Hi dariofoo,

This is my first time purchasing a house and there are some questions in my head which still unclear. I read from forums that there are so many fees involved and cost few thousands, so I am asking how much I have to prepare and pay. I've asked the developer's lawyer but it seems like I am not clear as well.



The property price is RM390k and free legal fees by developer.

I am taking loan of RM255k(just loan withour any agreement/lawyer fees , the lawyer is from the developer)

So I asked the lawyer how much and what other fees I have to pay excluding the deposit to developer.

And these are the reply from the lawyer



So at the moment until I am going to sign SPA & Loan Agreement, I only have to pay RM390? Is there anything else?

Looks like there's a quotation sent to you stating the legal fees and disbusements on loan documentation. You might want to check on that. RM390 is merely disbursements for SPA.

Dear all sifuss, i wish to get some help and advise.
My brother bought a house about 7 years back.It's a condominium in klang. The unit is not ready yet until today, which is overdue for 4 years already. So wondering what should my brother do for his scenario?

thanks in advance for the advice.

n00b here..
MOT (Memorandum of Transfer) is payable to lawyer or to the land authority? Just would like to understand what MOT is about.
Also, MOT for a property of 700k is 15k, correct? is this called stamp duty as well?

I need an advice here.In 2009, i'm purchase a 2nd hand car. From the advertisement in one of famous motor magazines which stated "Accident Free" I go to visit the car dealer and he also claim that the car "accident free". starting from 2010, until July 2011 i'm not using the car because working oversea.

When come back, i have to sent the car for puspakom inspection for rodtax expired more than a year. Suddenly, puspakom found that the car got cut n join mark in rear side. I go back to the car dealer to check with them to confirm if it is cut n join car...they denied that and showing me the letter from JPJ which stated the approval to fix the whole rear car due to heavy accident on 2006.

I'm arguing with the car dealer bos why he never show me the document on the time I want to purchase it. He said, no need because Puspakom inspection on 2006 (changing part) and 2009 (Change owner) already said the car is qualified on the road after repair...However, I feel cheated because why they do not stated the actual condition on the car earlier some more they even cheat by said it is accident free. Now I've collect all relevant document need for further action such as the advertisement page, Puspakom latest inspection cert. The previous owner geran which stated the repair job made and new geran which not stated the repair job.

I already done some reasearh on act of law related. It SOGA act. The misinterpration when selling the goods. try to hide something the truth about the goods. Hope someone here can give an advice please..how should I do to take an action againts the used car dealer.

I have a situation. In December 2009, I have been renting an office. The contract signed is for one year. Then, after 1 year, I'm not given a new contract and the contract expired on December 2010. Then, I just do as usual, I pay my rent and keep rentals as usual.
And now, in July 2011, I want to move out, she asked me to give her three months notice if I want to move out. The problem is, I've never seen such terms in the contract before. Related terms contained in the contract is:

If the tenant shall be desirous of continuing this tenancy hereby created at the expiration of the term hereby granted to the tenant shall, prior to its expiry, give THREE (3) months notice in writing to the landlord and provided the tenant shall have paid the rentals and performed the several stipulations of this tenancy the landlord shall let the demised premises to the tenant for a further term and at such rental as stated in Section 10 of the First Schedule hereto as from and commencing one (1) day after the expiration of this tenancy and upon the same stipulations as are hereby contained save and except the provision for renewal.

So, she refused to return the deposit even though the contract has expired. And for your information, during the tenancy, the owner has charges me around RM200/month as interest for a late payment of rent. I've never seen such terms in the contract before, can she do that?

For reference, please refer to the terms related to the deposit, below:

RENTAL & SECURITY DEPOSIT:
Upon execution of this Agreement, the tenant shall pay to the landlord the sum as stated in Section 8 of the First Schedule hereto as deposit and security for the due observance and perfomance by the tenant of the terms and conditions of the tenancy hereby created. The said sum(s) shall be refunded by the landlord to the tenant without interest at the expiration of this tenancy provided that if the tenant is in breach of any of the provisions of this Agreement on the part of the tenant to be observed and performed, the landlord shall be entitled to deduct from such deposit such sum as is found due to landlord as a result of such such breach except in the event of the tenant terminating this tenancy during the continuance thereof, the landlord shall be entitled to forfeit the said deposit. The said deposit shall not be treated as payment of the rental by the tenant.

