Dear phD School sifus,

I have a question in mind (for a long time already) haha.... I tried looking from books and the internet for answers but I'm din't really find much
I was wondering whether you guys could clarify, what's the differences between:

1. Pipe water
2. Rain water
3. Distilled water
4. Deionized water
5. Battery water

We are using some of these waters in our lab but it would be good to know if I can actually use different type of water for different processes i.e. PCR etc..

As for those in our daily lives... one thing which I'm very interested in is.... what type of water can we actually use for our car's battery? Some say battery water, some say distilled water... very confused

Hope you guys can help me out, thanks thanks, appreciate your help!

rain water more acidic than other types of water in the list

i remember last time in tuition, my teacher said tat rain water can be use for car battery, he said long time ago petrol station will collect rain water n customer can take for free

This post has been edited by soket: Sep 28 2010, 10:18 AM

battery water, is actually distilled water.

distilled water is pure water which contain no impurities
usually being used in lab
battery water , are alkaline solution which enchances the conduction of electricity, used in car bettery other i dont know so well

I thought distilled water is very poor, if not doesn't conduct electricity?
My dad asked me to refill the car battery with distill water... [doubtful]

Fundamentally, all contains H2O(obviosuly) it is the chemical and physical content difference that makes it differ from one and another

1) Pipe water is the water that is cleanse to make it potable... so, it is safe interm of chemical, biological and other properties, that makes it safe to drink or other domestic usage like bathing(direct contact with skin that does not cause irritants)

2) rain water is the evaporated water(theoretically to be distilled water when it accumulates above the clouds. but when rain falls, it absorbs some properties of the atmosphere(polluted air due to industrial fume waste) that makes it acidic as per some forumers said.

3) this is the totally pure water, with no minerals, biological contenct etc....

4) not that familiar with this though

5) this is known as heavy water

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 28 2010, 11:10 AM

Heavy water is the stuff they use in nuclear reactors. This is definitely not battery water used in car batteries.

battery water is alkaline if i`m not wrong...
it is not pure water...
if distilled water,,how can the ion can go from negative to positive plat...

My mistakes... sorry...

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Added on September 28, 2010, 12:00 pmif so, then my friend during schooling time wont be hospitalized by drinking battery water LAA

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 28 2010, 12:00 PM

Car batteries are basically lead acid batteries. If he was drinking the stuff that was in the battery, he would have been drinking sulfuric acid.

Adding alkaline to a car battery would probably kill the battery since it will neutralize the acid inside.

ya,,,it is acid actually,,,
forgot ady learned when form 5

...............

no one start from the standard by WHO ?

basically water quality is measured by :
1) qualitative : appearance, taste, smell
2) quantitative : all chemical composition of the water
3) microbiologic : all microorganisms

shouldn't be too hard to figure out the difference i think.

and battery water you use to fill up the battery is DISTILLED WATER.

like what Eventless mentioned, the batteries are lead acid. but without H20, dry acid itself cannot exhibit acidity and hence the use of distilled water which is pure of any contaminants.



sos from wiki.


and to Awakened_Angel, distilled water is NOT for drinking la. since it is so pure, it is very hypotonic. When drank, it will cause excess water entering into our body cells, causing them to burst. Google deplasmolysis or cytolysis.

I've been thinking for quite a long time and I still don't know what's the difference...
May need to wait for Highwind85 to explain the usage of water when it comes to molecular level

As I've mentioned earlier, I thought distilled water is not (or very poor) in conducting electricity? O___O
I think its more likely deionized water...

when you buy your battery.......what is the fluid in it? ever ponder on that?

Well... I never tried to take the water out from the battery and test it, my bad

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Added on September 28, 2010, 12:40 pmWell... I don't really trust Wiki but still here's a quote from there:
"Non-laboratory uses
Distilled or deionized water are commonly used to top up lead acid batteries used in cars and trucks. The presence of foreign ions commonly found in tap water will cause a drastic reduction in an automobile's battery lifespan.
Distilled or deionized water is preferable to tap water for use in automotive cooling systems.[6] The minerals and ions typically found in tap water can be corrosive to internal engine components, and can cause a more rapid depletion of the anti-corrosion additives found in most antifreeze formulations.[7][8] Distilled or deionized water is especially important in automotive hybrid system component cooling systems, mixed with hybrid system coolant, to prevent corrosion and/or electrolysis of hybrid components.[9]"

That settles one question....

