Sorry all, have been busy. Will answer all by tmr afternoon, latest
Lawyers Corner, A one-stop centre on lawyers and queries
Lawyers Corner, A one-stop centre on lawyers and queries
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Aug 14 2011, 07:36 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
Sorry all, have been busy. Will answer all by tmr afternoon, latest
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Aug 15 2011, 07:47 AM
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Junior Member
188 posts Joined: Mar 2009 |
Hi dariofoo~
Last sat i just sign a booking letter with 2% pay to the agent. But today he ask me to sign another same booking letter which under same unit number but the selling price is 330k. The original price is 338k. Because he say that the owner want to run on the government tax. Is there any problem with this kind of things? Beside that will this effect the bank value for this property because we going to submit the booking letter when apply loan right? Really need your help and advice here... |
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Aug 15 2011, 12:10 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(soolee @ Aug 13 2011, 10:02 PM) Thanks! But whose lawyer is going to submit the MOT? as 1st MOT and 2nd MOT need to be submitted concurrently? You mean submitted for presentation for registration right? If so, yes it would be submitted concurrently.QUOTE(soolee @ Aug 13 2011, 10:02 PM) In this case, (I am the vendor), can I have my lawyer to do the 1st MOT and pass it to buyer's lawyer to submit both MOTs?Thank you very much for you help. Cash buyer? If so, then it goes to buyer's lawyer. If got loan it goes to the financier's solicitors to be submitted together with the charge.QUOTE(soolee @ Aug 13 2011, 10:02 PM) Cannot. Preparation of MOT is part of the scaled fees. As such, your SPA lawyer will be involved with the MOT. It cannot be separated. |
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Aug 15 2011, 12:12 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(aska01 @ Aug 13 2011, 11:26 PM) Hi dariafoo, Yes, you settle it first with the developer progressively, until all progressive payments which encompasses the differential sum is exhausted. Then you need to buzz your loan lawyer to ''resurrect" the sleeping file and do the necessary to advise the bank to do the drawdown of the loan sum. Recently I boought a new terrace house with 400k. I only loan 250k. The lawyer from the bank has issued me a letter to settle the balance of differential sum to developer immediately. Does it mean that I have to pay the differential sum now? At the same time, I also received a letter from developer to pay for the 10% after the completion of the foundation of said buildings. .. |
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Aug 15 2011, 12:17 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(me_mbh @ Aug 14 2011, 06:24 PM) understand that bankers usually source for their panel lawyers to prepare the loan agreement. for this, can we request the banker to nominate another one of their panel lawyers Not all banks require their full panel law firms to do it. Most banks allow the SPA lawyer to do the loan on an ad hoc basis, provided the firm qualifies the requirements as set by the bank, and each bank differs in policy. So you can first find out if your SPA lawyer qualifies to do ad hoc (and if he is interested to do it also). If they qualify, all is good. If can't, then check with the bank as to which firm they can recommend. You can ask for a list of their panel lawyers. You can take the list and ask around if anyone has used the services of a firm on the list, and if service is good, then go ahead.QUOTE(me_mbh @ Aug 14 2011, 06:24 PM) If you deem that the fees are too high you can:1) Write to Bar Council to complain and insist that the lawyer be paid only peanuts; and 2) Do the loan documentation on your own. |
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Aug 15 2011, 12:21 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(chee yat @ Aug 15 2011, 07:47 AM) Hi dariofoo~ No problem on your side as the price is lower, not higher. So the vendor has to secure the other 8k, probably with a supplementary letter. Just make sure that there is proper acknowledgement.Last sat i just sign a booking letter with 2% pay to the agent. But today he ask me to sign another same booking letter which under same unit number but the selling price is 330k. The original price is 338k. Because he say that the owner want to run on the government tax. Is there any problem with this kind of things? QUOTE(chee yat @ Aug 15 2011, 07:47 AM) Beside that will this effect the bank value for this property because we going to submit the booking letter when apply loan right? It won't affect the bank valuation as the bank would not look much at the purchase price.Even if you inflate it (as what some ppl do to try to get a higher loan), the bank will not give you a loan if it thinks that the valuation does not match the price. So in your case, wouldn't it be easier to get a valuation as the price is lower? In any event, the difference is only 8k so I doubt if it will matter much. |
