how the high-speed train can be integrated with other public land transport," he said on the sidelines of the National Summit on Urban Public Transport 2010 in Kuala Lumpur yesterday.

Malaysia is mulling over a high-speed rail linking Kuala Lumpur and Singapore that will cut travel time between the two cities to 45 minutes.

A few companies, including YTL Corp Bhd and Hartasuma Sdn Bhd have made presentations to the National Key Economic Area (NKEA) lab on the project, involving a distance of about 300km.

Spad chairman Tan Sri Syed Hamid Albar said the configuration of the high-speed rail would need to be looked into in detail before the project can be considered.

Spad, set up in June this year to regulate the land public transport sector, is drawing up a 20-year master plan to ensure the holistic development of public transport in the country.

The master plan will look into all aspects of public transport, including connectivity and accessibility, ensuring the development of a more integrated public transport system.

It will start with the Greater Klang Valley providing connectivity between buses, taxis, the light rail transit (LRT) system, the express rail link (ERL), monorail and the mass rapid transit (MRT) system.

Syed Hamid told reporters that the backbone of public transport will be urban rail, led by the RM40 billion MRT system.

"The MRT is going to be important. Most important is the route alignment to integrate public transport. Mobility and commercial areas need to be looked at for the routing," he said.

Syed Hamid said Spad is already engaging with the public, non-government organisations and public transport operators on feedback to draw up the master plan and submit to the government by September next year.

The government is targeting 25 per cent of the population in Greater Klang Valley to use public transport by 2012, and 30 per cent by 2015, from 12 per cent now.

lordzarx
post Dec 14 2010, 10:54 AM

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The bullet train should be from Singapore up until Thailand...much better...
Kampung2005
post Dec 14 2010, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(lordzarx @ Dec 14 2010, 10:54 AM)
The bullet train should be from Singapore up until Thailand...much better...
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If you go to the ETP exhibition, the proposed high speed line may connect to the proposed Thai high speed rail line.

In the case of Thailand, Bangkok-Padang Besar.
isma45
post Dec 14 2010, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(lordzarx @ Dec 14 2010, 10:54 AM)
The bullet train should be from Singapore up until Thailand...much better...
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agreed
Kampung2005
post Dec 14 2010, 10:59 AM

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user posted image
user posted image
DefxZ
post Dec 14 2010, 10:59 AM

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KL- russia
theeagles
post Dec 14 2010, 11:01 AM

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so this project will be given to bijan's cronies.
eXTaTine
post Dec 14 2010, 11:05 AM

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This project is a huge waste of money....the economics doesn't add up....RM12 billion? How much do you need to charge to recover the cost of the construction? And what about the operational cost? Even if you charge RM200 per ticket...you can't recover the cost...

Other countries can build a high speed train as the population has the critical mass, unlike Malaysia...and we already have invested in budget airlines for these, why build this high-cost rail link that burdens the taxpayer?
Kampung2005
post Dec 14 2010, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(eXTaTine @ Dec 14 2010, 11:05 AM)
This project is a huge waste of money....the economics doesn't add up....RM12 billion? How much do you need to charge to recover the cost of the construction? And what about the operational cost? Even if you charge RM200 per ticket...you can't recover the cost...

Other countries can build a high speed train as the population has the critical mass, unlike Malaysia...and we already have invested in budget airlines for these, why build this high-cost rail link that burdens the taxpayer?
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How sure are you?

Morocco is going to build high speed rail line based from French TGV and their population is fewer than us. They expect the annual ridership to increase to 10 million per year.

In the case of KL-Singapore, the route has one of the busiest air corridor in ASEAN. Normally, areas with busy air corridors are ripe for the construction of HSR, for example Taipei-Kaohsiung, Seoul-Busan and in the case of Hainan island, which has fewer population, they also have high speed rail.

Malaysia (as in government) did not invest in budget airlines. Malaysian government invests in airports while private companies buy the planes. This model is just like in the US.

In 2009, according to MOT, the air traffic between KL-SG alone was 2.485 million passengers.

Convenience wise, HSR is more convenient than planes.

Flights are restricted to the number of runways and obviously air traffic. HSR can operate up to 10 trains per hour.

Travel is easier because stations are usually located in the city, as opposed to airports outside of the city.

Door-to-door, HSR is faster than flights.

This post has been edited by Kampung2005: Dec 14 2010, 11:14 AM
elmodistortion
post Dec 14 2010, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(eXTaTine @ Dec 14 2010, 11:05 AM)
This project is a huge waste of money....the economics doesn't add up....RM12 billion? How much do you need to charge to recover the cost of the construction? And what about the operational cost? Even if you charge RM200 per ticket...you can't recover the cost...

