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 The Solid State Storage Thread

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everling
post Aug 10 2010, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(rsangel @ Aug 10 2010, 10:48 AM)
i'm also wondering should i upgrade to SSD haha...
Is there really a diff if i only used my PC watch movie and some programmig ?
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Depends on the programming. Doing a keyword search across dozens or hundreds of files is a lot more quicker. And then there is everything else, like a lot faster boot up.

Works best with Win7. WinXP isn't optimised for SSDs.

Would be first time SSD owners probably might want to wait a few more months for Intel to release their 3rd generation SSDs. As there might be up to 50% price reduction for the same capacity.
everling
post Aug 21 2010, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(Crazy.SoT.Gila @ Aug 21 2010, 02:33 PM)
Thanks! Read some of it, seems complicated. Will continue reading.

I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit. I'm pretty sure I just did a Windows 7 install to partition it.

Ah. I didn't know there was such a substantial degradation from wear and tear. I always thought that it was just because of the files remaining, which TRIM fixes.

Unfortunately I'm using a laptop, so it can be quite a hassle to be having an external HDD there always. Guess I'll definitely be getting a 160GB next time biggrin.gif
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The lifespan of an SSD really isn't an issue for most home users. At 5,000 write cycles for an 80GB SSD, in a perfect use, it will accept 400,000 GB of writes or 219 GB of writes a day for 5 years. Even taking the write amplification factor, which TRIM partly mitigates, into consideration, you should still be able to write 100 GB a day (20 GB more than capacity) for five years before failure.

To lose your SSD to wear and tear, you would have to fill up your SSD every single day for five years! Wear and tear is not a real problem.
everling
post Aug 24 2010, 01:51 AM

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QUOTE(Casval_Hyakushiki @ Aug 23 2010, 02:10 PM)
I've been thinking about replacing the HDD boot drive on my PC with SSD.. But SSD's price is quite expensive, makes me have to think again.. Ouch.. sad.gif
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I'd buy the cheapest ringgt/GB SSD with a good controller. Kingston's SSDNow V Series 128 GB comes to mind. Intel's are also another good set of SSDs. The greater performance from SandForce's controllers isn't that great once you have any decent SSD and OCZ SSDs has a huge price premium.
everling
post Aug 24 2010, 05:35 PM

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You mean the Kingston SSD?

It's RM 899 at Cycom. Not as fast as Intel's or OCZ's, but will easily crush any HDD and it has a nice capacity for the price. I've been using mine for months already on WinXP for my laptop and am pretty pleased. thumbup.gif

I suppose it might still be a rather attractive product at this point in time, despite Intel's Gen 3 SSDs drawing closer. With Kingston's 128 GB capacity and cost, it won't be as big a regret when compared to buying an expensive 120GB OCZ Agility SSD (RM 1399).


Update: The Kingston is available at RM 860 at PC Zone.

This post has been edited by everling: Aug 24 2010, 06:04 PM
everling
post Aug 24 2010, 06:03 PM

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SSD Decoder Ring - an SSD comparison guide (Rev 3.0) to find out the model number to check which controllers the SSD is using. Intels are safe, Indilinx are safe, Sandforce has awesome benchmarks, avoid anything with the old JMicron 602s. Some older Kingston SSDs are using the terrible 602s.

Some of today's prices from the Hardware Zone prices lists:
CODE
                                        Price           Price/GB

Cycom

Intel X25-M G2 80 GB                    RM  815     RM 10.188/GB
Intel X25-M G2 160 GB                   RM 1780     RM 11.125/GB
Kingston SSDNow V Series G2 64 GB       RM  569     RM  8.890/GB
Kingston SSDNow V Series G2 128 GB      RM  899     RM  7.023/GB

C-Zone

Intel X25-V SSD 40 GB                   RM  409     RM 10.225/GB
Intel X25-M SSD 80 GB                   RM  799     RM  9.988/GB
Intel X25-M SSD 160 GB                  RM 1699     RM 10.619/GB
CORSAIR F60 SSD 60GB                    RM  699     RM 11.650/GB
CORSAIR F120 SSD 120GB                  RM 1199     RM  9.991/GB
CORSAIR F240 SSD 240GB                  RM 2499     RM 10.413/GB

PC Zone

Intel X25-V SSD 40 GB                   RM  405     RM 10.125/GB
Intel X25-M SSD 80 GB                   RM  800     RM 10.000/GB
Intel X25-M SSD 160 GB                  RM 1750     RM 10.938/GB
Kingston SSDNow V Series G2 64 GB       RM  505     RM  7.891/GB
Kingston SSDNow V Series G2 128 GB      RM  860     RM  6.719/GB
Kingston SSDNow V+ Series 64 GB         RM  620     RM  9.688/GB
Kingston SSDNow V+ Series 128 GB        RM 1010     RM  7.891/GB

Thundermatch

Intel X25-M G2 80 GB                    RM  815     RM 10.188/GB
OCZ Agility 60 GB                       RM  799     RM 13.316/GB
OCZ Vertex 60 GB                        RM  850     RM 14.166/GB
OCZ Agility 120 GB                      RM 1399     RM 11.658/GB
OCZ Vertex 120 GB                       RM 1499     RM 12.491/GB

* SSDNow V Series G2 uses JMicron 618


I did not make a comparison of every single SSD product.

