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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club - The Kop Talks 2010, DONE DEAL: WELCOME NESV,JOHN HENRY

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Duke Red
post Oct 18 2010, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(normeck @ Oct 18 2010, 03:04 PM)
can elaborate more? does this 'reputation manager' has abilty to bring their club to the top? for instance Mourinho, he manage big clubs and bring that club to the championship....
Here is an example. Rafa only came close to winning the league once in 6 seasons. Does this make him a bad coach? Reputations alone are often derived from some level of success but if that were the basis for selecting a manager, when why would Arsenal have appointed Arsene Wenger when he was only managing Nagoya Grampus Eight at the time? If we only appointed managers based on reputation, we'd only have a handful of options, hence the repetition you see whenever you ask anyone for their choice of managers.
Duke Red
post Oct 18 2010, 05:01 PM

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What scares me is this. In the games we have played at home, even when the visitors were West Brom and Blackpool, they actually came out and attacked us, seeking all 3 pts. When was the last time so called inferior opposition came to Anfield playing attacking football? The way we set out these days under Hodgson, it's as though we are afraid of them in our own home no less. Here's betting that Blackburn will come at us next week.
Duke Red
post Oct 19 2010, 11:22 AM

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It's the second time I've read that we spent a nett of $150 million on players. Can this be verified? If it is true, then it is a fair amount of money. It of course pales in comparison to the millions that the like of Chelsea and Man City have to spend but it is on par with say, Arsenal, Aston Villa and Tottenham. $25 million a season can get you 1 or 2 decent players. Now I'm no football manager and have only limited understanding when it comes to decisions that managers make, but I do feel we could have done a lot better in the transfer market. Having said that, I think the team should still have done better with the players we had and have. You don't need 11 world class players to beat the likes of Blackpool, Wigan, Reading and Sunderland at home.

QUOTE(koolspyda @ Oct 18 2010, 05:31 PM)
Time & again, many felt rafa was too micro managing LFc to the extend he appeared too powerful for LFC. players in & nitty gritty salary negotiations were usually NOT under the perview of the manager (or so i understand). Rafa was made to be too distant by players, explayers, media. basically no 'mourino-copy' in man-management. Maybe rafa made it TOO professional & it made it boring & hard to communicate to.

There are traits I dont like about rafa but I do identify that He did want TO WIN things, (not contented with draws, opps i dont mean to step on err someones toes)


I agree that he wanted to win things, he said it from day 1 and he won us Europe's biggest prize in his first season, the FA Cup in his second and got us to Athens in his third. Then, the silverware stopped but we did finish second in a season I wish we could emulate, not in terms of league position but in terms of our footballing mentality. We knew we were within an earshot of winning the title and we went at teams, and when we did, we steamrolled the likes of Man Utd at Old Trafford (4-1), Aston Villa (5-0), Blackburn (4-0), Spurs (3-1), West Ham (3-0), Newcastle (3-0). We also hit 4 past Arsenal in a high scoring 4-4 draw. In Europe we beat Real Madrid 5-0 on aggregate and hit 4 past Chelsea in another high scoring 4-4 draw. We were a team that was feared. Why we began the next season with a whimper after gathering this momentum and playing like champions I have no idea. Once again we were apprehensive in our approach to games and instead of going at teams and breaking them down like we did just 3 - 4 months before, we opted to make ourselves hard to break down and it made us less adventurous up front. The only significant difference was the absence of one Xabi Alonso but to say our fortunes took a complete change just because of one player is a poor excuse because it just shows that the team isn't playing good enough football.

QUOTE(koolspyda @ Oct 18 2010, 05:31 PM)
He, rafa would (unfortunately) have to not please anyone in order to WIN at LFC. maybe the fight with the english media got him weary. Many of the anti rafa had said he go too many excuses. I tend to look at rafa was left alone to fight at too many fronts. fighting with owners, fighting to win, fighting for more (better) players, fighting with media, fighting his critics etc. rafa had the strategy, his mind is always ON football. pre games, post games, season break, tactics. even some players have been asked to do certain things (post match), never ever contented on the players performance (even if they had a marvelous game). never pat the players shoulder when they had a fantastic game. IT's just rafa, a perfectionist. maybe TOO perfection to some whinny players?


