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Science Sound Beat, Acoustical Engineering

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Awakened_Angel
post Sep 14 2010, 02:08 PM

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they interpolate each other... and we call them "beat"

e.g. a very very similar frequency say 110hz and 111hz

another parameter also come into play... magnitude

it is the timing of the frequency that determine the magnitude

say,

frequency A at 60Hz so, it osccillate oen time every 1/60second... with maximum magnitude of 10dBa

frequency B at 61hz which osccilate at 1/61second per one cycle with magnitude of 10dBa as well....

so, B is faster than A...

when the time is 10 second, A has reach 1/6 time of its magnitude say.. 1.6666666666.....

same for B at 10 second with magnitude of 1.6393443dBa

the two wave travelling at different speed and SO, there will be time where one is at +ve and the other is -ve


as for this 10 second case, both is at positive, so the total magnitude is A + B at 10 second interval....

it is the totally identical Hz with the natural Hz that we known as resonance

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 14 2010, 02:10 PM
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 14 2010, 02:57 PM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Sep 14 2010, 03:31 PM)
Thank you. Being an engineer, you have given a scientific answer. Unfortunately, I do not have a good background in science. I only understood

I am specifically looking at it from a music point of view. I am trying to get the computer to play a tune by sending a certain frequency to the speaker. For example, the note Do (261.626hz) and the note Re (293.665hz) were to be played simultaneously, what is the resulting frequency?
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refer to the links

user posted image

from the simple eg that ai worked out, it is seen that resultant is that the magnitude reach 0 when t=5sec which mean, t(resultant) take 10sec for one full cycle

so, you have it.. 10sec for one cycle

so, the frequency is 1/10 Hz

(I just agak agak put the numbers only, might not be accurate & not making any sense at all biggrin.gif )

it is the same...

to get the total resultant, you need to work out the two frequency so they interpolate with each other

take this laymen example:

A person.. small girl
B person... adult male

both of them scream at the same time standing side by side at totally different magnitude(loudness) and frequency

there aretiems where the adult`s voice would be louder or lesser than nromal.. due to the girl`s voice amplify or neutralise the magnitude due to interpolating of both wave



This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 14 2010, 03:03 PM
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 15 2010, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Sep 15 2010, 01:08 PM)
"horizontal summation"?

where you come out with this?

QUOTE
You are giving me an answer in magnitude measure by dBa (as written by your y axis). I was looking for an answer in hertz.


you can calculate the F from the graph after you interpolate the resultant

QUOTE
I guess if you sum f(A) and f(b) horizontally you will get another function say f(d)
wrong concept... direct summation does not yield the accurate result

QUOTE

This dBa which I guess is a measure of volume? While I can understand volume = 0 (meaning no noise), I am not sure what negative volume means.


what is sound? Sound is define as molecular`s vibration that is detectable by human ear.... the dBa is the intensity on how strong the thing vibrate/osccilate

QUOTE
Do they really ossilate up and down the zero?
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not quite... take this simple example...

take a ruler... hold it with your hand and left the other half in open air.. now, use your other hand to hit the free end. It will swing right? up, center, down again and again.. until the energy that you apply are used to fight the plasticity of the ruler & against air resistance/drag

now, when that ruler swing, it distort the air around you(same goes to speaker) and alas, our mortal ear could not pickup this wave at all frequency at all magnitude....

as for the ruler, it swing up and down, when it is up, we consider it as +ve and down as -ve while center as 0

P/S here`s another simple test

apparatus: 2 human, 1 rope
method: each human hold the rope at each end, both would swing the rope at different speed & power(magnitude)

result.. see for yourself

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 15 2010, 02:09 PM
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 20 2010, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Sep 20 2010, 11:51 AM)

Let me see if it is the same as interpolating. We will take an easier example. Graph 1 is y = x^2 (^ means to the power of in this case y=x squared). Graph 2 is y = 50. If you interpolate both the graphs would you get y = x^2 + 50?
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close.....
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 20 2010, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Sep 20 2010, 12:44 PM)
Now can you tell me given a frequency and magnitute how do I get the above graphs?
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it is an idealised motion. Such constant, uninterupted graph is hard to obtain in the real world
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 20 2010, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Sep 20 2010, 03:57 PM)
Then tell me how to a get an ideallised motion?
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read me.. you will NEVER get it. IF you can get it, it wont be known as IDEALised

what you can do is to get closer and closer to it

P/S it is like you ask me. what is my Ideal Wife? sure is pretty, perfect body shape, fine complexion, knows how to cook, knows how to dress nicely, considerate, manja manja with you, good on bed brows.gif , what else?

and you ask me, how to find this woman? I also want to know... doh.gif



This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 20 2010, 03:29 PM
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 20 2010, 10:09 PM

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You are giving heavy stuff la.. hard to digest laugh.gif

QUOTE(faceless @ Sep 14 2010, 03:31 PM)
. Unfortunately, I do not have a good background in science. I only understood
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Awakened_Angel
post Sep 20 2010, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(befitozi @ Sep 20 2010, 11:11 PM)
That's what the applets are for =D
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P/S I have all returned my mathematics to my lecturers.... after 5 years into business, I only left with the theory & formulae.... compared to tedious & complicated mathematical solving skills.... rclxub.gif
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 24 2010, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Sep 24 2010, 02:26 PM)

Heavy math stuff is not a problem. No matter how a number is transformed into another number it can usually be traced back to plus and minus. From there you go to divide and multiply and subsequently to exponentials ...  Heavy science stuff is a problem because I did not go to science streem. I lack the knowledge of the fundamentals to move from concept A to Concept Z.
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if this is true, and you comprehend what I meant, then you are a talented science minded person indeed biggrin.gif

Awakened_Angel
post Oct 5 2010, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(faceless @ Oct 5 2010, 12:15 PM)
I have done some homework and I am stuck.

These stuff are base on the second link Befitozi provided
A pure tone can be written as a cosinusoidal signal of amplitude , frequency , and phase angle. Frequency  in units of radians/second, with t in seconds, and the phase angle  to be in radians.

An alternative is to express the frequency in units of Hertz, abbreviated Hz, given by f1 = Freq/2pi

I think this 2pi is a radian measure. Convert to degree it should be 180 degrees?

In the Fourier series these frequecies are added up. The result is a list of constants that add up to a bigger constant. I wonder about appllying intregration to it.
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you are right.... it is just different unit for same measurement... feet vs meter vs yard ; pound vs kg ; gallon vs litres

radian is a unit used specifically for some application in engineerings..... as it is easier to use radian than degree in some part


Awakened_Angel
post Oct 5 2010, 11:18 PM

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QUOTE(befitozi @ Oct 5 2010, 11:56 PM)
Converting 2pi to degrees is 360 degrees, thus forming a complete circle or in this case,a complete period.

The frequencies are not added up,it is the complete sinusoid is added up. The expression where you see terms of cos are added up is as simple as it gets bar simplifying it into a summation term. Though it must be of harmonic signals only, as so Fourier series is defined as such.

Integration would bring this into the realm of Fourier Transform which converts signals from the time domain to the frequency domain. In terms of musical notes, it is not necessary since the notes are already defined in frequency.

I could go to great lengths on this directly related to music notes when i progress into my 3rd and 4th year of my engineering course. Looking at this field particularly. Developing a device where an input music file (mp3) would output a music score sounds interesting tongue.gif Though it is severely limited hahaha, for undergraduates at least biggrin.gif
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English** dude.. english**.... luckily I dwelled in the never land of engineerica... and manage to speak a phrase or two in ENGLISH*

** England`s mother tongue....

*ENGINEERING`s mother tongue... math

 

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