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 AMD Bulldozer & Bobcat

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billytong
post Aug 26 2010, 01:21 PM

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QUOTE(xenon_aniki @ Aug 26 2010, 10:00 AM)
im hoping it can head to head with i7 extreme. now thats call badass
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no use comparing with i7,

they should be comparing with Intel Sandy bridge, if they cant beat Sandy bridge, it is a FAIL product.
billytong
post Aug 26 2010, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 26 2010, 03:24 PM)
Not neccessary. If they can match 80% of Intel performance at 50% of the price, I'm sold.  tongue.gif
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Although I do not have high hope on this, they better be decent. Or else the another time of failure like this is gonna be hitting hard for AMD.

AMD have wake the giant up since AMD64 era, now it will be a lot harder to beat Intel. *I still remember AMD is charging RM4000+ on a piece of CPU while back then it has the best chance of grabbing the market but they got greedy charge ridiculous pricing and also got bottleneck by the Fab production, and couldnt really take on the market share. Less 30% market share with the superior AMD64 isnt really an achievement.

The launch date of the Bulldozer is way too late, I dont think I got the patient to wait. Mostly likely I will gonna be end up with Sandy bridge platform. sweat.gif

This post has been edited by billytong: Aug 26 2010, 05:17 PM
billytong
post May 16 2011, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(kingkingyyk @ May 7 2011, 02:59 PM)
I read some really impressive marks.
FX-8100 on stock is as fast as i7 2600K (OC-ed to 5GHz) in single threaded workload.
A beast is coming. tongue.gif
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I will not be impress if it is taking 8 core to reach this kind of speed. Unless it is a 4 core vs 4 core battle then it is a different story.

billytong
post May 22 2011, 09:13 AM

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QUOTE(kingkingyyk @ May 21 2011, 02:13 PM)
I take 1 module as 1.5 core instead. smile.gif
Larger than HT core.
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the question is if this "1.5 core" AMD claimed "8core" CPU is able to go head to head with Intel Sandy bridge quad core using 4 threaded application. (not 8 thread) then I am impressed. Otherwise it is rather pointless. biggrin.gif

besides I still prefer performance per core, we have been stucking @ ~3Ghz for a while and Performance per Ghz is only growing slowly. +10% from nehelem to Sandy bridge? Meh. doh.gif
billytong
post May 24 2011, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(dma0991 @ May 23 2011, 06:46 PM)
Although it is true that Intel is Chipzilla and they are very good in what they do but it won't help them if the market is trending towards the mobile and ARM is the dominant processor in that segment due to its low power consumption. When it comes to the mobile, less power consumption is more important than more performance. To put into perspective Intel has to put all kinds of special methods like the recent Tri Gate and 22nm or smaller just to compete with the plain 40nm ARM. If Intel doesn't improve Atom soon they will be left behind but since they have tons of cash that may not be true.

As for BD, AMD has their direction and I am sure they know what market they are targeting, I can elaborate but too lazy to typerolleyes.gif
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They(Intel) can either blame themselves or Microsoft for halting the development of OS & softwares. I mean how long we are stucking @ keyboard and mouse click interface? Since Win95, there isnt much change in Human computer interaction. Right now u are still typing words with your decade old technology keyboard under quad core CPU and the lazy factor are halting u to elaborate further. With Quad core and Hex core today we could have OS with AI assistant, using Microsoft kinect interact with computer.(they potting it to PC but they didnt really promote it for window usage). Software and hardware industry something useful the OS, u think consumer wont buy this kind of gadget? Look at what Nintendo Wii had done.

have u ever see Intel putting big resources in software development in order to secure the x86 performance demand? Not much.

This post has been edited by billytong: May 24 2011, 09:21 AM
billytong
post May 30 2011, 02:33 PM

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Damn the triple SLI setup for the sabertooh just makes it more sexier than the P67 ones. Why cant they come out 6 months earlier, I would have join AMD because of that.
billytong
post Jun 1 2011, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(kikikukiki @ Jun 1 2011, 06:30 PM)
so close yet so far... 60-90 days for BD wor... by then everybody will be thinking, "hmmm... maybe i should wait for ivy bridge"  yawn.gif
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The further Delay of BD only means the performance is going to be a disappointment. Phenom 1 is delayed, so are Nvidia Fermi 400 series. IMO it doesnt look good for AMD.

and Thread to thread performance wise, it is going to loose to Intel. Multi core is rather pointless especially software are not taking advantages of it. by the look of it having more lower performance cores doesnt seems to appeal me.

