To Blizzard, if you are having so many players complaining about reapers might as well remove them from the game instead of putting so many new noob regulations.

Plus, look at the Terran win rate in all the leagues. Terran Overpowered? You must be kidding me.

Source: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/761331

Quote Blizzard:

Here are a few of the changes we currently have planned:

· We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game.

· Fungal Growth will now prevent Blink, which will give zerg a way to stop endlessly Blinking stalkers which can be very challenging to deal with in large numbers.

· The Barracks are going to require a Supply Depot, which will impact a lot of early terran reaper pushes.

· The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.

· We're making a number of increases to the health of zerg buildings, which will make the very vulnerable zerg technology structures more resistant to raids. We don’t expect these hit point changes to have a super significant impact on the game, but the current numbers felt way too low.

I bet u use terran most of the time

You don't have to bet that, you can see from my sig. I bet you use Zerg most of the times.

what if i tell you r wrong ? I do terran the most !! cause i did the campaign so many times to get the all the campaign achievements !! and there are no zerg campaign yet =P

This post has been edited by narf03: Oct 8 2010, 01:02 AM

Well if you have problem differentiating between single player and multiplayer this thread might not be for you. I think those changes will not affect single player campaign mode.

This post has been edited by westley0214: Oct 8 2010, 01:04 AM

· Fungal Growth will now prevent Blink, which will give zerg a way to stop endlessly Blinking stalkers which can be very challenging to deal with in large numbers.

Im having no problems with stalkers and now this
Seriously?

Blink cooldown is kinda long =.=

Agreed. Blink cooldown kinda long and hard to be micro-ed well for an average player.

That statement only specify a way for Zerg players to stop "endlessly blinking" stalkers. Sounds like Terran players will never have to deal with this.

Roaches upgrade are definitely most welcome. It'll at least give roaches more usefulness towards the mid-late game. (for me at least, right now the range is so short they might as well be melee)

Yeah, especially since they are normally used as Zerg's early counter vs. Reapers' harass.

I just wished that Blizzard stops all those meaningless effort to nerf Reapers again and again and totally remove them from game to give all parties less headache.

lol... thats y we should train all the 3 races because this shit will always happen.. noob players will always whine...

Reaper proxy rush is nothing if you scouted, expected and mirco well

Reaper requires a factory is not necessary, requires a depot rax is kinda joke. I think overall Terran is good enough at current point, i think by just upgrading Zerg is enough, no need to nerf other races. Especially early def against air / zlot pressure / mmm timing push.

P/S: imma random player

depot before rax is nt that much a change...
9supply 11rax might delay it like 3 sec?

Ya not much a change, just need to upgrade zerg...need not to nerf other races...

just upgrade:

- Roach able to speed upgrade at tier 1
- Spore crawler doesn't require evo chamber - since zerg only have queens to def against air during tier 1
- Upgrade health of zerg buildings (already mentioned by blizzard)
- Reduce infestors size = =" their size is enormously huge and easily snipe targeted

Just my 2 cents

Zerg's buildings health upgrade is reasonable, since they regenerate very slowly after being attacked, no repair mechanism like Terran (except Queen's heal which requires energy), and don't have ultrafast shield regenerating rate like Toss'.

Gonna have to drop my 9Rax, 10 depot build though. And I riked the early OC. =/

Because Transfusion does not exist amirite?

Speaking of early harass of zerg buildings, transfusion consume loads of energy, early game queens will purely just inject and spawn creep, thus use of transfusion is not much able to during early games.

that's y u get more queen since they can defend, keep ur creep spread healthy and u can move them to ur expo later on =p

I lol'ed at that statement.

Seriously, when that all air units in SC2 are Tier 3 ? If you only have Queens to defend and stuck only at Tier 1, when your opponent comes at you with Tier 3 units, then there is seriously something very wrong with your build order and/or your scouting failed terribad. Buffing/Nerfing of units shouldnt come at the cost of bad gameplay.

