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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club- The Kop Talks 2010, Jones arrived, Diego leaving.OFFICIAL.

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Duke Red
post Aug 10 2010, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(Burningsunz @ Aug 10 2010, 10:14 PM)
+1 i agree with u. a fans doesnt mean they have to know about the club history but of course it will be a plus if they do. as long as they supported the club through thick and thin will do. i dont support liverpool just because of how good they are in the era of shankly..i support liverpool because when i watch them play when i was still young and the feeling is different compare to other teams
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I'm pretty certain that every single poster on foreign LFC forums like liverpoolfc.tv and RAWK would disagree with you but I don't suppose the opinions of those who actually live in Liverpool matter. I guess the concept of being a fan of Liverpool fans doesn't hit a cord. These same fans who have put so much effort into educating fans around the world on the "Liverpool way". Don't suppose you've heard of the RTK or "Reclaim The Kop Campaign" then? http://www.thisisanfield.com/clubinfo/anfield/rtk/

To be perfectly honest, it does bother me that there are Liverpool fans out there who know less about our club than some of my Man Utd supporting mates. I mean if the can bother reading about our club, I can't for the life of me figure out why an ardent Liverpool supporter himself can't. It does bother me that some have never heard about the wonderful stories that make the club special. To never understand why Shankly is so revered that there is a statue of him at Anfield and to not know why "he made the people happy". To not know that after his retirement, Shankly once returned to stand at the Kop with the fans because as he said, it was where he belonged. What really bothers me however is when a Liverpool fan can say that history isn't important. This is a slap in the face of every family of the 96 victims of Hillsborough who want older fans to remember and newer fans to know about their fight for justice that has gone on until today. You may not know them personally or you may never even have been born yet but you have to respect your fellow fan, or all this togetherness or unity you talk about when it comes to Liverpool fans, are nothing but empty ideals. Each year there is a memorial held for Hillsborough. Rafa himself had said prior to his retirement that the club will never forget the victims, so forgive me for being a little harsh when I come across a fan who doesn't at least think it's important to know a little about the tragedy after they've been exposed to it. Each year we remember Shankly and thank him once again for all he's done for the club. Why would Liverpool fans around the world do all this if it wasn't important?

Just like those who started the RTK, Liverpool fans around the world will continue to do all they can to educate newer ones. I'm still learning until today which is why I read up whenever I can and purchase autobiographies of former legends to get more insight. Just as there are some who don't feel they need to know, there are a lot more who feel they do and they will. All I ask is that you don't ever say that it isn't important to know about incidents like Hillsborough it means a whole lot to those who lost friends and family that day. Never say that knowing the lyrics to YNWA because the following column proves that to some, it means a whole lot. You probably aren't going to read it but what the heck.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


If anything, maybe we're guilty of adopting a 'hollier than thou' approach and I don't speak on behalf of every but trust me when I say, I honestly want to share all this because these are the reasons I am a fan. I didn't know anything when I first started since the internet didn't exist but I learned as I went along and only lately has my education increased in pace because of the information that is so readily available online.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Aug 10 2010, 11:14 PM
Duke Red
post Aug 11 2010, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(wolvie2k @ Aug 10 2010, 11:54 PM)
If you want Liverpool to be a successful world club. Then you have to learn to accept all kinds of fans including casual and hardcore alike.


Actually I have to agree with you on this. For the club to do well, they need fans of all sorts to watch the games or broadcasters would not want to pick them up and in turn, sponsors would not want to dump cash in to have their ads played and so on. If no one purchased merchandise, only the club would suffer. For more traditional fans like myself who love the club for more sentimental reasons, it's a tough situation to be in and I can empathise with the locals. On one hand they want to protect the 'sanctity' of the club, but on the other, they know that for the club to compete in today's game, we need to commercialise ourselves and market ourselves to as many people as possible. Same may even go to the extent to say that we have to sell our souls. Why? Because it's definition is, "To do anything, even sometimes bad and dishonest, in return for money, power, respect, success, etc". Sounds ruthless but then again football is now a business as much as it is a sport.

Suffice to say, fans all contribute in their own way in this new environment. We need fans to fill the stands. We need fans to sing and chant to raise team morale. We need fans to continue to purchase merchandise for the club's profitability. Lastly, we also need fans to continue to educate to those who are willing to listen so that the traditions and values of the club will continue to live on for generations to come. It will take a collaborative effort from us all but there isn't a need for you to yourselves under any one category of fan. You have a choice to be all of the above.

QUOTE(wolvie2k @ Aug 10 2010, 11:54 PM)
The reason I say this is because I know many of my friends who are not computer literate. There are a lot of casual fans all around the world. Yes it's true that they don't know who Bill Shanky is or know about the Hillsborough Disaster. One thing is for sure though, whenever Liverpool is playing, they'd still show up to watch the game.

