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TSdariofoo
post Jul 14 2011, 11:31 AM

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QUOTE(lyt25_1234 @ Jul 14 2011, 10:55 AM)
Thanks! That's what I have thought biggrin.gif
*
Glad to have confirmed your thoughts,mate icon_rolleyes.gif

TSdariofoo
post Jul 14 2011, 04:16 PM

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Answers to your questions:
1) Yes. It does not affect the SPA
2) No you can't, but you can complain to the A&S DB.
3) What risk? It is a contract. If you're not happy with the services rendered, you terminate their services.
4) Whether or not fees are paid, that is a different issue altogether. It doesn't mean that she doesn't do her work professionally. Keep the letter as further evidence in your complain against her.

There are roughly 2000 law firms in Klang Valley. Out of that, at least half, or more than half, practise conveyancing. Am sure you'll find a replacement lawyer.

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This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jul 14 2011, 04:20 PM
TSdariofoo
post Jul 14 2011, 04:19 PM

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QUOTE(may1126 @ Jul 14 2011, 12:45 PM)
HI, i have a query here regarding loan agreement fee. i thought the legal fee & stamp duty is fix on a rate, and lawyer should follow the rate to charge client. but it seem like not true. for loan RM320,450, i pay RM5,500 for tatal fee. no detail breakdown some more. lawyer only give a receipt in total figure, no inv also. pls advice. thx very much notworthy.gif
*
You have the right to ask for a breakdown of charges - it's normally called Note of Charges. Insist for it.

Total fee might include disbursements (expenses) and 6% govt tax. Don't forget that.

Download the SRO at the first page to get a fair idea of what and how much can be billed by your lawyer.

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TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(may1126 @ Jul 14 2011, 05:00 PM)
Thx for ur advice nod.gif  had read SRO at the 1st page u provide.

for loan 320,450
my calculation = 1st 150k = 1% = RM1500
subseq 170,450 x 0.7% = RM1193.15
1500+1193.15 = RM2693.15 x 6% govn tax = 161.60 = RM2854.75
stamp duty 320,450 x 0.5% = RM1602.25
Total legal + stamp duty = RM2854.75+RM1602.25 = RM4457

pls correct me if wrong, thx  notworthy.gif

the lawyer charge 5500, he untung RM1043 ; Disbursement = RM1043 ?

just curious that how much MAXIMUM lawyer can charge for disbursement  shakehead.gif
*
There's legal fees on subsidiary legal documents like DOA and PA as well. It also depends whether it is subsale or from developer.

To cut a long story short and to avoid any more confusion, just insist on a note of charges from the lawyer IMMEDIATELY.

You can then compare with the many samples in this thread.

Disbusements vary from firm to firm. As stated, it may not be RM1043 as there are legal fees on subsidiary legal documents as well.

Good luck icon_rolleyes.gif


TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 01:01 PM

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QUOTE(straw @ Jul 14 2011, 05:06 PM)
Hi,

For rental tenancy how to calculate legal fees?

Thanks.
*
If rental is up to RM10,000.00 - 25% of monthly rental,subject to a minimum RM300.00.

If exceeds RM10,000.00 until RM100,000.00 - 10% from the excess.

If exceeds RM100,000.00 - negotiatable on the excess, but cannot exceed 10% of the excess.

Got it? icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 01:03 PM

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sansi:

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Bro, can you compare with the previous samples in this thread to get a fairer idea? I think you've put up a sample yourself before this wherein I had advised you. It would be the almost the same. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 01:11 PM

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QUOTE(irise.ufall @ Jul 15 2011, 11:51 AM)
Thanks Dariofoo.  thumbup.gif

Hope you don mind to enlighten me on these:  notworthy.gif

1) May i hv the contact no. of A&S DB. I tried to search from Mr. Google but i cant find sth relevant..
2) The risk in my mind is: They may try to delay even more if i terminate them. Apparently she is helping the Vendor to drag (as the Vendor is still looking for a hse), will it fasten the process if i engage another lawyer? (by issuing letter to request for the docs required instead of let the currect SPA lawyer do watever she likes at her convenience)
3) Do u think they hv failed to perform as they don even answer my questions??
4) Can Bar Council really helps?

I try not to terminate their service but things are just not running at the standard speed. I m not asking for sth ridiculous, am i? 

Thanks a million for your help~  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif
*
The link is on the first page of this thread. The website has all the details you need to file a complaint.