I'm living proof... drank distilled water and deionized water everyday

This post has been edited by [PF] T.J.: Sep 28 2010, 12:40 PM

When famine breakout, and no potable water, evaporated and condensed distilled water is the only water that is safe to drink and easiest to obtain.

The problem that excessive distilled water cause it since there are no minerals within it, it tends to absorb minerals from body which leads to demineralization of body

I think the reason why distilled water can be used (even though it is not good in terms of conductivity) is because there's still sulfuric acid inside the automotive battery. Based on Wiki, the car battery consists of 35% sulfuric acid and 65% water.

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Added on September 28, 2010, 12:44 pm+1

This post has been edited by [PF] T.J.: Sep 28 2010, 12:44 PM

i hear my name here...
distilled water is water prepared by boiling and condensation...
deionized water is something like MiliQ water used in the lab..it is filtered and deionized using a ion binding resin..
So far in my work, distilled water and MiliQ water are interchangeble as both also pure water..(i just want clean water)
but i reckon deionized water, as indicated by its name, has lower conductivity due to lack of other ions...i dunno how significant is that difference though...

where does your distilled water comes from if may i ask?

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Added on September 28, 2010, 3:34 pmbut that isn't really really pure distilled water.

those distilled water u get in labs are distilled and condensed for at 3-4 times, hence it is 100% free of minerals and other contaminants.

when famine breakouts, i doubt people have the time and energy to conduct distillation a few times.

and it does not absorb minerals from the body la. it causes osmotic imbalance which results in cells bursting.

This post has been edited by zstan: Sep 28 2010, 03:34 PM

distilled and condensed just once i guess? coz the steam will touch the cold coil, trickle down the tubing into the container you used to store your distilled water..
There's another purer type of distilled water called double distilled water...

This post has been edited by highwind85: Sep 28 2010, 04:04 PM

I am from Engineering background.. not medical.. to me, the flow of substance is absorb

it is like people argue about the terms for place to urinate... toilet? washing closet? lavatory? aint it the same? but use differently in different place

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Added on September 28, 2010, 4:06 pmYes... I am talking about possibility of drinking distilled water as in general.

and yes too to your assumptions that people do not have the time and energy to do distillation several times...

100% maybe required for medical purposes... but for survival purposes? not quite... and what does 95% pure and 99% pure have to do with keeping me hydrated....

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 28 2010, 04:07 PM

read on osmosis and you'll understand what zstan is saying...
an analogy is drinking salt water...
when you drink salt water, you'll feel thirsty due to salt water has higher osmotic pressure (hypertonic) than your body..
thus water (read: not mineral) flow out of your body...making you feel thirsty...

ok. so how do you justify that the distilled water will 'absorb the minerals' when the water itself is already in the bloodstream?

I work in a lab... I have ample of deionized water and distilled water haha
I don't think its dangerous to drink distilled water, as long as we don't replace our everyday drinking water with distilled water. Normal water has more minerals, even though minute, which may be good for us

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Added on September 28, 2010, 7:11 pmYeap, d dH2O is even purer, but quite expensive haha
Tried both dH20 and deionized water for PCR, both works

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Added on September 28, 2010, 7:19 pmThe human's digestive tract isn't exactly "empty", as in there's a lot of other excretions i.e mucus, HCL acid, bile etc., which will offset the hypotonicity of the distilled water once consumed, regardless of how pure the water is... which probably explained why I'm still alive hahaha

This post has been edited by [PF] T.J.: Sep 28 2010, 07:19 PM

It is my assumptions... further discussions from medical POV will only shed my ignorant

nothing to do with the digestive tract. it's more to the influence of increasing amount of electrolyte free fluid to the interstitial space, hence, it becomes hypotonic relative to the fluid in the cell and then osmosis blablabla.....you know.
you are alive because the diet of most urban people(which likely include you) is actually have excess in sodium and other elements. which together with the kidneys compensate quite well. not that i am encouraging you to eat more salty food or drink more distilled water though

This post has been edited by slimey: Sep 28 2010, 08:16 PM

Well, the hypotonicity of the water will be decreased when mixed with other "stuffs" within the digestive tract, upon absorption, only then what you say will happen
LOL.... Even if I don't eat excessive Sodium also won't matter kua... osmoregulation via aldosterone will occur anyway
I eat a lot of vegetables (non-salty) to save money hahaha

it so happens that the other stuff in the digestive tract you mentioned also comes from the body........so net effect is still the decrease of the concentration of the electrolyte.
sodium may not have to be the salt we use in our food. there's so many "hidden" source of sodium.
and yes.....the body is very good in osmoregulation.......there's a limit to it but no worries.....there's many signs the body will tell you when the limit of the osmoregulation is near.