ELECTRICITY & WATER DEPOSIT:
The tenant shall further pay to the landlord upon execution of this agreement a sum as stated in Section 9 of the First Schedule hereto as deposit for water and electricity charges that may be due or payable by the tenant to the relevant government authorities or corporation for water and electricity supplied to or used at the demised premises during the period of this tenancy provided that the amount of the said deposit may be proportionately increased by the landlord in the event that the water and electricity deposits payable in respect of the demised premises shall be increased by the relevant governmental authorities or corporation. The said utilities deposit shall under no circumstances be treated as or deemed to be payment of the reserved rent and it shall be refunded by the landlord to the tenant without interest nor obligation to invest at the expiry of this tenancy provided that the tenant shall have paid and discharged all outstanding water and electricity charges up to the date it vacates the demised premises.

I am not quite understand with the terms, I just want to make sure on what action can I take to get my deposit back. Do I need to give her three months notice although there is no mention in the contract and even though the contract has expired? And can I take back the interest on a late payment that I already pay her?

Please advised.

First things first, go look for the developer and find out what's going on. See what the developer has to explain first. Well, assuming that the developer is still around and not yet wound up

MOT is the document itself. What you pay is stamp duty upon the MOT. MOT is the document whereby the vendor agrees to transfer, and the purchaser agrees to accept the transfer of the property in question. Stamp duty is paid to LHDN, but is deposited with the lawyer as stakeholder first. The lawyer will then pay LHDN on the purchaser's behalf once LHDN has assessed the value of the property and fixed the stamp duty payable.

The stamp duty payable upon the MOT for a property transacted at RM700K is 15k (estimate). If LHDN assesses it to be of higher value, then the stamp duty would be upon the higher value, and not longer based on 700k.

Interesting.

Now, first things first, you can't sue based on an advertisement. An ad is just an 'invitation to treat' and is not an offer to you. The thing is, when you booked the car, was there any booking form or document where the dealer represented to you that the car was accident-free? Or was it just a verbal representation that the car is accident-free? If verbal, then it is your word against his word.

The Sale of Goods Act states that the dealer must sell to you a car which is in merchantable quality. If there has been a prior accident, etc, he must inform same to you. However, what is there to stop him from now saying that he already informed it to you, and that you nonetheless agreed to go ahead with the purchase? Once again, it is your word against his word on this matter.

Furthermore, the rule of caveat emptor also applies. This means, "Let the buyer beware". As such, the argument by the dealer is that you had inspected the car and was satisfied with its condition. He will also now turn around and say that he has shown you the old geran and the Puspakom report of 2006 and yet, you still proceeded to buy the car.

Again, your complaint against them is 2 years after you had purchased the car. So they can also argue that you had waived your rights to complaint and that you had acquiscieced to the condition of the car. That is another point against you.

Unless you have something in writing by them (besides the ad) where they represented to you that the car was accident-free - it looks like it is an uphill task for you to prove misrep against them.

Cases like yours is the exact reason why the Govt has implemented many amendments to the Hire Purchase Act - one of which it that it is the duty of the seller to send the car for a Puspakom check before the sale can be done.

You can opt to see a lawyer. Am advising you without the benefit of perusing documents so perhaps a lawyer can give you a more personalised and accurate advice.

rekaniaga:


There's no tenancy by contract as the contract has lapsed. Once it has expired and it is not renewed by a supplementary agreement, it lapsed and is of no effect. You can't refer to its terms anymore. Your tenancy is a monthly tenancy, and it is renewed once a month everytime you pay the rent, and she accepts payment without protest. Such monthly tenancies are terminable with one month's notice by either party.

So she can't refer to the 3months notice period clause in the contract.

