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 Mechanical Keyboard Club, For gamers, and typist enthusiasts

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victor2212
post Nov 11 2010, 02:07 AM

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QUOTE(jasmineivan @ Nov 11 2010, 01:50 AM)
Most of the keyboard at least is 6KRO of cause sufficient.
*
where did u see that?

Logitech G11 : 2KRO. Fails QA -Downarrow. Logitech refuses to talk about failure modes.
Logitech Gaming Keyboard G110: 2KRO Fails ZXC, MKL. Source.
Logitech G15V1: 2KRO Fails Rshift-RightArrow-UpArrow, Rctrl-DownArrow-LeftArrow Source
Logitech G15V2: 2KRO.
Logitech Illuminated Keyboard: 2KRO. Fails Lshift-W-Spacebar. No bunny jumping with this one! Source.
Microsoft Sidewinder X6 : 2KRO. Fails Ctrl-W-R. No reloading while crawling! Source.
Razer Black Widow (lighted and non-lighted): 2KRO. Fails ZXC. Well optimized around WASD/ESDF clusters. Not so much for arrow key users - any combo above 2 arrow keys fails. Source 1. Source 2 (note CTRL-AQ does work).
Razer Lycosa: 2KRO. Fails HJK but passes ASX. Source.
Saitek Eclipse: 2KRO. Fails QWA, LOP. Source.
SteelSeries 6Gv1: 2KRO. Fails QAS, WSD despite being advertised as 8KRO Source.
SteelSeries Merc Stealth: 2KRO. Fails ERT, DFG, CVB despite being advertised as 7KRO. Source.
jasmineivan
post Nov 11 2010, 02:29 AM

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QUOTE(victor2212 @ Nov 11 2010, 02:07 AM)
where did u see that?

Logitech G11 : 2KRO. Fails QA -Downarrow. Logitech refuses to talk about failure modes.
Logitech Gaming Keyboard G110: 2KRO Fails ZXC, MKL. Source.
Logitech G15V1: 2KRO Fails Rshift-RightArrow-UpArrow, Rctrl-DownArrow-LeftArrow Source
Logitech G15V2: 2KRO.
Logitech Illuminated Keyboard: 2KRO. Fails Lshift-W-Spacebar. No bunny jumping with this one! Source.
Microsoft Sidewinder X6 : 2KRO. Fails Ctrl-W-R. No reloading while crawling! Source.
Razer Black Widow (lighted and non-lighted): 2KRO. Fails ZXC. Well optimized around WASD/ESDF clusters. Not so much for arrow key users - any combo above 2 arrow keys fails. Source 1. Source 2 (note CTRL-AQ does work).
Razer Lycosa: 2KRO. Fails HJK but passes ASX. Source.
Saitek Eclipse: 2KRO. Fails QWA, LOP. Source.
SteelSeries 6Gv1: 2KRO. Fails QAS, WSD despite being advertised as 8KRO Source.
SteelSeries Merc Stealth: 2KRO. Fails ERT, DFG, CVB despite being advertised as 7KRO. Source.
*
I read that before also, those like G15 and x6, most of their problem fixed by anti-ghosting effect. Only keyboard that fail ZXC in the list is G110, i am not sure about this keyboard, never use before also. I remember got a picture there showing the anti-ghosting area right, most of the keys around wasd should be not affected.
therefore no problem found when really using it.
Lycosa is the only keyboard that make me notice the KRO issue.

Other than those gaming keyboard included in the list, most of the keyboard in the market is not using any macro button, connect the port converter then KRO problem is solved.

This post has been edited by jasmineivan: Nov 11 2010, 02:33 AM
TSMoogle Stiltzkin
post Nov 11 2010, 03:24 AM

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DIATEC Filco Majestouch N-key rollover Brown Switch Keyboard Review

QUOTE
About N-Key Rollover (NKRO)

N-key Rollover allows multiple simultaneous key presses to be recognized by your computer. This means that each key is scanned completely independently by the keyboard hardware, so that each key press is correctly detected regardless of how many other keys are being pressed or held down at the time.



True N-key Rollover, as used by Filco works only with the included PS/2 adapter. Using the USB connection will limit the N-key Rollover function to 6 keys, plus 4 modifiers (Ctrl, Alt, Pgup, etc.), at a time.NKRO is similar to but not the same as what some 'gaming keyboards' incorrectly market as "anti-ghosting". You might also hear the term where n is replaced with a number (i.e., 6-key rollover), which means that up to that number of keys can be pressed simultaneously.



Filco use isolation diodes in their keyboard matrix to implement full N-key rollover (sometimes abbreviated NKRO), making them immune to both anti ghosting and key jamming. This sets them apart from most keyboards which, to reduce cost and design complexity, do not isolate all keys in this way. Instead, they use a matrix of key switches, without any isolation diodes, that assumes that only a limited number of keys will be held down at any given time.



