i spoke with a friend about Xabi Alonso days in liverpool and he insisting that Xabi is a defensive midfielder.

i told him that Xabi is actually a holding midfielder but he said "both are similar".are you guy agree with the statement.

for me,a "H-type" midfielder is a midfielder that "hold" the ball while the rest of the team positioning/repositioning themselves while "D-type" midfielder is in essence is a CB playing midfield

example of H-type midfielder
-Xabi Alonso
-Gareth Barry
-Lucas Leiva

example of D-type midfielder
-Jave Mascherano
-De Jong
-Mark Van Bommel


............

discuss

hhmm...i try searching google, and apparently it is the same thing, just different name! maybe there are 2 types of DM/HM, for example differentiated into deep lying playmaker (which is the one holding the ball and initiate the attack a.k.a. Xabi, makelele etc) and the Anchorman role, which is more of a frontal CB (de Jong).

Defensive mid fielders are midfielder that has good defending attributes. Their strength is in defending. their job is to protect the two centre backs behind. You can't allow the opponent to run straight at your defense line .


Holding midfield play the same position with defending midfield but their strength is not in defending, but in distributing the ball.

these sort of midfielders have good passing , vision and ball control...

like Xabi Alonso, he isnt even good in tackling, marking, heading...etc and his physical is too weak for a proper challenge.

but what he does is he controls the tempo, switch ball to another flank, feed the ball to the attacking players. They connect the right , left, centre attacking midfielders together.

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Added on December 12, 2010, 10:08 pmbtw Rafa sucks, he knows Liverpool can't survive without Xabi, after he sold Xabi over personal grunges, he quickly cabut. See now Liverpool without Alonso.....

Real Madrid PROFIT!

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Added on December 12, 2010, 10:15 pmbtw i thought this sort of threads are not allowed ???

This post has been edited by FLampard: Dec 12 2010, 10:15 PM

FLampard, is alonso choose to leave liverpool for real.

club nowadays will powerless if player tender transfer request ...

either you sell him immediately or you lose him for nothing.

even though alonso didn't have a physical strength to defence, he usually win ball by one-one on situation, standing tackle if you what i mean.

Hi,

I'm simply agreed with you. Those Holding & Defensive midfielder is just in a same position but doing different role. It's all depending on the manager and their team tactical itself.

holding type midfielder ... ain't that the deep lying playmaker ...
it's interesting that playmakers keep getting pushed deeper and deeper nowadays ... it is a good thing though ... the deeper the playmaker is, the more of the field he'll see ...
when the playmaker is right behind the forward, the options gets limited ... becomes predictable ...

defensive midfielder ... the 'makelele position' ... nobody seems to call that position by that name anymore ...

funny thing is as playmakers move deeper, pure defensive DM die out ... they rose to prominence when attacking midfield playmakers were common ... something like you field a AM, i field a DM to stop you ...


safer and less prone to get those yellows ... with good positional sense, the player can intercept the ball as well

This post has been edited by spursfan: Dec 13 2010, 09:21 AM

Xabi Alonso is Deep Lying Playmaker
which totally difference with Def Mid even starting position
his position similar with Andrea Pirlo ,Xavi and maybe Carrick and Pedro Mendes

of course Pirlo , Xavi and Xabi Alonso are most the best on playing this role

They are essentially one and the same thing. The term 'holding' in holding midfielder refers to the holding of position not holding the ball. And that's what all DMs do anyway: hold their position.

That also means Xabi is also a DM of sorts but I feel ppl pay too much attention to the names of positions when it's really not that important. That said Xabi's defensive abilities are underrated. He reads the game impeccably and is an acccomplished tackler. The reason he doesnt look like it is because he's quite immobile so his defensive game is based more on intercepting than aggressive hustling. If he was born faster he could anchor a midfield all by himself

i think defensive midfielder and holding midfielder are the same. They functions as stopper in front of the defense, to cover the holes when the defense are stretched, to check the run on attacking midfielders from midfielder, to take out the opponents creative outlet, and be an outlet to bring the ball out of defense..

a good DMF reads the opponents very well and always funnel the opponent attack towards him..

its very important that a DMF don't get caught out of position so most of the time when the ball have be taken out of defense, he will make a non-risk pass to attacking players who will do more adventurous things with the DMF covering their back..

legend in this position is Claude Makelele..

dont confuse this with deep lying playmaker. This type of player normally very confident with his kicking technique and intentionally sit deep to have better vision on the field and can have more time with the ball to create plays. Position higher up on the field are more congested where he will be denied the time and space to keep his heads up and find that inch perfect pass.
These type of players covers very little space as compare to defensive midfielder because his job is to be at the most optimum position to create plays when he receive the ball from DMF.

defensively these type of players are very fragile and need to be paired with aggressive ball retriever to pass the ball to him. At the height of his game, Pirlo were flanked with Seedorf and Gattuso which covers him a lot and keep the balance in Milan's midfield.

