So how do i get there and Is waterloo still the best uni offering this course? From what i heard,waterloo is ranked top because of the ex pres. Of SOA being the lecturer there.

Other question and answers posted are highly appreciated.


Cheers!




P.S. Am from M'sia and A-levels done locally would be prefered.

What if computer science is to be done first?Would it be a great advantage considering A-levels is taken because I'm not sure about my capabilities in Actuarial science?


This post has been edited by Imperfecion: Nov 14 2010, 04:46 PM

Not sure if you have gone through the few Actuarial Science threads in this forum. If you haven't, do it. They are very comprehensive although I am not sure if UWaterloo has been covered much.

UWaterloo is the university in Canada that provides comprehensive co-op programme. Co-op, unique to Canada education, allows you to alternates between studies and internships. For courses like Actuarial Science where experience is important, co-op helps a lot. That being said, the conventional way, study study study graduate and work, is still a good way as you get to graduate faster.

Somehow, I feel that you are just being blinded by the fact that you are able to get into course Z offered by uni Y for which uni Y is famous of course Z. But it doesn't make sense if you do not like course Z to begin with. For instance, studying Performing Music in Julliard - will you take it if you were given the chance.

Don't be blinded by that. Sit back and take a look, what do you really like? Is it Computer Science? (BTW, UWaterloo is quite famous for CS as well, so does their engineering. LOL)

It is possible to take an undergraduate degree in a quantitative subject (not usually comp sci) then enter Waterloo for their graduate Actuarial Science degree if you so wish. Their graduate degree offers exemptions for CT and CA papers from the UK's Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.

About their Bachelor's degree, while it does not offer exemptions from the UK board, you still would proceed as normal after finishing it, i.e. taking the one of the North American Board's exams and becoming an actuary. Exemptions would be on a subjective, case-review basis, rather than by predetermined standards as per their graduate programme and other degrees throughout the world.

Like others mentioned, you could enroll in the transfer programme. This may not involve A levels, and you start with a foundation followed by the degree, spending half the time or 1 year here and the remaining time in Waterloo. I am not sure about this, check with the school.

Or, you may take A level, and either finish at least AS and enter Waterloo for their undergrad degree, or do an undergrad degree anywhere and enter Waterloo for their grad degree.

Jack,you bet I've gone through those theads.Just unsure of my capabilities.LightningFist, score A5 for A-levels?5 ace you mean?Is that the minimum requirement?Having said,what subjects for A-levels then?I mean,comp science prior to degree programme to prepare me for the comp part.Not advisable?

Comp part is a smaller aspect of Actuarial Science, its fundamental concepts involve mathematics and statistics, with financial knowledge and economics. I am not suited to advise you on this. In any case, if you are really interested in Comp Sci you'd have to check your target schools individually to see if the graduate programmes accept a Comp Sci grad.

For A levels I meant AS (Advanced Subsidiary), not 5As. You can enter many universities in North America with AS, or even without AS, so long as you meet their SAT1/2 requirements. Not taking A level or taking only up to AS limits your options since most Australian/British/New Zealand/Singapore/Hong Kong/Ireland universities (and certainly all the good ones) require full A levels.

So, you can always continue to A2/A level if you want, or stay at AS. You may do a foundation instead with the "partner" school. You may choose not to do A level at all. But you need to choose your destination, or at least think about it. Exemptions matter little if you plan to qualify through the one of the American boards.

Subjects wise, in terms of A level (for UK + Ireland) the requirement is usually A/A* Mathematics, plus 2 other subjects at A level, and sometimes an AS level.

I'll give you an example, for the places I've applied to in the UK, the min requirements are A*AAa, A*AA, AAAa, and AAA. The lowest min req. for this subject I have seen is ABB, followed by AAB, and A*AB. These are somewhat of a joke (quite low for a highly competitive course) - but reqs are not the measure of a course's difficulty, prestige or value.

Australia or NZ would convert your results, but expect at least AAA minimum. I think SG/HK would need min AAA as well.