A keyboard with "2-key rollover" can reliably detect only any two keys used simultaneously; in other words, a user can hold down any key on the keyboard and press a second key, and be sure that the key press is correctly detected by the computer. However, if the user has two keys depressed and attempts to strike a third key, the third key press may create a "phantom key" by shorting out the switch matrix. This is not acceptable for quality keyboards because there are many cases when more than two keys need to be depressed at the same time, or when more than two keys are depressed because of fast typing ("rolling over" more than two keys).



A simple test can be found at  http://rollover.geekhack.org/



Using the edge of a ruler depress the top line keyboard, the software will register the total number of keys registered. If possible, try the same test using both Usb and PS/2 connections.
QUOTE
Conclusive Thoughts

Right after testing the SteelSeries 7G, I got more interested in the mechanical keyboards, because they offer a better computing experience and can ever increase the productivity; they are great when writing large articles, but also when gaming.



The most common switch types used in current mechanical keyboards are Cherry MX Black, Blue and Brown. The differences between these switches are little when using the keyboard for the first time, but after a while, they become more perceptible. Their colors are used to differentiate the different characteristics:

- Cherry MX Black is a non-tactile, non-clicky switch

- Cherry MX Blue is both tactile and clicky

- Cherry MX Brown is tactile, but not clicky

These three types of switches also require different forces when pressed, the heaviest being the Black, followed by the Blue and the Brown.



The Majestouch Filco Majestouch N-key rollover Brown Switch feels easier to type compared to the 7G and till now it is my favourite keyboard; the only thing that it is missing is a wrist-pad. Some nice leather ones are sold separately for extra cost. This particular product does not feature lots of LEDs or other *bling* gaming keyboards usually have, but embraces a standard design; if you do not have a lot of space available on your desk, you can also look at the available Tenkeyless variant.

This keyboard can be bought online for about £111.63.


http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/1000091


brand new review by madshrimps biggrin.gif


Here is the Steelseries 7G review for comparison

http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/...Keyboard-Review




I'm not saying that NKRO is the must have feature, as there many other things to consider when deciding to get a keyboard. So all the facts are here, so decide for yourself what you would be ok with and at what price range cool.gif

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Nov 11 2010, 03:34 AM
jasmineivan
post Nov 11 2010, 03:51 AM

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QUOTE(Moogle Stiltzkin @ Nov 11 2010, 03:24 AM)
DIATEC Filco Majestouch N-key rollover Brown Switch Keyboard Review
http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/1000091
brand new review by madshrimps biggrin.gif
Here is the Steelseries 7G review for comparison

http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/...Keyboard-Review
I'm not saying that NKRO is the must have feature, as there many other things to consider when deciding to get a keyboard. So all the facts are here, so decide for yourself what you would be ok with and at what price range  cool.gif
*
they conclude about the same thing also.
Lighter touch switches.
Tactile but non-clicky.
Missing of palm rest.
Cyclonechuah
post Nov 11 2010, 04:22 AM

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From my point of view, the keyboard must be atleast 4KRO, but for my own i'll choose NKRO over any of those.

since hotkey and other key combination is also consider important as you're doing making hotkeys to customize so things you use will be more easily accessible.

Lacking of those basically makes you(me) just wanted to type the keyboard with only one finger(each finger on both hand).

This post has been edited by Cyclonechuah: Nov 11 2010, 04:22 AM
TSMoogle Stiltzkin
post Nov 11 2010, 06:22 AM

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A roundup of some gaming keyboards. Rubber domes and mechanicals added as a comparison doh.gif

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Keyboard-Steel...eview-1594.html


I just read the review. The sample kbs are just too few. It doesn't even consider the razer bw rubber dome to compare against the Logitech. Also for mechanical no mention of Ducky 9008 or even a Filco. Maybe they were only aiming for the more readily available kbs, but still i would have preferred if they had been more thorough :/



This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Nov 11 2010, 06:30 AM
OCN_fssbzz
post Nov 11 2010, 07:50 AM

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want NKRO.
Get Xarmor U9BL instead Razer Black Widow.
Same price. But Xarmor got full NKRO.
Have to do MO or import if you want.

This post has been edited by OCN_fssbzz: Nov 11 2010, 07:51 AM
jasmineivan
post Nov 11 2010, 09:54 AM

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QUOTE(OCN_fssbzz @ Nov 11 2010, 07:50 AM)
want NKRO.
Get Xarmor U9BL instead Razer Black Widow.
Same price. But Xarmor got full NKRO.
Have to do MO or import if you want.
*
Blackwindow is with Macro recording, this without.
They are serving for different people's needs, so i don't think can compare them.
OCN_fssbzz
post Nov 11 2010, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(jasmineivan @ Nov 10 2010, 06:54 PM)
Blackwindow is with Macro recording, this without.
They are serving for different people's needs, so i don't think can compare them.
*
Macro can be set up with
http://www.autohotkey.com/
easily
Gaming macro?
Numpad are usable for all the macro needs.
for gaming purpose, i will always prefer NKRO or 6KRO> 2KRO or Gaming Optimize.
It is always safe your key combination never get block. You never have to worry about any key block combination.
I play WoW, Starcraft, all macro are on my Numpad. never going to need more then that.