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Aug 15 2011, 03:40 PM
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Junior Member
64 posts Joined: Apr 2007 From: KL |
QUOTE(dariofoo @ Aug 15 2011, 12:17 PM) If you deem that the fees are too high you can: you must be kidding right 1) Write to Bar Council to complain and insist that the lawyer be paid only peanuts; and 2) Do the loan documentation on your own. reason i ask is noticed that the cost for my bank loan fees are much higher than my SnP fees. now trying to work this out with the relevant banker. btw, thanks 2 |
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Aug 15 2011, 05:34 PM
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Junior Member
11 posts Joined: Apr 2009 |
can i write letter of demand myself ? or must let lawyer to issue it ? please advise, many thanks
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Aug 15 2011, 10:25 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(me_mbh @ Aug 15 2011, 03:40 PM) reason i ask is noticed that the cost for my bank loan fees are much higher than my SnP fees. now trying to work this out with the relevant banker. Scaled fees are the same. Probably it's stamp duty on the loan doc which makes it higher. If you're buying from developer and there's no indiv title then stamp duty doesn't kick in yet.If you're in doubt why not insist for a note of charges and compare breakdown of fees? Nothing complicated. It's your right to do so. |
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Aug 15 2011, 10:27 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(quinnie @ Aug 15 2011, 05:34 PM) You can write it yourself. It is not compulsory for you to appoint a lawyer to issue it. But make sure that you write it properly, as an improper demand would be a bane more than a boon in legal proceedings in Court, should the matter drag on to that stage. |
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Aug 16 2011, 04:38 PM
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Junior Member
22 posts Joined: Aug 2008 |
QUOTE(dariofoo @ Aug 13 2011, 04:01 AM) Ok now the facts are clearer, although not 100%. So the Nemo dat quod non habet - "he cannot give what he does not have" - principle will be applicable in your favour as the developer cannot purport to sell it to another person (the neighbour) when it has sold it off to the vendor in the first place. So the purported sale to the neighbour would be null and void and of no effect. So my earlier advice would not be 100% applicable, in light of the factual matrix which you have just stated above. Dear Dario,It's breach of contract by the vendor against you. It is not fraud though. Don't merely use the word fraud as it is a bigger word than you think. It is not easy to prove fraud and in this case, from the basic facts stated, I doubt if the vendor is a party to fraud. I'm sure he is as ignorant about the purported subsequent sale as you are. As explained earlier - you sue the vendor for breach of contract - the vendor will subsequently bring the developer in as a third party, and perhaps the neighbour as well. It's messy, and would cost you quite a bit of money in legal fees as well. Whether or not you can recoup the legal fees from the other parties in this case once it's over is another issue. If you're going to reside in the unit after this, bear in mind that going on the warpath against the developer and your neighbour, albeit indirectly, may not be the wisest option. However, if you are going strictly on the principle that you ought to get what you paid and contracted for, then by all means go all out to get that parking lot assigned in your favour. From the facts presented herein, you do have a good case. The neighbour's remedy would be to sue the developer for damages only, as he can't get back the parking lot. I'm going to pre-empt you at this stage before you ask me and inform you that legal fees for litigation (court) matters are subjective and differs from firm to firm. There's no market rate, usual rate, normal rate, etc etc etc. So if you want to find out, you need to see a litigation lawyer, set out your facts, and ask for a quotation for legal fees. I wish you all the best. Thanks again for your reply. Actually, I have no intention of "wrestling" the car park A from my new neighbour, that would not be fair to him as mentioned earlier in my post, he purchased his condo 3 years ago. I have checked and the purchase dates show neighbour purchased condo + parking lot A in 2008 and my vendor in 2009. So in all fairness, parking lot A