i think the super late gas build (only gas at 40 food) can only work in ZvZ. and it actually worked superbly well haha. finally found a good late game ZvZ build order.

basically 14 hatch 14 pool get 4 queens, 2 to block ramp, about 3 spine crawlers at your expo. when you get all these things set up, you are at about 40 food, throw down 4 gases and climb your tech to wtv you want. the only weakness of this build is baneling bust that str8 away bust through your block ramp queen. speedling attack wont work on queens with mana to tranfuse and you will have enuf lings/crawler in your base to fend off any roach rush.

spanishniwa's follow up is mass queens and ultralisk with nydus network to transport your main army.

one who dont micro their lings in early ZvZ games are not worthy opponents. its like the most important component of the matchup.

yes. ling baneling micro is a big knowledge to master in ZvZ.

use about 2 lings to target attack each baneling, then he must run his baneling away and use his zerglings to attack your lings because he dont want to sacrifice his precious early game banelings to 1-2 lings. 1 baneling need to kill about 8 zlings to justify its cost and build time...but if you count larvae as an resources then its another story. and the same thing applies to you. so, laggy comp = gg 1A in ZvZ baneling fest is not funny lol

hhmmmm.......i would say the easiest timing for zerg to destroy marine/tank is when they 1st move out. cuz once the ball starts singeing in the middle and crawl forward, its very cost ineffective to break it. so, put a lil ling infront of enemy to know when its coming and prepare for a big flank when tanks are unsieged. thats the most cost effective way to eat up the army and you will probably win from there. terrans will push out when they have sieged tech and about 6 tanks. if they are on 1 base, then they will push out when they have 3 tanks.

if you let them siege in front of you, then its really hard to win that unless you have a massive supply advantage of roach baneling ling infestor....or you have superior armor upgrade.


yeah, marine tank is abit too useful in TvZ and TvT...

as i said, catch them off guard when they are moving out unsieged. if they start sieging and edging forward, you are in big trouble.

best thing to do, get to 200/200 ASAP and wait for your next carapase upgrade to finish. then go for a massive attack. and reinforce with roaches speedling. but it will be super cost ineffective.

OR

if you have a flock of 20-30 muta, go behind and pick off reinforcements and stall outside of their production building to pick off new units.

OR

if you are in a terribad situation, worst case scenario you just nydus his main to force a base trade. but Z and T base trade? i rarely see Z wins...

is this true? nvr realized lol, proxy barracks to scout is more valuable than Ovie scout now? more health, only 50 mineral more expensive, faster?

in BW engineering bay can fly too

start wif ZvP

lol at race pick reason.

anyway zerg is an awesome race to use.

and nvr choose a race bcuz its OP or stronger. choose the one you feel comfortable with its mechanics the most.

QQtoss paling active

hmm.......normally what do you all do in Shattered Temple/Metalopolis/delta close spawn location ZvP. i 15 hatch 15 pool gas and after all the speed, drone, queen jazz.....its about time my opponent slowly pylon wall up his low ground into expo (3 gate sentry expo) i will have about 35-45 supply wif decent drone and some poking lings in front. but now protoss left me speechless and dno what to do next.

i can bet wif my nuts after expo it will be 6 gate all in wif sentry, maybe wif +1 timing attack also.

but i dno what to do next. some will say roaach all in but it doesnt work ALL THE TIME and if dmg is not enuf, their probe count will be sky high. decent control of FF can really defend for long enuf until 1 void ray is out.....i tried a few variation, doesnt assure more than 50% win rate :/

i read in playxp, they recommended burrow baneling.....if you noe its a 6/7 gate all in without robo, (maybe they will even use twilight blink later in the game), just burrow baneling, if can take out the sentry ball, its auto win wif ur sling surround and runby. but when i tried it, his push came earlier than my burrow T.T (i sneaked a 3rd b4 turning into lair but for me its standard expand timing, cuz toss turning 2 base)

nydus seemed possible but too cheesy? maybe win rate wont be high too....and he might just base trade...

I DNO WAT TO DO LA, CLOSE SPAWN 2 base gateway ALL IN SO IMBA

if its cross spawn, i can double expand at both left and right base like DRG/FD style, then stay at tier 1/1.5 wif mass army and larvae to drag till mid game 4 base v 2 base.

or

2 base muta into mass expand sling flood....cuz he cant punish my muta tech fast enuf.....

