AAAABBBB,

For investment 7%, that's not very high. if you know how to invest, then your return will be double than that amount. If whether they can invest ASB, that's their matter because you can't invest these fund except you fulfil their requirement. And for your info, ASB maximum is 200,000 units, only AHB can invest 400,000 units. If you do not agree, then that's your mindset and your matter, you won't believe yourselves can earn more than that rather become employment, then you will remain that till the day of your life. Just try to venture into one of the business rather than become employment , then feel the experience. "I rather be a wolf rather than be a dogs for other"

This post has been edited by adolph: Jan 13 2013, 06:20 PM

5 million is just a rough figure. You can earn 5 million by say 50 years old or 55 if you have a higher income since this dictates that you have more capacity to save. So whatever you are saving right now that gives you the 2 million, the other individual is probably saving twice as much-since he has the capacity to-and therefore can reach 4 or 5 at the same age.

Secondly, it is true what you say, however there is a loophole

This was misunderstood by another member, i forgot his/her name,,so I will repeat once again.

A earns 1 k a month, and he saves 600-he is wealthy. What does this life dictate? That you are a slave to your money. Remember- you cannot do both. Either you are sacrificing your lifestyle or you are sacrificing your purse.

So I would rewrite your sentences this way:

A earns Rm 1000 a month, he saves RM 600- he is rich in wealth, but poor in lifestyle.
B earns Rm 10 000 a month, he spends Rm 12 000-he is poor in wealth, but rich in lifestyle.

There is another person-this person not many people know of.

C earns Rm 100 000 a month-he spends Rm 50 000 and saves Rm 50 000-he is rich in wealth and rich in lifestyle.

Okay before you go on a rage, yes he can choose to save Rm 80 000 or Rm 90 000, since Rm 50 000 is a rather obscene. But the emphasis is on ,, which I have been repeating for the last few posts ..the freedom of choice.

C can CHOOSE to spend Rm 50 000 or maybe spend like A , only Rm 600. Regardless, he has saved more EITHER way he spends.

Why is that? Because his earning capacity has increased.

This is the problem with always focusing on the expense side of the equation-your control is limited.

A person to have successful financial management should focus on the revenue and expense side to have a healthy wallet and lifestyle.

+1.

AB

IMO, still the same advice. Upgrade yourself with a degree or higher. Get a decent high income job. Slowly start your business simultaneously. Then you will capable to build up capital to start the business you want.

You can have tonnes of business idea that you mentioned, and just make sure you are prepare to take the risk of "fail" and back to square life.
But life is magic as such facebook owner, bill gates & etc and wish you will success as them.

What about C who earns 1,000, spend 500 and save the remaining 500?
Your posts are twisted in a way, like you want to believe everyone can push their limits to no ends and make a buckload, but in reality, many people earn the average.

There's no point saying rich or poor in lifestyle or vice versa. The rule of thumb is SPEND within your means. Your lifestyle/spending have to accomodate your income. People are living frugal because they are not earning your ideal salary.

Your examples should be A earning 1,000, spending 500. B earning 1,000, spending 1,200. C earning 1,000 and spending 500. Not a number makes out of nowhere.

You can try all means to improve your income but you cannot CHOOSE your income. Should one's earning capacity increases, spending within his means still applied. Simple as a pie.

Well here is where we differ. Yes I believe everyone can push their limits and make a fortune. Of course they can.

Your first point:
Many people earn the average-yes, of course they do. That is why only 0.1 percent of the population are milionaires (USD).

Second point:
Yes of course you must spend within your means. Please read my post on page 92. No matter how high or low your income you should never overspend-this is common sense.

However, you are moot on one point. Your lifestyle and spending has to accomodate your income until you find the opportunity so that your income accomodates your lifestyle.

Third point:
This one is a fallacy. Are we living in a socialistic state where everyone earns the same in whatever he does? Of course not.

No numbers are not made out of nowhere-those numbers are real numbers from real people with real jobs.

If you use your example, then of course again I have said,,common sense dictates the person who spends less than he earns is better off.

Finally:
Yes as you increase your income, your spending can increase as long as it is within your means-or you can have the same level of spending as before and save even more-your choice. And no, you cannot choose your income, but you can choose your earnings-two different things.

But all this is redundant since we have two different beliefs from the very start of the post.

I agree with you that not many people earn 100 000 a month or more. So a person can choose to be like the not many or he can just choose to be average-if so, this is not wrong. You can still follow the points I listed to have good personal finances the slow way on page 92.

This post has been edited by Beachkid: Jan 14 2013, 11:07 AM

Your lifestyle has to accomodate your pocket irregardless how much you earn. When opportunity arises, your have the liberty to tweak your lifestyle. i.e: still spending within your means.