If you're gonna suggest that the Evolution Chamber requirement be removed, might as well remove the requirement of an Engineering Bay for the Missile Turret ?

hmm actually what i mean is, zerg has very less def against early air especially the opponent rushes VR or Banshee, the zerg can fend off just by using queen. There goes Terran which actually can mass marines / toss canon shoots both air and ground...a tier 2 muta isnt that efficient up against these tier (?) value for mineral yet effective units

haha all actually just my pov so no hard feelings ya just my lima sen ringgit

omg why not swap hydralisks with Roach for T2 tech?
So we can hydralisk rush at T1 and pwn.

supply then barrack looks dumb to me..

Extra range in roach? I would prefer speed in roaches first.. Although both being a welcome addition.

Blink is super annoying in a hands of pro... Well fungal growth makes infestor play much more important now, almost like a must have I guess.. but it's not to that extend blink micro cannot be counter

I wan to build Missle T after I build my barrack

all the changes aside, im actually surprise at how they are trying to nerf reapers into near uselessness. might as well remove them already if they are gonna continue the trend of nerfing reapers

i never use reaper for almost 1 month already haha

Evo chamber to build AA static defense is in fact similar requirement for Terran and Protoss too (Terran need EB for Turret, Protoss need Forge for cannons, and both EB and Forge provide infantry upgrades, same as evo chamber)

corruptor need moe hp

Kinda supprise with the w/l race vs race statistic, protoss seems op while im having hard time againts mmmg ball. Guess is my own prob T.T

Agreed, I'm all in for corrupters with big anime eyes and go "uguu"

IINM they have 4 or 8 eyes, and said eyes going moe and uguu? dontknowifwant.jpg

=edit=
okay...


no eyes.

i mistaken corruptors with mutalisks. and for mutalisks...


10 eyes it seems. lol

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Oct 8 2010, 11:33 AM

Believe me, eventually they will put those requirements: Reaper requires Starport to build, speed upgrade requires Fusion Core, another requirement is "No reaper" like Toss' "No Mothership", which limits one reaper at one time.

In fact, in most of the expert TvP replays that I've watched, Toss players always have an upper hand over Terran's. It will always come down to HT vs. Ghost in mid to late game, and for some reasons, Toss players always shoot their storm more accurately than Terran's EMP Round.

are reaper really tht powerful? I never like to use them because their armor are make from tissue paper

guess you missed out GSL

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Added on October 8, 2010, 11:41 amlold

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Oct 8 2010, 11:41 AM

altho i hate T big time but i still think that depo first then rax is ridiculous..

roaches speed and range are useful indeed

baneling need ultralisk armor.its useless now except for carpet bombing

ahah, i like this.

anyway he SD before Barracks thing is just pointless. that makes it exactly like pylon before gateway already.

for players who have been doing 9 / 10 SD then it's no big deal.

and i don't see how much it affects reaper push.

The reaper speed upgrade will require the Factory, which is meant to weaken a lot of the early terran reaper attacks that dominate so many matches, especially in team games.

that one is funny though. factory before get infantry upgrade.

why not? Protoss have to go Pylon first then gateway, while zerg have to spend 250 minerals for a spawning pool (drone inclusive)

ahhh i see you got promoted to gold league already, congratulations.

reapers are nice actually but weaker armor means require monitoring, for newbie like me - not so good to use. till now i also never build reaper.

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Added on October 8, 2010, 11:50 amprotoss has chrono boost while zerg have queen larvae spawn.

reaper rush is typically 9/10/11 rax FIRST then gas THEN depot

yes i know. my thinking was along the lines of this

what's your estimation on the delay?

reapers are very dangerous for protoss...but having them removed isn't the answer. ppl just have to scout and it will be really a short game for the terran

ehh come to think of it ur kinda rite too..how come i didnt realize that..

anyway i play T sumtimes and 10 out of 10 match i did the depo first b4 rax

so all in all i dont think its much of a big deal after all

hurts those quaz mentioned the most........

the rest who build SD first - the change is no big deal.

