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 AMD Bulldozer & Bobcat

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1024kbps
post Jul 26 2011, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(billytong @ Jul 25 2011, 11:52 PM)
Software developer gonna hate this rapid core increase pace hehe, just getting the multi-treading support alone is already tricky, now they have deal with 10 cores.
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Tricky? even Audio player like foobar2000 and iTunes are support multithreaded processing, eg audio transcoding,
Web browser like Chrome also support multithread, where got tricky?

Btw 10 cores stuff is not a new thing iirc, arent our beloved nvidia and AMD graphic card multicore by default?
but x86 CPU is quite complex is prolly why our cpu still have less cores than GPU.

This post has been edited by 1024kbps: Jul 26 2011, 07:16 PM
1024kbps
post Jul 27 2011, 07:14 PM

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QUOTE(billytong @ Jul 27 2011, 01:52 PM)
Perhaps I suggest u should take a read on the scheduling thing on x86 multi-core b4 u ask silly question like this. Multi core on x86 vs GPU is quite different. You can take a new generation GPU with thousands of cores/stream processor and run on an old game on all cores without a patch, but u wont get an old single threaded software use all ur new 6core/12thread CPU. 

The reason why CPU manufacturer going multicore is because they are hitting the wall on GHz race. Software company have to rewrite codes differently for every new "more cores" CPU comes out. While they do not like todo this, but it is inevitable.
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Whats the point of using old software on your new 6 cores CPU?
you can skip the wall of text from below if you are not interested to read sweat.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Old software are ought to be abandoned... if they dont support new cpu tech.

And again reply to the bolded part, If the software already support multicore, theres prolly no need to rewrite since it will detect how many cores are available and will utilize as many as it can.

Just my noob opinion sweat.gif
1024kbps
post Jul 27 2011, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(dma0991 @ Jul 27 2011, 10:57 PM)
The current programming model has poor multicore support and rewrite or recompile is necessary. That is why there are programming languages like OpenCL to simplify and make better use of multicore without diminishing returns.
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Not all programs right? i have no knowledge of programing, but not all program benefits from using CUDA/AMD APP and OpengCL,
For example, the x264 encoder, though i stopped follow thier development very long time ago, untill now their devs never added any new stuffed eg the OpenCL, even CUDA.
Only CPU via POSIX thread support.

If the code is really well written there is probably no need to rewrite the codes..
There have been so many attempt to add OpenCL and CUDA support to x264 by other guys but i think no one success...
related: http://sites.google.com/site/x264cuda/comm...-with-x264-devs
and the quote
QUOTE
[17:04] <Dark_Shikari> of course, it requires completely rewriting all code that you want to port
[17:04] <Dark_Shikari> and changing  all the algorithms completely
[17:04] <Dark_Shikari> because what is fast on CPU is not fast on GPU


Many GPU accelerated h264 encoder can BEAT x264, in term of speed, many time faster than it but quality is far from acceptable.

Sorry if this is OT sweat.gif
1024kbps
post Jul 28 2011, 01:08 AM

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QUOTE(everling @ Jul 28 2011, 12:53 AM)
If the quality is not on par, then they haven't beaten x264. It is possible to write a H.264 AVC encoder that can encode a 1080p movie in ten seconds, but all you see is a black screen. tongue.gif
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Lol, correction for my own post, there arent many GPGPU h264 encoder around i think, mostly using the same tech, eg CUDA.
Tmpgenc, Badaboom ect, are using CUDA and intel.
Never saw AMD APP support yet, but AMD do have thier own Avivo encoder, same crappy quality i think.


Added on July 28, 2011, 1:51 am
QUOTE(dma0991 @ Jul 28 2011, 12:18 AM)
It depends but more and more programs are getting on the bandwagon to utilize more cores as they possibly could despite the difficulty posed by making a program to be multithreaded. Definitely not all programs will benefit from OpenCL or could benefit from OpenCL but developers are getting there soon. OpenCL is quite a recent development and not as common as the C language but it is quite similar to C in terms of writing so I think it wouldn't be too much trouble for developers to learn it.

Llano and the whole Fusion concept will only become more popular if AMD manages to work with developers to push the development of GPU accelerated programs. They are trying and some software developers are making GPGPU accelerated software but if they fail then the Fusion platform is a flop.
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Sadly the OpenCL Havok disappeared. currently i still dont see any program that using OpenCL.
Obviously game is the only software that can fully utilize APU.

other than that, this will probably make use of the entire APU:
Decoding video from MFT decoder(Media foundation, similar to Dxva, already exist but no there arent any simple way to use this decoder) -> Video encoding (CPU, x264) + Avisynth fft3dgpu GPU accelerated denoiser(example), -> output.

Method above will fully utilize the APU but its not beefy enough to do this, if the video is 1080p in and 1080p out.
the GPU inside APU only have 80 shader processor, consider my 4890 can hardly perform fft3dgpu 1080p denoising at real time.
80sp GPU will not cut it.