Nobody is saying you shouldn't learn about history if you want to. But do I need to learn about history to enjoy something? I think you can learn history and/or it's present to enjoy something.


Fairplay. This argument has as far as I can tell, reached a stalemate. No one posters here I believe knows everything about the club but out of respect for our fallen comrades and their families, I still maintain that it's important to know about Hillsborough at least. I'm not saying that you need to know it to become a better supporter. I'm saying you need to know about it for basic reason of humanity. Lives were lost, injustice was done, and fellow Reds are still fighting for the truth to be known. It's the same if it were an earthquake in Indonesia or a flooding in New Orleans. The common human response would be to show compassion.

Duke Red
post Aug 12 2010, 10:10 AM

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I'm expecting Cole to play in the hole behind Torres with Gerrard dropping further back, especially if we lose Mascherano. Then again with suggestions that Poulsen and Crouch and joining us, who knows?
Duke Red
post Aug 12 2010, 11:33 AM

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Indeed Hodgson has proven that he is capable of building a side with a relatively small budget but he does need to work on improving last season's poor away form. We won only 5 games away from home while Hodgson only won 1 with Fulham. We've already lost a couple of friendlies away this season. I'm eager to see the new season get underway but I can't say I'm optimistic of our chances. 6th is indeed a realistic target if you ask me. Out of the players we've signed so far, only Cole is likely to make a big impact if you ask me. Even then, one player doesn't make a team. Like I said though, Hodgon's main task right now should be to stable the ship and ensure we don't get any worse which is a high possibility when our rivals are bolstering their squads, with the exception of Villa.

Just being realistic here.
Duke Red
post Aug 12 2010, 05:49 PM

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The last time I saw Poulsen play, he played as an attacking player which gives you an idea of how long ago that was. Anyone can tell me if he's any good and why?
Duke Red
post Aug 13 2010, 11:34 AM

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Since no one provided an answer to my question, can I safely concluded that no one has actually seen Poulsen play? Ah perhaps someone from the Juve thread can enlighten us so we know if we should get excited or not.

I like Masch but not as much for his ability as a footballer than for his commitment and passion. He is the type of player that inspires you to play harder and I can see why Maradona gave him Argentina's armband. You don't have to be the most talented player in the team to inspire your squad and this is one of the hallmarks of a great leader, that your mere presence gives your teammates a sense of assurance that everything's going to be alright. As a fan, his name is one of the first I look our for when the starting lineups are shown on the screen. As a player, you know that if you get caught out of position, you'll see Masch run the full width (or even length!) of the pitch because as they say, "he's got your back". He possesses the tenacity that many players don't these days. He reminds me a lot of Edgar Davids actually, minus the goggles. I still find it a little insulting that he has been accused by rival fans of being dirty. I disagree. He is enthusiastic, sometimes a little over-enthusiastic but he doesn't set out to injure players. He has injured himself on countless occasions by going into 50-50 challenges at full speed so you cannot say he is dirty because if he were, he wouldn't take the risk of getting himself hurt.

As I type this, images of him dashing from the corner of the TV screen, into the main frame where the ball often is, come to mind. I will miss seeing him scampering across the field, protecting the back four like it was his castle being seiged by invaders. It looks a certainty that he'll leave so I will bid him a premature farewell. May you piss off many more opponents to come with your burning desire to make their lives a living hell on the pitch, and may you one day return to Anfield as a friend of the club, even if you are flying an enemies flag. YNWA.
Duke Red
post Aug 13 2010, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(SnoWFisH @ Aug 13 2010, 02:36 PM)
Ok guys, being a Juve fan as well as as a Pool fan (Juve still my primary club though, no offence  tongue.gif ). Here's my opinion about Poulsen.

He's a hardworking, no nonsense type of DM. If there's scraps need to be cleaned up, he'll clean it up without complaining. If you need him to be a full back/center back, he'll fill up that position without making much noise. He is pretty defensively versatile. Sometimes he could get into fights/incidents due to his aggressiveness  sweat.gif .

He does his job well, but not flashy. Don't expect him to make dazzling dribbles or score goals or those defence splitting Pirlo-like passes.

However, between him and Masch, I'll still pick Masch.
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Thanks for the information. In short, he's a poor man's Mascherano.