Who doesn't want to be a millionaire? There are many reasons why many people are earning the average. I do not agree that average earners skim/compromise on their lifestyle, just because they didn't live extravagantly. Many people are earning average doesn't equate with everyone is earning the same. The examples are flawed (now I realised thats not your examples, paiseh), how can one compared a person earning 1K vs 10K vs 100K?

I didn't doubt you a person can earn 100K a month. But, how many actually earn this much? Are you earning 30K a month? If people are earning 100K a month, do you think they have qualms flying on first class, fine-dine as and when they like?

As much as we want to dream big, think big and LIVE BIG, we must be honest with ourselves. Be realistic.
As much as they are many successful stories which are inspirational, they are also many stories ended in failure which serve as valuable lessons to all.

Yup so first point agreed upon.

You can compare earnings. That is part of financial management. To seek ways to increase your earnings, or lower your expenses, or save your capacity-depending on your situation.

The reason why i brought up earnings was because AABB put forth two examples stating how two different individuals life would vary depending on their different earnings and different expenses.

I then proposed to him another individual which led to the 3rd example.

So the examples then formed the foundation on how 3 different individuals had different freedom of choice based on their earnings. That was simply it.

Finally, yes I agree it is a risk. As I said in my previous posts, it is not an easy path. This is just a path I propose. There are many different paths to take, you can be even choose to be like most of my other friends who have started work at Big 4 companies, or Telco, or law firms and have generally a good pay with a % increase every 3 to 5 years and rather nice lifestyle.

Mine is just one proposal that I have chosen to live which is far from average but I have decided to take that risk. Some works out for the better, some do not-true. It's your choice.

This post has been edited by Beachkid: Jan 14 2013, 11:58 AM

Have you considered that the majority of the people in this can't achieve a big bank account and lifestyle, either due to their ability or luck?

The world isn't really overrun with millionaires you know. That is why the 1% is called the 1% and the other 5% is called the 5%

And if you fall under the 95%, live accordingly. Being in the 95% and try to climb into the 1% or even the 5% bracket is not as easy as you make it to be.

Yup that's true.

I never said it was easy, it is really really hard.

Also it's 0.1 percent as of now. I think most people think it's 1 percent due to the wall street protests, but yeah...it's actually way lower than that( in terms of USD)

This post has been edited by Beachkid: Jan 14 2013, 02:26 PM

Beachkid,

I don't think anyone is disputing that there are exceptional individuals who are capable and can in fact earn to such an extent that they can enjoy the type of lifestyle that is conventionally admired i.e. driving a Porsche, sipping champagne and eat meals prepared by Michelin star chefs. It is the tone of your post that people take exception to. The manner in which you wrote pours disdain on people who post on cutting down expenses as a prudent step in personal finance management. Most of the posts on expense cutting were answers to people who posted their current income and expense and asked for advice on how to manage their finances better. Whether a person earns 2K or 50K a month, they still need to manage their finances and part of that is managing their expenses. A person who earns 5 million a year may think that they don't need to cut expenses but if they are spending 6 million a year, then the advice would be the same : cut expenses. Not many people would advise just maintaining a unmanageable lifestyle and just to earn more. Cutting expense can be done immediately but earning more takes time and depends on the ability of the individual, opportunities at hand and even luck.

Good one...

The book "Your money or your life" by Joe Dominguez should be read for all aspiring gung-ho $ chaser.
It gives a point of view where by simplifying one's life, one gets "MORE life", not pains of being unfulfilled.
To me, the best parts were:
a. If we are off making a living everyday so much, how come we come back tired, not full of life?
"Making a living" wor.. or are we "making a dying" instead? ie. exchanging life energy/time for $

b. What is $? The UNIVERSAL undeniable specific truth.
Nope, not an exchange of value as a person may not want your $ in exchange for their product/service/life. Thus, $ to that person is of no value.
The universal undeniable truth - $ is an exchange of our life's energy. To get or make $ (even investing or biz), we spend time/effort/skill, even 1 hr per day for multi-millionaires, to make $. Thus, it is an exchange of life's energy for $.

c. If we live a life where we don't have to vacate (vacation) or "get away" from it, do we actually need that much more $?
ie. earn more (stressed) by exchanging life energy/time for paying our vacations / "get aways" VS just simplifying life (LIFEstyle, not lifeSTYLE)

Just a thought - interesting perspective, not 100% gospel truth yar
BTW, google about Joe Dominguez - U'd be surprised about his rags to riches then gave it all up for a simpler life, focused on what he is passionate about.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Jan 16 2013, 07:23 PM

I apologize if my posts came across as contemptuous, that was not my intention.

If it was so, that was because for the last 86 pages, people have been giving advice about cutting expenses and not increasing income. Personal financial management requires both, which was probably what fueled my "passionate" posts due to this neglect.

"If people paid more attention to how they spent money, they could spend less, it contended; if they spent less they could work less; and if they worked less they could focus on things that meant more to them than accumulating possessions."

Good insight, good to see from the other perspective. Rat race is getting tiring...