Gonna need bulldozer + 6870 inside the APU to perform that smoothly sweat.gif

This post has been edited by 1024kbps: Jul 28 2011, 02:01 AM
1024kbps
post Aug 9 2011, 01:17 AM

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QUOTE(dwks @ Aug 8 2011, 05:24 PM)
just thinking, people keep saying most application cant fully utilize our current 4CORE CPU.
Is there any reason to even get 8CORE Bulldozer?

Hope someone fix this thinking of mine so that ill anticipating bulldozer release!
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Totally depend on what application you are using.
I can list them all if you want to know.

Most games dont use all your CPU resource and all cores.
If you frequently do video/image editing, video transcoding, these applications will fully utilize your cpu for sure.
For example Paint.net, those simple filters inside Paint.net like image resize and surface blur will use all the cpu cores.

Though commercial software Adobe CS and other are mostly accelerated by nvidia GPU.
Even the Image Blur filters inside the Paint.net are also GPU accelerated rclxms.gif both main program and the filters are FREE some more lol.
1024kbps
post Aug 10 2011, 12:46 AM

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QUOTE(n3w @ Aug 9 2011, 09:35 PM)
Basically we could have 4 cores running games and the other four running on clients.  brows.gif

I was just wondering the temp on 4 cores running clients. Anyone running all cores? Curious about the temp.

If say, 8 cores running wouldn't be the chip would be a bit hot?  hmm.gif
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Lol saturn is folding freak. tongue.gif
Temp would be depend on what cooler you are using and you are oc or not.
the 8 cores bulldozer is 32nm chip, smaller fabrication = can put more transistors, or more cores, lower power consumption and less heat than the phenom II 45nm manufacturing process.
1024kbps
post Aug 12 2011, 09:09 PM

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Just release the cpu already, else im gonna spend my money to buy a new GTX560ti, or may be razer mamba,
Or some other useless things sweat.gif
1024kbps
post Aug 14 2011, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(RegentCid @ Aug 14 2011, 12:28 AM)
This is my newest Rig...Llano set.

Location: Tokyo [Kodaira]
Room Temp: 27C  [Summer + Due to Power limitation....cannot used Aircorn]
My Llano idle temp avg 13C only.  Cool by Corsair Hydro 50

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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Colder than ambient temp?
Make sure you are using the TMPIN reading from mobo or Coretemp with +~10c offset.
My 1055t also colder than ambient temp lol doh.gif
27c +10c = 37 c thats my 1055t average load temp sweat.gif

This post has been edited by 1024kbps: Aug 14 2011, 01:24 AM
1024kbps
post Sep 1 2011, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(zerorating @ Aug 31 2011, 12:51 PM)
its 12core vs 6 core, sure bulldozer got advantage if the program can work on multiple core, really worried about Bulldozer IPC  sad.gif
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

3 bulldozer core takes 60-75% cpu usage for running dirt 3 (fps unknown),have lots of resources to use, but too bad that hardly to see games that utilized more than 3 core  hmm.gif
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Because all those graphical intensive task already handled by your beloved AMD/nvidia GPU, cpu probably is just like "passing" the commands to GPU and nothing else...
Unless the game is some poor console port, poorly written/optimized codes/program will use more CPU/GPU resources! im pretty sure you dont want that.

BUT if you insist to fully utilize your 8cores cpu for gaming right? rightttt? brows.gif
Read this: http://www.istartedsomething.com/20081126/...-albeit-slowly/
You might need dual socket mobo + dual cpu so it can run faster. sweat.gif
1024kbps
post Sep 7 2011, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(HoNeYdEwBoY @ Sep 6 2011, 10:38 PM)
why need 8 core to run dirt 3 hmm.gif kinda dont understand at all
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Smoother Framerates i assume? Looks like Dirt3 scale quite well.
Less core for gaming = Higher CPU usage = higher possibility of lagging or sudden drop in FPS, imho.
1024kbps
post Sep 7 2011, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(Searingmage @ Sep 7 2011, 11:12 PM)
Say whatttt??? Always delay.. Damn...
Luckily I stopped waiting on July, else I waited for no reason  shakehead.gif
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The delays only for desktop chip, server chip start shipping already
http://vr-zone.com/articles/update-amd-sta...iety/13510.html

QUOTE(HoNeYdEwBoY @ Sep 7 2011, 11:47 AM)
Mean more cores allow low CPU usage and power usage ? and this allow more smooth gaming experience.
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If you are comparing 2 cpu with same manufacturing process:
More cores = more transistors = eat more electricity = higher power consumption tongue.gif
Smooth gaming experience depending on many factors, some game dont use more than 2 cores(most calculation/tasks performed on GPU already), 8 cores BD would be useless for such games.
Most gamers choose intel because better performance per core sweat.gif
1024kbps
post Sep 13 2011, 12:21 PM

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QUOTE(RegentCid @ Sep 13 2011, 10:04 AM)
i think still no software can truly utilize 8 core yet....