As for North America, check schools for their high school requirements.

Thanks,that has been very informative.
You seems to know a depth about actuarial science.What's your status?
Heard the drop out rate for said course is relatively high,do weaker students have to withdraw from the programme?As in since the admission requirements is high,do the students need to maintain their grades to enroll for the following semesters?
And is taking Ac. Sc. preferable to A-levels cause I'm afraid I'll not meet the requirements for the degree course.Thus wasting time and resource.

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Added on November 14, 2010, 7:09 pmBtw,Is A-levels and foundation comparable in terms of difficulty?Adding on,why is Ac. Sc. Only Offered as a major in Australia?Refer to university of Melbourne.That's the only Victorian uni i can find that offers Ac. Sc. .


This post has been edited by Imperfecion: Nov 14 2010, 07:09 PM

TS,

The biggest issue of becoming an actuary does not lie in your Bachelor degree. That is just like the foundation. What decides if you are successful lies on your life after graduation, where you are required to work while study to sit for the few professional papers.
If you cannot see this, or think about this, you could drop out even after your graduation.

Yes, drop out rate is high. In many cases more than 2/3 do not see it to the end, this is what I've heard. Of course there is no statistic for this, but passing rates of the exams are around 25%-50%.

I would not call A*AAa (the highest standard minimum offer I've seen) too high, especially since other A levels are much easier to do - and the fact that they do it in 2 years. The course certainly is challenging, if you stole a look at course content/materials.

But then again, Medicine is hard, Economics is extremely competitive as well, and Engineering is not easy either. We have to do something right, and to do that, we may have to pick tough subjects to do.

In most degrees if you do not pass, you cannot proceed. However there is an opportunity for a resit (usually once only), and you are expected to pass the resit (if it comes to that).

I'll assume you mean, is it more desirable to take Actuarial Sci foundation rather than A levels.

A levels means you can have a choice of where you want to go (of course, SATs for North America too) and what you want to study. It broadens your options. Actuarial Science foundation means you'd be restricted to very very few options, or just that single course you've entered.

But A levels is 1.5 years or less, plus results times are either Jan or Aug every year, so there may be waiting time. Foundation is typically 1 yr, and undergrad degree is 3/4 (depends on where).

You can take A levels now, decide what you want later on. With the right combo you can have your pick of subjects at tertiary level (subject to being given admission).

I'll finish A levels next Tuesday
I have applied to UK schools, I am/have considered Australia, will probably apply to Singapore, but I have discounted Ireland/Hong Kong/New Zealand for now. Not applying for USA until at least it's for graduate level - did not take SAT1/2s.

Thanks Jack.Noted.I wanna get a clear picture where I'm heading.I just wanna plan my steps well so i don't slip.And even if i do,I'll know where to land.Again,thanks for your concern.

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Added on November 14, 2010, 9:02 pmWhere are you doing your A levels and What subjects did you take?You're doing Ac. Sc. i presume?Finishing in 2 weeks time?Are your results out then or are you just about to sit for it? Which intake btw? I really hope you don't mind me asking so many questions.


This post has been edited by Imperfecion: Nov 14 2010, 09:13 PM

So you're not yet completely sure about Actuarial Science (like I was).

Not a problem. Take A levels (or IB, either Pre-U gives you the broadest choices later on) now.

In Malaysia you mainly choose between CIE (UCLES or Cambridge) or Edexcel (because we don't have AQA and OCR etc is for the UK, so forget about those).

Edexcel is modular, i.e. either 2 parts for AS and 2 parts for A2, or 3 for AS and 3 for A2. CIE is done in 2 sittings, first sitting AS, second sitting A2.

You'll need to pick 2 or 3 subjects in addition to Maths. You must achieve A/A* for Maths. Like I said, you'll need a minimum of AAB and that is really poor for an entry requirement - this is 2010/2011. One school has given A*A*A offers for Maths, so by the time you're ready who knows what it'll be. Right now A*AAa is the least you can do. I'm hoping for A*A*AA-A*A*A*A* (Thinking Skills/General Paper/Critical Thinking does not count as a standalone AS level).