This post has been edited by gark: Jan 16 2013, 07:40 PM

Yup that's right.

A colleague once told me of a vicious cycle:

I go home to take a break from work.
I then go to work to take a break from home.

One should not be too busy making a living, that one forgets to make a life-Rev Run.

This post has been edited by Beachkid: Jan 16 2013, 07:44 PM

>.< i work in architect firm, montly earn around 3k, not enou survive , now learn to work bit part time ( sell notebook)

Impossible a white collar architect cannot survive, I am just blue collar technician that earn a lot lesser than u, but work some part time able to survive and live with no liabialities - free from hse and car loan..

Read the thread from page 86 onwards..

i just go through a website, and I like it..
http://pbskids.org/itsmylife/money/managing/index.html

go thru the sublink in the link above..Good and easy to understand, I like it too..

Managing Money:
Spending and Saving
Needs Vs. Wants
Set Money Goals
Expect Expenses
Track Your Cash Flow
Create A Budget
Make A Saving Plan
Bank It!
IML Money Tips
From the Mentors

I like the example of the market.

The market
In the business world, "the market" doesn't mean the grocery store. It means how well a certain product (say, lemonade) or a certain service (say, lawn mowing) is doing. If the market for something is "good" or "strong," you stand a good chance of doing well and earning money as long as you work hard. If the market is "bad" or "weak," it may be more difficult to do well.

If you want to make money at a certain job, you've got to learn to look at the signs and decide if the market for what you're offering is good or bad. Let's look at the two examples we already mentioned:


Running a lemonade stand
Signs that the market is bad:
• There are already lots of other kids running lemonade
stands in your area, so you would have to fight
for customers.
• The weather is very cold, so people may not want to
drink lemonade.
• You live in an area where few people walk around, so
there might not be enough customers.
• For some reason, people in your area don't like
lemonade very much.


Signs that the market is good:
• Nobody else is doing this in your area, so the customers
will be all yours.
• The weather has been very warm, so people will be in the
mood for lemonade.
• You know of a great spot for a stand where lots of people
wander by all day.
• Lemonade is always popular where you live.


Running a lawn mowing service

Signs that the market is bad:
• You live in a neighborhood where very few people
have big lawns.
• People in your area really like mowing their own lawns.
• Almost everyone you know pays a professional gardener
to do the lawn.
• There are already lots of other kids offering the same
service.
• The weather has been very dry, so nobody's lawn has
been growing.

Signs that the market is good:
• Your area is filled with big lawns to mow.
• Many people don't have the time or energy to mow their
lawns themselves.
• Few people want to pay big money to professional
gardeners.
• Not many kids are already doing it.
• The weather has been wet, so lawns are growing quickly

Using same analysis of my idea running a stinky tauhu stand at pasar malam,

Running a stinky tauhu
Signs that the market is bad:
• There are already lots of other stinky tauhu stands in your area, so you would have to fight
for customers. ( None seen so far in Penang)
• The weather is raining, so people may not want to go pasar malam. ( True. Raining better sleep at home)
• You live in an area where few people like stinky thing, so there might not be enough customers. (Not true. It is like durian, u never try before u never like it, once tried addicted. Stinky tauhu is selling like craze hot cakes in Hong Kong and Taiwan streets)
• For some reason, people in your area don't like stinky tauhu very much. ( Cannot be help. Maybe 1 out of 10 dare not try thus forever don't like. Fear and Dare factor.)

Signs that the market is good:
• Nobody else is doing this in your area, so the customers will be all yours. ( Ya, first to penetrate the night market business selling stinky tauhu. No competitor. Price fixing the profit can be control)
• Once a week only pasar malam at one place, the other night pasar malam at another place so people will be addicted mood for stinky tauhu. ( They will buy more)
• You know of a great spot for a stand where lots of people wander by all day. (Pasar malam a lot of ppl wander around but stinky tauhu stalls must be at far end corner not near any other stand of business in pasar malam)
• Stinky tauhu is always popular where you live. ( Not sure. Its worth a try to explore new market segment. Ah Kau can make it by selling newspaper at road side so can I )

This is part of financial management, how to diversity earning partime to increase income.

Yes you got it!!!

You are on your way to wealth. Now this is my personal advice to you: it is not the definite end all solution, but just my personal advice.

Find a part time job that has a good market-and make it a full time job.

You will be earning much more than your blue collar job.

+1 good anecdote. Like I said in another thread to someone asking where to find work that pays $12k - 15k/month, no employers gonna pay you that amount expecting you just teh tarik and goyang kaki. Such jobs usually come with sacrifices. You need to give up something in your life usually time and/or health.


Are you a recent architectural graduate or just a draughtsman? For the latter, that's not bad. For the former, entry level architects are notoriously underpaid due to the steep learning curve. But once you earn your stripes, you can command a decent salary. You just need to hang in there and not loose your passion.