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 Personal financial management, V2

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CrossFirE
post Aug 6 2012, 05:09 PM

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Earning per month

RM 4,000 (After deducted EPF, Tax and Socso)

Deductions per month

Electric Bill - RM 300
Water Bill - RM 8
Unifi - RM 150
Phone bill and broadband for GF - RM 128
Tithes for church - RM 470
Car Petrol - RM 350 or RM 400
Food - RM 800
Entertainment - RM 200

Saving per month - RM 1,500 <- in case no emergency usage for the month

Other Savings

FD in bank - RM 36,000
Savings in bank - RM 1,000

I tried to invest in mutual funds but in the end lose a lot of money and dare not to invest it anymore. Besides mutual fund, is there any investment i could make because currently i only put my money in FD.

Please advice guys. smile.gif

Thanks!
CrossFirE
post Aug 6 2012, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 6 2012, 05:55 PM)
May i share my POV?
[attachmentid=2986327]
Savings of 38.60%+/- per month is good AND that's taking into account of tithing and taking care of your girlfriend.

Sorry for being nosy yar but why are U subsidizing your girlfriend's phone & Internet bill? For her safety/health or U lost a bet or something biggrin.gif?
Just be aware that a relationship with a "certain start" can lead to certain further expectations, which may be detrimental for the relationship. My apologies - old fart babbling  sweat.gif

Ok, next up - U've $37K stashed away, that's waaaaaay more than the 6 months' to even 12 months' of emergency buffer average expenes.
U "tried" to invest in mutual funds and lost $?
Just to share a POV yar, no right wrong.
If U are a Star Wars fan or old enough (koff koff tongue.gif), U'd remember Yoda saying "Do or Do not. Don't TRY"
ie.
Did U really invest - learn, picked, executed with a plan of entries, management and exits?
Selection via MorningStar, Lippers, Normandy, Sharpe Ratio, Asset Allocation big picture approach, etc?
Execution of buying via Dollar cost averaging, Value Cost Averaging, Value investing?
Execution of switching out or selling off via abnormal profits, target profit, etc?

If not, then congrats! U did the same thing i did when i started - investing purely on hope & greed  doh.gif
It's akin to TRYING to drive by just jumping into a car and TRYING to stick shift (assuming manual car lar) and pedal balance at the highway
WITHOUT learning, testing and having a plan to do all these at an empty big car park
Not a good strategy to grow your resources to have enough to provide, protect and giving, nor for one's health  laugh.gif

Not just mutual funds / unit trusts, ANY type of investment vehicles need research and learning, then executed with a plan.
Then and only then will U be able to track, manage and grow your resources properly.

IF U did learn, plan and execute AND STILL lost a great deal of $, U would then be able to pin point WHY and avoid or reduce such probabilities in the future.
eg. if U already learned how to drive and got into an accident, do U give up driving or learn from that and lower your future probabilities of being in an accident?

Just a thought on investing yar  notworthy.gif
Staying with FDs and ASB/ASN may be viable (watch out for expenses' inflation) for some who have great money management and expenses control abilities, which U seem to be showing a bit of in your data  notworthy.gif
*
Thanks bro for your explanation. For the last part of your sentence, you mention if someone go for FD is because they have good management in controlling outflow and inflow of cash?

Yes, I didn't do any study regarding investment which leads me to loss I think but I kinda feel boring reading all those stuff but maybe will change mind in the future.

Anyway, any advice for me? Actually I missed out one more expenses. Phone installment for gf cost rm 85 and installment for medical card cost rm 50 a month. Can help me recaculate and what I should do now with existing FD

Thanks!!
CrossFirE
post Aug 6 2012, 10:43 PM

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QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Aug 6 2012, 06:51 PM)
You don't have car loan or house loan or rental commitment?

Can share when you invest in unit trust? When sell them? Which particular fund?
*
My car loan finish already and i am living with my sis. Thus, i pay all the utility bills. smile.gif

If not wrong, i bought public aggressive fund - PAF. It doesn't do well at the start and end up worse. I bought it last year March/April and decided to let go around November 2011 if not wrong because it is going down and it is still down now.


QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 6 2012, 06:57 PM)
Bored while learning, executing & managing your investments?
That's GOOD!
IMHO, Investments are meant to be boring, trading and gambling is meant to be "interesting" tongue.gif.
Thus, if i ever get excited over a certain new "investment" (land banking and agar wood plantations, being sold by hotties  sweat.gif), i know i should most probably not be investing in it.