On the flipside, one could say that Rafa chose to isolate himself. He chose not to find allies in his players, in his management team and the board. There is a fine line to toe here. On one hand, it's admirable to stand firm but you and I both know that in any corporation, you need allies and sometimes, you need to play the political game. It isn't about Rafa not having good traits, it's about others he could have adopted specifically in the area of people management.

From the viewpoint of being a perfectionist just as Rafa is, I maintain that there was room for improvement.

QUOTE(koolspyda @ Oct 18 2010, 05:31 PM)
Should rafa had been not removed, maybe we wont be still no better at the top BUT i dont think we would ever, ever at second from the bottom. His strategies may not still win games (cause he thinks we dont have the right personel) but I dont think we could be crucified at man city, lame games in blackpool, everton >insert the forgetable loses< etc


The main reason why people miss Rafa is because of where we are now. Like I said earlier, hindsight is 20/20. At the time however, I still hold my stance in that it was time for us to part ways given the circumstances. We're comparing how much better off we would be and it's easy because Roy is doing such a piss poor job so far but back then, living in the present, I find it hard to say we were not underperforming, and underachieving with the squad we had.

QUOTE(koolspyda @ Oct 18 2010, 05:31 PM)
Some felt that LFc was too foreign hence the 'pro english' came into the picture, this is where as a direct result of rafa leaving, we then to indulge sentiments. cole came in, Roy came in, out were some non-english palyers.


Doesn't explain why King Kenny wasn't appointed. Sure he's Scottish but still from the UK.

QUOTE(koolspyda @ Oct 18 2010, 05:31 PM)
we weren't thinking football but left on sentiments. I believe RH apppoinment to lfc was base on sentiments, not really football reasons (unless one might have to take in account the shortlisted candidates forward to the board, which in that context RH was & a better choice over the less forgetable list)
*
This sounds like a stretch to me. I really doubt the board, or owners at the time would put millions of pounds at risk purely on sentiment. I think it was more a case of which manager we could afford and has a proven record in the Premiership. I also think that Roy was appointed because he could work within a limited budget and was seen as being able to bring out the best from average players.

QUOTE(livingmonolith @ Oct 18 2010, 07:57 PM)
i don't know how the rage only came about now, when some fans were thinking bringing in RH to replace RB is an 'upgrade' back then. we've seen the CV, and we've seen the trophies. we can't compare the two. one was ambitious and wanted more money to succeed, the other is content to have a limited budget to play with. and now we see how the manager's expectations seep into the players' performances.


I don't see how Hodgson could have been seen as an upgrade but yeah, I did comment earlier that it was bizarre some posters thought he would win us trophies. He wasn't brought in for that. He's only on a two year contract, pretty obvious he isn't here for the long run.

QUOTE(livingmonolith @ Oct 18 2010, 07:57 PM)
for years, players like carra has overachieved in his preferred position as a CB. he was never the best, we all know that, but he overachieved. and frankly, i still remember several seasons back i mentioned that we need a CB better than carra to be able to win something i was grilled by few posters who thought i was out of my mind. the truth is, carra doesn't really make the cut and age is now catching up as well.


I'm a huge fan of Carra but not because he was ever our best player, because he is limited but because he wears his heart on his sleeve, he is an honest professional and he's down to earth. He epitomises the term "Liverpool type player". I do agree that he hasn't been cutting it since the start of last season. He is getting on but he is working on getting his coaching license and I am excited at the prospect of him being in our coaching setup. I am sentimental and it's nice to know that the old bootroom tradition may still be kept alive. I am also looking forward to hearing news on Hyypia returning as a coach. Both are honest players who have winning mentalities.


QUOTE(livingmonolith @ Oct 18 2010, 07:57 PM)
personally, i think hyypia leaving plays a bigger role, because our defense became bad in one single summer. we lost someone with a clear head in the backline, the experience to deal with difficult balls and crosses, and we lost the aerial battles. skrtel and agger may be still considered young for CBs, and the inexperience shows. carra, like i said, had overachieved beside hyypia for seasons. i used to say that skrtel is a direct replacement for carra (who was a replacement for henchoz; the player who always make the dirty tackles) while agger will replace the finn (the clean cut slower-paced player who dribbles and passes). when hyypia left skrtel went in to partner carra and we see two hotheads battling with 21 other players on the pitch whenever the ball floats near them, which in turn creating havoc in our own defensive line. hyypia saved our a$$ too many times by reading the game well (and thus ending the attacks before they become a threat) but nobody noticed that when carra was the one doing the last-ditch tackles. perhaps we took him for granted? soto is clearly not of hyypia's mold, and when the greek came in we have 3 hotheaded defenders in the squad.


