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 What insurance plan you having? Pls share as guide, Tell us how much, good/bad it is:)

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thesoothsayer
post Aug 13 2012, 11:55 PM

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QUOTE(ExpZero @ Aug 12 2012, 11:54 PM)
There is no point to pay 2 cards as you are paying more but get less, it is always advisable to maintain one card only. If you concern about the annual and lifetime limit, you may get higher room&board. However, to answer your question about double claim medical card, it is do-able in great eastern, you may claim your medical bill in other company and then take claim the co-insurance under great eastern's medical card.
Why do you say that? Do you have any examples?

Some cards seem to dove-tail well together, especially those supplementary coverage cards that come cheap and can make up of the shortfalls from the main cards.

QUOTE(ExpZero @ Aug 12 2012, 11:54 PM)
Standalone medical card doesn't comes with waiver of premium, this is crucial as if anything happen to you, you still have to pay your medical card for life. Income maybe adjusted or you may lose the potential of income increment after some big illness, it is always recommended to attach waiver of premium to your medical card.
*
Well, this is another one of those trade-offs that a person has to decide on.

Whether to pay more earlier and depend on the insurance company to invest well or to pay less and to invest the difference on your own.
ExpZero
post Aug 14 2012, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(thesoothsayer @ Aug 13 2012, 11:55 PM)
Why do you say that? Do you have any examples?

Some cards seem to dove-tail well together, especially those supplementary coverage cards that come cheap and can make up of the shortfalls from the main cards.
Well, this is another one of those trade-offs that a person has to decide on.

Whether to pay more earlier and depend on the insurance company to invest well or to pay less and to invest the difference on your own.
*
Well, age 30, male, non smoker, One standalone medical card r&b200 cost rm621 yearly and if you buy two, it would be rm1241(621x2), whereas if you buy one r&b400, it only cost rm1092. It haven't added up all the hassle you have to claim two times.

Waiver of premium is a must if you ask for my opinion, it serve as insurance for your medical card. Let's say a person bought rm50k critical illness and upon diagnose with critical illness, he will need to use all the rm50k to pay for the future of his medical card premium because he lost all his future income earning power, so in the end he has to use all the insurance claim money to pay his future insurance medical card premium, which is a very pathetic scenario because he knew he wouldn't have opportunity to apply for a new medical card.
wongmunkeong
post Aug 15 2012, 09:31 AM

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Something to share on insurances - thoughts of a trained actuary and CFA:

http://www.investmentmoats.com/budgeting/i...mple-insurance/

Opinions from a trained actuary: Stick to simple insurance
Posted by DrizztAugust 15, 2012

In my insurance blast these few weeks, we talked about a particular trained field of mathematicians who assist in valuing the risks of insurance products, how they don’t seem to buy whole life insurance and investment linked policies.

I managed to get into contact with a US investment professional David Merkel. David is a trained life actuary as well as a CFA. He current managed his own fund, Aleph Investments, and talks about investment mainly in the domain of bonds and insurance companies at The Aleph Blog.

So I pose this question to David:
When I know that you are trained as an actuary it got me curious. They say that actuary assess the risks of insurance products to find value for consumers, at the same time evaluate the probable risks of the product.
What kind of insurance does an actuary actually buy for his and his family? Insurance are often sold with economic bias so what better way to know then find out from people that use actual data and determined it through quantifiable methods.

I heard that actuaries often buy only term life insurance only and that investment linked and limited whole life policies do not make sense. At the same time, it would seem that the way you can claim critical illness is such that most of the time you can claim it, you are almost very disabled or near death. In such a scenario wouldnt [sic] a pure death and tpd [sic] term life be suffice?

David’s reply was as follows:
This is my opinion, given my dealings among actuaries. I could be wrong. Actuaries avoid complexity in insurance products. Why? In general, complex products hide high profit margins. Products that are easy to analyze, like term life insurance, are competitive, and profit margins are low.

The same is true for savings products, like deferred annuities. Actuaries tend to buy simple products that cover basic needs.