I'll like to have a 5Ghz dual core TDP 125w CPU, where is that? Doesnt exist. doh.gif

billytong
post Jun 2 2011, 10:02 AM

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QUOTE(dma0991 @ Jun 1 2011, 11:26 PM)
If you really want a powerful dual core that overclocks like mad then get the Core i3 2120K if it ever comes out.
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quite frankly if it isnt Intel do not come out the i3-2120k that priced at half of 2500K(@ Jan 2011) I would have get 2120k instead of 2500k. (Since I will be ending up using Ivy bridge, 2500K is pretty much my "temporary" CPU)

You mentioned about single core performance, but there is a huge difference between a single core and a dual core on everyday task(window environment) because you went from single to multitask, but the performance between dual and quads diminished smaller. and there are quite a number of softwares, (for me personally) only make use of dual cores and they have no plans of getting quad cores support because of the complexity involves in recoding/scheduling assignment for 4 cores. Thats the suck part unfortunately doh.gif

This post has been edited by billytong: Jun 2 2011, 10:04 AM
billytong
post Jun 2 2011, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(dma0991 @ Jun 2 2011, 01:43 PM)
You mentioned that your software doesn't take advantage of quad cores but I'm talking about multitasking which refers to running multiple different programs at the same time that would take advantage of a quad. Lets just say you're running 2 of the programs that you mentioned simultaneously. So if 1 of your programs can only make use of 2 then that means you can run 2 at the same time. As for the case of your Core i5 2500K, if 2 cores are occupied with the program that you run then you have 2 more cores to use for browsing or watch a movie while you wait for it to complete(if it takes hours).
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Still goes back to the same thing, I cant improve my dual core the performance. The are a whole lot of reason why Intel/AMD implement Turbo core. Apparently the implementation of turbo core on the newer Intel/AMD CPU architecture are better but it is not really significant enough to make up the difference. Take 2500K as example, 3.3GHz to 3.7Ghz isnt really revolutionary

The way the software make for muli-core is limited to how many cores it written for.

I cant take a 2 threaded application and get a huge performance increase on a 4 core CPU. It is not like GPU.

billytong
post Jun 2 2011, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(dma0991 @ Jun 2 2011, 02:24 PM)
You're not going to get a huge turbo just because Intel is selling a quad core as a dual core. You can overclock a Core i5 2500K as much as a Core i3 2120K because all SB processors have a max ceiling. No doubt the Core i3 2120K is marketed for the overclocker but it will still be sold with a lower TDP compared to a Core i5 2500K. The Core i5 2500K has the same TDP, as a Core i5 2500 despite the latter does not have an overclocking feature.

Since Turbo Boost is based on the processors TDP, you're not going to get huge boost (0.8-1GHz) than If you're really serious moving from your current Core i5 2500K to a Core i3 2120K then I would consider that a downgrade rather than an upgrade. Keep your Core i5, it will serve you well.  rolleyes.gif
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Didnt really say about downgrading, just that I am going after absolute dual core performance. Going Ivy bridge is probably my main reason behind this too. rolleyes.gif

billytong
post Jun 7 2011, 06:34 PM

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If u ask me I am not quite convince. if they got good stuff, they probably have show it by now.
billytong
post Jun 12 2011, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(dma0991 @ Jun 12 2011, 03:32 AM)
It is sort of a big issue with BD but throughout 2005 there has been a lot of changes in design. What we are looking at now is not what it was back in 2005.

BD is made not made exclusively for enthusiasts. It should focus more on virtualization, cloud, database, web and HPC where the softwares used are not restricted and are able to use the full potential of multicore processing.
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Anyway I am still very curious about their per core performance. Given how slow software developer are picking up, nobody will care about how fast a 8 core beating a 4 core 2600k, when software are still stucking @ 2 thread or 4 threaded.

Even the latest game are still 4 threaded. Those who bought low clocked <2.5Ghz Core 2 quad are pretty much screw up now.Because thse new games needed >2.5Ghz per core to perform better. I am going to see Phenom II X6 user will be suffering this as well in the future.

This post has been edited by billytong: Jun 12 2011, 03:16 PM
billytong
post Jun 12 2011, 10:06 PM

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QUOTE(dma0991 @ Jun 12 2011, 04:11 PM)
Even if you do not agree with AMD going with more cores, that doesn't stop the progress method that most semiconductor companies are going with. True the current SB is 4 core and most applications are still within 4 cores/threads but does that mean that the upcoming Haswell with 8 cores that would come after Ivy Bridge in 2013 is useless?

Since Intel is also going with more cores like AMD does that mean Intel is going to a path of failure as well? Of course there will be more and more programs developed to take the advantage of multi core but games are slow to catch on. Doesn't mean that you are very satisfied having 2 cores would mean that the majority of users will. For games I think that most PC gamers should be worried more about games being ported from console to PC rather than the other way around. Due to the fact that games are ported from console, having the most uber powerful CPU or GPU is not going to make your game have lifelike graphics and physics.