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jun 15 2011, 09:32 AM

speed roach is after lair.......6 gate hits way b4 that unless u didnt stop gas for drone saturation. its close spawn -.- and speed roach is not a good deal for me in early game, too many tech involved...losira's bo doesnt have that too


-evo

IM Losira.............his roach all in works btr in belsair beach, xel naga cavern, xel naga fortress these maps wif wide expos where you can find angle. but TBH, im having a hard time to pull it off on shakuras, shattered...the game i lost was on shattered close spawn i was pretty frustrated..felt that nothing i could do...

p/s IM Losira build order is 18 drone, 2 queens, 1 fast roach warren, speedling then 5 roach.....you will be infinitely behind/he can counter you super fast if you cant kill him wo wat i noe is when his expo is done, normally he will have 30+ probe adi and if i had decided to roach all in, i will have 18 only, and even if i can snipe his expo and forge, im still not in a sure win position. (lost a game in close spawn, killed his expo, he stay 1 base wif 30+ probe and power 5 gate all in me. caught me off guard when i was droning (i had only 18 b4 the all in, must drone back) and die str8 off....

and IM Losira sticks in hatchery till 3 base saturated only start lair right? if i rmb correctly...but he did that on....crevasse and xel naga cavern to alicia right?

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jun 15 2011, 03:45 PM

its a 3 gate sentry expand, but all toss will throw down a forge at his front expo.

lol, which toss is ball enuf to forge FE against zerg in close spawn XD

anyway off discussion abit, spanishiwa thought me something cute in zvp if toss forge FE, scout at 9-10 on big map, saw a forge laid down at expo for wall in (etc. shakuras or tal darim), make a hatchery cancel/evo at his expo location wif ur 15 hatch money lol.......this will force your opponent to make cannon b4 making nexus, hence putting u abit in front of your opponent XD if he ignores you, you had successfully made him waste a forward pylon and forge and denied the 'idrasayimba' forge FE....

lol, the cancel thingy obviously aint standard but something cool to play wif.

so everyone of you gave diff opinion, some say tech some say drone like mad...well, after playing zerg for 2-3 days only i realized i should engage btr and dun sack army i could have won some of the stupid games i played earlier

anyway for those who dont know, moonglade went to China server day b4 ytd. raped all the way up wif N win 0 lose. the whole china sc2 forum went crazy as you know they are quite patriotic and very the butthurt.

he went 0 loses till someone in top50 GM terran thor banshee all in won him cuz of lag n delay XD whole china damn butthurt cuz moonglade is rank 199 in KR GM and kena rape in code A.

he troll chat wif his opponents in chinese (kellymilkies help him translate) and the whole chinese community were watching/talking about it for 3 days adi.

to me all same but KR > everything...

but but, because china dont sell permanent account, only got prepaid, so alot of hackers, if kena ban den just buy new account (commitment not big)

but their top players are really good in RTS, top war3 RTS country.

its all about flanking...ur speedlings kinda let ur opponent cant run, then baneling hit it in.

yeah, took me quite some time to realized how effective it can be. especially against a protoss army.

ZvT its more about attacking when his tanks are unsieged and muta micro.


This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jun 17 2011, 12:59 PM

search result of moonglade in the forum http://bbs.plu.cn/search.php?searchid=337&...earchsubmit=yes
hope you can reach chinese

1 of the thread http://bbs.plu.cn/viewthread.php?tid=16089...light=moonglade

have fun, theres more, its really funny if you can understand their internet language

lol, glade actually asked the streamers, china players nvr gg? and the very very 1st player who typed gg, he was so shocked and surprised lol.....and it was posted in the forum too >.<

this is the biggest chinese sc2 forum, almost all GM players of china server has an account there.

what u need is STOP droning.

u dun need that much drone to have constant speedling production from 2 base. normally i will have 16 drones b4 starting any ling production. thats a good number to have constant injection of speedling plus some banelings. but since u say its a 8-9 minutes into the game, which is like fking late for a timing push, u can get up to 22~ dornes wif 2 queens for constant 2 base speedling wif healthy amount of banelings off 1-2 gas. banelings can only help you destroy the ball of marine which is the 1st push and maybe following. the best way to stop constant stream of marine is still roaches. roaches swallow marine in small numbers. just like stalkers (insert PvT QQ) or just mass speedling to surround the reinforcement. its good to have a small army cutting reinforcement if your opponent is just rallying their rax into ur base. cuz its a M move command, they wont hit you (thats even common in lower leagues, in higher leagues they will A move all their reinforcements or just move out bunch by bunch)

and really, 8-9 minute should be easy to stop as it is like 2 minutes into ur comfort zone, if u execute a good build order, u can even baneling bust him b4 he moves out.

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Jun 21 2011, 11:14 PM