- Kingston 128GB SSDNow V Series SNV425-S2 Gen 2 SSD Review
- Kingston SSDNow V Series G2 128 GB PC Perspective review.

For comparison, this post was updated from: *

This post has been edited by everling: Aug 24 2010, 06:16 PM
everling
post Aug 25 2010, 01:45 PM

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If its for games, there's less value in getting an SSD RAID setup. A single SSD alone will feel like better than RAIDed HDDs and games have a tendency to be CPU or GPU bottlenecked.
everling
post Aug 26 2010, 09:17 PM

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QUOTE(billytong @ Aug 26 2010, 05:20 PM)
Well 0.5 USD per Gigabtye or not.  It is unlikely I will buy SSD unless their minimum price is priced close to HDD price now. ~RM100-200

Which gonna take a while.
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If I have done my calculations right, starting next year, it will take about 3 years for the prices to hit about USD 0.50/GB. Assuming Moore's curves, of doubling the transistor count every 18 months, holds out for that long.

It may also take less than 6 years for the prices to hit about RM 0.50/GB.
everling
post Aug 27 2010, 08:35 PM

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QUOTE(dtdw @ Aug 26 2010, 11:54 PM)
Not sure where i've sourced it but prices are gonna fall to USD 1/gb by end of this year.

This is more than moores law. It's kinda like an explosion. Lightspeed may hit the market way slower, because when enterprise ssd becomes consumer grade = 500mb+ read/write.
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Based on our local prices for Intel's Gen 2, it's currently 3.23 USD/GB. For Intel's Gen 3 to fall to USD 1/GB by the end of this year, it needs to have a 70% price cut. That's big. Bigger than the 60% price cut over the Gen 1 when Gen 2 was introduced. shocking.gif

Not sure where you're going with "Lightspeed". Did you mean "Light Peak"?

QUOTE(dtdw @ Aug 26 2010, 11:54 PM)
Anyway to the person who says let it hit RM 100-200. I'd say when it hit 1gb/dollar, it is a good time to buy. Think of it as PC on steroid.

You've upgraded every single component on your pc, and want it faster. You're willing to spend thousands on cpu. Another thousand on Mobo+Ram combo. Hey, why not add another thousand and put those games and photoshop on steroid ?
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My CPU, MB and GPU cost me a total of RM 1K. Then I went on to spend RM 900 on an SSD, and I don't regret it. laugh.gif

QUOTE(dtdw @ Aug 26 2010, 11:54 PM)
No ssd yet. But i've had a solution.

Open your case and put your ears at the HDD. If you hear HDD groaning while your' loading a level or in the middle of something, it is seeking data.
If you hear it way lot more, than it's constantly seeking, which would mean, ssd win due to low seeking time.

Most rts games dont seek because when it's loaded the whole thing is thrown it.

RPG seeks. because throwing the whole thing in is insane, imposible. In such situation ssd helps by low seeking time + 275mb read access.
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There is a better solution. Download Process Explorer. It is the Windows Task Manager on steroids. It can detail to you, down to the byte, just how much was read and written.

Maybe I had read it wrong, but I remember that "Medieval 2: Total War" only read 40~MB from the hard disk when starting the game and loading a save. rclxub.gif
everling
post Sep 13 2010, 10:40 AM

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What SSD was that? And the read speed exceeds SATA 3.0 Gbps.
everling
post Sep 13 2010, 11:43 AM

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Oh, thaaaat "SATA 3". Okay, confusion cleared up.
everling
post Sep 14 2010, 04:02 PM

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The SSDNow used two JMicron controllers. The 608 are crap and the 618 are fine.

JMicron 618 controllers (okay):

SNV425-S2/64GB
SNV425-S2/128GB

JMicron 608 controllers (boycott) which should be phased out by now:

SNV125-S2/64GB
SNV125-S2B(N/D)/64GB
SNV125-S2/128GB
SNV125-S2B(N/D)/128GB
everling
post Sep 15 2010, 12:39 AM

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The so-called "SATA 3" is SATA 6.0 Gbps.

Do you have any specific reason to need the fastest read SSD? Because any decent SSD should be good enough.
everling
post Sep 15 2010, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(zsnipes @ Sep 15 2010, 12:48 AM)
I'm still doubt about the realibility of a SDD over HDD.
Anyway, the drive will sit in my casing, & won't move, so, no worry about dropping & spoil for HDD.
I give myself to use a single HDD/SDD maximum to 4 years, then I will replace it to newer drive. For OS & Data drive too.

Someone here say SSD is more reliable & some say opposite.
So, is there any reliable facts to read about ?
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I can't answer your question about which SSD to pick. But regarding reliability, other than the words of the manufacturers, I don't think SSDs have been around long enough for us to objectively say yea or nay regarding reliability. Personally, I think they're reliable.