Also, they tend to use insurance as catastrophe cover, because they know that having insurance companies pay on a lot of small claims is expensive on average.

There is an exception to all of this. If you are so rich as to need to stiff the taxman, buying cash value insurance policies can make a lot of sense. In that case, wealthy actuaries with clever tax advisors buy cash value life insurance. Death benefits do not pass through the estate.
Actuaries are generally conservative, and avoid insurance products that are not easily analyzed. That should be true of most insurance buyers.
I think that’s why my AIA insurance agent kept selling to me that his well heeled clients buy a lot of endowments.

We wonder whether many of us are in the same situation.
Whatever it is, the common myth in a person not knowledgeable in insurance is cheap equals lesser benefits. This sort of debunks it since guys factor in multi factors in their computation. Then again I could be wrong since there may be some important factors that were assumed, which could be gravely wrong when put into practice.
roystevenung
post Aug 15 2012, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 15 2012, 09:31 AM)
<snip>...
I think that’s why my AIA insurance agent kept selling to me that his well heeled clients buy a lot of endowments.

We wonder whether many of us are in the same situation.
Whatever it is, the common myth in a person not knowledgeable in insurance is cheap equals lesser benefits. This sort of debunks it since guys factor in multi factors in their computation. Then again I could be wrong since there may be some important factors that were assumed, which could be gravely wrong when put into practice.
*
Or just buy because he keeps asking them for the business... whistling.gif
wongmunkeong
post Aug 15 2012, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(roystevenung @ Aug 15 2012, 10:11 AM)
Or just buy because he keeps asking them for the business...  whistling.gif
*
eh Roy, can pick yr brains a bit ar?
In MY, what is the estate / inheritance taxes % and levels ar?
eg. as far as i read, anything below RM2M inherited (Will to gift charities and child(ren) ) isn't taxable.
What if it's more than that?

Sorry yar, sounds like not related to insurance but it is - methods and ways to bypass taxes via death insurances and endowments tongue.gif
gark
post Aug 15 2012, 01:44 PM

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An interesting advice from an ex-insurance salesman...great advice...

QUOTE
One of my closest friends in the world completed a Ph.D. in mathematics recently and became an actuary for a very large life insurance company. I had lunch with him recently just to catch up on things and we spent about ten minutes talking about life insurance itself. He basically told me that if I am a financially sound person, I am throwing my money away on life insurance unless I meet a few strict criteria (young, a relatively low net worth, and young children). This kind of blew me away considering he’s in the life insurance business, but when he broke it down for me, it made a lot of sense. Note that the advice that follows is based on a conversation between friends and shouldn’t be viewed as professional advice and you shouldn’t just follow it blindly without doing your own research, but it is quite interesting and worth sharing.

First of all, unless you are a financial train wreck, you should never buy anything but term life insurance. Insurance as an investment is a great investment for the insurance company but a terrible one for you. If you want insurance, get insurance; if you want to invest, buy an investment. Don’t mix the two – it’s akin to buying a box of bad cereal to get the cheap plastic toy inside. Why not just save a buck and get a better box of cereal, then spend the buck to get a better toy?

Second, if you have no dependents and no spouse, don’t buy life insurance. Ever. Don’t let a salesman talk you into it.

Next, the more net worth you have, the less insurance you need. This means that before you start thinking about life insurance, know what your net worth is. This is an important number for figuring out how much net worth you’re going to need.

After that, think about your family’s needs carefully. Look at how many people are in your household (spouse plus dependent children) and multiply that by five, or maybe a bit more if your children are very young – this number is the number of years worth of your salary that would be needed to support each person in your house should you pass away. He suggested multiplying it by six in my situation, but I wanted plenty of security for my kids, so I used eight. I then multiply it by the number of people in the household, four. That gives me thirty two. This number is the number of “salary years” that I should leave behind.

Then, multiply your calculated “salary years” by your current salary (or reasonably expected salary in a few years) to see how much net worth you should leave behind. Let’s say I make $50,000 a year; times thirty two, that means I need to leave behind $1.6 million. Ouch. That’s a lot.