Another player famous for this job is Xabi Alonso.

As these type of players sit very deep, their job is to start attacks and not to involve in the thick of it.

their position always be confused with another type of play-maker, ..the 'passing midfielder type'. These type of play-maker involves in the play a lot. The don't need as much time with the ball as deep laying play-makers do as their style of dictating play is more impulsive and depend on sudden change of simple play to capitalize on openings.

they basically just receive the ball and pass it again while keeping and eye of any openings. these never endless string of simple pass will in time make the opponent less focus on their own game plan and openings will happen..

famous players in this position is Xavi Hernandes, Andreas Iniesta and Cesc Fabregas.

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Dec 13 2010, 11:44 AM

Need to digress. I agree with Verx. Xabi's defensive ability is severly underrated, just as Didi Hamann's was when he was at Liverpool. Stereotypes expect to see defensive players sliding into crunching tackles or running the width of the field to provide cover. In his first season, Alonso at one point, led the league in tackles and had the highest interception rate. Plus he's from Basque and by virtue of that, isn't a pansy. Just thought of clearing up this misconception.

As for the question, I can see why both are the same. A person playing as a defensive mid sits just in front of the defence. Holding the ball is but a function. Lone forwards often hold the ball up but we don't call them 'holding forwards'.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Dec 13 2010, 11:43 AM

Both refers to the same position made different only by the players filling them.

It's like right winger. That role is going to be different if I play David Beckham compared to if I play Aaron Lennon. It doesn't change the name of the position and I wouldn't go renaming it Crossing Winger and Dribbling Winger. What you have is a description of how the position is interpreted by the player filling it.

The Zonal Marking website has a treasure-trove of articles on all things tactical, including discussions on DMs. It's in there somewhere, but here's a close one which I found.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/05/04/how...ing-midfielder/

@aressandro: i'd call them creative middy rather than passing middy


that's like calling pedro a winger coz he starts in front of daniel alves

This post has been edited by spursfan: Dec 13 2010, 08:17 PM

i would stick to 'passing midfielder' name because primarily that is what they do. Their main function is not to do creative passes first but to offer themselves as option for passes and in turn pass it to another option. Their passes usually goes sideways than forward like lubricants in the engine to maintain the smooth momentum of the play.

the key of their play is to always maintain 2 option on what to do with the ball at all time and disciplined to pass the ball before the 2 option are closed down. To do creative passes would be the 3rd option.

saying that, player with the technique and vision of Xavi Hernandes do reach the third option level more than most...

before the days of xavi and fabregas, these type of midfielders are very tricky to put into most conservative managers formation. The always want a definitive defensive midfielder or attacking midfielder. Now the game is changing and all attacking midfielders are pushed up front or out wide and their place is filled with passing midfielders.

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Dec 14 2010, 09:25 AM

Isn't this the basic requirement for all standard midfielders? Pass the ball?
Is football getting a little too over-interpreted when we start having too many sub-categories?

are you implying that all midfielders are the same and sub-categories are mere illusions?

Not at all.
I meant once upon a time midfielders were expected to pass the ball, tackle, hold up play, speed up play, intercept, etc. Some passed better than others, some tackled better. So I'm wondering in this age whether we are overanalyzing a bit in categorizing midfielders in which aspect they do better in?

football have become more athletic since the old days. Gap to differentiate between winners and loser are thinning. Every stone must not be left unturned. Under-analysed at the manager's own peril..

BTW... i dont think our level of discussion is over-analysing.. its there in plain sight...

This post has been edited by aressandro10: Dec 14 2010, 12:17 PM

This is what i know about midfield from WE, attacking midfield, center midfield, side midfield and defensive midfield.