As much as I like him Hyypia was struggling to keep up with the pace of the Premiership. He flourished under Houllier because we played really deep and it wasn't uncommon to see our wingers defend at the edge of our box. Hyypia was less exposed but we were always susceptible to counterattacks whenever we pushed forward because of his lack of pace. I was dumbfounded at the time when Rafa chose to pair him with Pellegrino at the back. Together, they made up the slowest pair of centrebacks I have ever seen.

Having said all that, I'm a fan of Hyypia and like I mentioned earlier, I am looking forward to see him return in a coaching capacity.

QUOTE(livingmonolith @ Oct 18 2010, 07:57 PM)
i may not be happy with the direction and ambition the club is heading now, but i won't be calling for RH's head though. we have been through worse moments. before shankly took us to the glory days, we were languishing in second division. in the end of the day, we still say the same thing, you'll never walk alone, through good and bad times.
Relegation is bad but not a tragedy. Hillsborough and Heysel, those were tragedies and nothing's worse than losing lives.


Duke Red
post Oct 19 2010, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(ProbMan @ Oct 19 2010, 12:31 PM)
RH couldn't be as bad as what people think he is. If people have abit of thought like/such as Rafa managing Fulham, will the outcome be better? I don't think so... Or playing for a derby game on opponents' ground (troubling time with a bunch of crybabies superstars to the addition), what dya expect a "sure win"? RH says even a coach with a magic wand won't save u guys, man...Have some patience and at least move up the table from Home games with some "faith" mentality because EPL is still a long way to go.
*
Thing is it's a little more than that. If you delve a little deeper, you'll see that Hodgson's tactics and team selections are questionable to say the least. He plays 2 defensive midfielders at home. He opts for hoofers rather than passers, with the classic example being his constant preference for Carra and Skrtel over Agger. He doesn't press, allowing the opposition to run at Skrtel and Carra who are slow on the turn. He plays 2 strikers and then isolates them by playing a deep midfield. It's baffling. In the press, he makes bizzare comments. If the game against Everton is his definition of good play, we're looking at relegation for sure.

Faith to me needs to be based on a little logic, or it will be called blind faith. I don't have blind faith and from what I'm seeing, I don't even have faith.
Duke Red
post Oct 19 2010, 02:10 PM

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QUOTE(ProbMan @ Oct 19 2010, 01:59 PM)
1) Every club has the same expectation or dreams of lifting the EPL crown.


Each and every season, expectations are high at Anfield. The media will always build us up as potential title contenders and fans sometimes buy into the hype. Fact of the matter is that Liverpool are only a top four side by reputation. Before the season began, I saw many optimistic posters certain that we would be in with a title shot. While it's good to be optimistic, it's bad to raise ones expectations to an unrealistic level. Other fans buy into this hype and start to overreact whenever the team doesn't perform to their expectations. This is why I've always urged fans to do their own research and form realistic expectations of their own. I know a few posters who saw this coming when Hodgson was appointed, and I also know some who thought he'd win us the Premiership. In the end having unrealistic expectations isn't healthy for a club and it's fan base.

QUOTE(ProbMan @ Oct 19 2010, 01:59 PM)
2) Best manager has to come with the best fans.


Don't quite get this. Car to elaborate?

QUOTE(ProbMan @ Oct 19 2010, 01:59 PM)
3) Once again, playing on opponent's ground Derby. It's Everton, man...with all those accumulative hormones through the years of just wanting to beat u guys.


It isn't that we lost, it is the manner in which we lost. Was it 2-3 seasons ago that we were pounded 3-0 there but the lads at least put up a fight. The players were up for it unlike this time round where we looked content to sit deep, inviting pressure on to ourselves. In derby games, attitude and spirit gives you an edge and we lacked noth.