However, one should subtract from that their net worth. I would make a little dent in that number, but not a big one, leaving me with still quite a sizeable policy. If I went with a lower multiplier (say, my friend’s recommended 6), I could reduce the policy quite a bit.

Once you have your magic number, get a relatively short term policy for that amount, usually long enough for your children to have left the nest. For my example here, that means I would get a twenty year term life insurance policy for $1 to $1.5 million. The premiums on that would be $600 to $800 a year, or $50 to $65 a month. He suggests doing this so that one can potentially get a better rate with a twenty year policy instead of a ten year one, but that policies that extend past the children leaving the nest are a fool’s game.

When your policy expires, don’t renew it immediately – recalculate. Let’s say that in twenty years, my children have left the nest, leaving my wife and I home alone together. We’ve built up some serious savings, our home is paid for, and thus our net worth is in pretty good shape. I sit down and recalculate and discover that in fact my net worth now exceeds ten times my salary (five times the people in household, which would be two), so I just don’t bother with life insurance again, leaving me with $50 a month more to enjoy or invest.


Aiyah... WMK beat me to it.. hehehe but never mind above is a more complete read. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by gark: Aug 15 2012, 01:49 PM
roystevenung
post Aug 15 2012, 02:25 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 15 2012, 10:30 AM)
eh Roy, can pick yr brains a bit ar?
In MY, what is the estate / inheritance taxes % and levels ar?
eg. as far as i read, anything below RM2M inherited (Will to gift charities and child(ren) ) isn't taxable.
What if it's more than that?

Sorry yar, sounds like not related to insurance but it is - methods and ways to bypass taxes via death insurances and endowments tongue.gif
*
Taiko, sorry but I don't do will & estate planning.
Maybe you can talk to the people below this link http://www.mywill.com.my/will_writing.asp

and share with us for any tips on how to lari from tax :-)

I hope no IRB officer is reading this thread whistling.gif

This post has been edited by roystevenung: Aug 15 2012, 02:31 PM
alexkos
post Aug 15 2012, 02:31 PM

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78k life assured
4 riders inc. 36CI, all gg DD donno what benefit
100 per month, 1.2k per annum.

paid for 9 years, now investment linked insurance value left 7k.

young graduate, 2 years working experience, no spouse & dependants.

I felt that I'm scammed........

This post has been edited by alexkos: Aug 15 2012, 02:33 PM
roystevenung
post Aug 15 2012, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Aug 15 2012, 02:31 PM)
78k life assured
4 riders inc. 36CI, all gg DD donno what benefit
100 per month, 1.2k per annum.

paid for 9 years, now investment linked insurance value left 7k.

I felt that I'm scammed........
*
Investment Link doesn't necessarily mean you'll get profit. The agent commission for 6 years are approximately 120~140% (depending on the product). That is why on the 7th year onwards only you're able to see the cash value increasing.

It is all mentioned in the brochure, the allocation rate. Also, don't be misled into thinking that the word "Investment link" is pure investment. When anything that has insurance in it, there is bound to be insurance charges (the insurance charge will increase by age).

People buy insurance for the PROTECTION value, not investment value unless you specifically monitor the funds and do top ups/switching/saver periodically.

The investment link policies returns does not declare dividend (hence the returns no need to declare tax, hint to WMK).

The cash values can be withdrawn anytime, but do note that if you withdraw, and when the insurance charges goes up at older age, the policy may be at risk of lapsing if the premium paid + cash values in the policy is not able to sustain the insurance charges.

Duly note, I'm NOT asking you to cancel the policy as you can never get the same amount of cover for that amount as insurance charges goes up by age group.

What about medical card? Do you own one? That is more important as we are not able to foresee when we are going to fall seriously sick.
alexkos
post Aug 15 2012, 02:47 PM

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@roystevenung

yes i have a medical card which i never used to date.

Kindly advise.