QUOTE(billytong @ Sep 15 2010, 10:10 AM)
if you know how to protect your HDD they run for many many years. I have still have two 10years+ old  Quantum HDDs still running without bad sectors. One is a 4GB Quantum Bigfoot. it is a 5.25 inch HDD. U cant find these kind of form factor HDD these days. No bad sectors. This HDD is 12years old heading toward 13 years old.
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Considering the data density of the old drives, as long as the materials are good, I'm not surprised that they would outlive more modern hardware. As modern hardware tends to push the limits to the maximum.

QUOTE(selikatwo @ Sep 15 2010, 10:50 AM)
which is the cheaper ssd?
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If going by price per GB, definitely the Kingston SSDNow V Series G2 128 GB. You can refer to my earlier price analysis. Just be sure to double check and maybe check the Garage Sales, as I might have missed good bargains or it simply outdated.
everling
post Sep 17 2010, 02:15 AM

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Depends on what controller your SSD uses and what is your operating system. Both components need to support TRIM in order to minimise performance degradation.
everling
post Sep 18 2010, 03:02 PM

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I think there is a good possibility that you will have to wait another year before the price drops to your target range. The Intel G3 80GB is expected to to be about RM 400 by the end of this year.
everling
post Sep 18 2010, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(clawhammer @ Sep 18 2010, 07:55 PM)
RM400? smile.gif Seriously, I really have no idea why people always cannot be more realistic over the price. If we want to use the latest technology, prepare to pay a bit more. If budget does not permit, either we wait for this "new" technology to become old or go for conventional platter drives. Anyway, all the best in thinking that new SSD's would be as cheap as RM400 because by then, the Kingston would be RM200 a piece and I'd rather get 4 of those to RAID-0 than a piece of G3 80GB.
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Yeah. It's the reason I'm satisfied with my cheap 128 GB Kingston. I have an SSD and plenty of space to work with. As for Kingston getting a similar price drop, I am not expecting it to be any time close to Intel's release. There aren't many 25nm NAND manufacturers.

QUOTE
So, the Sandforce in Corsair F60 is slow ?

Possibly. You know how RAID-0 is fast? SSDs is like that internally. The more NAND chips you have, the more it can store and read the data in parallel.
everling
post Sep 21 2010, 07:27 PM

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QUOTE(dtdw @ Sep 21 2010, 10:40 AM)
it really depends on what you want. do you want space OR speed ? as far as raiding goes, its on a different level. Its like trying to OC your processor to 4ghz and testing stability for weeks and months.

in short, its like what claw said, waste alot of time. =P

i realise many people here kinda derive from a crossfire/sli background, and thinks raid is the same. even if it is the same, not all sli works like a charm, and at times i'd rather buy a single more powderful card.

one simple advice. get a sandforce controlled 120gb as main, and keep intelG2 as secondary, and ofcourse 1tb whatsoever as overall backup.  smile.gif
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Two SSDs? blink.gif

You are clearly too rich already and have too many huge applications and games that you need to run at the same time. nod.gif


everling
post Sep 22 2010, 11:20 AM

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At the moment, not possible. RAID is the problem because it will not pass TRIM commands from the OS to the SSD.
everling
post Sep 24 2010, 12:32 PM

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QUOTE(dtdw @ Sep 24 2010, 11:37 AM)
i would think so too. and with the recent price cut from a certain seller here. 120gb is at a sweet spot with lowest gb per RM. i think its RM 9 per.

but stil playing a waiting game as it is dropping quite fast.  tongue.gif

regarding sc2, without a doubt ssd would save the day.
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Kingston's price hasn't been beaten yet though. RM 6.71/GB for the 128GB for the V edition.
everling
post Sep 24 2010, 09:44 PM

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QUOTE(munak991 @ Sep 24 2010, 01:53 AM)
Ever considering durability vs performance?
a HDD can last > 5 years let say depreciation of the HDD is 20% slower
and a SSD constantly using can last around 5 years which totally to drain
Which 1 would u prefer if u are a company or a BT downloader?
I dont mind it slow down 5 sec( When you have time to play game 5 sec does it matters?)
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You will need to write over 100GB a day to an Intel 80GB SSD in order to wear it out in 5 years time. You will need to have a constant download rate 9.48 Mbps for 5 continuous years to achieve this.

Of course, at that rate, you will also need to flush out the data onto your other secondary storage devices. Do you happen to have such a real demand?

Also, Bittorrent is a terrible example. Because a typical chunk for the big files are usually 4MB, so SSDs will not outperform normal HDDs by a significant margin on this task. SSDs will also not outperform HDDs because your Bittorrent demand of 9.48 Mbps is equal to only 1.2 MB/s. Please keep in mind that the F3 can read at well over 100 MB/s.

Please throw this particular concern into the nearest trash can, pour petrol on it and throw a lighted match into the can. It is dead. Stop flogging the carcass.

QUOTE(Kiding @ Sep 24 2010, 05:09 PM)
OCZ Vertex 2 120GB selling at US$240 in Amazon drool.gif  drool.gif  drool.gif  or RM 6.3 per GB. can't resist it

I'm considered to buy it, anyone wanna join?
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Does that include shipping from the US to your home?
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