Depends which part of BTA you are in though. If its the CA team, you will be offsite visiting buildings on a project-to-project basis. If you are in Transaction Tax, you might be out on due diligence reviews quite regularly, again depending on project frequency.

But if you are in ITS or Amarjit's team then you may not be going out of the office too often.

With all due respect, a 1st class degree doesn't guarantee you a job. The accounting firms use academics as a cut-off criterion. After that, whether you get hired depends on how well you talk, how well you present yourself, and how well you know your stuff off the paper. It also matters a great deal whether you were active in sports and extra-curricular activities.

Your assumption that 'they did ok in the interview' based on their acedemic qualifications is a little misguided. I'm not saying they didn't do ok, I am saying that other people probably did better. Based on my experience as a hiring manager, academic performence is no guarantee that the hiree will do well in the interview. Your qualifications alone are not enough to win you the job when compared to people who excelled in other areas in addition to academics.

Rather than bemoan the rejection, it would be better to call up the HR and find out why you didn't make the cut so that you can improve in the next interview.

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Jan 27 2011, 10:43 AM

My apologies if my post implied expectation, its a little hard to convey tone online. No offence was intended.

Sorry to hear that you didn't get called up. I can't hope to explain why you were not selected, perhaps they had their reasons or they just didn't have anymore vacancies at the moment. From what I know of the industry, the large amount of vacancies are currently at the senior and manager level, not so much the freshie level.

On the plus side, there are 3 other firms to go to. Good luck with the other applications.

All the best! AS is very knowledgeable and a good mentor. You can learn a lot from him. But just be prepared for short turnaround time projects and tight deadlines, which are the norm for advisory.

Generally, English and BM. Being able to speak other languages is a plus.

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Added on January 31, 2011, 9:32 amKnowing something is coming, and experiencing it are two different things. Everyone knows when they join audit/tax that the hours are long and the work is stressful. But until you actually go through it, you won't know whether you can take it.

Of course, personality and attitude play an important part, as well as the support of your seniors / managers

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Jan 31 2011, 09:32 AM

After 2 years, you will move from junior associate to senior associate. Your role will be to start guiding your juniors. Logically, you won't have the management experience to lead a whole department nor will you have the exposure to be able to pick up issues and see things from a more in depth angle. I feel its very unlikely anyone will pick a 2 year experience staff for a managerial position unless they are a relative =)

Depending on the size of your organisation, you can have several levels of management. FC is one of the top levels, you can also have middle management like finance managers, general managers, etc. Designations differ as well, but generally the role involves overseeing a team of people.

I would say the value comes with years of experience rather than the actual designations. I know some people who have left the firm as seniors or asst. managers for roles as managers in commercial companies. Generally if you have achieved the role of manager in the firm, it does lend more weight than leaving as a senior/AM.

It all boils down to how well you do what you do, and how well you sell yourself.

Audit firms may provide better pay than commercial when you are in senior / manager level. However, do bear in mind that the non-cash benefits from the audit firm are next to "nil". And what benefits they can offer are not particularly fantastic compared to some commercial companies. Also depends on your superiors and the firm's management.

Some people are more suited for the consulting line, some are not. Some need the non-cash benefits like full medical/hospitalisation, house/car loan subsidy, etc, some do not.

Personally, I joined the my firm 9 years ago with no plans to leave. But in the last 2 years of my time with the firm, I did not like the way things were run in the firm, and I got a much better offer, so I left. There is a saying "people don't quit their jobs, they quit their bosses". In my case, this is very true. I love what I do, but I hated the place and the people I had to work for. Whether this will be the same for you, time will tell.

As for working hours, I would say commercial has its ups and downs just like the firm. Depends a lot on the culture of the company you join.

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Feb 14 2011, 09:21 AM

I meant "consulting" as in audit or tax in general, i.e. non-commercial.

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Added on February 16, 2011, 9:09 amPartner's benefits are a moot point because they are the owners. Also they pump in capital into the business so they do have certain perks. I am not sure if you can still term them as "benefits" for partners given that they are effectively paying out of their own pockets

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Feb 16 2011, 09:09 AM

Heh, I share your pain Thanatos. Seems a lot of juniors these days need "extra" guidance. Even in commercial it can be a nightmare.

And to newbies, don't take it the wrong way. Yes, we are here to guide you on the job. But we also appreciate it when you exercise common sense and initiative in learning without being taught. It's a give and take thing.

I don't think I can stress this enough: You are out of school, the spoonfeeding stops.

We are here to correct your mistakes, not take you by the hand and guide you step-by-step. If you cannot/do not learn on your own, you are simply a burden to the senior.

What you can do to make everyone's life easier:-

1) Don't come to us with just a problem. Come with your problem, your background research, and what you think should be done. And we'll tell you whether you are on the right track. If you come to me with a problem without a solution, then you are also part of the problem.

2) If you don't understand, ask. And ask specific questions. Don't just say "I don't understand". Please explain to us WHAT you don't understand specifically so we don't have to recite the whole text book

3) There are a lot of learning resources in the Big 4. Please do your research and reference before you ask questions. There are no 'stupid' questions. Only lazy questions which irritate people during peak period when patience is very thin

4) If you are not sure whether what you have done/doing is right, please ask your superiors to make sure you are doing it right. "Get it right the first time". Having to amend is a waste of time if it could be prevented in the first place. Even if you are sure you are right, just confirm with your senior. Don't assume you are right just because you think so.