N1ck
post Nov 11 2010, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(OCN_fssbzz @ Nov 11 2010, 10:50 AM)
Macro can be set up with
http://www.autohotkey.com/
easily
Gaming macro?
Numpad are usable for all the macro needs.
for gaming purpose, i will always prefer NKRO or 6KRO> 2KRO or Gaming Optimize.
It is always safe your key combination never get block. You never have to worry about any key block combination.
I play WoW, Starcraft, all macro are on my Numpad. never going to need more then that.
*
Noob question.
If you put the macro on your numpad, you don't get to use your numpad right? How about a USB numpad?



QUOTE(Moogle Stiltzkin @ Nov 11 2010, 06:22 AM)
A roundup of some gaming keyboards. Rubber domes and mechanicals added as a comparison doh.gif

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/Keyboard-Steel...eview-1594.html
I just read the review. The sample kbs are just too few. It doesn't even consider the razer bw rubber dome to compare against the Logitech. Also for mechanical no mention of Ducky 9008 or even a Filco. Maybe they were only aiming for the more readily available kbs, but still i would have preferred if they had been more thorough :/
*
And that is why manufacturers don't care about NKRO because the majority of people just want bling such as backlighting, LCD screens, usb ports and so on.

This post has been edited by N1ck: Nov 11 2010, 11:37 AM
OCN_fssbzz
post Nov 11 2010, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(N1ck @ Nov 10 2010, 08:17 PM)
Noob question.
If you put the macro on your numpad, you don't get to use your numpad right? How about a USB numpad?
And that is why manufacturers don't care about NKRO because the majority of people just want bling such as backlighting, LCD screens, usb ports and so on.
*
in game keyboard setting set for game macro.
in Windows, i don use macro in regular windows.
macro only be set when in the game
using game setting.

TSMoogle Stiltzkin
post Nov 11 2010, 01:08 PM

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More pictures of my doubleshots. Surprise item was a orange key puller with pad printed wording saying "Wanna switch?" on the side.

user posted image

biggrin.gif


@fssbzz

Nice avy nod.gif


Speaking of macro, the only time i've used it was for World of Warcraft. Macros for that game are really important ( i was a main tank Paladin by the way ).

But the macros i used were setup ingame and tagged to button boxes ingame. I was a clicker rather than a hot keyer sort of player. But i can see how extra macro keys like on my G15V1 rubber dome keyboard might have helped with reaction time.

Anyway since i have lack of experience with keyboard macros, i'm not sure what other advantage something like Razer's Black Widow macro can do that you can't do ingame which at worse you just replace a preset key for your own custom macro (configured in wow settings ingame).

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Nov 11 2010, 01:20 PM
OCN_fssbzz
post Nov 11 2010, 01:10 PM

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is very nice..just that Center alignment big ass font that stop me from ordering from him.
TSMoogle Stiltzkin
post Nov 11 2010, 01:21 PM

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I tried asking for some pictures of 1 full set (previous pictures were low quality, and just an estimate what it will generally look like), but i think he is just gonna pack them and ship as soon as possible, so he won't have time to do that.

Once i get my set i'll take some pictures. But my digital cam is really bad :/ less than 4 megapixels :{ /cry

This post has been edited by Moogle Stiltzkin: Nov 11 2010, 01:22 PM
OCN_fssbzz
post Nov 11 2010, 01:36 PM

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nothing special is basically like the one it show on the first post.

This post has been edited by OCN_fssbzz: Nov 11 2010, 01:36 PM
jasmineivan
post Nov 11 2010, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(OCN_fssbzz @ Nov 11 2010, 12:46 PM)
in game keyboard setting set for game macro.
in Windows, i don use macro in regular windows.
macro only be set when in the game
using game setting.
*
BW with 1 extra row of macro button, which is not appear in normal layout.
The autohotkey still can be use, the row of button will be extra. And it is at left hand side of the keyboard easier to reach compare to numpad.
TSMoogle Stiltzkin
post Nov 11 2010, 04:23 PM

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user posted image

biggrin.gif


jay
post Nov 11 2010, 04:36 PM

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Moogle ur keyboard or?? what keycap is that??
jasmineivan
post Nov 11 2010, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(Moogle Stiltzkin @ Nov 11 2010, 04:23 PM)
user posted image

biggrin.gif
*
The letter on the key caps is so big.
Cyclonechuah
post Nov 11 2010, 05:39 PM

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QUOTE(jay @ Nov 11 2010, 04:36 PM)
Moogle ur keyboard or?? what keycap is that??
*
i don't think this keyboard is his.

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