With regard to your other questions/concerns, I can only advise you on your options but for me to go any further than that would be to over-step the boundaries of this thread.

You initially wanted to terminate them, but now you are saying that you "try not to terminate their services".

At the end of the day, please weigh your options carefully based on what I've advised you and make your own decision. I cannot forsee the consequences of the choices you make.

This is as far as I can go. You are always free to open up a new topic of your own at the Property Talk forum itself and see the response of other forummers there.

This thread is pinned here by the Moderators strictly for legal advice and nothing further.

I wish you all the best icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 01:13 PM

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QUOTE(Khyra_abigale @ Jul 15 2011, 12:21 AM)
Good day everyone, I was wondering, where can I find free malaysian legal resources online, somewhat like a database that would help me in my research? Any information or link is greatly appreciated. THANKS!!
*
You can try: www.lawyerment.com and www.elawyer.com.my

Ideally legal research ought to be done either at cljlaw.com or lexisnexis.com/ap/auth but you would need an account for those.

Why not go to UM library and do your research there? They would have the accounts and you can use their PC to look up for authorities and precedents for your research.
TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(may1126 @ Jul 15 2011, 02:41 PM)
i call the lawyer firm request the note of charge, telling we r rushing doc, we r busy now, not free to give u the note. pls call next week. wat the balia lawyer firm. not professional service. as my expectation, money oldy received.
*
Put a letter in writing and demand it from them. Give them 7 days, failing which you will report to the A&S Disciplinary Board. That ought to jolt them.

QUOTE(may1126 @ Jul 15 2011, 02:41 PM)
this property is new. developer free SPA for purchaser, but i need to pay RM500 disbursement on SPA. By the way bcos of free SPA, developer fix me on panel lawyer. now i suspect the lawyer and developer have conflict of interest in the SPA transaction
*
There are no free lunches. Now you know why they act like that. The developer is paying their fees, not you. If you wanted to avoid any so-called conflict of interest, you should've appointed your own lawyer at your own cost.

QUOTE(may1126 @ Jul 15 2011, 02:41 PM)
For new property need DOA & PA ?
*
Only a DOA and PA in favour of your financier, if property without strata/indiv title.

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TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(cnr89 @ Jul 15 2011, 03:27 PM)
Hi  Dariofoo
I am stuck with the problem below. I hope you can give some advice?
Situation as below:
I purchase a house recently and I request bank to include legal fees into my loan amount.
The bank has included RM 10k of legal fees on top of my loan amount. (The bank officer told that this is just an auto generate amount, which will definitely higher than actual legal fees).
Then I appoint a lawyer to process my loans and others, after I get a quotation which legal fees after discount is RM6K (disbursement charges is around 3k).
After that they charge to bank RM9K (disbursement charges is around 4K).
Their promise in beginning is the difference RM3K (RM9K- RM6K) will refund to me.
Problem:
But now they informed that the refund to me is only the discount for the portion of charges for property sales & Purchase agreement. Which the difference for the disbursement cannot be refund to me.
My question is what is the purpose for the quotation to me?  Just try to cheat me by showing good price so that I will use their service?
The disbursement charges listed in my quotation is only RM3k. But can they charge RM4K to bank?
If can, the differences RM1K should refund to me. Right??  Or they no need refund to me.
The lawyer now insist only refund me the discount for the portion of charges for property sales & Purchase agreement. And inform that if I not happy with this can go report police.
I feel like I been cheated, as what they promised or inform is totally difference at the end.
What can I do on this case?
*
How do you know that they charged to the Bank 4k in disbursements? Do you have a copy of the note of charges/quotation sent to the bank? Or do you only have the note of charges/quotation sent to you?

Would need more info - something black and white - in order to advise you accordingly. Cakap mulut evidence is of no use.

Upload some docs and let's have a look.

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TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(cnr89 @ Jul 15 2011, 05:07 PM)
Hi Dario, thanks for your prompt reply

they send me the bill that charge to Bank.
so in my hand i have both copy of quotation, 1 is quotation to me, another 1 is to bank.
i do not know how to upload doc. furthermore i feel not that good to publish the quotation on the discussion page.
Is it convenience pm me you email address? then i email to you?

thanks in advance...
*
Sorry I do not do advice via PM. All QnA is to be posted here for the benefit of other forummers too.

You can black out the details of the firm, if you feel that it is not good to publish it, although there's nothing wrong in doing so.