QUOTE(ProbMan @ Oct 19 2010, 01:59 PM)
4) 90 points so what? Tottenham has experienced it before and they are still here.


What has Tottenham got to do with Liverpool?

QUOTE(ProbMan @ Oct 19 2010, 01:59 PM)
5) Liverpool is already a crisis club...with these kinda fans, it will be even worse.
With the debt and new owners singing the right tune coming in, I feel a cloud has been lifted and Liverpool are now a club rebuilding from scratch so I wouldn't term us as a club in crisis. Our performance on the pitch will pick up but it isn't going to be instant and if I were to make a prediction, it won't be under Hodgson. I doubt he'll still be there come Christmas.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Oct 19 2010, 02:13 PM
Duke Red
post Oct 19 2010, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(cksoon @ Oct 19 2010, 02:24 PM)
QUOTE(ProbMan @ Oct 19 2010, 01:59 PM)


2) Best manager has to come with the best fans.

Get your facts right dude, are you saying we're not one of the best fans around? all the best to you then..
*
It isn't a "fact" that we are the best fans, and honestly, self praise is no praise. We don't need to force people to believe it, we need to act in a manner which reflects it. It's easy to talk the talk but let's walk the walk shall we?

Incidentally, I don't think he is a Liverpool fan.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Oct 19 2010, 02:30 PM
Duke Red
post Oct 19 2010, 02:55 PM

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Interesting article this.


I must say that he loves the club for the right reasons. It wasn't about the success on the pitch. His first connection with the club wasn't when we lifted a cup but when the Hillsborough disaster occured.

QUOTE
How Joe Januszewski's love of Liverpool helped spark American rescue mission
The man who inspired New England Sports Ventures’ bid to buy Liverpool did so because he wanted to follow his dream.

By Rory Smith
Published: 7:30AM BST 19 Oct 2010

Joe Januszewski, the senior vice-president who runs the corporate sales team at Fenway Park, home of the Boston Red Sox, sent an email to John W Henry, owner of NESV, suggesting the company look into buying Liverpool.

“It was as a fan, really, but also as a businessman who follows sport,” he said. “I told him that we should take a look at this opportunity.”

Henry’s interpretation is rather more blunt: “I thought it was more like ‘save my club’!”

Januszewski’s is no passing fancy. His first game was a 1-0 Anfield defeat to Manchester United in January 2005 and, crucial to his credentials, he was in Istanbul five months later to see them win the Champions League. His support, though, is much more deep-rooted.

His interest in football springs from living in what was then West Germany during the 1974 World Cup, and his first connection with Liverpool came from seeing news footage of the Hillsborough disaster after his return to the United States.

“I remember my mother crying,” he says. “I do not have to tell you about the horrific imagery. There was a Liverpool emotional connection, as a child who grew up loving football and having a dad who loved The Beatles.

“Then, one night at university, I was in a bar with some English expats and they were extolling the virtues of the mighty Reds. You get wrapped up in the history. I am a sports fan. I love the passion that comes with it.

“My first game, [Wayne] Rooney scored a soft goal in front of the Kop.

"Everyone was screaming at him and he pulled the Shrek ears. I was in the Main Stand, hearing You’ll Never Walk Alone and thinking to myself ‘I’ve picked the right club’.

“People walk into my office at Fenway Park and there is a solid Liverpool representation on my wall. There’s souvenirs, tickets. They look at me to ask what the deal is, and I tell them baseball is my business but Liverpool is my passion.”
It's why I keep advocating the importance of history. You will develop a stronger emotional attachment to the club.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Oct 19 2010, 02:57 PM
Duke Red
post Oct 19 2010, 03:11 PM

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Here you go Mike.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...ue-mission.html
Duke Red
post Oct 19 2010, 06:47 PM

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The reason why Babel hasn't been up to mark isn't because he's lacking in ability. It's because of the football we play. We often play the ball to feet instead of into space. We also launch a good number of long balls for our forward to chase down. We also display hesitancy going forward, and are sometimes guilty of not providing enough support to our forwards. I'm betting that Babel will flourish at a team like Arsenal who play free flowing attacking football with players getting forward to support the attack.
Duke Red
post Oct 19 2010, 07:05 PM

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QUOTE(REDShaun @ Oct 19 2010, 06:58 PM)
which is also why Arsenal will be the first to snap him up i think
*
Where the heck have you been mate? Not seen you at games for ages.
Duke Red
post Oct 20 2010, 10:26 AM

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QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Oct 20 2010, 02:48 AM)
STOP. THINK. FIGHT isn't just a slogan. it isn't just about keeping the faith. Its not about screaming "You'll Never Walk Alone" and just be at it, hoping everything will turn fine.