Despite Intel having a higher per core performance, for applications like VM having more cores is an advantage. You can cram more cores in a server tower means yo can run more virtual machines. When you are depending on thin clients to run your business, having a powerful core is not going to make a difference when most of the office work that involves word processing are not very CPU demanding. So in practice having 8 cores from AMD allows me to run 4 VM while only 2 VM with an Intel if I allocate 2 cores per system. That is already a 50% increase in the number of people that could use. Powerful single core performance has its place in the server market where more cores are not necessary but virtualization, cloud, database, web and HPC which is only a part of the server market can benefit from more cores.

AMD is aiming at the server space with BD because there is a lot of money to be made in the server space and also they want to regain their dropping market share in the server space. Consider that Intel can sell a Core i7 2600K with a die size of 216mm2 versus a Intel Xeon E7-8870 server CPU with a die space of 513mm2. That is 2.4x the die space but if you compare the price of Core i7 2600K which is $320 and Westmere-EX which is $4616, that is a 14.4x increase in profit when you consider the small 2.4x increase in die space.
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I agree with ur argument on server and professional applications. The thing is most desktop application are slow on adapting, by the time they are adapting it some of them would be bottleneck by per core performance. I am not saying AMD are wrong on 8 core CPU, but I just wanted to see BD core performance are as good as Sandy. There hasnt been much major speed bump since Core 2. Even the Turbo boost @ Phenom & Intel CPU isnt really significant at all. 3.3GHz to 3.7ghz @ 2500k, not really impressive bump after shutting off 3 of the 4 core.

just my 2 cents.

This post has been edited by billytong: Jun 12 2011, 10:20 PM
billytong
post Jun 14 2011, 11:00 AM

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regarding the 990FX

Arent most if not all bulldozer comes with ATI graphics? Why would AMD want to repeat Intel p67 mistake again? Shouldnt they just come out a chipset with vga support by default?
billytong
post Jun 14 2011, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(jonchai @ Jun 14 2011, 04:28 PM)
All along I'm talking about mobile. For desktop, maybe HTPC? But seriously, how many ppl build a rig just for HTPC? So AMD is probably trolling with Llano desktop until Bulldozer arrives
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Well a media player is already costing RM200-400. if HTPC is cheap enough to price near a media player. I'll definately opt for HTPC.

A decent Fusion base chip can be a perfect multi purpose HTPC.

billytong
post Jun 14 2011, 05:26 PM

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QUOTE(jonchai @ Jun 14 2011, 04:50 PM)
AMD sells the chips to OEMs first, and then OEMs do the pricing.

Basically, AMD's demand comes from OEMs and it's up to the OEMs to make it competitive. AMD has little to no say in this. Much like graphics. They can only suggest a Recommended Retail Price, not dictate them. Although the thought of putting an insane price tag on the notebooks is beyond me, my point sticks.

As for the value for money part, you're repeating what I said. The point of it being value for money is very subjective. Everyone has a different perspective on what's of good value. Hence I said value for money instead of price. I bought an XPS 15 for my bro recently and it was priced insanely at 3.7k yet I took it as good value. That's my view.


Added on June 14, 2011, 4:53 pm
I wouldn't want to build a white elephant (and bulky too) just to sit in my living room and allow me to watch (dl-ed) movies. However, I ain't gonna challenge your right to do so. To each his own  biggrin.gif
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Well HTPC can be very small for ITX base mobo. movies is just part of the function, I actually would love to surf internet and word processing on my LCD.

billytong
post Jun 18 2011, 02:05 PM

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QUOTE(Silverfire @ Jun 17 2011, 05:32 PM)
Whilst your drive affects game load time, it can be bottlenecked by either the drive or processor or graphic memory or physical memory.
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Neverwinter knights 1 is a pretty old game. Unless u are running P4 2.0GHz and below system there is no way the current destop would bottleneck the game.
billytong
post Jun 19 2011, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(AlamakLor @ Jun 19 2011, 02:45 AM)
Been doing some research on the product life cycle and upcoming chips. I'm incline to believe the AM3+ will not last. It's likely going to suffer the same fate as AM2. It would seem that AM3+ is a refreshed 790 to support the first gen BD. The real thing will come from FMx socket.

OTOH, Intel's z68/p67 isn't looking too good either. It'd seem that IB may need a new board despite using the same 1155 socket. Although this seems a little unlikely considering the confusion this would cause. If IB works on 1155 I'd say Intel is still a better bet until enhanced bulldozer is launched.
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It is more likely the BD get socket change than 1155. IB is suppose to be out by end of this year. Even the short live 1156 is at least 2 years old.
billytong
post Jun 19 2011, 09:09 PM

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Same here, it will not be worth upgrading from 2500k to IB if it is not at least 6 cores.
billytong
post Jun 20 2011, 02:50 PM

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they seems to havent find a trick to harvest the APU graphic power for graphic performance. I would definitely like them to implement some driver or software to make APU render the entire window 2D GUI in background and leave 100% discrete graphic resources to games.

This post has been edited by billytong: Jun 20 2011, 06:06 PM

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