These talks are being proposed for the next patch?

i think going depot first then rax is more economical.. i usually go 10 depot, 11 racks, 12 refinery and keep producing scvs.. when i produce my first reaper.. its a lil bit slower estimated 25 secs or more.. but my economy is so much better.

hence thats why i said, if reapers are gonna be turned useless, why bother having the unit at all? rofl

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Added on October 8, 2010, 12:15 pmblizz's "heads up" on what *MAY* happen on next patch

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Oct 8 2010, 12:15 PM

Actually what Blizz is planning to do is almost like removing them already. It defeats the purpose / usefulness of reaper, which is to harass opponent's economy early game. I guess nobody will build a reaper from mid game onwards. Jumping up and down from cliffs at mid game or late game is rare.

its still useful, but as game progresses, countering reapers are easier with tougher units that deals more damage/ranged and the fact that it does not return as much benefits as early game would (50/50 min/gas and a long 45? second slot on your rax with tech lab, which a marauder would be typically more beneficial)

I just hope they add anti air unit for T1 zerg . terran got marrin . protos got stalker . what zerg got . queen? can queen move all the way to attack ??? .

150 mineral per unit ohhh.

Air units are t2 no? Go for muta

Unless u wanna micro and make a creep highway to the opponent base

i gonna miss mass reaper in 3v3 and 4v4...
its like the best trolling unit for me...
move in, 2shotting nexus/oc/hatch then /wave...

do note lower ranks toss are owning...
in those league u can jz 4gate the sht out of noobs and still win...
look at the diamond part, terran > toss for TvP...
showed u the drastic change from the 60% in the lower leagues...

as i said, u can 4 gate urself into diamond wit ease (or jz VR as nub terrans cant handle 1 VR lol)

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Added on October 8, 2010, 4:15 pmu clearly didnt watch GSL where terran open with early marauders and toss just fall and die being too far behind to do anything...
no toss in GSL top4 as well (godly tester got pwned by rainbow's terran)

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Added on October 8, 2010, 4:18 pmhmmm as i said 3sec at most...
depending on ur placement...

for me i usually go 10rax, 10 depot when i get terran from my random...
i prefer the early OC and marine heavy compo early on...
this would affect my build a lot...

i use reaper even in end game...
srz-ly reaper's damage vs building is insane and couple wit their mobility, u can jz pew pew ur way ahead...
i usuall get around 8-10 reapers then micro my way to toss's base sniping pylons slowly as i move to his nexus...
he could barely warp in units since i keep pylon sniping and if his army is out of position, his nexus is dead...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 8 2010, 04:18 PM

Reaper over-nerfed....So far no problem for reaper push already, isnt it?

Seriously.....stop nerfing Protoss =,=" ....just upgrade others.....

VR TOO NERFED. NEED BUFF

Marines too nerfed, need buff =/

i predict warpgate changes...
imho, nerf warpgate cost and let us warp in immortals <3

Immortal is too strong too be warp gate unit....

VR is so balanced.......look at the cost.....it is kind of fragile, as well as only usefull when charge up.....is easy to counter....ANYWAY...best way to win = show unique strat : ) .....Den opp sure blablabla alot....

VR is easy to counter if you know the way to counter : )

This post has been edited by xShinji: Oct 8 2010, 06:15 PM

its nt a warpgate unit...
but something like a link with the warptech...
it was like that during beta btw...

VR is good when its charged...
still its 250/150 which is freaking costly...
i always like to self charge my VR with my pylon then micro em to the opponent's ramp shooting my own zeal to keep the charges up...
took me so long to get the hang of it but it is rewarding for the amount of attention and apm u put into it...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 8 2010, 06:20 PM

i gonna hope for the same thing again

No need to nerf other race or units, just slightly improve zerg would be good enough

futher nerf of reapers as well just remove them - -"

o wow...nice strat...might be able to do that later on
but back to the topic,why wont they made the T building need to be near SD?

u see from toss,buildings need to be near pylon to be erected.from zerg,must be placed in creep area...
it's like limiting the build area.risk building proxies for better harass or not risking proxies,but only turtle at base...

zerg is fine...
artosis said his ZvT is close to 90% and ZvP is 60%...
fruity won GSL as a zerg...

Hmm, but out of all we have to look at the majority players in the network...as most of us can see the globally Zerg players is far lesser than T and P in the higher ranks ladder.

