Dolby vs DTS
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 Dec 2 2010, 03:34 PM
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#1
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5,989 posts Joined: Nov 2005 
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Technically both TrueHD and DTS HD MA should sound the same since both are lossless.
But really you guys can't use different movies or concerts to compare (because the mix can be diff). Only way to properly evaluate is if same movie contains both TrueHD and DTS HD MA and you play both to compare. |
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Dec 14 2010, 06:34 PM
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#2
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QUOTE(writesimply @ Dec 14 2010, 02:52 AM) It is a useful feature but the problem is the default setting - as I understand it - is always ON and it is embeded into the digital bitstream. You need a receiver that can turn off this feature when it is decoding it to be able to hear the master mix. So if you have a basic HTiB, you can't turn DialNorm off. Is there a way to turn off Dial Norm in the AVR? I noticed many titles will auto apply Dial Norm, but don't know if it is something that can be turned off or not. |
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Dec 16 2010, 08:47 PM
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#3
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QUOTE(writesimply @ Dec 15 2010, 02:02 AM) Dialnorm is a mandatory setting on Dolby Digital and perhaps Dolby TrueHD. You can't remove it. You can however set it correctly. Thanks for that explanation, it's one of the better ones out there and I think I'm beginning to get it about Dial Norm. DialNorm and volume attenuation are two separate settings. DiaNorm enables dialogue to be at a consistent level/volume so it can be understood better. Volume attenuation limits the dynamic range of a program. They are used together on Astro's broadcast on all channels. On DVDs/BDs, dynamic range limiter is never used either as a default setting on the decoder or as an embedded metadata. What lee_lnh was correctly explaining about DialNorm and what I fail to properly explain is this: 1) Dialog on the master stem (pre-encode) is ALWAYS around 400Hz to 4kHz frequency. 2) Dialog is leveled at -27dB. That's not subtracting 27dB. That's at level -27dB. 3) The dynamic range of digital sound for movies is 105dB. 0dB is the peak and is actually very loud, where it could be the sound of the thundering alien horn in Spielberg's War of The Worlds. So the dynamic range starts at -100dB and go all the way up to 5dB, where dialog is normally set at level -27dB. Back when Dolby created Dolby Digital, they envisioned that their codec will be used for HDTV (yes, it was back in the 90s). Back then, commercials and programs had limited dynamic range so the dialog in commercials always get close to 0dB, say like -4dB. This gives them more impact (loud) but not giving them enough latitude to get even louder, which is often used in movies. Because of these differences, Dolby basically decides that since the sound mixers in the movie industry always put dialog at -27dB, commercials must follow suit since they are not the main feature. Instead of pumping up the dialog in TV programs from -27dB to -4dB and have very little dynamic range at the top, the Dolby Digital codec will force the loud dialog in commercials down to level -27dB so that if you go from the movie to commercial to the movie again, you don't have to fiddle with the volume at all. So DialNorm became a mandatory metadata setting where dialog will always stay consistent at a set volume. DTS don't feel they should make their dialog normalization metadata a mandatory embedment because DTS assumes that sound mixers for movies and commercials would know how to mix their levels properly. So if the encoding engineers don't put it in the metadata or forget to do so, what encoding engineers put into the DTS encoder will come out exactly as the input. If there are errors, the error can be traced at the encoding stage. The problem with DialNorm as a mandatory setting is that if you want to tweak the setting, you can. The default setting on consumer DD decoder is at -31dB. So if the encoding engineer set it to -27, the 4dB difference means that the volume will be lowered by 4dB. If the engineer forget to reset the encoder from -20 to -31 for 10 movies, the result would mean the sound for all 10 of those movies will be lower by 11dB. Not only that, the DialNorm metadata can also be tweaked by broadcasters. So if the DD was encoded correctly but the broadcasters didn't know what they are doing and set one program at -25 while another at -27, the viewers will hear one program normally and the other too low.  QUOTE 3) The dynamic range of digital sound for movies is 105dB. 0dB is the peak and is actually very loud, where it could be the sound of the thundering alien horn in Spielberg's War of The Worlds. So the dynamic range starts at -100dB and go all the way up to 5dB, where dialog is normally set at level -27dB. So assuming the AVR is properly calibrated, when you set the master volume at 0dB the dialog would be around 78dB (105dB - 27dB) right? QUOTE The problem with DialNorm as a mandatory setting is that if you want to tweak the setting, you can. The default setting on consumer DD decoder is at -31dB. So if the encoding engineer set it to -27, the 4dB difference means that the volume will be lowered by 4dB. In many blu rays I notice the AVR applying a Dial Norm of +4dB. I always wondered why the number is 4dB so I think the above explains it. As you said, default is -31dB and standard dialog is leveled at -27, so Dial Norm must be +4 in order to bring it back to standard. Is that correct?Added on December 16, 2010, 8:51 pm QUOTE(specuvestor @ Dec 16 2010, 06:17 PM) There are some recent DVD with both. What about blu ray then? Specifically what about lossless HD for DTS and DD. Basically this thread is DTS vs DD and just want to know if you have any idea if there is a AQ difference between DTS and DD if using the same source for encoding so we know which one is more superior. I noticed Ip Man 2 has both True HD and DTS HD MA. But I haven't compared both yet. Maybe this weekend I'll do it.This post has been edited by jchong: Dec 16 2010, 08:51 PM |
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