Here's s little more from Carra's autobiography.

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Added on July 14, 2010, 3:49 pmI share his sentiments on England, which is why it didn't bother me that they got sent packing.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jul 14 2010, 03:49 PM

Hmm if Joe Cole does sign, it's to replace Benayoun no doubt. Both are right footed players able to play on either flank. I'm a little perplexed if indeed the decision was to swap Benayoun for Cole.

Firstly, I think it's obvious that Benayoun was the better player last season, what with Cole being out with injury. Not only that, if you ask me, Benyaoun was amongst our best players last season. He started off being used as an impact sub but soon established himself as a regular fixture after some impressive displays. In my opinion, he was one of only 3 match winners we had last season, along with Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard.

Financially speaking, Benayoun was being paid under $50,000 pounds compared to the $90,000 that Joe Cole is reported to be offered. We got what? $5.5 million pounds from the sale of Benayoun? So assuming we sign Cole and we look at the financial component from a 2D perspective, Benayoun's sale will finance the difference between his and Cole's wages of $40,000 for the next 3 seasons. Mmm not much gained or lost if you ask me. By the end of their contracts, neither would be worth much anyway.

In terms of consistency, Benayoun averaged about 30 games a season for us while Cole had averaged about 25 games a season for Chelsea. Benayoun averaged a goal every 5 games while Cole averaged a goal every 9 or so. Statistically speaking alone, Benayoun holds a slight edge.

In summary, I just don't see why we sold Benayoun in the first place.

The impending sale of Insua wouldn't surprise me if we already had a permanent leftback which we don't. Now I'm one of those that don't rate him that highly simply because he lacks one attribute that I don't think anyone can improve on, pace. He can improve in his positioning, tackling and almost any other ability but in the Premiership, you need pace to be a fullback especially when you are expected to run up and down to support the flank going forward and back. He did his best as a stand-in but his lack of pace was always going the be exploited. $5 million? Hmm... not a whole lot but then again, like I said, I don't think he's worth much more than that although he is still young.

What determines if this is a wise sale? Who are we bringing in? Looks like we're now linked with Paul Konchesky for $2 million pounds, which is a decent price for a bloke with a couple of caps on his cap. That being said, he isn't anything more than an average player so it looks like RH is having to trading like for like quality players to round up whatever transfer funds he can.

Needless to say, our immediate future is definitely not a bright one.

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Added on July 19, 2010, 4:03 pmWell 2 years isn't a whole lot. What we need right now is stability and not 'one for the future' type players. If you ask me Joe Cole coming in for Benayoun isn't a forward move. Rather, we're still where we're at provided Cole can stay healthy.

Well even Titus Bramble scored against us. Cole may have scored a few goals against us which doesn't mean much if he's going to be playing for us. Anyway, his goalscoring average isn't as healthy as Benayouns. The question isn't about whether or not getting Cole is a good thing. It's whether or not we're actually moving forward considering he's replacing Benayoun?

Could be. He wasn't very happy under Rafa, that much is true but he also did cite that if it were up to him, he'd like to retire at Liverpool. Don't think we'll know the full story so no point in speculating.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jul 19 2010, 04:03 PM

My concerns aren't centered around who we have to sell, but rather who we will bring in? As it stands, it looks like we will have Joe Cole come in for Benayoun. Mmm... not much difference there. Next, Koncheskly looks like RH's pick to replace Insua. Again, no real difference with the exception of age. Oh that and we'll have two more English players in the lineup.

If we do sell, by choice or otherwise, the likes of Mascherano, Agger, Babel, Gerrard or Torres, will their replacements be any better? We aren't exactly renowned for unearthing young previously unheard of blokes like Fabregas, Reyes, Flamini or Pique or we? The last real bargain we got was for Sami Hyypia and he's almost retired now.

Yes but Hyypia was signed early in his career while Konchesky is approaching the end of his. I personally think that his best days are behind him. He is to me a utility player and nothing more. Was decent a few years ago. Will still provide good support down the left flank but he isn't going to become a better play than he already is.