Ball is in your court,mate smile.gif

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TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 05:51 PM

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QUOTE(may1126 @ Jul 15 2011, 04:45 PM)
Really thank you very very much to u sifu notworthy.gif

DOA & PA will charge how much? have fix rate on the calculation ?
*
I guess you didn't read the SRO in full, or maybe you didn't understand? No worries. The language can be a bit complex sometimes.

Since you've just mentioned just now that it is from developer, so the full scaled fees do not apply in your case.

Look at pages 13-15 of the SRO doc. THIRD SCHEDULE - In relation to Charges...and other security documents

At the bottom of page 14 - for transactions under the HDA - yours will fall under ©. So the lawyer can only charge you 70% of the scaled fees in relation to legal fees for the principal security doc, i.e. the facility agreement.

With regard to the subsidiary security doc, refer to page 14 - for each subsidiary doc - 10% of the scaled fees (the reduced scaled fee, not the full one) subject to min of RM200 and max of RM1,000.00.

So, there would be two separate legal fees in relation to DOA and PA respectively for your case.

Now you know the formula so you can do the math ya nod.gif

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This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jul 15 2011, 05:51 PM
TSdariofoo
post Jul 15 2011, 07:12 PM

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cnr89,

Difference in first quotation and second quotation is quite substantial. The disbursements in the second quotation are really marked up quite ridiculously, if I may say so.

This leads to the question - which is the correct quotation?

In fact, we can't call it quotation - it is a final note of charges. A quotation may be a draft.

So you need to ask the lawyer this.

Even if you put aside the discount issue and what not, the legal fees for the loan documentation for both notes are not the same, even though the fees are fixed, scaled fees.

For starters, write a formal letter of complaint first to the law firm. If there is no response, then write to the Bank.

Just wondering, did you ask for a discount from the lawyer? hmm.gif

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Jul 15 2011, 07:13 PM
TSdariofoo
post Jul 16 2011, 12:36 AM

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QUOTE(eurayle @ Jul 15 2011, 10:58 PM)
Need some advice.  Currently staying in a condo, and the upper unit's toilet is leaking.  Have reported to Mgmt office, & they have informed the owner of the upper unit.  But owner of upper unit refused to fix, because they said is developer's fault.  This problem has been fixed before during defect warranty period, but that was more than a year ago, so by now warranty period already lapsed.

Do you think it's wise if I offer to bear the full cost of fixing their toilet, or do I have other options?  Thanks in advance.
*
Legally speaking and from the facts which you have presented, it appears that the owner of the upper unit ('owner') is the one who ought to bear the cost of repairing the leak. Now that the defect liability period is over, the owner has no basis to blame the developer with regard to the leak. He has to bear his own cost to repair it.

Now, you have two options:

1. Talk to him to repair and bear the full cost of it. If he refuses, use the legal method. Appoint a lawyer to send him a legal demand. That might scare him and result in him complying. End of story. Or he might refuse and then you'd have to go to Court, etc etc.

2. Use diplomacy. Talk to him and see if he'll bear the cost of it in full. If he declines, see if you can afford to bear half, perhaps. Or even full, if you think that you can afford it. The point is to see if the money spent now will save you from spending even more when the problem worsens and it affects your unit to the point that you end up forking out more money to repair any future defects. Perhaps you can get a quotation and take it from there.

Good luck icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Jul 16 2011, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(cnr89 @ Jul 15 2011, 11:40 PM)

i request them a best price (you can said discount) before i appoint their service. Then they give me the quote RM 4691.14.

*
That's where the problem started. They take you for a ride when you ask for a discount.

QUOTE(cnr89 @ Jul 15 2011, 11:40 PM)

Do you means letter complaint to this lawyer firm? or complaint to lawyer bar council?
If to lawyer firm, they will not entertain me. They not reply my email, even i asked a simple thing like "when can refund the difference amount to me".
Then i call up talk to the boss, he said this is the only amount they can refund. If want then come to collect. If not satisfy can report to police. Also he said can face to face talk about this thing. So now i thinking to go the lawyer firm to get an explanation from him face to face. And at least get back the legal fees difference first.
What to write to bank actually? Anyway i don't think bank will layan me, since this is issue between the lawyer firm and me.
*
Complain to the firm in writing. State that the first invoice was xxx but the second invoice was xxxx amount. Ask for an explanation. Only when you're not happy with the explanation, do you complain to the Bank. It is your money anyway. The Bank incorporates the legal fees into the loan but at the end of the day, you're paying for it.

