To be fair, Morientes was banging in the goals everywhere he went. He was out on loan to Monaco prior to joining us and was scoring for fun. I for one thought he was a really good signing at the time but he failed to come to terms with the pace of the Premiership.

On a side note can we all be more accommodating to other fans that post here? I really hate the "kalau kau tak suka, keluar!" type treatment.

Put it this way. If they sell now, they lost $144 million pounds. If they go to court, they still have a chance at proving that the proposed sale was done in an unlawful manner. Having said that Hicks is having problems finding a finance of his RBS loan. He has already defaulted on his $75 million pound loan from Mill Financial who now basically own his 50% share in the club, at least until RBS calls for them to pay up in the next few days. I think it delays the ineviteable for Hicks and I do think NESV will be our new owners by the end of the week.

Yes it is a given that RBS wants their money back which is why Hicks is using the court case to delay the ineviteable as he tries to look for finance. Unless he can do so, the club will be sold either way. If NESV walks away, the club will go into administration and will still be sold eventually, possibly to NESV or this other mystery investor supposedly linked to us. In terms of points deduction, from what I understand it isn't Liverpool Football Club and Atheletics Ground Ltd (the club itself) that goes into administration, it is the holding company, Kop Football Ltd that will which is why some articles have suggested that there will be no 9 point deduction even if we do go into administration.

Not something that has gone un-noticed.

I had mentioned earlier that our forwards are too isolated, hence the long ball approach Agger in particular criticised. There is a huge void in midfield especially with both holding midfielders constrained to their own half. Also, against Blackpool in particular we were guilty of dropping off players, instead of pressing them. It's probably why we're so porous at the back because our defenders keep getting turned inside-out.

Thanks for presenting some really interesting facts. I did read earlier that there were 17 investors backing John Henry but the article never mentioned who they were. John Henry as I read it, has a personal wealth of around $350 million pounds and was never going to be able to clear our debt on his own.

I too have wondered what Hicks expects to get out of this whole saga. Either way, he stands to lose millions, unless of course he can miraculously cough up the funds to refinance. Siffuce to say, I'll be elated to see the back of him and that dwarf, Gillet.

When this is all over, we will finally have a future again and morale within the club will improve. Right now, even one as loyal as Reina is reportedly unsettled. It's been a turbulent time not just for the players but for the fans as well. From the dark days under Souness, the period of rebuilding under Evans, the false indication of a new dawn under Houllier, the elation of winning club football's biggest prize in truly dramatic fashion, the high of coming so close to the elusive no. 19, the turmoil under new ownership that brought down from the heavens a dark cloud of uncertainty, and now a ray of light appears to be peaking through the thick black fog. I said a few months back that I'd see you all on the other side of the storm, maybe it's time.

Not only NESV. John Henry has 17 other investors backing him. Happy days. Now we can focus on building a future. If things go as planned and we get a new stadium while focusing on youth development, all these years of taking stick from mancs will come to and end. Won't happen in the next couple of years though so patience is required.

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Added on October 16, 2010, 9:32 amYou wouldn't be pissed if you found out you've just effectively lost $140 million pounds? It's perfectly understandable that he is a little peeved but it's like I said before, serves him right.

Like it or not, he did give us some money to buy players. So far no one has been able to dispute the $150 million pound nett spending figure. To be fair it's a bit of sour grapes from us as well because we expected a massive cash flow injection ala Abramovich. Tom & Jerry did say they'd spend which but it was more a case of not telling the whole truth than it was a lie. I'm just afraid that John Henry will receive the same treatment from posters here for not going ballistic in the transfer market. To reiterate he had already said that he'd adopt the Arsenal model which means making smart little investments over time.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Oct 16 2010, 09:32 AM

The process of rebuilding isn't as short as some may think unfortunately. These days some people think it's merely about buying players but it isn't just that is it?

I think that stadium expansion or relocation is a must because it will translate into tens of millions of pound in a single season. There is also no shortage of fans wanting to flock into Anfield and the fact that there is a long waiting list spanning years is testament of this.

The commercial aspect of the club also needs looking into. We are talking everything from expanding communication touchpoint with fans whether it be over social online or traditional media, to physical stores where merchandise can be made available.

In terms of players we have to look longer term and think about forming agreements with various academies or sports promoters around the globe to uncover gems at a young age, inviting them for a weeks trial or so with the option of joining the academy. I know for a fact that Tottenham in particular has a similar programme running right here in Malaysia where they take selected kids from here over to England for trials.

My 2 cents for now.

There was mention of increasing Anfield's capacity by about 20,000 which will bring in additional revenue of what? $400,000 pounds per game depending on who we are playing. I don't know how they plan to expand it though given the close proximity of houses. Upwards perhaps?