With regard to the RM200 penalty, how did she charge you? Did she inform you to pay extra for that month and you agreed, or is she now doing a contra with the deposit? I'm not clear on that.

You now need to claim back your deposit. She has no right to hold it back. You can either draft a letter to demand it from her, or you can see a lawyer to get a formal letter of demand sent out. Don't do things like holding back the keys, etc. That has nothing to do with the deposit. The act of you holding the keys is a sign of intent to carry on with the rental, and she can use it against you.

Hi Dariofoo, thanks for your explaination.

About the RM200 penalty, the situation is like this. Lets say, for June, I pay rent on the 10th june, suppose I need to pay it before 7 June. And then, she call me and ask me to pay more 200 as a penalty or she will include it on the next month bill. I just pay the penalty as she want.

And about the tenancy deposit. Do yoou have any sample letter that I can write and show her? I already give her the key on June and she refuse to let me out with the deposit. She said she has right to sue me coz I did'nt send her any letter/notice.

Hi Dario,

My situation is like this, I'm selling a property for 590k. The SPA fees a legal firm quoted me is about RM6.8k, I asked for best price he only deduct RM900 (have 3 owners, RM300 X 3) as for CKHT search they will bear themselves so the whole thing price came down to RM5.9k. Is it a good bargain or should I ask for further discount?

I get to know that the Purchaser's lawyer will draft the SPA and my lawyer will wait for the draft so by then he will check it before we sign. I understands that this is a normal procedure, just felt like abit not worth the amount I'll need to pay for. Is the Purchaser paying for about the same?

And I've waited for 2 weeks in exact since the offer letter had been signed. From the Real Estate agent, he said the SPA and the remaining % for deposit should be done within 14days from the day we signed the offer letter. I know we shouldnt be too harsh just wondering what should we do if we wait for another few more days and still no news?

Please advice me I have a blur face people just tend to eat me up haha! Thank you very de much!

Hi Dario,

I had paid the deposit 3% for a condo and later only found out the developer has gone bankruptcy. For title transfer, my lawyer and current owner lawyer have decided to deal straight with insolvency department. It's a freehold and I am the 2nd buyer. Loan has been approved one and a half month ago. No S&P signed yet, I was told it is due to lack of documentation.

Question(s):
1) can we proceed to S&P first before the title transfer?
2) any idea how long does it take to respond from insolvency department?
3) after insolvency department, will the process different and consume more time to proceed to S&P?
4) will there be any penalty/ interest charge from bank if we didn't execute the loan for too long?
5) any penalty for late S&P agreement since it is not my problem?

At the same time, I am having communication delay/error with the current owner. The agent told that current owner refuse to negotiate with me directly (might be the agent doesn't want to). The agent pass the message that, the owner allowed me to shift in before S&P agreement (with T&C in black & white), but when I request permission to direct deal with current owner, the agent replied: "current owner said anything pass to his lawyer." I do not expect anything now, I just want to speed up the process, seal the deal and shift my butt to the house.

Please advise.

Thanks a million in advance

This post has been edited by wtm0325: Jul 29 2011, 10:48 PM

You shouldn't have done that. That means you've agreed to a variation of the agreement to incorporate a clause imposing a penalty. A variation to the terms of the contract can be by way of conduct as well. How do you want to go around it? Do you want to term it as advance payment? How many months 'penalty' did you pay? Is it a substantial amount?


You go back on the terms of the agreement. Don't be confused. Earlier I said that you can't refer back to the agreement. However, those terms are not applicable as it takes effect throughout the existence of the tenancy. The terms in relation to return of deposit only takes effect upon the expiration of the tenancy, so it is still applicable in these circumstances.

You just draft a simple letter referring to the clause and demand the deposit back. Keep it simple. If still no news then you need to see a lawyer to draft out a legal letter of demand (LOD). Alternatively, you can see a lawyer now itself to send out a LOD without the need for you to send one. You have a good case, don't worry. Surely the landlady will return the deposit to you by hook or by crook. She just needs a bit of 'persuasion'.

Good luck ya.