I've been told Edexcel is easier, and this is the students' and teachers' impressions. But yeah, CIE is bloody hard, and getting harder each year, but I have not tried Edexcel yet.

As you know schools usually ask you to take 3/4 A levels - this is the minimum you need to enter university, that's why. Of course in the UK and elsewhere I have seen people take up to 5/6 A levels but those are rare and it is Hard to do in 15 months...

Halfway thru, or at the end, of A levels, you'll be able to choose. Medicine, Health Science, Biomed, Occupational Health? Actuarial Science, Mathematics, Economics, Accounting? Engineering, Comp Sci, IT, Physics? Law, Commerce, Finance?

Having said that course content is the same,why did you pick CIE?
Where did you do your A-levels btw, I'm in kuching atm. Not sure where to do A-levels.Tho i know taking a-levels is the same anywhere, i don't know where to start looking. I'll only have 2 weeks after my public exam to decide.Going for Jan intake cause i don't wanna waste a year or so waiting for the next uni sem. to start. A-levels done locally would require me to take up Moral and Malaysian studies.Would those be a burden?I don't quite understand the AS in a-levels part. Is it similar to a minor?If so what would be the typical pick?

Thinking Skills/General Paper/Critical Thinking does not count as a standalone AS level <~~ I'm all blank looking at this.

Scared i'm too gonna face this problem too.

This post has been edited by Imperfecion: Nov 16 2010, 02:23 PM

I picked CIE because I thought it'd be "better", not sure how... the decision was pretty twisted, I didn't think through my subject choices thoroughly, I was having exams too. If you ask anyone who's doing/who did CIE they would also question their own choices. I can tell you that at the time I did not favour the conditions of the schools (which were nearby) that had Edexcel - and I still don't. I did my A levels here in Kuala Lumpur.

Know that in Edexcel you get marks for each section/paper, which you do not necessarily have to disclose. However, some universities send out letters requesting for these (so that their decisions are more fair) and they can also conduct checks on their own. CIE gives a grade for AS or A level just like O levels/IGCSEs. Unusually for IGCSEs I have heard of people "getting to know" that they got 100 for a certain test etc.

Course content is not "the same", it is along the same lines. You may find material in an AQA paper relevant to Edexcel and/or CIE for science, and Critical Thinking and Thinking Skills across exam boards are broadly similar (in content), but they are not identical - you could argue (after trying the papers) that CIE is more difficult while Edexcel is more structured.

A levels is the same everywhere, correct - you cannot be certain of getting good teachers no matter where you are, and exam boards are not singled out (officially) - but then lot of things happen behind the scenes that we don't know of, for example in the UK it was previously admitted (by schools) that they compared secondary schools' results to gauge students.

Going for Jan is the right thing to do. Moral/Malaysian Studies is not really a burden, but a mental migraine because it is meaningless and involuntary.

AS = Advanced Subsidiary. It is a standalone qualification, and is the first half (50%) of your A level grade (if you complete the exams). For example, in Maths 2 papers are AS, 2 papers are A2 (the second half). My marks/grades from AS are 50%, those from A2 are 50%, they are averaged to get the A level grade. You can get AS grades alone, without taking A2, but you won't get A level grades, and you limit your options.

Capital letter (A) grades are for A levels, while small letter (a) grades are for AS levels.

Many people (in Malaysia and the UK) do Thinking Skills/Critical Thinking/General Studies, for reasons I cannot fathom, given that it does not heavily affect an application, and has no actual value in an offer/decision. Universities also explicitly say that they would only ever look at these subjects to AS level, which is why nobody ever does these up to A level (even though they exist). For example, here is a decision:

Conditional Offer
AAB to include A in Mathematics, plus a further AS level

This translates to AABa with Maths A, and of course it must be four subjects other than Thinking Skills/Critical Thinking/General Studies.