Nice aerial shot. Gives one a good of how close Goodison Park is. I'd much rather stay at Anfield as well and am anxious to see how they plan to expand. Parking is going to be a b**** and traffic will be way heavier. Another two points to consider

Access in and out of Anfield is tight. When I left after the Arsenal game, traffic going back into the city was heavy as the roads are really narrow.

He spoke out in response to criticism directed at him by Rafa which is understandable. Everyone likes to play the blame game.

Like some of you, I wasn't exactly jumping up and down when I heard of Hodgson's appointment. I was in fact rather surprised to read some posters creaming themselves just because he took Fulham to last year's Europa Cup Final. In 2005 our Champions League win masked the fact that we finished 5th, a massive 37 points away from winners, Chelsea and worse still, 3 points behind Everton. In terms of Hodgson's over achieving Fulham side last season, they finished in 12th, 40 points behind winners, Chelsea, and managing only 1 away win. If anything these occurances prove that cup form is an entire different proposition from league form. Hodgson has had decent success especially out in Scandanavia but let me quote the phrase, "Big Fish in Small Pond". He is clearly out of his depth at the moment and I wasn't surpised to see him constantly rubbing his chin after we went behind at Everton.

He is also deluded if he thinks the reason we played better in the 2nd half was down to tactics. Like many other teams that go into the break holding a lead, Everton let us have the ball and invited us to attack, hoping to expose our frail defence with the pace of Yakubu and Beckford later on. They let us play, don't kid yourself Roy. We were absolutely abysmal in the opening 20 minutes, failing to get out of our own half. Everton pressed us each time we had the ball, something we used to do but Hodgon seems to prefer getting men behind the ball, inviting pressure. No coincidence we have a negative goal difference worse than Wolves then eh? Our defending was shambolic at times as defenders failed to pick up players. If you ask me, Skrtel was guilty of ball watching as Cahill ghosted in behind him for Everton's opening goal. Konchesky was easily beaten for pace and instead of picking up Cahill, Skrtel opted to move towards the near post. Please oh please play Dagger when he returns from injury. Agger is the only ball-playing centrehalf we have and his knack of bringing the ball up will be refreshing in-light of our preference to hoof it up the park to no one. I don't really blame the likes of Cole and Torres for not playing particularly well because they often have to fight for route 1 balls, and when the ball is played to feet, it is often behind them when both prefer to run at defenders. We are not fully utilising their ability as in the case of Jari Litmanen under Gerard Houllier.

Hodgson is simply overwhelmed. He comes across as an old man who rambles on at the dinner table, but is ignored by everyone else who continues with their own conversations. He lacks charisma and at big clubs who have players with reputations, you need charisma. It doesn't appear to me that he has the respect of the players or the fans. It is why I thought that tactical knowledge aside, Dalglish would have been the better option despite not being in management for some time. Dalglish commands great respect as a player and also as a manager. He also has a special place in the heart of all Liverpool fans after attending numerous funerals after Hillsborough. When he talks, you listen.

I'm glad that John W Henry made an appearance although he said he'd rather save it for a home game. Though we lost in humiliating fashion, I feel like a huge burden has been lifted off our shoulders what with our debt being cleared and all. As I've said before, rebuilding will take time and we should not expect our results to change instantaneously. Time is relative and these days, it means months, not years but it will take years. John W Henry I reckon, will chart long term plans. If any of you get stick from a rival fan for being in the relegation zone, hoping for us to get relegated, I hope you turn a blind eye because you know that it's early days in the season and I don't see us getting relegated by any stretch of the imagination. Don't pay attention to insults when they come from someone who feels that supporting a club is all about winning trophies and whose interpretation of a barren run is 3 games without a win. You didn't start supporting the club because we were winning things and you sure as hell won't stop because we aren't.

I am personally growing tired of this pro vs. anti Rafa crap. Yes there were posters who were calling for his head, and there is little doubt they are the same ones calling for Hodgson's head now. There were those of us who despite stating reasons for his leaving which were never refuted, who keep getting lumped into the same category. MyRAWK met last night and we had a discussion on this, one such participant is a 30 year long Liverpool fan who lived there. We shared the opinion that despite the situation with the owners, Rafa was losing it. So who is right? The players were unmotivated as they are now, the team was underperforming as they are now and the pressure was clearly getting to Rafa, and this was evident in his spats with other managers in the media. From the logical perspective of being a good coach, there is also some doubt over questionable tactics and substitutions. So while you may take the piss out of those who thought is was time for him to go, you must also look at yourself for thinking he can do no wrong. I find all this constant"see lah now, ask for Rafa to go and we're shit" type remarks childish. Why?