Anyhow, haven't U realised that most "good things for U" are either boring or plain blah? Right or right?
Temptations & excitement usually gets me into trouble hehhe.
Remember, nobody cares more for your growth (assets and self) than U.
If U "dont bother", U think that fund manager or that gold trader bothers about U?  brows.gif

"FD Only Investment" - viable only for those who can live on less than 1.5% of their 3% to 4% FD returns.
IMHO, Severely for super savers and money management experts only as inflation will eat one alive in the long run if one can't save like heck.

Ok ok - back to your costs.
I'm too lazy lar bro, DIY with the attached ZIP file of an Excel i shared earlier.
Fill in the yellow cells as needed. Drop me a line or PM if U need further clarifications of that Excel file worksheets and usages.
*
After the error or greed investment, i learned that maybe it take more than a simple effort to do research or study investment but i didnt have the heart to do investment yet but maybe in the future. All i can do now is save and put them in FD. It maybe less in returns but if i able to save more and put them in a big lump sum then returns will be more? Please let me know if this is wrong but anyway, i would like to learn investment but in a slow pace due to the errors i made previously made me feel a bit scared of the investment.

Is there anywhere to start for newbie and i prefer medium risk investment.

Oh, by the way, my savings look ok right? I mean my financial report for every month. Do i need to cut off somewhere?


Added on August 6, 2012, 10:45 pm
QUOTE(Smurfs @ Aug 6 2012, 06:57 PM)
There are plenty of useful resources around this forum like stock exchange , property talk etc.

As a starter i recommend u read some books about investment before u plunk in all your hard earn cash.

ohya mayb u can start with investing REIT ( real estate investment trust ) , as in there are people treat this as an alternative for FD.

Just my thoughts
*
REIT? Not really sure about it. Mind to share the info? smile.gif

This post has been edited by CrossFirE: Aug 6 2012, 10:45 PM
CrossFirE
post Aug 7 2012, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 7 2012, 09:05 AM)
REITs? LYN's REITs thread/topic - http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1993103/+2060#entry53638332

PAGF U mean? Public Aggressive Growth Fund?
This thinggy is as its name implies, thus not for the weak hearted heheh. Can swing like mad.
Personally, i'm investing in this via EPF $ and doing it programmatically every 3 months with Twinvest (Dollar + Value Cost Averaging) entry & abnormal profit exit.

Lump sum? Bro, it's not just about the quantity of profits (or losses), it's the % too. The risk/reward ratio.
Personally i'd only do lump sum if there was a value (lelong) or clear trend opportunity, else i'd plod along doing periodic and programmatic investing (every 1, 3 or 4 months). Lump sum is like poker - show hand / "sai lang", U better be very sure AND even then, have some dry powder withheld just in case it doesn't work out well.

Medium risk? heheh - everything is subjective, relative and also dependent on individual's point of view.
To me, PAGF is medium risk, not high, coz of the way i manage my entries and exits + the PAGF's multi-years statistics i've checked out.
Heck, there are some folks screaming bloody murder when their REITs fall 8% to 10% last year's Jul-Sep 2011 Euro scare.
To me, that's so-so only VS normal stocks' fall of more than 15% and gold's prices swinging up/down 10%+/- within a month.
Best to go read & learn first, and accumulate your ammo in FD and bond funds while learning & planning.

Your savings - just bouncing some ideas yar, no right/wrong.
Currently U can save about 35% of your net income.
However, like U yourself know, this is NOW.
IF & WHEN U start your own household, this most probably will be hit by another 20%+/- (if good management, else may be hit even worse) due to JUST home costs, thus savings will fall to 15%+/-, which is average +/-.
IF U are ok with being average, great.
ELSE i think U better reduce something somewhere.

Just a thought  notworthy.gif
*
Thanks for your explanation but i think i only can reduce my expenses through utility bills and food or maybe entertainment as well. The other seems like have 'locked down' to it. In that case, i have to wait for another raise in order to save more. Let's say if i am going to buy a house in the future cost maybe RM 350k or RM 400k, how much i need to pay per month? Sorry for this because i really don know the rate to pay back houses so might need some of your expert opinion.

Thanks!
CrossFirE
post Aug 7 2012, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 7 2012, 10:34 AM)
Assuming home cost is about $300K to 400K,
80% loan
rate is at 4.4%pa
for 28 years
it'll be about $1,500pm+/-
Not an expert, just that all these parameters are the same for my current home tongue.gif - thus i can pull out the numbers easily for U.