QUOTE(cnr89 @ Jul 15 2011, 11:40 PM)
Is it in the lawyer firm can simply put any charges of amount of the disbursement in the final notice to Bank? or they should follow the disbursement charges as what listed in the quotation to me?
I wanna know whether i am in the right side? If yes, then i can only confident fight for my right.
*
No they can't as you're paying the legal fees by virtue of the loan agreement. It is incorporated in your repayment. It's different if the Bank absorbs it. This is considered your money, so you have to right to find out and agree to the quotation submitted to the bank.

Go see the managing partner and see what info you can get. See what he explains to you. Remember that you don't hold all the aces as you had already asked for a discount and same was given to you. You can't expect to have your cake and eat it too right? However, the law firm can't give two quotes, and end up billing you higher than what was initially quoted to you.

After the meeting, do let me know how it goes. Good luck. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Jul 16 2011, 01:06 AM

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QUOTE(Seremban_2 @ Jul 15 2011, 08:28 PM)
Definately he/she ask for discount la.  vmad.gif  bruce.gif  bruce.gif bruce.gif  bruce.gif

Damn angry now.  mad.gif

Malaysia famous of asking discount. Come to my stall buy handphone sure ask discount. Must mark up like other stall and then give back them discount for entertaining purpose.  laugh.gif

Even too many developer, too many handphone shop, too many mamak stall, too many chinese restaurant, too many Real Estate Agent, alot of banker, alot of IT personal and etc.
*
Relax bro. After get heart attack how? laugh.gif
TSdariofoo
post Jul 16 2011, 11:41 AM

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QUOTE(irise.ufall @ Jul 16 2011, 09:03 AM)
Thanks Dariofoo.  biggrin.gif

I tried not to terminate them by sending them another email to answer my questions within 7 days but they just keep ignoring me.

I called to the Bar Council to seek for help. They advised me to lodge a complaint against them.

I am very surprised the SPA lawyer would spoil their name for the sake of helping the Vendor'.  shakehead.gif

Thanks anyway for your advices.

Cheersssss~
*
I think maybe your e-mail not garang enough. At the end, you ought to put - Please revert in writing within 7 days from this date failing which I will lodge an official complaint with the Advocate & Solicitors Disciplinary Board against you.

Good luck icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Jul 16 2011, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(eurayle @ Jul 16 2011, 09:46 AM)
I have tried to nego with the owner but they absolutely refused to share the cost.  If I bear the full cost and hire the repair contractor, would it be possible for them to blame me in the future for anything wrong with their toilet?
*
Then perhaps you need a side letter whereby they agree not to claim against you for any defects to their toilet following the repair work done. If they even refuse to co-operate to sign that letter, then you have to play hard ball since they're playing hard ball as well. Unless of course you want to be responsible for their toilet even after you foot the bill to repair their defects. Up to you. icon_rolleyes.gif
TSdariofoo
post Jul 17 2011, 06:36 PM

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itsybitsy:
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1. Yes you may proceed directly, provided that parties sign the SPA in the shortest possible time so as to avoid the vendor from 'shopping' for a higher price. A simple letter confirming the sale at xxx price would suffice, if you still need something in black and white. I think you can demand for it. Better be safe than sorry.

2. What is Borang I? A change of name form with the local authority?

3. It doesn't work that way. For all you know, those searches would not have been done anyway by the lawyer as it may be too soon. If you want to check if the searches are done new, and not 'recycled', you have the right to demand for a copy of it for your record purposes. You can check from the date to ascertain it.

4. Yes, as explained above.
TSdariofoo
post Jul 18 2011, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(itsybitsy @ Jul 17 2011, 11:43 PM)
Thanks for your advice Dario.

If I still need to negotiate with the lawyer on his charges, does it mean that the lawyer would not work on the S&P until we both agreed on the price?
*
Well, let's put it this way - once he has started work and incurred costs, you already lose the bargaining power as he's already the solicitor on record for you. If he then refuses to budge on the disbursements, you would find yourself on the losing side. If you opt to change solicitors then, you have to pay half of the legal fees and all disbursements incurred to him.

If you read the earlier posts in this thread, you will note that many forummers will try to get at least 2-3 quotes to get a fairer idea before making up their minds. Legal fees would be standard, but disbursements would differ from firm to firm. You can see the various quotations in this thread to get a fair idea as well.

Good luck icon_rolleyes.gif
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