Today, post patch 1.3 is the first time someone went storm OP on me <_____<

Anyone faced Spanishiwa's build before? I faced it just yesterday, tons of lings forced me to get lots of zealots and sentries early game. Transitioned to Colossi tech with HT support to feedback infestors when I was on 3 base, getting my fourth. Was going well, then a ton ultras popped and I got lololol'd over. ~_~

They don't do it here because the Warp Prism comes from the same place as the Immortal and the Colossi which are kinda the most important units in the Protoss arsenal right now... Your minerals are better dumped on Zealots and Cannons to defend your expos. In Brood War they did it because the Shuttle was used to transport Reavers around anyway. At least, this is from my understanding.

And also, immortals become more useless as the number of tanks increase. >10 tanks = shields gone in one volley = lol. Unless you have uber gosu immortal splitting or something, if the number of tanks rise up to that much, it's much better to use chargelots for damage absorber and your stalkers and colossi to melt things. Furthermore, unlike immortals that suck against anything non-armoured, colossi have AoE that melts marines plus can take tanks down from a further distance.

If you ever let mutas hit that high numbers then your only choice is high templars or get lucky with your blink stalkers. :\

If you scout it then voids will just kill him I'd bet. Zealots don't attack air and Archons are massive. Just make sure you have your own zealot army.

Sentries and DTs..? The guy must have not have had a good follow up o_O or he was waaaay too passive after the initial 3 stalkers

Yes, but I suggest actually adding in colossi in late game. If you haven't won the game early and you have a decent ball, add on a few robos and get like 6 or more colossi, it's a potential game ender. Then when you're maxed put down TONS of gateways, instant remax with stalkers/zealots is very powerful.

Doesn't take long late game. Two production cycles at most. You ARE producing out of like 3 or more robos late game. And who says you have to sit back and wait while getting your colossi count up?

Of course late game you gonna have more than 3 base right.

I mean I'm only in gold league but you guys make it sound like I'm just letting them expand all over the map and build up a 200/200 force again while I get colossi. With your gateway army you can maintain map presence while waiting for the colossi, hell, if you can end the game you won't even need them, like I said they are for very late game situations when your gateway army isn't very effective any more because of ghosts, since EMPs essentially make archons into units with less health than probes. Also, colossi don't even take long to make, ~50 sec (IIRC) with chrono boost. I dunno, maybe you guys are all in masters or something and Terrans up there can turn the tide of battle with a snap of their fingers so hey what the hell maybe what I do won't work in higher leagues, but we all learn through experience right?

Actually, ending the game early is great, I never questioned it, if you can do it you should. If you can't then you need a transition plan and the colo is the perfect way to do that, since you're racking one hell of a gateway army, they NEED the medivacs to survive your zealot archon force since stim is vital to stutter step micro it. If they switch to vikings they don't have as many medivacs and your colossi will help clear the ground army even faster. If they lose their ground army, destroy the medivacs, they are very essential to the terran bio force and if you destroy all of them, you'll cripple them severely since they now have to choose between vikings and medivacs. Also, tanks work against the terran IMO. Zealot charge up to marine face, marine die from their own tanks. Then you'll probably have zealots still surviving, your archons and stalkers will have an easy time cleaning up the tanks. Personally, I've never lost to marine tank based play from Terran.

Haha what, who was talking about 4 gate in PvZ? I think the only way to win early in PvZ is fake a 3 gate expand, attack with 5 gates mass zealots and sentries. And it isn't even all in, if you things don't go as well, you can always put up a force field wall and retreat. Either that or get lucky with DTs <<

It's not 2 base it's 1 base. You fake a 3 gate sentry expand, come out with your sentries clear lings and just attack straight and overwhelm the zerg with pure unit numbers. Kiwikaki does it quite a bit but yeah, fast roaches directly counter this build. But if they don't have roaches when your attack hits, GG, even spine crawlers won't save them.

Because you only make zealots and sentries, if you see a few roaches you can forcefield and slowly pick them off, and forcefield ramp also to prevent reinforcements. If you see too many you can just forcefield and retreat and expo since you never stop probe production and your sentries will make it easier to defend compared to a failed 4gate where you'll only have a few stalkers and zealots if you are unsuccessful.

Anyway this is from what I read on TL, I haven't really used this much but they say Kiwikaki plays it in such a way that if the attack fails he can cut losses and still expo.

This post has been edited by hahli9: Aug 1 2011, 06:19 PM

Fast expand is viable against Terran and Zerg but it heavily depends on the map, a big map like Tal'Darim Altar, you can take an expand easily.
I really don't know what timing first banshees appear but if you are teching then you should have an observer out before cloak banshees will be a problem.
Also, out of the ones you listed, 3 gate > tech is the better one I'd say. 4 gate is only really viable for pvp now because of increased warp gate research time.
And I don't know what league you're in but I generally try to get an expo around 6-8 in-game minutes.

For the T and Z match up, I've transitioned to an almost colossi free gameplay.
For T, I go gateways and upgrades heavy, often I found myself at an upgrade advantage compared to the Terran. What you'll want in this composition in accordance to quantity of units are Zealots, Archons, Stalkers, High Templars.
I'm actually pretty weak at PvZ so yeah... But at the lower leagues I think a Zealot-Archon ball will be able to win quite easily because most players at lower leagues are afraid to use casters, just make sure you don't run all your zealots into banelings.
PvP what it boils down to is 4gate at the start. Most of the times the game ends with that. Other than that it's colossi war. Though recently, many have shown that Zealot-Archon mixture destroys the normal mix of gateway units and colossi if there aren't many colossi on the field.

But after all this, there are many, many ways that the terran and zerg can play too and you'll need to adjust your build according to what they do. There are many openers for PvX but I'm just listing the ones I use the most, it's really important that you find your own play style.

Just my 2 cents, if you really wanna learn more go check out TeamLiquid.

This post has been edited by hahli9: Aug 5 2011, 02:08 AM

Really depends on the terrain lol. If it's an open area, you a move like that = fungal on whole army and instant speedling surround

Storm, archon, blink stalker.