Joe Cole? I've not seen him play good football for some time now. Maybe Anfield will be the place he revives his career. I'm just hoping he can remain fit and his cruciate ligament is behind him for good. I cannot however agree with posts that he is our 'saviour'.

Hmm I can't verify if I'm right, but aren't we the only ones willing to offer to pay him $90,000 pounds a week? If he was willing to forgoe Champions League football, it could be for anyone of 3 reasons :-

1) Regular football
2) He is a die hard Liverpool fan
3) Money

I'm inclined to think it's no. 3) and a bit of no. 1) I guess.

Fair comment, it's the bottom line that counts but personally, I won't compromise on my ideals. Call me ancient but I still believe in the term, "Liverpool type" player, and mercenaries who value the dollar, or pound in this instance, above all else, don't fit the profile. A certain Mr. Kewell comes to mind. Well then again he hasn't exactly made his statement so he deserved to be given the benefit of the doubt but I don't think his decision to come was purely down to playing time. I'm sure he would have just as much with Spurs.

I believe he does but he could have definitely got the same at Spurs. In fact, he would probably have more opportunities there.

As it stands, I think there is still more room for pessimism than there is optimism, especially since Torres has been mum about his future. I'm hoping that Gerrard's pledge to stay will be enough to assure Torres that the club isn't on a slippery slope. So far we've have more players leaving than we have players coming in which is natural given that we constantly have to raise funds first. Let's be realistic though. I seriously doubt we'll be mounting a title challenge in the coming season or even the season after, not until the club has achieved some stability. The current owners will not invest any money into the club and all Hodgson can do is keep us where we are so our value won't plummet before we find new ownership. Why am I thinking of the season ahead when everyone else is talking about transfer news? Because I still cringe at the thought of the mancs winning no.19 before we do.

After reading Carragher's autobiography, one thing struck me. With us at the mancs, it's like of like Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher. They both only went head to head briefly at the latter was still a relative infant in the sport. They never met at the peak of their careers. The same can be said of us and the mancs. We were dominant up until 1990 and the mancs after. Our decline coincided with the resignation of Kenny Dalglish and like Carra says, I'm positive the past 2 decades would be very different had he stayed on. Will the mancs era of dominance only end after the resignation of Alex Ferguson? I'd hate to think so because he's stayed on despite hinting at retirement 5 seasons ago. I don't think he'll be done until he's surpassed our record of 18 titles, and 5 European Cups, and they look odds on to achieve that feat although it's going to be more challenging with the likes of Man City also having been blessed with a pot of gold.

I've not verified the source of your article so I'll take it with a pinch of sort. Houllier has no beef with Rafa so it's highly likely that even if he did say those things, it's been somewhat taken out of context.

Assuming it's true however, no one is disputing that our 2005 Champions League winning team comprised of players mainly signed by Houllier. It doesn't however mean that he would have triumphed in Istanbul. In fact, it may be counterproductive because he never scaled the same heights Rafa has in Europe even with a squad signed completely by himself. Houllier did however have a pretty good relationship with players like Gerrard and Carragher and I think he was genuinely happy for the lads when they won the cup. In his autobiography, Carra did state that Houllier walked into the dressing room after the game to congratulate the team and 'some' of the players did say that it was his team, essentially. I don't believe the press but I do believe Carragher.

I'd love to see Sami back as player-coach (http://www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/liverpool-boss-makes-shock-move-for-former-kop-her)

He may not have much left in his legs but he epitomises what the term, "Liverpool type player" means. His contribution to younger defenders will be immense and his enthusiasm and passion for the club will be infectious.

Carra having another 3-5 seasons at the top? I doubt it. From what I've read he is already feeling the strain of playing so many games. Age is catching up with him and he's already contemplating life after playing as we speak. From what I can tell, he's got 2 seasons left, tops.

Huntelaar for Babel? Exciting news indeed. He doesn't have to be prolific but his signing will encourage Torres to stay I reckon. His presence will take a lot of heat of the Spaniard.