Do know that university entry requirements are increasing, back then many ABB/AABs were acceptable for even competitive universities, now most have upgraded to AAA or A*AA (reputable ones) and the minimum is AAB/AABB. I received a AABa offer, so hopefully this reflects on the quality of my application.

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Added on November 25, 2010, 12:18 pmWith regards to "that problem", the OP did not think things through. Someone who finished A levels should enroll in a programme meant for post-secondary/fresh undergraduate students.

In any case, it is possible to enter the University of Waterloo after A levels or even without A levels (for their undergrad of course).

For the school transfer thing these are very specific so they should be checked out first. There is no guarantee for transfer, and transfer limits your potential destinations.

Have you thought out where you would like to further your education post secondary school (SPM/A Levels)?

This post has been edited by LightningFist: Nov 25 2010, 12:18 PM

I'm still undecided.It has been mentioned that foundation prepares better for 1st year degree but it pigeonholes me to a specific field.I mean,there's no point taking subjects like chemistry if i know I'm doing commerce.Or similar,taking economics to do engineering later.Guess the best option is to follow the US education system which allows students to make a 180 degree turn conveniently?It's hard to decide.
Tell me,did you pick your course because you know you'd wake up everyday doing the kind of work

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Added on November 26, 2010, 6:06 pmyou like or did you make your pick based on the skills you would acquire?

E.g. Being an lawyer would enable you to know one's right better against being able to do the work that interests you such as translating affidavits and argueing in court?


P.s I'm thinking of HELP's co-op for actuarial science.That is however,still,in consideration.
It could even be A-levels at either KL or Singapore before transfer to overseas,preferably UWaterloo,if my academic results allows.

All comments are appreciated.

This post has been edited by Imperfecion: Nov 26 2010, 06:06 PM

Not all lawyers have to argue in court. In some countries the work of a solicitor is separate from the work of a barrister. Nevertheless, a law degree opens a lot of options.

Taking economics would benefit you, you'd be surprised how some engineering courses include a small bit of economics.

Granted chemistry does not have anything to do with commerce, but traditional, rigorous scientific subjects show aptitude for further study. A levels achieves its purposes if you pick the right subjects. There is no A level subject called 'Medicine' or 'Actuarial Science', but studying Chemistry/Maths/Physics gives you a good background.

You've only answered my questions partially;-).

Are you sure that you want to study Actuarial Science at Waterloo?
Or that you want to study Actuarial Science?

There are a few other schools that also have foundations and/or transfers (both local and overseas). Again, their foundations work in similar ways. You are severely limited.

Even if you are certain you want to do Actuarial Science, there are plenty of reasons why A levels would be better. Even if you do not study a different subject afterwards, you could still choose from more schools and locations at which to study Actuarial Science. A levels takes 1+ years normally (though technically you can sit all the exams at once and obtain the results in 2 months), but the sandwich programme you mentioned does not make studying any less time consuming either.

Like I said, nearly 80% of my A levels has nothing to do with Actuarial Science. But it has enabled me to choose - I might've been indecisive, but I was (and still am) open to a multitude of careers and academic choices.

as simple as from head to toe:

Are you decided on the field of study?
Yes: Go ahead to your choice

No: Get a general pre-u/ foundation programme to sort of give you more exposure and buy you more time.


Arguments on how blabla took this pre-U, flexibility on pre-U units towards course selection, wouldn't be significant enough to play a major part of your decision. The point is, in University, there are people that get stucked, lost interest and failed, just switches out to another discipline. Similarly, there's always a portion of student that come from different foundation and educational background in another field of study. Even in the career life, there are tonnes of engineers doing business, chemistry engineers work in IT fields, accountants run marketting etc.
These are not stupid peoples, they dont really "waste" money studying another field irrelevant to their career, as there may have some unfortunate or self-decision behind such circumstances, syllabus may not be transferable but skills obtained can be applied on another field.