On the topic of Hleb, I wouldn't call a person a success of failure based on statistics alone. I thought he was decent whenever he played for Arsenal. Good skill on the ball and we have been crying out for players like him who have the ability to get past defenders without having to knock the ball 20 yards in front, and having to chase it down. Can't blame him for not getting much playing time with Barcelona given the talent they have there. When we signed him, Maxi was struggling to get playing time at a less fancied club.
Duke Red
post Aug 15 2010, 08:43 AM

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QUOTE(skeleton202 @ Aug 14 2010, 06:37 PM)
huh???
done dealed or deal almost done???
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Silva's transfer was done so long ago, he's already played for Man City. Fairplag if you don't want to read up on the club but news like this is posted just about everywhere.

As for why we aren't linked to big names, you do realize we're kinda tight right now?

As for tonight's viewing, MyRAWK has planned to meet at Royal Oak in Jaya One as Flix has mentioned. PM me if you need directions.


Added on August 15, 2010, 9:25 am
QUOTE(kcmy @ Aug 15 2010, 02:37 AM)
Good,as i was hoping we can play with more attacking styles like Barca and Arsenal.
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Having attacking players doesn't necessarily equate to playing attacking football. Last year we had Benayoun, Gerrard, Babel, Riera, Aquilani, Maxi and Kuyt play in midfield, all of whom are 'attacking players'. Even Lucas prefers to play in a more advanced role as he did for Gremio. In the fullbacks slot, both Aurelio and Johnson loves to get forward. Two seasons ago, we showed that when we played a more positive brand of football, we could beat not only the best sides in England, but the best teams in the world.

The thing that I still don't quite get is why we didn't play attacking football last season despite having the same players bar Alonso?



This post has been edited by Duke Red: Aug 15 2010, 09:25 AM
Duke Red
post Aug 16 2010, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(triple02 @ Aug 15 2010, 08:24 PM)
anyone from here going later for the myrawk viewing party? hope to catch some if u there.
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Was good to finally meet you buddy. Was somewhat of a challenge to find your post again amidst all the narration. Kinda sucked that ASTRO decided to screw with us resulting in a good number of pubs/bars not being able to receive a signal. Thank god the mamak down the street had foresight eh? Must say though that watching football without much sound and with no beer in hand was a 'different' experience. Nonetheless, rest assured that the next outing will be planned more thoroughly. Hope to see you again then.

Back to the game. The first half was a reflection of how we played most of last season. We couldn't string more than 3 passes together and each time we had the ball, Arsenal pressed and we lost possession. At times I was wondering if we were the away side. Arsenal were the more fluid side but fortunately, our defence was water tight. I thought Agger had a good game considering he had to deal with players with much more pace than he has. Pity his vision was impaired after taking a shot in the face.

Mascherano was his usual inspiring self, hounding anyone and anything that entered his territory. However the midfield in general was disappointing if you ask me, particularly in the first half. Each time we tried to get forward, we were outnumbered and either lost possession or were forced to pass the ball back. There was little guile or creativity and Joe Cole's sending off did little to change that. I wouldn't call it a malicious challenge but I've seen players sent off for less. In the end it was more stupidity of his part than it was harshness on behalf of the ref. It was a nothing ball and he had absolutely no good reason for going through the defender.

One positive for me is the improvement of David N'Gog. He has had a pretty good pre-season so far and looks to have carried his form through to last night's game. Unlike last season, he held the ball up well and managed to get himself away from his marker on a number of occassions. His goal came out of nowhere which is often the hallmarks of an instinctive striker. Let's see if he can keep it up.

All in all if you had asked me if I would have taken the 1 point after Joe Cole had been sent off, I'd have said "yes" in a heartbeat. Still I can't help but feel a little sore that victory was snatched away at the last minute, so cheaply. Can't say I blame Pepe because I have the benefit of hindsight and I can say that he either should have knocked the ball out or smothered it, but it happened so fast, he probably lost his bearings a little. Having said that he did make a brilliant save earlier.

Decent start to the new season given I expect very little from us this time round.


Added on August 16, 2010, 11:30 am
QUOTE(mr_nobigdeal @ Aug 16 2010, 01:14 AM)
dont u guys think liverpool always hv a bad luck everytime the game almost ended with one goal in front?

for me, it suppose to be 3 points for liverpool and suddenly at the last mins, the opposite site get the goal which is a scrappy goal i can say.(pepe's own goal)

why oh why? how many time this happend last season.

i can say, it was a good game but this game shud give liverpool 3 pts. i dont think draw will be good tho.
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I've always maintained that luck is always used as a convenient excuse when you lose. It also takes a readers attention away from the fact that using the word, "luck", can sometimes cover up a teams ineficiencies. In the end we were outplayed for much of the game. The only reason people feel sorry for us is because of the manner in which we conceeded the equaliser. If Rosicky's attempt had sailed into the net earlier, few would feel that the result was harsh on us.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Aug 16 2010, 11:30 AM
Duke Red
post Aug 16 2010, 02:14 PM

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Cole got sent off so late in the first half and we scored so early in the second that I'm not really sure if going down to 10 men did change our approach to the game. We maintained the same lineup, but when attacking, pushed Gerrard further forward. It's true that we began the second half with aplomb but still, most of our chances came from deadballs and setpieces.

