Hi,

I stumbled across this site selling above populated PCB for DIY dac : http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx

and decided to try it out. So I purchased it (Buffalo II dac + Placid PS + Legato I/V Stage & Bal>SE ) and am waiting for its arrival in Jan 2011. All I need now is a PS transformer and casing to complete the dac. Specs seem outstanding for ESS Sabre32 (ES9018) & its processing power can easily keep up with 24bit/192kHz files & this chip which is also used in commercial Wyred4sound dac1 & 2 & some other high end dacs like McIntosh. The demand was outstripping production and each batch was sold out within minutes of opening but I managed to grab one. Wonder about its SQ & how it compares with NOS dacs, although reviews so far so good. The ESS Sabre chip makers also produce Evaluation boards (EV) for DIY and manufacturers to test out the chips.

I have been using for quite a while the Promitheus DAC (non oversampling) with transformer outputs but the receiver chip (CS8414?) kept blowing, gave up and switched to Monica 3 (another local hifi entrepreneur) both using TDA1545A chip - a chip developed many years ago, so I thought jumping to the 'latest' technology chip would be refreshing. Anyone has experience with Sabre32 chips or got Buffalo II dac or has experience with DACs with ESS Sabre chips care to comment on its SQ? I know its subjective from person to person.

Thanks

This post has been edited by Dexsam: Dec 6 2010, 08:26 AM

Interesting DAC with a pretty good price for a reason!
Some maybe uncomfortable with the fair amount of usage of SMDs.. I have mixed feelings about it but heck, if it sounds good, why not!

May be next year (January?) we'll do a tt session specifically for DACs.. we have sufficient numbers here...

Keep us posted.

I was already eyeing buffalo 2 for more than 1 year already, but
still, i don't have enough fund for it

As long as it's high quality and awesome performer, who care how
subjective of it when happen to those human with stupid ears and stupid emotion
biased and giving stupid comments?

This post has been edited by chchyong89: Dec 6 2010, 09:23 AM

walao.. when see people getting very high end DAC, could imagine their system may be 10 times the cost of the DAC. Hehe, roughly know your system will be more than 10k.
Ok it's just my own stupid hypothesis. But of course you at least need a 10K system to enjoy 1K/2K DAC .

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Added on December 6, 2010, 5:18 pmJazzy, will let you know when the pcbs arrived and completed the whole dac for your 'evaluation'. On SMT, (I assumed you meant "surface mount technology") i think the trend is now towards that!! "Through-hole" pcbs are becoming a thing of the past, believe it or not, there are many advantages on going SMT, including sonically. And, like it or not, the manufacturers all go towards that direction and even high end solid state phono preamps, the components getting smaller and lower power, paths shorter, except of course those using tubes. Just open up the latest 2010 models of most electronics (low power sections, especially digital section) - are all SMT, unless in cases where the large power or values require big components. I had trouble removing/replacing the CS8414 (SMT) the pins are microns apart that I have to give up soldering. And that leaves DIYers with nothing much left to do except power supplies and hooking up the boards to inputs/outputs. Just my 2 sens.

This post has been edited by Dexsam: Dec 6 2010, 05:21 PM

how much is that unit?

Click on the link in the first post. You'll know!

me too.....

I beg to differ, for me smc is not best solution for my ear.

I remembered what some of us did on the TA-2024 module. We replaced those SMT components with HQ components and the sound did really improved..
Those SMT parts may have been improved quality wise, looks like we have to review it, won't we..?

This post has been edited by jazzy939: Dec 6 2010, 09:51 PM

Jazzy, the ta2024 surgery is a crazy experiment with smc removal and replace with discrete components.

througholes are generally superior to SMDs when it comes to resistors. This has to do with the linearity at a specific temperature range. (temp co)

However, with the technology we have today, it's not hard to get high plus superior resistors in SMD.

The question is however, whether the resistors used are premium OR something relatively cheap, because SMDs will always be more expensive than through hole parts.

Certainly it was! It paid off anyway!

i heard someone claims smd components is step further better than through holes due to small micro size & ability to rejecting noise and heat....


the Buffalo is a very well regarded dac by everyone who have experienced it. very positive review by everyone....google it...

Ya, it got a lot of good reviews. ESSTECH EEs9018 is a rare chip as compare to cirrus, AD, texas instrument and Philips, I can't even find in it eBay.

Thats what they said about semiconductors.. transistors that are far superior and supposedly to replace them tubes... we know what's happening now.. we're back to tubes! well some of us anyway..