I admire the confidence. Top 4 a certainty? I'm not so sure. Even though we've signed Cole and are looking at adding a few more quality players like Huntelaar to the side, you have to consider that our opposition is also bolstering their squads. We are some ways behind the likes of Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal in terms of consistency, mainly because we're going to be playing a different style of football yet again. They don't need as many reinforcements as we do because whoever comes in, merely has to adapt to their respective systems to look twice the players they actually are. Spurs and Man City in particular are also preparing for another assault on the Premiership and let's not forget we finished a miserable 7th having won only 5 away games the whole of last season. Roy Hodgson only won 1 with Fulham in the same season. Our away form was a problem and if past results are anything to go by, Hodgson doesn't seem to be the answer. Realistically, I'm aiming for a top 6 finish. The teams that were previously some distance away from us are catching up with us faster than we are catching up with the top 3, if they haven't already caught up that is.

Mmm the more I read, the more it resembles a transfer market on Fantasy Football. The mood is without emotion.

I've always subscribe to the belief that no player is bigger than the club but at the same time, I have come to feel as though Torres was going to be a part of the club for a long time to come. After watching the video hosted by Michael Robinson, I was sure that Fernando Torres would go down as a legend in Liverpool folklore. After all he inherited Dalglish's chant, before the Torres bounce was developed. The sight of him shaking hands with greats like King Kenny, Souness and Sammy Lee in some ways convinced me that he would be a permanent fixture at the club for years to come but alas, it would appear that it was pure fantasy.

The Torres song is the best one for any player in a long time. It has to be the most sung in recent times and it's contagious. Pity some never took the initiative to learn it's lyrics. Come on guys, it has to be near and dear to your heart, no? Back to the point. This is a player that to me was destined for greatness snd it devastates me to think that he may be leaving. In the short time that he has been wearing the red of Liverpool, he has demonstrated the tenacity, heart, professionalism and work ethic becoming of a Liverpool player. He has above all, shown not only respect, but a deep appreciation for the fans.

Sure we can buy quality players from the funds we'll raise from his sale, but we are not guaranteed a player with the same attitude.




This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jul 26 2010, 02:50 PM

Interested to hear why you think he'll stay for sure.

I'm sure he does appreciate the fans but his heart is still first and foremost with Atletico, not Liverpool.

He's said to be disillusioned because he was told that the club was sure to find new investors which we haven't. He has admitted that we are still a few signings away from being title contenders and although the acquisition of Joe Cole is a welcomed one, he's a replacement rather than an addition. Same goes for anyone else we're going to sign it appears since we have to recoup money before we can spend it. Couple this with the fact that we've just finished 7th and aren't in the Champions League altogether and the future doesn't exactly look as bright as the one he was promised. The fact that Torres left despite his heart being at Atletico says it all. He is an ambitious young man who wants to win things bad enough that he left the club he loves. If we can't give him the assurance that we'll be competing for trophies, he's bound to go for sure and I for one, do not blame him the slightest bit.

I'm sure that as fans, we'll all do our part in convincing him to stay. Assuming he thinks with his head and not his heart however, he may still decide to leave albeit with a heavy heart. Do you remember the number of "Alonso, please don't leave us" signs on display during our tour to Singapore? Fans all over the world were literally pleading with Xabi not to leave but we cannot be selfish and pretend to understand how politics within the club affect a player. I'm sure that like Torres, Xabi loved the fans but ultimately, he had to look into the best interest of his career and I understand why he decided to leave in the end.



Well that's the thing about football today isn't it? That there is too much money involved and as a person, it's hard to ignore the wads of cash that's being waved in your face, and put your loyalties at the forefront. You'd be hard pressed these days to find a Steve Bull type player. For those that don't know him. He was in England's 1990 World Cup squad whilst plying his trade with Wolves in the old English 2nd Division. Needless to say, his value soared after the World Cup but he stayed true to Wolves despite interests from top sides like Newcastle and Coventry. These days, the almighty dollar rules.