does belong to my neighbour. I am willing to accept the replacement parking lot if the developer/ vendor will compensate the damages. I know that for many, I may sound petty, haggling over a simple parking lot. But then again, I stand for what I have purchased knowingly. The parking lot location is part of my consideration for the purchase, as I have elderly and a family member with knee conditions. The replacement lot (B) is not only further away, it can only be accessible after a flight of stairs. Can anyone guarantee the absolute safety of any condo/ parking areas at all times? With the entrance further away, I will always have a niggling fear for my family's safety. If everyone's considerations/ requirements are the same, surely there will no longer be any need for lawyers? I've written to the developer in black/white, requesting for a reply to this matter. My letter to them is very simple, I stated the facts that they have sold the same parking lot to 2 different owners and I requested that they reply formally with a suitable solution. Today, their sales agent called and say that his boss is not willing to reply to my letter in black/ white and will only proceed to do up a supplementary agreement for the parking lot B. With them hedging like this, I am not very comfortable and confident with their methods. By the way, I also discovered that my vendor is actually the construction company for the developer. And the developer contra-ed this unit and a few other units to my vendor as payment. And the developer had informed me that they have submitted the master title to the government to issue individual titles. Please advise how I should proceed with this. How can I quantify the damages to claim? Thanks again. |
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Aug 16 2011, 04:58 PM
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Junior Member
350 posts Joined: Sep 2008 From: tyrsflgiugiug |
hi can any one advice me on the step by step process from 1st disbursement to full and final disbursement ? I'm facing an issue here where by the completion date would be end of this month but its seems that some how it was stuck now after the1st disbursement. i do not intend to pay for the penalty as its not my fault at all.. its a classic case of who done it and bank,lawyers are blaming one another. really need help on the process in order for me to ensure the entire process is moving at speed.
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Aug 16 2011, 08:53 PM
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Junior Member
233 posts Joined: Jun 2007 |
hi Dario,
need your help again. I'm in the midst of buying a new freehold landed property and about to sign the s&p. Currently that parcel of land is still under master title. So my question is: 1. do i need to pay the same amount of legal fee and stamp duty as those units which already have individual title? 2. do i need to pay stamp duty and legal fee again when the individual title is out? (it'l like paying twice for the same property, once under master title and once under individual title) 3. is it ok to have only master title in the loan agreement? Thanks in advance! This post has been edited by heuristic: Aug 16 2011, 08:53 PM |
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Aug 16 2011, 10:14 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(lokideangelus @ Aug 16 2011, 04:58 PM) hi can any one advice me on the step by step process from 1st disbursement to full and final disbursement ? I'm facing an issue here where by the completion date would be end of this month but its seems that some how it was stuck now after the1st disbursement. i do not intend to pay for the penalty as its not my fault at all.. its a classic case of who done it and bank,lawyers are blaming one another. really need help on the process in order for me to ensure the entire process is moving at speed. With or without title? |
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Aug 16 2011, 10:23 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(rachelt26 @ Aug 16 2011, 04:38 PM) That's the thing - you can't quantify the damages as you did not suffer any actual loss. You need to prove your loss. If there was no parking lot available and you had to rent out another owner's lot, then yes, you can quantify the damage suffered, i.e. rental x number of days = loss suffered.In this case another lot was offered to you, albeit at a further distance from the lift. What loss have you suffered which can be quantified? Hope you get my point. You can get a lawyer (and i'm sure there's a lot out there) who can promise you the world and convince you that you can get lots of damages, but at the end of the day, I'm of the opinion that if you can't quantify it, you can't claim for it. Inconvenience, extra walking distance, anger, frust, stress, mental anguish, distress etc etc is all just hogwash and no judge will entertain a claim for that. As such, your primary claim would have to be for specific performance, i.e. to assert for ownership of lot A. Damages would only be a remedy if specific performance is impossible. That is all the opinion I can render. If you wish to go further in this you'd better seek proper legal advice from an actual lawyer All the best. Do keep us updated if you proceed further in this case. |