Just because I thought it was time for Rafa and us to part ways, it doesn't mean I wanted Roy Hodgson in the hot seat. One may be the consequence of the other, but one did not happen because of the other. Is there any indication that our situation would be better off if Rafa stayed? It's theoratical. It is a matter of opinion and just as you would like someone to respect your opinion, please respect ours even if you don't like it. If you think my points were invalid or made without thought, that's your perogative. I have personally been biting my lip for some time now reading all these accusations and it has got to me, I must admit. I like debating subjects, and I like to do so with some degree of objectivity. What I've found is that some choose extremes and if you aren't right, you must be wrong. It's so easy to come down hard on anyone that didn't share your opinion back then back because of where we are in the table now but would it still be the same if we were in the top half of the table?

Do I feel that Rafa is to blame like Hicks says? No I don't. Circumstances made it seem that way. Was he unfairly treated? Perhaps. Would he have taken us further? That I doubt simply because when there is a friction between player and manager, it is difficult to repair. I am greatful to Rafa for all he did and I am happy he's contented and less stressed at Inter but we need to move on and not continue with this whole "I told you so", or " I hope you're happy now" routine.

This is true. It would have been fair if the situation in which he was placed, was ideal, just like his first 2 season in charge but what people don't get is that the circumstances no longer made it possible for him to stay. He was offered to leave on mutual consent, an offer which he took. It shows that even he thought that he couldn't work given the situation at the time. So what if he was the greatest manager in the world? If he wasn't happy, he would never be able to meet the expectations placed on him. He was under pressure all the time.

No but the way some of the posts sound, it's as though anyone who had a negative thing to say about Rafa, wanted Hodgson in. Can't remember it being a packaged deal e.g. Owen --> Nunez.

Let me rephrase what you said, "there was a lack of known candidates" to succeed him. Had anyone heard of Wenger, Houllier or Mourinho before they arrived on English shores? If you ask a fan for candidates, you'd hear the same names being tossed around. Capello, Hiddink, Hitzfeld, Scolari, Mourinho, etc. How many even heard of Rafa Benitez before we appointed him? I'll be the first to admit I never read about him prior. I'd like to borrow a term I read in the papers when Real Madrid appointed Jose Mourinho as manager. It said that Mourinho was the first Galatico manager Real had appointed. How many managers can any of us name without the help of google? When you have that answer, think about how many football clubs there are in the world. Yes, there were no obvious choices to replace Benitez bar Dalglish, Pellegrini or Hodgson but that doesn't mean there weren't any at all. Bala himself has been crying John Toshack for the longest time now but he isn't a popular choice is he? The only manager I can vouch for is King Kenny because I know his mere presence would have galvanised the club and I've seen his Liverpool team in the past. I have always avoided topics like, "who should replace Rafa?", or "which player we should buy" because I'll be the first to admit that I don't know enough about managers or tactics that they deploy as I only watch the Premiership. I don't know enough about players I haven't seen and I am not going to use youtube as a reference point. It would seem however that I am alone because there appear to be many experts in that field, the same experts to who feel that only the big obvious managers were capable enough to take the Anfield helm.

He also brought back Sammy Lee and Robbie Fowler endearing himself to Liverpool fans, myself included.

You miss my point however. Just because I thought it was time for him to go, doesn't mean he isn't a legend of sorts in my books. The atmosphere in and around Anfield was and still is to a lesser extent, toxic. It was at the time, best for both parties to go our separate ways because neither was happy with the other. Did anyone forsee that the situation would change and we'd have new owners by now? Maybe some fortune tellers did, the same ones that foresaw Hodgson's appointment the moment Rafa left but I sure as hell didn't. Hindsight is always 20/20.

What posters fail to see time and time again is that despite any logical reason for Rafa to stay, the situation at the time meant it was better not to.

They did have good reputations because of what they did however, I personally only started reading about them after hearing them mentioned as potential candidates. I'd hate to think that our board selects managers on the same basis. I'd like to think that they would have done their research and scoured the globe for a suitable candidate whether it be a manager who won the league in Brazil, Turkey, France or Holland.



It could have been Jurgen Klinsmann because my point is that not many of us would be able to articulate why or why not? How many can tell us what formation Deschamps favours or what kind of players he likes? I can't. It's like I said earlier, many of us select our candidates based on reputation, not ability. There may be the occasional genius but I'm not one of them.

That he does. To be fair, Wales aren't exactly brimming with talented players.

Well I myself have no idea what his reasons for favouring Toshack are, except that he was a Kop legend but like you say, so is Dalglish.

My post was directed at anyone taking the mickey out of those of us who thought that Rafa had taken us as far as he could. What blew my top however is indirect accusations that Hodgson's appointment was our fault. If you look at koolspyda's (whom I've met in person) posts, it always ends with "hope you anti-Rafa supporters are happy". I don't like to snap at people I've met personally, so I hope he can explain to me how Hodgson's appointment was the direct result of Rafa leaving?