Molotov Cocktail
post Aug 15 2012, 03:47 PM

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this is mine

im 26 y.o
life : 380k
CI : 380k
TPD: 480k

Plan : HSBC Amanah Life Select Regular Takaful

Cash Value to date : RM 1800 (start paid premium in Mac 2010)

Premium: RM200/month

No Medical Plan

What do you guys think, am i covering too much, do i need medical card as my CI cover i think may good enough to cover if anything happens
roystevenung
post Aug 15 2012, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Aug 15 2012, 02:47 PM)
@roystevenung

yes i have a medical card which i never used to date.

Kindly advise.
*
The medical card or any form of insurance needs to be there before anything happens in order for the insurance company to pay for the claim.

The coverage of RM78K isn't really that much but I do suggest you still continue with it as one day when your responsibilities increases (get married with dependents) you can increase on the cover.

This is the beauty of the Investment Linked Policy, it is a flexible plan that can be amended at anytime (provided we are still insurable) and not having to take up another policy to incur admin/policy charges.

Insurance for life or Critical Illness is meant for income replacement should the dreaded occurs. Touchwood, how long do you think RM78K can last if we're down with Critical Illness (bedridden and not able to generate an income for life?) vs the current expenses/commitment that we are having?

By the way, when was the last time you sat down with an agent to do a policy review on the medical card? Older medical cards have a lifetime limit of RM 150K while the newer ones comes with a minimum of RM 500K, due to the medical inflation at private hospitals.

Do contact the agent that sold you that policy if you haven't done so or if you have doubts on the policy. Insurance is a very very long time commitment, and will need to pay till the end of the term, medical card up to your age of 70 or 80.


Added on August 15, 2012, 4:22 pm
QUOTE(Molotov Cocktail @ Aug 15 2012, 03:47 PM)
this is mine

im 26 y.o
life : 380k
CI : 380k
TPD: 480k

Plan : HSBC Amanah Life Select Regular Takaful

Cash Value to date : RM 1800 (start paid premium in Mac 2010)

Premium: RM200/month

No Medical Plan

What do you guys think, am i covering too much, do i need medical card as my CI cover i think may good enough to cover if anything happens
*
If have a heart attack, needs to do a heart bypass and it'll cost Rm 80K, the hospital bill needs to be paid in order for the doctors to write the reports in order to claim for the RM 380k.

In the middle of the night someone comes to with parang, slash here slash there, go to hospital. Wait, can't claim cos the above is not TPD.

Hypothetically speaking, okay? Take note, I didn't mention the heart attack happens to you, so TOUCH WOOD whistling.gif

Anyway, would like to want to wish you & all the LYN a Selamat Hari Raya (Maaf, Zahir, Batin).

This post has been edited by roystevenung: Aug 15 2012, 04:22 PM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 15 2012, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(roystevenung @ Aug 15 2012, 02:42 PM)
Investment Link doesn't necessarily mean you'll get profit. The agent commission for 6 years are approximately 120~140% (depending on the product). That is why on the 7th year onwards only you're able to see the cash value increasing.

It is all mentioned in the brochure, the allocation rate. Also, don't be misled into thinking that the word "Investment link" is pure investment. When anything that has insurance in it, there is bound to be insurance charges (the insurance charge will increase by age).

People buy insurance for the PROTECTION value, not investment value unless you specifically monitor the funds and do top ups/switching/saver periodically.

The investment link policies returns does not declare dividend (hence the returns no need to declare tax, hint to WMK).

The cash values can be withdrawn anytime, but do note that if you withdraw, and when the insurance charges goes up at older age, the policy may be at risk of lapsing if the premium paid + cash values in the policy is not able to sustain the insurance charges.

Duly note, I'm NOT asking you to cancel the policy as you can never get the same amount of cover for that amount as insurance charges goes up by age group.