Everything goes down into your own decision, your determination and your own way of doing things.
In my personal opinion, I dont believe in "before hand" preparation for Uni courses, its doing the subjects that you are confident + enjoyable +
able to score well, ( but of course with relevant prerequisite units) because your major emphasis is to Do well and be able to select from a range of good schools, for now.
But also, to consider the *recognition* of your foundation programme
"Good students that perform well will never find themselves being limited to what they planned to study"
This is how Universities often "impose" such exceptions.


Good luck.

This post has been edited by RyukA: Nov 28 2010, 12:46 AM

I would like to refer to your OP:

"Would it be a great advantage considering A-levels is taken because I'm not sure about my capabilities in Actuarial science?"

Granted, Actuarial Science is not easy, and is also extremely hard when it comes to professional exams. Similarly, the process of becoming a doctor could be just as arduous and rigorous. But few, if any, kids know - when they are still students of 16 to 18 - what it's truly like to study actuarial science/medicine and to be an actuary or a physician. It's quite impossible to know these things, you could only read about it or listen to others talk about it at best. This is why things can turn out differently later on. I have an offer of AABa. Even though I expect between A*A*AA-A*A*A*A*, this does not mean I am any likelier to pass with great results (first class, eight exemptions) when I finish - although I sincerely hope I achieve that level of success.

Another thing Ryuka said which is highly relevant, "I dont believe in "before hand" preparation for Uni courses". A course only asks for Maths - that doesn't mean the Physics and Chemistry and Biology I studied are meaningless. What's important is you are able to enter the school/course of your choice. You could say there are some (but few) subjects (normal and extended) that would 'better prepare' one for this course, but a breadth of subjects is important, while still fulfilling the requirements. An example: an Economics degree does not require A levels/IB Economics. Some subjects have no specific prerequisites. You would essentially have close to zero prior knowledge of the subject, but you could still get admitted for the course. As long as the end goal is achievable, the process need only be satisfactory - though in this case you have to catch up a little.

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Added on December 1, 2010, 2:06 pmJust to update, if you wanna know, I have AABa, A*AA, and A*AAa offers for BSc Actuarial Science and Risk Management, BSc Actuarial Science, and MMORSE so far. If you're considering this subject you will need at least A or A* in Maths A level or 7 for Higher Level Maths in IB for the United Kingdom and Ireland.

This post has been edited by LightningFist: Dec 2 2010, 01:55 AM

Which uni are you refering to?

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Added on December 11, 2010, 11:40 pmAnd what subjects did you take excluding Moral ,Malaysian Studies and Critical Thinking?

This post has been edited by Imperfecion: Dec 11 2010, 11:40 PM

i'm still in the dark about the whole process of actuarial science from the A levels.

1)what subjects that u required/need to take at A level in order for you to pursue your study overseas let's say Uni like LSE, City, etc ?

2)which Universities or college offers A level for acturial sicence with comparison which one is the best?

3)the difference of the system regarding to the A level test in each Uni i.e HELP, Taylor's, Sunway etc

4)the intake, the duration of A level and the test?

5)the minimum requirement for a place in oveseas Uni?

6)the programme of ADP or whatsoever courses, which Uni offers and which not?

7)the pros and cons of this such programme compared to with other programme

Please i need a reply for a whole view of the Actuarial Science course as i'm 17 this year and gonna take my spm. sorry for the much questions

1. An A in Maths for LSE last intake, an A* for City. Other unis better than or close to LSE need A*. That's the only required subject. Useful subjects are Further Mathematics, Economics, Physics, Chemistry, Biology etc.

2. Google search? So many have it. How do we judge the best? Overall ranking and prestige? Perception of industry connections and lecturer expertise?

3. Modular vs Linear. Explained very well, just search for it.

4. Normally around 1.5 years

5. Depends on school, varies a lot. Upper level minimum is A*AAa.

UTAR and UCSI university offers Actual Science degree course, check them out!