Other countries can build a high speed train as the population has the critical mass, unlike Malaysia...and we already have invested in budget airlines for these, why build this high-cost rail link that burdens the taxpayer?
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hi..

ur brain so sempit...

u seems like thos people that disagreed with KLCC 10 years ago..

this train plan will attract lot of things especiall singapore tourist might want come to KL just for 2-3 hours maybe..
eXTaTine
post Dec 14 2010, 11:37 AM

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Please look at the ridership figures for Taipei-Kaohsiung

Annual traffic figures Year 2007 2008 2009 2010
(Jan-Nov)
Ridership[94][95] 15,555,656 30,581,261 32,349,260 33,586,475
Seat occupancy[96][97] 44.72% 43.51% 46.31%
Punctuality (5 minute)[95] 99.47% 99.19% 99.25%


Korail KTX (in Korea)

Forecast
made in… KTX opening year ridership
forecast in passengers/day[87]
Gyeongbu Honam Total
1991 196,402 - 196,402
1995 190,203 - 190,203
Dec 1998
Nov 1999 141,497

22,818 164,315
Aug 2003 115,828 36,085 151,913


Japan

Line Start End Length Operator Opened Annual Passengers[12]
Tōkaidō Shinkansen Tokyo Shin-Osaka 515.4 km JR Central 1964 151,320,000
Sanyō Shinkansen Shin-Osaka Hakata 553.7 km JR West 1972 63,432,000



Korea and Taiwan have ridership of over 30mil annually, contrast that to the current traffic in KL-SG, which according to Kampung2005 is 2.485 mil. That is less than 10% of the traffic of Taiwan or Korea! Even if ridership were to double, to 5mil....its still underutilized and will incur huge losses. In case you don't know....Korea's KTX is still suffering huge losses to this day. I feel the same way as you, I like the idea of high-speed rail but I know we do not have the critical mass for it. Maybe in 10-20 years time maybe but not now.

This post has been edited by eXTaTine: Dec 14 2010, 11:39 AM
Kampung2005
post Dec 14 2010, 11:52 AM

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QUOTE(eXTaTine @ Dec 14 2010, 11:37 AM)
Korea and Taiwan have ridership of over 30mil annually, contrast that to the current traffic in KL-SG, which according to Kampung2005 is 2.485 mil. That is less than 10% of the traffic of Taiwan or Korea! Even if ridership were to double, to 5mil....its still underutilized and will incur huge losses. In case you don't know....Korea's KTX is still suffering huge losses to this day. I feel the same way as you, I like the idea of high-speed rail but I know we do not have the critical mass for it. Maybe in 10-20 years time maybe but not now.
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I respect your opinion and i accept your opinion. However, this is my opinion as well. smile.gif

Don't forget that the startup cost of Taiwan and Japan is much higher than the one proposed in Malaysia.

Lets see this case.

Taiwan HSR costs around USD 18 billion, but the fare is around RM 1xx for Taipei-Kaohsiung.

Suppose the fare is around RM 1xx for KL-Singapore as well, but proposed cost is much lower than THSR, than it would be feasible.

The 2.485 million passengers figure, is only for air travel. It does not include road travel. Furthermore, the proposed line will also serve Malacca, Johor apart from KL and Singapore. Add to that, Thailand is planning Bangkok-Padang Besar high speed line as well. If Malaysia HSR line connected to Thai HSR, there is a synergy and benefit to it. Ridership is one thing, but you also need to look at the cost as well.

THSR is expensive due to the fact that much of the line sections were composed of viaducts and tunnels. They also have a mix of technologies such as European standard infrastructure + Japanese trains. That already caused cost overruns.

The proposed KL-SG HSR costs RM 12 billion.

Morocco has even fewer population, and lower population density than Malaysia, but they build it, why not us?

China is planning to talk to Thailand and Laos on high speed rail. If we do not build the line, we will going to miss it!

Population wise, look at this.

Malaysia - Singapore

Klang Valley : 6 million

Seremban : 400,000 plus

Malacca: around 700,000

Muar, Johor : 400,000 plus

Batu Pahat : 400,000 plus

JB : 1.8 million for metro area

Singapore : 5 million

Total : 14.7 million (approximate), with distance of roughly 300-something kilometres.

Morocco (Tangier - Casablanca)

Tangier : 700,000

Kenitra : around 350,000

Casablanca : 3,300,000

This post has been edited by Kampung2005: Dec 14 2010, 12:11 PM

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