What about medical card? Do you own one? That is more important as we are not able to foresee when we are going to fall seriously sick.
*
Thanks for the HINT HINT tongue.gif but.. that "6 years losses"... thinggy.. banyak painful lar especially when i know i can match or beat it.
alexkos
post Aug 15 2012, 05:05 PM

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yalo, my 6 years.... gg my insurance lui... gonna term dia.
Kaka23
post Aug 15 2012, 05:53 PM

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What is actually endowment? Investment link policy? I am blur..
wongmunkeong
post Aug 15 2012, 06:53 PM

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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Aug 15 2012, 05:53 PM)
What is actually endowment? Investment link policy? I am blur..
*
Wiki version: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_policy

ExpZero
post Aug 15 2012, 07:34 PM

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QUOTE(alexkos @ Aug 15 2012, 05:05 PM)
yalo, my 6 years.... gg my insurance lui... gonna term dia.
*
You will feel more gg when you buy a vehicle, u paid rm100k for a car, rm50k go to BN, rm38k go to manufacturer profit, rm2k go to salesman commission and actually your car cost maybe just rm10k. Buy house, almost rm20k paid to lawyer for "unknown" fees, duty fees, etc fees etc fees. Go see doctor, my cousin only fever, doctor charge rm2.5k vmad.gif mad.gif

QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Aug 15 2012, 05:53 PM)
What is actually endowment? Investment link policy? I am blur..
*
endowment in Malaysia insurance are more into "saving" insurance plan, you pay for a xxx then when the endowment mature in yyy years, you will get certain money.

Investment link policy is a comprehensive coverage insurance plan where the money you paid will goes to buy fund and deduct insurance charges. Usually it will attach with many riders such as 36 critical illness, waiver of premium, medical card, hospitalization benefit etc etc.
roystevenung
post Aug 15 2012, 07:50 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 15 2012, 05:04 PM)
Thanks for the HINT HINT tongue.gif but.. that "6 years losses"... thinggy.. banyak painful lar especially when i know i can match or beat it.
*
Prudential Equity Fund NAV in Sep 2011 was RM 2.90480
Today: RM 3.602260

http://www2.prudential.com.my/fundpriceV2/daily.php

At least got extra duit raya thumbup.gif


Added on August 15, 2012, 7:55 pm
QUOTE(alexkos @ Aug 15 2012, 05:05 PM)
yalo, my 6 years.... gg my insurance lui... gonna term dia.
*
Aiyo taiko don't be angry that we earn the 6 year commission. For as long as we are in this business we will service the client one. If you live up to age 80, and we also panjang umur we will service you, okay?

I got a client last year Sep took a policy for baby, to date already 4 times claim already. We also need to go to see the client to get the receipts (for pre & post follow ups), handle the claim etc.

Not that easy to earn money in this business :-)

This post has been edited by roystevenung: Aug 15 2012, 07:55 PM
alexkos
post Aug 15 2012, 09:07 PM

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I don't know, but at present moment I'm quite happy with 100 bucks per month commitment. Not everyone can afford such commitment given the rise of food, house, cars, and other necessities.

So.... I'm going to insurance company one day and clear the air out. Otherwise, I'll just opt for term.


Kaka23
post Aug 15 2012, 09:57 PM

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Brother Roy.. Do you know why there was a picket at prudential? Saw from another prudential thread here in financial, investment section..


Added on August 15, 2012, 9:58 pm
QUOTE(ExpZero @ Aug 15 2012, 08:34 PM)
You will feel more gg when you buy a vehicle, u paid rm100k for a car, rm50k go to BN, rm38k go to manufacturer profit, rm2k go to salesman commission and actually your car cost maybe just rm10k. Buy house, almost rm20k paid to lawyer for "unknown" fees, duty fees, etc fees etc fees. Go see doctor, my cousin only fever, doctor charge rm2.5k vmad.gif  mad.gif
endowment in Malaysia insurance are more into "saving" insurance plan, you pay for a xxx then when the endowment mature in yyy years, you will get certain money.

Investment link policy is a comprehensive coverage insurance plan where the money you paid will goes to buy fund and deduct insurance charges. Usually it will attach with many riders such as 36 critical illness, waiver of premium, medical card, hospitalization benefit etc etc.
*
Thanks ExpZero


Added on August 15, 2012, 9:59 pm
QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 15 2012, 07:53 PM)
Thanks for the link.. Haha

This post has been edited by Kaka23: Aug 15 2012, 09:59 PM

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