You are scaring me ar dude haha
I should turn into vegetarian

Pipe water, rain water, distilled water, deionized water. All drinkable. All are hypotonic. Drinking hypotonic liquids does not cause your cells to burst.

Nobody pees pure distilled water, so minerals are leaving your body all the time. If you switch from drinking pipe water to distilled water, you're reducing your mineral intake, but only very slightly. No pipe water contains even remotely the same concentration of minerals as urine.

You get minerals from your food too. In fact, practically all your mineral intake comes in your food.



http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health...s/en/index.html

yes..minerals leave our body all the time...due too the regulations of the ions in our body, minerals not taken in by the cells but not due to the reasons Awakened_angel given..

how sure are you that the cells won't burst? of course..u might not realise 100 cells bursting inside your body as body cells generally do not have a nerve receptor...

Here's a simple experiment that can be done to test this, take a bucket filled with distilled water and stick your hand in it. If you start seeing stuff coming off your hand after a while, it is probably a good indication that you have cells exploding and peeling off your hands or you should wash your hands more often.

The cells on the epidermis are dead cells.... I don't think they will burst

Ever had your hands go wrinkly after soaking in water for a while? This shows that the water is having an effect on the skin so this experiment should still be valid.

That is what I read, sorry if I am wrong...

that since distilled water are so pure, they tend to'absorb" other mineral/particles to get equilibirum....

I am more familiar with water properties from physical properties outside human body

The dead cells are permeable to water. Upon permeating through those cells (after prolonged exposure to water), they come into contact with the inner cells, causing them to swell... since there's not enough space, they tend to push each other causing a wrinkled effect. I don't think the cells burst though....

If the water can get in, the experiment is still valid isn't it? If distilled water can cause cells to explode, you'll have skin layers peeling off after a while. My guess is that you'll just end up with wrinkly hands and nothing more.

skin absorb water, yes..
cells burst, no...
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....gers-wrinkle-in

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Added on September 29, 2010, 11:23 amhaha..we are all learning...what you're saying is "diffussion" which is valid without the involvement of semi-permeable membrane..
Osmosis is applicable for biological system due to the presence of semi-permeable membrane (Cell membrane/ cell wall)...
Ah..this brings me back my memories of spm bio experiment where you soak potatos in isotonic, hypertonic and hypotonic solutions..

This post has been edited by highwind85: Sep 29 2010, 11:23 AM

LOL.... I remembered stealing some potatoes home to cook french fries
Bad example, don't learn guys haha

What makes pure water hypotonic? are you saying that water distillers kill people?


This post has been edited by wodenus: Sep 29 2010, 06:50 PM

No they don't haha
Explanation available in previous pages

if you drink it everyday without fail, it might just kill you.

explanation on why its hypotonic can be found in front.

No it won't kill you.

Yes distilled water is hypotonic. But so is pipe water. Pipe water has some minerals, but not that much. Hypotonic does not mean toxic.

If you drink pure distilled water your entire life, you will not die, or even get sick. Because you're still eating. And most of the minerals your body needs comes from your food, not from the plain water you drink.

Once the water you drink enters your body, it is absorbed into your blood stream. It is not kept separate. So the proposed experiment with soaking your hand in water is irrelevant. Your cells in your body will not be floating around in a solution of pure distilled water.

So, if drinking water is hypotonic, why does it not cause all your cells to die? The answer is obvious. Don't drink so much water all in one go. If you drink 4L of water all in one go, you might get water intoxication and die. But why would you want to drink so much water? Your body has a built in mechanism to control the balance of water and ions in your body. Everyone has it from birth. Trust your thirst reflex. It's worked well for billions of people for thousands of years.

distilled water has nothing except water..you can't compare it with pipe water..

My point is pipe water has so little mineral, it is nearly identical to distilled water. At least when it comes to nutrition and tonicity.

acid or alkali? that makes the different...btw water is water, H2O

Okay, get MiliQ type-1 water.. this settles everything...

the difference is in its pH in addition to the minerals n microorganism contain inside.