Yes, imho I think it also depends on usage, and the correct component (type) selection for optimal SMT performance, we are talking about very low power, very high freq digital signals, where SMT wins; for high power, PSU and for audio signal coupling capacitors where large sized components are necessary and SMT can't be used or loses. For low power analogue signals imho there are pros and cons for capacitors and resistors, but for semiconductors mostly SMT better, again imho. Most ICs are now SMT and through-hole DIP types are getting rarer nowadays. ESS recommendations : http://www.esstech.com/PDF/Application_Not..._PCB_Layout.pdf

The ES9018 dac chip alone is costly at USD65.50 and their Evaluation board (w/PS) for the older ES9008 is over USD500, http://ecommerce.ismosys.com/ordering/inde...facturers_id=34 ;so I guess the Buffalo II DAC completed PCB board with all components (w/o PS) selling at USD250 http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx ; was worthy and those guys are not making huge profits, so I decided to try it out. Eagerly waiting for it to arrive.

9018 is NDA.

Non disclosure.

moreover if you take a peek a look at most commercial amps like Naim....full with smds....

Dexsam you spends a fortune here, when can we expect to hear this thing in action...?

Yes, especially latest DACs in the market for eg: Wyred4sound, Weiss etc.

Gabanyayaya, no lah, paid around RM1k for it, donno whether it works as said or not. Anyway I paid around RM1600 for the local Promitheus Audio DAC (below), spent for upgrades on Bursons (RM200) discrete Op Amps and added PSU separate digital/analogue PSU(you see 2 transformers on the left, the other 2 trans are output trans) it was good sounding (imho) and then the thing went kaput due to failed CS8414 receiver chip (SMT) changed it once, fail again - gave up, the traces deteriorating so bad that manual soldering becomes impossible - need to replace the whole PCB. So, I migrated to Monica 3 (another local) - RM1000? forgot the price. Frankly, I imho these local DIY dacs (with my vintage Teac VRDS10 as transport) sounded better than my Marantz SA11S1 which was "soft" in comparison, and I promptly sold the Marantz (for RM4k) before it gets 'old'. Anyone interested in the Bursons (I got 4, no use anymore) to replace their IC (single not dual)Op Amps in your dac or Cd player(eg. NE5532)?

But they were all NOS dac using the "ancient" TDA1545A chip, and with PC based media files of 24bit-96k/192kHz coming into the picture, I thought better to 'let go' the 1545 and use new tech. Afterall I just need to put the "Buffalo" into the nice wooden case and use its old PSU & etc. Hope to receive the PCB by end Jan 2011 and put into action by CNY Cheers.


This post has been edited by Dexsam: Dec 7 2010, 12:37 PM

hmmm i'm interested with the wooden case....got spare?

Dexsam, very neat layout of the DAC there. Keep us posted on the Buffalo ii DAC, the more I google, the more tempting it is. Pity I just got my PCM1798 DAC board, else would have gone for this if I know it earlier. It is NDA secret DAC chip some more like littleghost said.

One user review, poisonous!:

"Sound so far (after 30 minutes of listening) has two main characteristics - much better defined bass and very very high precision (imaging and sound stage are awesome)."

as long as there's a key word of 'bass' you definitely make jazzy orgasm...

Well you know me... but bass isn't everything lah.. the whole aspects of music are equally important.. PRaT to me is important!

Got only one old Promitheus Audio DAC, yes i like it too - the wood is supposed to be Merbau according to Nicholas Chua, maybe you can contact him to check the price if he has unused boxes to spare; I have seen many units at his place (he contracts to local contractor). The top and bottom is now stainless steel flat plates (mine was earlier version with black painted). The picture gives you the relative size of the box.





KWW: you must be pulling my leg ! ; the layout of my dac wasn't neat lah, and currently with the Monica 3 inside, its even worse, hahaha. You can compare the original which was clean and uncluttered with my modified one you can see how bad it was, but never mind lah. Hopefully with the Buffalo II, I think i can do better, neatly arranged

Dexsam, I think your layout is neat. Mine is like spider web and use only 1 type color cable.

if it's a merbau wood then the box must be cost more than my dac it self....

gabanyayaya,
I thought you have found a carpenter for your woodworking needs?

OMG, in that case then I was taken for a ride, but their website clearly stated it was Merbau know little about wood .... ok, nevermind about the wood I just take care of the electronics that go in, even if some claim the wood affect the sound . But seriously, the size suitable for your use?

To add more poison for some of you guys - the inside pictures (from net) commercial dacs using ES9018 from Wyred4sound DAC2 (RM6k?) and Weiss DAC202 (RM20k+?) looks more like an expensive computer than audio device; with more features than you'll ever need and they have nice displays of bit rate/freq - tempting but way too expensive for me lah, no choice kena DIY.

carpenter too LCLY for my job...

A new cdp, well reviewed, using ES9018(maybe), latest Audiolab CD player:

http://www.audiolab.co.uk/ProductDetail.as...=En&Tab2=8200CD

wonder it has reached local dealers?