I realise that are positives to take from the match but at the same time, I'd like to look on the other side of the coin as well. Although it was heartening to see how we responded to going a man down, it was disheartening to note that when we had 11 players on the pitch, we were outplayed. Let's face it, I don't think we'll be arrogant enough to field 10 men against any team from the start. The same problems from last season surfaced again. We lacked craft going forward, and players looked uncertain of what to do when pressed.

Still, it's only the first game and all things considered, it was a good result in the end. I am not however fancying a trip to Man City although they were crap against Spurs. Pretty tough openers for us.
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post Aug 17 2010, 09:23 AM

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I disagree that N'Gog's goal was lucky. He clearly intended to place it on the top corner because it was the only way he was going to score. Was it Almunia's error? Hmmm a little harsh to penalise him I say. Firstly, the ball was hit with such venom, few keepers would have got their hands up in time. Secondly, he had to cover his far post as well in the event N'Gog chose to pass it across goal.
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post Aug 17 2010, 10:25 AM

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How were we affected by bad luck again?
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post Aug 17 2010, 01:50 PM

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Brad Jones is a decent keeper. Just 2 seasons ago, he and Ross Turnbull were both given even playing time by Middlesbrough. The latter has since signed for Chelsea and it's about time someone recognised Jones' ability.
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post Aug 17 2010, 08:33 PM

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Dude, it's just one game. I won't go as far as to conclude that Hodgson is better at organising defences than Rafa just yet.
Duke Red
post Aug 17 2010, 09:10 PM

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QUOTE(digilife @ Aug 17 2010, 08:49 PM)
we will see then if u dun believe me icon_rolleyes.gif

but i hav a very strong feeling tat RH is far more superior than RB, you knoe why?

because he speaks GOOD english and he can tell our fellow players wat he really wan down to the VERY FINE DETAILS....

listen to RB's English, even my little bro speaks better English than him, so how can you expect the players to FULLY underrstand him vmad.gif
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While language is important in getting your point across, it wasn't as though Rafa was a Juande Ramos who spoke no English. Rafa's English is pretty decent and even if it wasn't, he had Sammy Lee who speaks fluent Spanish, to get his points across. I really wouldn't use this to justify that Hodgson is "far more superior".

If anything I think Hodgson may be better at getting the best out of his players, and this has to do with man management, an area Rafa didn't exactly excel at. In terms of achievements, there is no comparison.
Duke Red
post Aug 17 2010, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(digilife @ Aug 17 2010, 09:27 PM)
he used more non spanish players which is good as spanish players are more fragile

maybe he should buy some tougher ones, Poulsen maybe
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That isn't what I meant when I said, "man management". I was referring to the fact that Rafa is a little colder and serious while Hodgson has the reputation of being warmer and more approachable. He talks to his players more and this puts them in a better frame of mind. Rafa used to sub players without telling them why and he was shy with his compliments. Imagine having a boss who talks to you all the time, giving you a pat on the back when you've done well as opposed to one who hardly speaks to you and when he does, asks for you to improve.

Spanish players are fragile in comparison to? Not many teams have English players anymore which is why you see a lot more playacting and simulation in the Premiership these days. The game has 'evolved' and it isn't about who can take a punch better. Referees are a little more whistle happy and the rules protect players more than they used to. Having said all that, Spanish players aren't exactly pansies. Xabi Alonso for example is from the Basque region of Spain where men are known for their toughness. I don't think Puyol and Pique are pushovers either. Also, Torres has shown that he possess good strength whenever he goes shoulder to shoulder with defenders bigger than him. Remember how he barged the brutish Bikey off the ball in his first season? Michael Duberry didn't do much better either.


Added on August 17, 2010, 9:55 pm
QUOTE(digilife @ Aug 17 2010, 09:47 PM)
RH wif his meagre staff of players ( half of his Fulham team cant even match Torres valuation alone )
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A reason why they only won 1 away game the entire season.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Aug 17 2010, 09:55 PM
Duke Red
post Aug 18 2010, 08:33 AM

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"Please don't take my Xabi away..." to the tune of "Que Sera Sera" sad.gif
Duke Red
post Aug 20 2010, 09:35 AM

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Positive
We won.

Negative
Taking a one goal lead to Turkey, where the fans are highly passionate and the environment can be really hostile is by no means encouraging.

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