I'm not saying juniors are hopeless. Far from that, I like to believe you have potential. But it irks me tremendously when you treat us like your classroom teacher. You have your job, I have my job. My job includes guiding you, but not hand-holding you.

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Feb 21 2011, 11:35 AM

I think all professional service lines are like this. We all have long hours; doctors, lawyers, engineers, accountants, etc. It's all part and parcel of the service line.

Why do you get so much negative comments? I guess perhaps because its a service industry. You work with bosses that overwork/underhire. Your clients sometimes treat you like crap. As a senior your staff drive you nuts. As a staff your senior is a slavedriver lol.

Every job has its bad points and more often than not, one bad experience will stand out over 10 good experiences?

During my time with the audit firm, yes we work very very late. But sometimes it was a lot of fun because when we work late, people tend to let their hair down and have a bit more fun while they work. It depends very much on your team you work with.

You really can't prepare for it. But to get through it, two things are very important; the moral support from your family and friends, and your immediate senior's support. Often I find that those who give up will usually have naggy parents ("aiyoh ah girl, why you never come home dinner") and whiny gf/bf ("yerrrrrr you never spend time with me anymore"). When you have that combo, it doesn't help your stress level at all.

2) Yes, the accounting firms are competitive in terms of sports. If you have a good record of being active in atheletics, soccer, basketball, tennis, badminton, etc, it lends some weight. Also, depending on what you did for co-curicular activities, it could lend some weight as it would reflect your experiences in managing people and events. It's not a deal breaker, but it does help your application.

During my time, yes. Snooker, carrom, darts and netball too. But sometimes they drop events if there is a lack of participation

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Feb 22 2011, 02:42 PM

In EY, for tax department, it is not compulsory for you to have a professional paper. It is recommended that you do, but it is not a must. But if you opt for it, the firm will sponsor you in return for a bond.

As an intern you will not be subject to the same pressures and responsibility as a full time staff. If your intention is to "mentally and physically" prepare yourself, then it won't work. Bite the bullet and do it. If you are dead-set on doing an internship then do it during your semester break. You don't need an internship course to do internship. I did a 3-yr local degree with no internship course and I did my own internship every year-end semester break.

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Added on February 23, 2011, 9:28 amIf you are doing audit, you MAY be required to take up professional papers. It was compulsory during my time, but policies may have changed in the audit dept. Can't really say for sure.

It is advisable to start the paper as soon as possible to save time. If you think you don't have time now as a staff, you will have less time as a senior. In some firms, having a professional paper is contingent to your promotion as well. The practice differs from firm-to-firm.

My question to you is why are you not keen on taking a professional paper if its fully paid for? Are you not interested in improving yourself in terms of your profession of choice? Do you think it will be too difficult for you to manage?

Whether this will be detrimental to your chances in getting in, my point of view is yes, definitely. If, as a hirer, I had the choice between a candidate that wants to improve their own knowledge and qualifications vs someone who didn't, which candidate do you think I would hire?

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Feb 23 2011, 10:26 AM

Given that a huge majority of companies are March, June and December year-end, it stands to reason that there is minimal tax filing required in the one month you have been working. You would appreciate that by January, tax filing for June year-ends is already at its final stages, hence they would not allocate them to you to do halfway through. In other words, they can't give you work that isn't there at this point in time.

Tax work is cyclical so if you join at this time of the year, there isn't much to do until probably March (individual filing) and April (start of December corporate filing). This is the time of the year people are filing their March year-end initial estimates, and applying for set-offs for their December year-end instalment schemes, so letter writing is what we do now.

Form filling and letter writing is a major part of junior tax associate's work in any firm. If you think you are not doing useful work nor are you learning anything, I have bad news for you: it's all the same everywhere for fresh grads in tax.

If you like tax, hang in there and ride through July filing. And if you still feel you don't have work to do and want to leave the firm, then leave. But you have only been in there for one month and I think that one month is not a decent amount of time to judge whether you like your job.

Take it from me, enjoy the easy work for now and get used to the admin processes and stuff. Coz when the real work hits, its like a tidal wave and it never stops coming.

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Feb 24 2011, 11:06 AM

It makes a difference when you are manager level and above when client asks for the CV of the team members, and scrutinise the qualification of the team in addition to the firm. Not something that happens often, but when it does its usually key clients/appointments

I guess it boils down to your firm's integrity as well then. I can't speak for your firm, but when I worked in mine we did not put forward qualifications we did not have. At least not for the proposals I worked on.

When putting proposals together, its always nice to list a string of qualifications, because in Malaysia, all these titles carry weight, even if they don't outside.

You can talk to your AO about the daily tickets for the open air carpark next to MM. It's a fixed daily rate of RM9 per day but you need to buy 30 tix upfront. They have a 3 month validity period.

If you are coming from BU or DU or anywhere near Penchala Link, its faster than Sprint in the mornings.

oops, sry its 20, my bad.