This post has been edited by Dexsam: Dec 10 2010, 06:23 AM

How much would that sell for?

The Audiolab 8200CD is listed GBP700 in UK, probably over RM4k here, no idea really .....

So far, the new dacs using ESS Sabre dac chip that I know of:-
1) Eastern Electric DAC001, minimax DAC,
2) AudioGD - NFB-1
3) Moon Evolution 750D
4) Wyred4sound DAC1 & DAC2
5) Antelope Zodiac
6) Weiss DAC202
Probably many other manufacturers are still testing theirs now but yet to launch...

CD/SACD players/others:-
1) Oppo BDP-83SE (special edition only)
2) Audiolab 8200CD
3) McIntosh MCD500
4) Peachtree Audio Nova (amp)

Besides buying the Buffallo II pcb, anyone know of other ways to DIY a DAC using the ES9018 chip? Thanks

ESS don't sell single unit of ES9018...

For those interested in trying out the ES9018 dac chip, the next batch of DIY Buffalo II DAC board is going to open for booking at 9:00pm sharp tonite, Malaysian time : http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/digital/buffalo.aspx

Anyone here knows how to DIY a LCD display of sampling rate?

This post has been edited by Dexsam: Dec 18 2010, 07:46 AM

Are u sure zodiac is using ESS9018 ? I thot it is a single PCM179X.

audio-gd has various NFB that uses ESS9018. I have heard it before, someone in malaysia owns it. [it is similar to ref 5, using its casing]

I think you are right - Antelope zodiac uses Burr Brown PCM1792A according to some forums.

why is it we need to go to a specific time to book this dac at twisted pair audio....is it because this dac is selling like hot cakes....!!!! no wonders explains why the always have no stock around...

Dexsam

if you look carefully a nice diy display module can be made using Adruino board with this particular dac. I'm guessing you have found the website for this mod but need some programing expertise to initiate....well looks like you have to keep diggin' ...

Dexsam, by the time I visit the site is already sold out, that is really fast.

Yeah, you have to logon the site BEFORE 9.00pm sharp (Msian time) and let the clock countdown to zero, and then click 'add to cart' immediately - that's what I did the last time and I got mine on 4th Dec shipping out on 16th Jan. By 9:03pm it was SOLD OUT. I don't really know whats the qty those guys make per batch, but i think its rather small, i once posted on forum asking Russ White abt the qty and why not make more, but got no answers.

Gabanyayaya:

Yes, i found the Arduino thingy but too complicated and sorry don't know how to program the PIC lah... and then also found also this :
http://www.tauntek.com/DigAudMon-low-cost-...dio-monitor.htm
wonder anyone got more ideas/suggestions?

what do you think of it? I only want the LCD display part minus the LED level indicators. Any of you guys out that DIY this before? Wait till I put on a white LCD panel with blue characters, incorporating into my "merbau" wooden box with the Buffalo II dac inside and M2Tech hiface USB streaming in 24/192kHz should be stunning one of a kind DAC......... just imagining lah. So i just want to see that when playing CD its 44.1, media 96kHz... and so on.

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Added on January 1, 2011, 1:57 pmThanks to Gabanyayaya advice on how to display the sampling rate of DAC, I ordered the Arduino UNO micro controller board locally, and purchased a 20x4 LCD display from eBay, then downloaded the program from HIFIDUINO :
http://hifiduino.wordpress.com/ , then uploaded the program into the UNO controller, and the LCD panel arrived, connected up everything and bingo it(display) was running well without any input. Before that, I was cracking my head on how to show the 'sampling rate' for a DAC, and now the display is already up and running (thanks to other DIYers and sifu's programming work) while the Buffalo II is yet to ship out to me on 16 Jan 2011!

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Added on January 2, 2011, 8:26 amGabanyayaya:

I did what you advised and DIYed this nice LCD display while waiting for the Buffalo DAC - problem, now how to cut the rectangular hole on the wooden box : the actual picture of my display components when powered up below.

The "SR" represents the "sampling rate" is zero (no digital input yet), "Fi" is the filter type, "Jt" is the jitter reduction, and "PL" ?(not locked). The pot is to adjust contrast. Next, to add the rotary encoder for digital volume control and this thingy even got IR remote control function.

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Added on January 27, 2011, 8:10 amHi all,

Just received the package from Twisted Pear USA :

1) the Buffalo II DAC board with Sabre ESS9018 chip , latest version with Crystek 100MHz clock,
2) Legato I/V board and components,
3) Power supply regulator board and components.

Only the DAC board is assembled/soldered and tested, the rest come in loose components. Going to be busy DIYing the DAC, connect everything up.






This post has been edited by Dexsam: Jan 27 2011, 08:10 AM