Can't say much bout fruity / artosis / idra / dimaga / lalush and bla bla goes on, perhaps koreans and beyond pro or perhaps there's an unlucky T / P as opponent

Overall we cant look at one ultra uber zerg and ignore majority suffering zergies

well u can look at the uber zergs and see wut they are doing...
how often do u see baneling carpet bombs which work exceptionally well?
bringing queens wit ur army to tranfuse ur mutas?
infestor's fungal growth into infested terrans?
getting infestors as ur first t2 unit?

wut they did are so far from the usual zerg u see and those are wut needed to beat their opponents...
blizz's came roaches are rarely used while koreans uses roach a lot in their core army throughout the GSL (over hydras etc)

chrono boost and larvae spawn are different, larvae spawn only useful in beginning of game, once u had few bases(or hatcheries) d, u dont need that skill d, unless you mass lings where 50 mineral utilize 1 larvae, if you go like hydra/more expensive unit, most likely the larvae spawn from the hatcheries themselves are enough(as long as you spend faster). But chrono can be useful from the beginning until the end of the game especially use on research.

nt really...
towards the end u wont have much stuff to chrono due to ur eco...
its mostly during the begining or when u r army trading...

not to mention its macro intensive to constantly chrono the same building every 20sec or so...

no mention of marauder? FFFUU

n dun forget terran has reactor

terran is going down... NOO!!!

If terran goes down, lets change to toss !!

no need to mention wut is gonna be removed...
HEART OF THE SWAMP YO!

swamp? lol

lol damn MTG...
swarm!!!!

i tap for 4 mana and i cast DAMNATION

I don't think any of those terran nerfs can effect terran in the game...

Nomatter how blizz tried to nerf terran... Its still the BEST and OP race =__=

Look, they only nerfed reapers... Not alot of players are using reapers nowadays in early game anyway (not team game)...

You still have imba marine, imba marauder, imba hellions, imba thors, imba banshees and imba battlecruiser =.="

yes terran is imba rofl

I really think after the 1.1 patch, it looks balance now..

Terran players don't use reaper much now.
The only thing we see y many ppl use terran is becoz WOL is about Terran.

So, basically new players will use Terran all the way as they already familiarize with Terran builds.
While Protoss, it's just damn easy to use..

poor zerg..always left behind in technology but still win the broodwar.wonder why??.or maybe zerg doesn't have politics in their camp

Yeah just nerf the f***ing terran to oblivion... every person who thinks using terran and wins thinks they're good ... better think again.. f***ing OP terran

what is ur rank ?

says the terran

oh mai~ the terran player speaks

This is because Gateway must be built inside the power grid, that's why Protoss has to satisfy the requirement to have Pylon first before gateway. While Terran's mechanism is different in which Barracks can be built everywhere around the map, making depot first before rax looks silly.

which is why it require a depot before rax...
proxy rax b4 depot is absurb especially in team games...
even 1v1 proxy reaper is hard to stop if u are not terran...

In 10 team games I had today, 5 of them was against terran. 4 of them proxied rax.

lol i've seen so much proxy rax...
at times i can stop em, at times i cant...
really a coin flip LOL

The hardest to stop will those who fly in their racks. Literally unscoutable unless you stumbled onto his scv or just happened to notice his base was too empty. (usually too late by then).

usually if i am toss i would scout after my pylon (10 pylon) for known proxy maps...
still some maps are big and even when scouted its too late (speedling + reaper combo is kidna sick btw)

well so far da changes tat i found not so reasonable would be reaper upgrade after factory...

it's way too late to use reaper effectively already =.="
better remove the upgrade...lol

maybe increase the upgrade cost?

This post has been edited by aLertz: Oct 13 2010, 04:13 PM

pretty much...
the supply before rax is more than enuff to keep proxy reaper (9gas 10rax 11supply) in check...

I don't think reapers are an issue in diamond leagues. If you do, probably you're in the wrong division. If you belong to mid-lower leagues, seriously you need an early scout. They'll go gas before rax for reapers.

reapers are still a problem for zergs who go for early expansion...
speed reaper than outrun anything off creep wit micro...

Thread can be closed I guess since the patch has come out. Discussion can be continued here.