I thoroughly agree with this statement. My temperature reaches boiling point each time I read, "it's going to be alright" type statements with absolutely no justification. Why is it going to be alright? THINK to me represents the fact that as fans we cannot blindly follow. I think the club has too much respect for the fans which is why they want to give us a voice where it matters, in the boardroom. The club doesn't treat us as mere lemmings that believe everything we read in the papers. We are used to hearing managers go, "I am confident we'll bounce back", "I guarantee a top four finish", and "there is no disharmony within the club". Fact of the matter is that being as passionate as we are, we go to great lengths to do our own research and when things don't add up, we aren't shy to speak out. The club comes first. Anything and anyone who puts the future of the club at jeopardy will be scrutinised.

I have also come across another bunch who claim that those who speak out against players or managers aren't true supporters, because we should back anyone and anything Liverpool. STOP and THINK. Which is the true fan? One that deludes himself into thinking that problems will go away and everything will be alright, or one who speaks up when he thinks the well being of the club is being threatened. Fact is that if you feel strongly enough about something, you simply will not be able to keep yourself from speaking up. If you are sick enough of the politicking in our country for example, you will vote, you will take some form of action, you will FIGHT. Those of you in this camp, do reasses yourself.

QUOTE(hyperyouth_firepower @ Oct 20 2010, 02:48 AM)
For Bob Paisley, he had a task to take over the reins of a man who rebuilt Liverpool F.C single-handedly. It does draw parallel resemblence to today's scenario where "after Rafa, who?" debate. Tell me that isn't a problem.


Paisley had it much worse. He had to succeed the man who set the foundations for the Liverpool club we know today. He had to succeed a man who turned us from a mediocre Second Division side, into champions of Europe. You can't top that. I wouldn't do a like for like comparison and draw a parallel here simply because Rafa had not made the impact Bill Shankly did. Everything went downhill after King Kenny stepped down. He didn't leave us high and dry as many managers do these days though. He left us 10 points clear at the top of the league at the time. We all know what happened after. Since then, no one has come close to replicating the era of dominance we had under Shankly, Paisley, Fagan, and Dalglish. I simply do not think that life after Rafa is as tough because he didn't or wasn't allowed to leave a legacy behind.

Wayne Rooney
Indulge me as I digress for awhile. I would have posted this on the Man Utd thread but I figured it would cause too much of an emotion amongst younger posters who choose not to THINK. I figure we'll have a better discussion here and the Man Utd posters to do THINK would indulge here as well.

It's no secret I never liked him and I figure it's the same with almost every Liverpool fan but here's why. It isn't just because he played for Everton or Man Utd. I mean I think the likes of Ryan Giggs and Paul Scholes are good honest professionals. If I were to sum up his career so far, these would be the landmark moments for me:-

- Born a proud Scouser who realised his dream of playing for his boyhood club. Even wore a "Once a Blue, Always a Blue" t-shirt under his jersey.
- Left for Man Utd because of a combination of factors; a) he wanted to realise him ambition, fairplay, and b) the club needed the cash - win, win.
- The moment to me, made me lose all respect for him. In a match against Everton at Goodison Park, he clattered into Mikel Arteta and after being cautioned by the referee, proceed to kiss the badge of his new employers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aa2cxhki3QU). Sure he was frustrated at getting a yellow, but you simply don't do that to the club you supported as a kid and you do not celebrate when you score against them. It's wrong, plain and simple. He has since kissed the very same badge on numerous occasions telling me he loves the club.
- I guess that like any young kid his age, it was puppy love because now it appears he's lured by lust of starting another love affair and maybe, just maybe, the incentive of $250,000 pounds a week has something to do with it.