Thus, assuming U are much younger than i AND go for a longer term + 90% loan, it should be less than $1.5K pm
*
RM 1,500 per month eh? that will be a cost which will reduce my saving to 15% of what you tried to say just now. Unless i earn higher salary, there is no chance for me to save higher. Maybe eat bread/chicken rice and open one light and fan every nite can save it but i am staying with my sis and bro so can't do much for that. well.. maybe have to bear this until i got raise and save some more.

currently, i think FD will be fine for me but i will look some material to read for investment but the problem is i don know which one to invest to. i know my own risk taking and my one is low -medium risk. more on the low side.

maybe i should look into bonds?
CrossFirE
post Aug 7 2012, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 7 2012, 10:44 AM)
Yeah, good idea - checkout bonds and bond funds first as it's fluctuations are not as crazy as equity funds / stocks.
ASN series / Public bond funds / Ambond funds / etc.
*
how about the return rate for bonds? it is paid per year also?
CrossFirE
post Aug 7 2012, 01:18 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 7 2012, 12:15 PM)
dependent on the bond or bond funds.
For bond funds, main thing is the increase in value of NAV, not the amount of distribution, assUme-ing distribution/dividends are reinvested.

As for returns, I can only share what i have (see snapshot below):
*
These are the bonds you bought? It is working like mutual funds right? When you got the returns, it will 'buy' somemore bond funds and invest in it until you withdraw the whole thing right? normally how much you invest in this kind of fund? any fund that is good for recommendation? tongue.gif
CrossFirE
post Aug 7 2012, 02:08 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 7 2012, 01:30 PM)
Yup, a type of mutual funds called bond funds
as opposed to equity funds like the PAGF U bought.

Yup, i chose to "reinvest" the dividends/distribution, thus i get "extra units" whenever dividends are paid out.
It's all a "sandiwara show" lar for dividends/distribution - checkout the various posts in Fund Management or Public Mutual threads/topics.
In short, whenever distribution/dividends happen, NAV goes down.

---------
thus simple example (simplified for ease of understanding, NOT 100% gospel truths yar):
1 day before distribution/dividends:
1000 units * $1 = $1,000 value held

1 day after distribution/dividends (reinvested):
1050 units * $0.95 = $997.50, with a few ringgit possibly missing due to tax and stuff doh.gif

Thus, the most important is the VALUE growth - ie. total cost paid VS value held now (units * NAV).
----------

how much do i invest?
Bwhaha - U shdn't be asking such Q leh coz my circumstances AND goals are different from yours.
Generally, i just plonk $ into bond funds IF i'm holding too much (as a % of my investable assets) cash in my flexi mortgage.

Any fund that is good/recommended?
Yes, plenty - but these may not jive with your personal goals/timelines, investment methodologies & risk appetite.
Best to go search & learn.

1st things 1st - why are U investing? for what? for how long? what are your expected returns? how much % are U willing to risk?

Just a thought notworthy.gif
*
Thanks! For those questions you asked me in your last sentence, i think i invest because i want to have a better future with some savings. The investment must be low risk such as bonds eventhough the return is not that great but i can live with that. Just want a steady return without super crazy inflations going around. Expected returns maybe 5%?

I know that EPF is giving around that figure as well but let's just treat this as a side investment other than EPF and FD. smile.gif

CrossFirE
post Aug 7 2012, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 7 2012, 02:23 PM)
Hm.. your goals.. fuzzy a bit. Workable but if U refine your target clearer, U'll have a clearer target to aim/shoot for.
Thus, your planning and execution would also be more refined.
Take it from a guy that has gone through credit card hell in his 20s and been bombed in his 30s (58%+ net worth gone).
Clarity of Focus is an amazing thing.

BTW, on inflation - there's the:
a. official average of 3% to 4%pa version
b. the holy cow average of 6%pa to 8%pa personal version for some
c. the less than 3%pa average personal version for others

It all depends on how one spends one's $ and methinks one's personal economy/inflation is the only one that we have a greater control, thus, should focus on.
If U know your personal inflation rate is less than 1%, FDs and bonds/bond funds cukup makan liao hehe UNLESS U want to build something to give back or provide for your loved ones.

Just a thought - no righter right or wrong-er wrong yar  notworthy.gif
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hmm.. i think my inflation rate also around maybe 4 - 5%. Due to the petrol, utility bills and food and stuff, the inflation rate is like that but the problem is that i not willling to take medium - high risk due to the error i made but maybe also because i didnt do much research during that time. So that is why i am considering bonds. One step at a time.

In the market now, i think the most popular bond is public bank and ambank one right?
CrossFirE
post Aug 7 2012, 02:46 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Aug 7 2012, 02:38 PM)
er... U do know that in the long run, inflation itself is a risk right?

Anyhow, bond FUNDs (not bonds - slightly different animal) - yeah, AMBANK's and PUBLIC MUTUAL's are popular.
However, pls dont just jump in coz it's popular.
I'd suggest checking them out first VS other bond funds VS Gov's sukuk bonds etc.
*
Inflation is another risk? how so? lower than you losing money in other investment right?

hmm.. where to get the material? is it available online?

This post has been edited by CrossFirE: Aug 7 2012, 02:47 PM

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