If I were to use my job as an analogy, I'd be equally frustrated knowing the management isn't looking to invest into the business even though it's going downhill. Things can only get worse. Bonuses will be miniscule and let's not even get into increments. As much as I love my company, I'd leave if there was little sign of progress.

Ah here's where we differ. Whilst you are the eternal optimist, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I just don't see any logical reason to suggest we'll challenge for honours this season. Our away form last season was abysmal but Fulham's was worse. Not indication Roy Hodgson knows how to win away from home.

Well for one Torres has age on his side which is a major factor as most clubs can't just go out and buy any player at any price. The vast majority of clubs still need to check their balance sheets and ensure that if they are going to fork out a lot of cash, they'd want a return on their investment and if a player is into his 30's, there isn't too much time for ROI. This is why your value drops as you age even if you're still at the top of your game. The only time this will change is when every club has a billonaire owner looking for a hobby who is willing to spend whatever it takes to win a trophy.



Just because a player was going through an injury spell for one year, he's injury prone? I won't start a "who's better" argument here because it's subjective but I don't think it's fair to lable Torres as an injury prone striker just yet. He often leads our line alone and he gets battered almost every game. The human body no matter how fit, can only take so much. Look at Drogba each time he gets hit, but then, he does appear to have a lower pain threshold than most players I've seen.

In my books, Drogba definitely has the talent, but I don't like his ethics. Heck his play acting was so bad, he even got boo-ed once at Stamford Bridge by the home fans no less. When I've seen him at his best, it was when he was robust and used his strength to great effect, not writhing in pain each time he got touched. This is the frustrating thing about him. Can't help but wonder if he'd score more goals if he rode challenges instead of trying to draw fouls from them. I'm not saying Torres doesn't go down easy, but he isn't as big nor is he as strong as Drogba obviously is.

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Added on July 27, 2010, 2:16 pmI rather he leaves because I'd hate to have to see him score against us.

I don't care about the BPL as much as I care about Liverpool. I don't think the BPL has a problem given the number of wealthy owners it has been attracting. Where there's money, there will be quality players.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Jul 27 2010, 02:16 PM

Mascherano's departure from Anfield will definitely leave a gaping hole in the middle of the park. He was out injured for a the start of last season and his absence put the defence under constant pressure. His boundless energy and enthusiasm will be sorely missed. Not often you come across players who play with so much heart. If you ask me, a replacement for him should be a priority over any other position now. Aurelio played in that position against Fiorentina when he was out and failed miserable. Lucas doesn't fit the bill either as he's more comfortable going forward as is Aquilani. Hmm would be interesting to see how far Jay Spearing has developed. If the game against Kaiserslautern was anything to go by, me thinks he may just make the grade.

We've sunk to new depths if Luke Young is being considered to solve our leftback woes. We're paper thin in that department and this was evident when Stephen Darby had to start there against Kaiserslautern. It shows that we don't have any decent youngsters capable of filling the void. Luke Young has never been more than an average player even during his peak at Charlton. That and also his natural position is rightback!

Is it so hard to do a google search before coming to such conclusions? Man Utd fans did everything? Really? I didn't hear anyone complain when they won the Premiership the season before. All we do is complain? Piss off. Some of us took the effort to start our own supporters club. Some of us put money in to print t-shirts and order F&B during viewing events. If anything, I think Livepool fans in Malaysia put a fair amount of effort into supporting the club. If you had bothered to do some research, you'll note that fans from countries other then England have started their own movements in an attempt to usurp the current owners.

What have you done anyway?

Your naivity is astounding. Firstly, the fans banded together to form the SOS. Have you even bothered to look at their goals? The most important one being supporter representation at boardroom level? You can scream your lungs out on the streets as much as you want but if you ask me, the smarter thing would be to lobby for a voice where decisions are made. If this goes through, the next time Liverpool plan to sell, the fans will have an official word.