Maybe I'm being too judgemental but it's easy because I was never a fan of his in the first place. I can understand why mancs defended his actions at Goodison, but some neutrals may have saw it coming. If you can ditch the one you love once, you can always do it again.
Duke Red
post Oct 20 2010, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ Oct 20 2010, 10:20 AM)
1) Supporters have NO RIGHT at the moment to demand a place on the board. NONE AT ALL. Not until we seriously cough up some hard cash to buy some shares. This is ALMOST AS STUPID as someone demanding for NESV to not have any representation on the board. Wake up and smell them roses or whatever - LIFE IS NOT A CHARITY. doh.gif
Look at it this way. Who buys the tickets? Who shells out for pay tv? Who buys the clubs merchandise? The fans do contribute to the club's coffers. Sure we each contribute only a microscopic amount as individuals but if you look at fans and combine us all into a single entity, the contribution is huge. Take tickets as an example. How much per ticket at Anfield? Let's say an average of $35 pounds. We have 44,000 seats. That's $1,540,000 pounds per game that fans contribute. Pretty significant I say. If we were all one single fan, does it make much of a difference if we bought shares or tickets?
Duke Red
post Oct 20 2010, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ Oct 20 2010, 11:29 AM)
Do you buy say Adidas sneakers? Well, a lot of people do, which means everyone has a right to be a shareholder?


Not by law but it's like I said earlier, if you consider that all fans are one single entity, his contribution will be immense and yes, he could potentially buy a major stake in Adidas. I'm not saying it's exactly the same thing but it's good to feel appreciated, no? By virtue of even considering to give the fans a voice, it shows that the owners realise how important the fans are to the club.

QUOTE(madmoz @ Oct 20 2010, 11:29 AM)
The thing is, the club has sold its soul the moment it signed that premier league agreement. Might sound terrible, but we are essentially 'customers' at the moment. Call me disenchanted, but I am beginning to see the club as nothing more than a business and myself being not a supporter of the club, but a supporter of the fans/community surrounding it (as odd as that sounds).


Agreed. John Henry didn't mince his words when he said they aim to capitalise on the huge market we have here in Asia. What you've just said doesn't sound odd to me at all. I've always maintained that I am a fan of Liverpool fans as much as I am a fan of Liverpool FC.

QUOTE(madmoz @ Oct 20 2010, 11:29 AM)
NESV paid good money to get rid off the two muppets. I do not think for a moment that they'll appreciate it for the fans to start saying "Thanks for your help, that'll be 2 boardroom seats." or even "Here's xxx million quid. We demand a boardroom seat." Sounds a lot like the 'ketuanan - we were here first' crap spouted by certain quarters here in Malaysia.

Fan ownership is a worthy goal, but a distant one at the moment. If we were really serious about it, we should perhaps form some sort of business entity, gather the funds and then approach NESV. Not with plans, blueprints etc, but with a pool of cold hard cash. A business proposition, not a forced demand. It is a pity that many fans do not see it that way. Sigh.


2 sides of a coin, just like in most other situations. I choose to look at it from the perspective of a fan. What is in the best interest of the club may not always be visible to us as fans but I trust that whoever it nominated by the fans, has a good understanding of club operations. If he doesn't, then he will by virtue of being involved. Might even help manage unreasonable expectations of all other fans.

Duke Red
post Oct 20 2010, 01:47 PM

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Hmmm Rijkaard may not be a bad choice. After a slow start to his career at Barcelona, he really turned their fortunes around by clearing house, and bringing in new players from abroad and the youth team. We're in need of housekeeping at the moment.
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post Oct 20 2010, 02:24 PM

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In my eyes, the remotest possibility of even considering Rooney as a Liverpool player is ludicrous. Sure, logic would dictate that he'll be a good spoiler for Torres but are we going to shell out $250,000 quid a week for him? No chance in hell. Would he even consider Liverpool? Well he's loved Everton, Man Utd and whoever's going to sign him next, so maybe. Sentiment does play a huge role especially involving players from rival clubs and he's played for two of our biggest. Under no circumstances will I be able to fantom the thought of seeing him wear a Liverbird on his chest. Too many badge kissing mercenaries in today's game.

On a more positive note, he does have the right spirit but the cons far outweigh the pros. He has taken every opportunity to goad us whenever he's scored at Anfield as has the likes of Neville, Mourinho, Lampard and Drogba. Yes despite all this, we see the word, "class' thrown about. You want a class act? Jamie Carragher is your man. Rooney is a class player but certainly not a class act.