Even AMD Phenom ll X4 975 also score 5046.......My ancient QX9650 also score higher than it.

Before we go into world of bulldozer...let have a view of Llano 65W TDP version.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Free Dirt 3 full version game.  nice one

Price is 8,000 Yen around RM220
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multithreaded app existed long time ago, its not a new thing anymore ... sweat.gif
A very good example that can utilize all cores : video encoder, especially x264, more core = faster.
I made a test long time ago but i lost the screencap already.

And the Dirt 3, i think its the first game can use all core, tried the benchmark yesterday, it does use all cores on my poorly overclocked(3.2Ghz) 1055t, average 50% each core.
1024kbps
post Sep 14 2011, 10:20 PM

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QUOTE(narong @ Sep 14 2011, 10:04 PM)
Without OC. will BD beat the SB?
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Just wait for review loh ...
No one knows how it perform against SB yet sweat.gif
BD seems support alot of new cpu instructions(AVX and some other intel SIMD), thats the only things i care + 5GHz on air rclxms.gif
1024kbps
post Sep 18 2011, 07:50 PM

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My 1055t @ 3.2GHz also faster than Bulldozer ?!?!?!?
user posted image
12 sec is default 4 threads (duno if turbo was activated or not)
9 sec is 6 threads
can go down to 7 sec if oc to 3.7 or 3.9ghz, forgot liao since long time dont play oc already sweat.gif
1024kbps
post Sep 19 2011, 12:57 AM

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^ ATI > AMD!

QUOTE(kingkingyyk @ Sep 18 2011, 08:51 PM)
Meh.
If the performance is so poor, why don't AMD just make Phenom II x8?
Or just make Phenom II x4 in 32nm, should be able to boost up a lot of clock speed without compromising TDP.
Cost effective on R&D.
user posted image
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AMD K10 architecture is very old, they need something new... to fight with intel sweat.gif
those new cpu instructions like AVX/FMA/XOP found on Bulldozer, for example x264(it support AVX and some other new SSE), you can see the encoding speed increase alot at same clock speed, is always better than OC your processor(or turbo) like a mad + spend alot of money on cooling stuff while the performance does not gain much.
And if the x264 was compiled with 64bit support, you will see another encoding speed increase at the same clock speed, again.
in short, more cpu instructions > higher clock speed.
1024kbps
post Oct 7 2011, 06:18 PM

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My 1055t also can Turbo-ed to 4.2GHz rclxms.gif but only 2 cores + toasty 1.55v sweat.gif
The only things i likes are 1866MHz ram support + new SIMDs.

Wanna see x264 benchmark, and may be some other mutithreaded video decoding benchies, any other things i dont really care >_>

1024kbps
post Oct 9 2011, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(everling @ Oct 9 2011, 03:15 PM)
The FX8150P uses that little power?! If you naively equalised the power consumption so that it is equal to the i7, using a factor of 71.785%, its performance really isn't so bad at all, surpassing the i7 in a few benchmarks and quite close in others.

I'd like to see benchmarkers to use x264 directly instead of Handbrake. Handbrake is pretty slow to update its copy of x264 and Handbrake 0.9.5 is from January.
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because x264 itself is a command-line program(there was 2 front-end for x264 but its gone long time ago), its quite hard to use if one not familiar with command prompt, or dunno how to write a batch file.

Those benchmarker should use MeGUI with newest revision instead...
They added the AVX optimization 4 months ago, http://git.videolan.org/?p=x264.git;a=comm...eabb9cfa237d97a
both SB and BD support AVX so the comparison should be interesting.
1024kbps
post Oct 11 2011, 06:39 PM

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user posted image
^ image fomr the overclocker net bd bench,

my x264 bench with my 1055t oc-ed to 3.6GHz.
user posted image

For some reason i tried to run the bench with GCC4.6.1 compiled x264, it was much slower than the techarp version sweat.gif
Techarp version is R1913 while mine own compile is R2085M (bigger numbers means newer revision) sweat.gif

This post has been edited by 1024kbps: Oct 11 2011, 06:40 PM
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post Oct 12 2011, 02:24 AM

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The first pass still slower than 3.6GHz 1055t though
the bd x264 first past 120~ fps looks like quad core cpu performance only sweat.gif
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=45934379
but second pass is very close.

Some other benchies on XS
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showth...Some-benchmarks
1024kbps
post Oct 12 2011, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE(CultTech @ Oct 12 2011, 11:23 PM)
Kinda confuse, does "Bulldozer" processor include graphic chips? like the SB does.
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No, but thier APU "Llano" have GPU inside if im correct.

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