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Aug 16 2011, 10:27 PM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(heuristic @ Aug 16 2011, 08:53 PM) hi Dario, 1. Yes, same scaled legal fees.need your help again. I'm in the midst of buying a new freehold landed property and about to sign the s&p. Currently that parcel of land is still under master title. So my question is: 1. do i need to pay the same amount of legal fee and stamp duty as those units which already have individual title? 2. do i need to pay stamp duty and legal fee again when the individual title is out? (it'l like paying twice for the same property, once under master title and once under individual title) 3. is it ok to have only master title in the loan agreement? Thanks in advance! 2. At the moment, you only pay stamp duty upon your loan doc. You don't pay stamp duty upon the MOT as there's no MOT at the moment. So there's no stamp duty on the SPA side, except nominal stamping fees for the SPA, though. 3. Yes, of course. In any event, it's for the bank to decide, not you. |
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Aug 16 2011, 10:36 PM
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Junior Member
233 posts Joined: Jun 2007 |
QUOTE(dariofoo @ Aug 16 2011, 10:27 PM) 1. Yes, same scaled legal fees. for no1, meaning its the same scaled fee without mot right? for no2, how much is the nominal stamping fee for spa for property @RM280k?2. At the moment, you only pay stamp duty upon your loan doc. You don't pay stamp duty upon the MOT as there's no MOT at the moment. So there's no stamp duty on the SPA side, except nominal stamping fees for the SPA, though. 3. Yes, of course. In any event, it's for the bank to decide, not you. the bank had offered me loan with the master title in the offer letter.. do i need to change the information in the loan agreement when i have my individual title? Thanks |
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Aug 17 2011, 01:02 AM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(heuristic @ Aug 16 2011, 10:36 PM) for no1, meaning its the same scaled fee without mot right? for no2, how much is the nominal stamping fee for spa for property @RM280k? Nominal stamp duty means RM10/copy. Sames goes for duplicate copies of your loan agreement, DOA and PA. All attracts RM10 nominal stamp duty.the bank had offered me loan with the master title in the offer letter.. do i need to change the information in the loan agreement when i have my individual title? Thanks When individual title is out then you would have to execute the MOT and at the same time execute a Charge in favour of the bank. At that stage the DOA and PA would have no further effect. |
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Aug 17 2011, 09:45 AM
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Junior Member
350 posts Joined: Sep 2008 From: tyrsflgiugiug |
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Aug 17 2011, 11:43 AM
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Elite
2,795 posts Joined: Aug 2010 From: District 9 |
QUOTE(lokideangelus @ Aug 17 2011, 09:45 AM) * you did not state if the vendor has a lawyer, if vendor does not have a lawyer, then anything which mentions vendor's lawyer will be done by purc lawyer.* you also did not state if purc has separate loan lawyer, so if there's no loan lawyer, then anything which mentions loan lawyer will be done by purc lawyer. Upon release of first drawdown - to redeem vendor's loan - Vendor's lawyer will forward cheque together with deed of receipt and reassignment (RnR) to bank - Bank executes deed of RnR and returns all original docs to vendor's lawyer - Once the RnR is dated, the Purc's lawyer will date the DOA (deed of assignment) and send it to LHDN for adjudication - Once DOA has been assessed Purc's law . Purc sol sends DOA for adjudication followed by stamping. - Purc sol serves Notice of Assignment to developer and get it endorsed. - Purc sol sends DOA and all ori docs to loan sol - Loan sol advises for drawdown of balance loan sum . Payment of loan sum/balance purchase price to vendor and hand over of vacant possession. If there's a delay it could be at the adjudication of DOA by purc's side. Normally that is the case. Just get a copy of all correspondence between the parties - lawyers, banks, LHDN and you can see the turnover time and locate the delay. |
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