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post Oct 20 2010, 03:20 PM

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Here's a letter from the editor of RAWK to John Henry.

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Suffice to say, if you do love your club enough, you will take action when you see injustice being done. If anything the mancs and us share some commonalities here. Despite the denial of certain posters, fans from both clubs formed protests. My uncle who is in UK sold all his shares when the Glazers took over. This was his way of protesting. Others took to the streets, demanding for the removal of both sets of owners.

Enough of the mancs, I don't pretend to understand their views on supporting a club. Whether they choose to do more than just picket in the streets is up to then because ultimately, decisions are made higher up and if Hicks and Gillet are anything to go buy, I can assure you the Glazers aren't going to be pressured or swayed by protest marches. Back to Liverpool. Supporters banded together and took it upon themselves to explore more organised channels, after forming a management committee. The effort alone is commendable. Too many people these days take the route of inaction simply because they do not believe they can make a difference. It's like our elections, no? "Aiyah vote for what? Make so much noise for what? What's the point?". Too many think this way. It's similar when it comes to forming a little club like MyRAWK. It was our passion for the club and love for watching games together that was our inspiration. Similarly, it is the passion and love for Liverpool FC that spurred supporter groups into action when the foundation of our club was shaken.

Once again I draw upon comments made like, "eh you complain complain, how can you call yourself a Liverpool fan? just support lah". Bollocks. It's easier not to do anything under the pretense that it'll make no difference, or it means you aren't a real fan, as opposed to actually doing something. Classic case of talking the talk but not walking the walk.

I guess you could say that in some ways, Shankly spoilt us. He made the people feel like part of the club. He was always talking to fans and always taking their interests to heart. He truly made the people happy. Because of this, we feel that this is our club even though we don't own any shares as madmoz mentioned earlier. Shankly understood though that the club was nothing without it's fans. It is the same these days, just that there is a whole layer of fat between the club and it's fans now. Whilst some football clubs are run like hobbies, others are run like businesses. It is all about profitability and just how can a club's owner attract sponsors, partners and other investors if the club has no support? It's the same. The club still needs it's fanbase and as such, they still need to make us happy. Then of course the definition of "happy" differs. Some don't care about what happens behind closed doors and are happy just so long as they continue to win trophies. Others do care. If the latter did not exist, clubs like Spurs and Newcastle wouldn't have any supporters.

Let me comment on the last few pharagraphs of that letter.

QUOTE
For Bill Shankly, of course, it was part of the team – the famous ‘12th man’. But it’s a creature of improvisation. Nobody handed out song sheets, told the Kopites to wear scarves, asked them to bring flags. They just did these things. The place grew to what it was pretty much because it was left alone to express the spirit of the city.

All the club did – and it was hugely important – was to keep ticket prices as low as possible so that the beating heart of the club – working-class Liverpool - could afford to stand on its steps and latterly sit on its seats. We hope and expect when we move to a new stadium in the park, or renovate and upgrade Anfield (a groundshare with Everton will never be accepted of course), that those people will not be priced out.

Those who are able to spend a lot of money on Liverpool FC merchandise and corporate boxes, and those who maintain the culture of the club, which so impresses the world, are not always the same people. Don’t lose touch with what’s important.
Sadly, the fact of the matter is that ticket prices will go up, how can they not? It is about profit. For every working-class Kopite who can't afford tickets, there is a wealthy OOT waiting in the wings. It will be nice to strike a balance. I'd really hate for Anfield to one day be filled with fans who need to be handed flags and song books on matchdays. I do purchase what LFC merchandise I can and I will also do what I can to preserve the traditions of the club. The two are not mutually exclusive.


Added on October 20, 2010, 3:39 pmThis was posted on RAWK.

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Added on October 20, 2010, 3:53 pmJoe Januszewski's name has been on the tip of every Liverpool fan's tongue lately. He is fast becoming known as the man responsible for NESV's interest in the club. Here is the full interview with him. It's a really nice read.

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Liverpool isn't without it's fair share of stories and who knows? This one may just resonate through the corridors of eternity.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Oct 20 2010, 03:55 PM

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