We don't talk about discounts in this thread. As you know it is illegal. So, whatever discount is between you and your lawyer.

Anyone who appoints a lawyer to act on his behalf pays full scaled fees. Disbursements will vary between you and purchaser. Of course purchaser pays more in total as stamp duty is involved. If you feel that you don't need to be represented, and that what you're paying is "not worth the amount", then get rid of the lawyer and appoint the purchaser's lawyer to do the redemption and file CKHT forms for you. Easy peasy. The choice is always up to you whether you want to appoint your own lawyer or not.

If you want to know the pros and cons of appointing your own lawyer vs tumpang purchaser's lawyer - go read the first few pages of this thread. There was a discussion to that effect.

You want to read horror stories of unrepresented vendors who alleged that they got "taken for a ride" by ourchaser's lawyers?
There's so many in this thread, I've lost count. Read a few and perhaps then, you'd be enlightened.

Sometimes it's 14 working days. Might want to check, It doesn't mean that it must be signed in 14 days. If the first draft is e-mailed by the purchaser's lawyer to your lawyer within the 14 days and parties start communicating back and forth, the 14 days period is deemed to be extended by virtue of the solicitors' conduct. It is a common understanding in that regard. If you feel that you need to push the lawyer to speed things up, go ahead. You're paying fees anyway. At the very least the lawyer ought to explain the delay.

1) Sure
2) Not sure. Depends on how complete the file on the developer which they have with them. Some developers leave things in a mess, so it takes longer. Some developers keep good records, so the letter of confirmation from the Official Receiver can be issued faster. See your luck and how good your lawyer can follow up.

3) Sorry I don't understand the question.

4) Execute the letter of offer or the loan doc? I'm sure you haven't executed the letter of offer yet right? You haven't even signed the SPA.

5) I think from the way it is , there is a tacit understanding between the lawyers to sort out outstanding issues and queries with the Official Receiver before signing the SPA. As such, there ought to be no penalty at this moment. The penalty you're taking about only takes effect once time starts to run and the transaction extends beyond the 3 month period, and goes into the extended completion period (extra 1 month).

In your case, time would not start to run until the OR confirms things with your lawyer.

With regard to your issues with the vendor, you must note and respect the fact that the vendor is represented by an agent as well as a lawyer. You are represented by a lawyer as well. Instruct your lawyer accordingly and let both parties sort it out with each other professionally in writing. What the agent said is correct. Everything must be dealt with by the vendor's lawyer, who has been appointed and paid for by the vendor. If you call the vendor directly, you are bypassing not only his lawyer, but yours, and that can lead to unpleasant situations, i.e. miscommunication and further conflict arising therefrom.

Buying a property without title where a developer has already been wound up can be a long, draggy affair. Best you sit down with your lawyer and get a full explanation from A to Z with regard to procedure and what to expect. Do not expect thing to be easy and smooth. Patience shall truly be a virtue in your case.

Opps, understand that

Yes, got to agree with that. Risk is definitely high without my own lawyer, just trying to squeeze more to benefit my part

Yes sir, just wondering if I pushed my lawyer will he feel offended. Ok i'll just give him a call asking how's the process on monday then haha.

Thank you for your lovely advice bro. Really appreciate it!

Push and squeeze as much as you like as you're paying for it.

Haha. You're welcome. If any more queries crop up do drop by.

1) OK. But my lawyer told me not to sign S&P until everything is done, I don't understand.
2) Roger.
3) Haha the answer is in my question. Forget about it.
4) I have signed the letter of offer from bank, so ada penalty kah?
5) Roger.

Thanks Dario. I was expecting it to be easy and smooth. Now my room rental until mid of august, have to sleep tepi jalan oledi

Penalty if you cancel - there might be some processing fees which you have to pay. If you have doubts, call the banker and inform them not to appoint a solicitor to do your loan doc yet. Let your file sit at the bank first. Once they appoint a lawyer, the loan doc process will start and if you back out then, you would need to pay legal fees to the lawyer for work done.

So, keep updating your banker.


You can sleep at the back of your Alza