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 No inheritence and gift tax in Malaysia?, Tax free for assets transfer to child?

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cherroy
post Jul 8 2010, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(newbie99 @ Jul 7 2010, 11:27 AM)
I paid tax and i used the money to buy properties, and to give them to my children when i pass on. The money has been taxed before, and i see injustice if i have to pay inheritance tax. I became rich for a reason - because i worked very hard, and there's no reason to penalise me just because i have become rich. All this money's not corrupted money.
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Well say and reasonable comment. smile.gif

But if look for another perspective, their siblings, children need not to work hard for the money, nor being taxed before, suddenly can get millions without a sweat, so the inheritance tax make a case in this issue.

I am not saying which way is right, don't get me wrong. smile.gif
cherroy
post Jul 8 2010, 11:31 PM

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QUOTE(legiwei @ Jul 8 2010, 10:56 PM)
Say the government were to go ahead with your suggestion to only impose tax above rm3 million.

Going by this suggestion, the general population that will be taxable will be low.

This means there will be a significant drop in the govt's income and will have to find ways to finance the shortage.

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We are talking about inheritance tax, not income tax, aka if the parent passed away or whatever, and the son/daughter or beneficier getting the money one will be taxed on inheritance tax, on top of income tax that had been paid by the parent.


cherroy
post Jul 10 2010, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(wankongyew @ Jul 9 2010, 12:08 PM)
I refrained from posting further in this thread because I felt that it was becoming more political and hence might be viewed as something more appropriate for Real World Issues. However, since a moderator has deigned to participate, I suppose it has the LYN Seal of Approval and therefore it is safe. As expected, most of the posters in this forum object to the imposition of inheritance and gift taxes (the two of them go hand in hand, it would silly to impose one without the other for obvious reasons). I will try to address your arguments is a fair and reasonable manner. Generally, as I see it, there are two main lines of argument:

1. The Malaysian government would waste the additional income anyway.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

2. Inheritance taxes are injust because my money has already been taxed once when I earn it!

First of all, whether you like it or not, double taxation is already a reality. You remember paying sales taxes in restaurants, right? This is going to get worse when the GST comes into being and that's how it works all over the world. Secondly, in Malaysia, it's not necessarily true that your money has already been taxed once, because Malaysia has no capital gains taxes! If you make a fortune by for example trading on the stockmarket, like Datuk Ishak Ismail recently did with Kenmark, you don't need to pay any income taxes on your gains at all and when you leave it all to your spoiled brats, they don't need to pay any inheritance taxes at all. Win-win! This is why Malaysia is a great country for capitalists. In fact, in countries that do have a capital gains tax, this is one major argument in favor of inheritance taxes, Without them, there would be a tax loophole when the capital gains are never realized when the original owner is alive and therefore never taxed.

But most importantly of all, arguing about the principle of double taxation is ultimately a pointless distraction. I can for example satisfy your desire to not have double taxation at all and still raise sufficient money for the state by arbitrarily raising one type of tax to ridiculous levels. For example, I could agree not to have inheritance taxes or sales taxes at all but in exchange I would raise income tax rates to, say, 70%? Would that make you happy? This is why when discussing taxes, you abandon silly talk about whether or not double taxation is right in principle. Instead, you pay attention to overall tax burdens after all of the different types of taxes are taken into account.

Given that we need a government, and given that governments need taxes to function, and given that we must distribute that tax burden across the entire population, most people agree that the best solution would be to impose progressive taxes. This is the principle that the rich should pay more taxes, not just as an absolute figure, but as a proportion of their wealth and income, than the poor. And it turns out that inheritance taxes are generally found to be the single most progressive tax possible.

Anyway, I have more to say about actual implementation details and why it's silly for middle-class people to oppose inheritance taxes, but that's all the energy I have for today.
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Please take aside the political issue, whether there is tax or whatever tax, we shouldn't take in political issue, or wastage issue. This is another front, which is more political.
Here, we would like to discuss about finance part of story. smile.gif

Remember chicken and egg issue on building management maintenance fee.
People claim apartment being not well managed and refuse to pay maintenance fee. Without maintenance fee, how can a building can be well managed.
Tax is a commitment and part of our capitalism world, which is inevitable. Just how well the tax being structure and seems fair across. <-- which is what we want to discuss here. Whether how the tax money is used, it is another front, which should be in RWI.

Inheritance tax won't affect individual that earn the money, so double taxation issue is not there to start with or their problem. So the claim of double taxation is weak actually, no offence. smile.gif
Large amount of money made by rich actually be come from capital gain, which is tax free. While if their children is inherit those money, they (the rich one) might contribute minimal tax as compared to ordinary middle class people.
The ideal tax system, is the more you earn, the more you pay.
So, in this issue, somehow, not quite right already.

Also, whether I or you suppport or oppose doesn't affect we directly, unless you/we will be inherit large sum of money afterwards.
It is the beneficier issue aka their or our children specifically.

Inheritance tax impose on certain amount the exceed the threshold like x million, sounds good on paper, but it opens up loopholes to be abused for sure.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jul 10 2010, 11:34 AM
cherroy
post Jul 10 2010, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(howszat @ Jul 10 2010, 11:42 AM)

One already pays tax based on income. The higher the income bracket, the more tax you pay. You pay this throughout your earning life. On top of this, you pay another layer of tax because you have earned and saved all the money. You could easily not bother to save or not bother to work to earn that much in the first place, and not pay a cent of inheritance tax. Those are facts. What one "feels" is irrelevant.

The practical reality is you pay taxes because it pays for all those government services that benefits everyone. The point is about the fairness of the taxation system and how much tax you end up paying, and how much govt services you get in return. The point is never about whether tax money is "really ours" or "not really ours" - those are meaningless phrases.
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But as above my post, you are not going to be taxed again, it is your children or beneficier pay the tax, when they inherit it.

cherroy
post Jul 10 2010, 04:08 PM

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QUOTE(howszat @ Jul 10 2010, 12:01 PM)
A bit like company dividends which have already been taxed at source. So when the share holder gets it, the source taxation is taken into account.

Of course, all depends on the actual mechanics of the inheritance tax calculations.
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I understand this perspective, this is to avoid a person to pay double taxation.
But for inheritance tax, it is different.

A single person only pay once the tax involved.
You earned an income, you pay income tax, then you won't pay it again.
It is your children if inherit your money without a sweat that pay the inheritance tax.

If look from individual perspective when you have an income (in this case, you inherit, still consider an income for those inherit the money), then you only being taxed once.
So, there is no double taxation on individual.

In Malaysia, we don't have capital gain tax which is already a big advantage especially for the rich and wealthy group of people, as capital gain generally is the major source that make people rich.
While when the rich passes the wealth to their children or beneficier, within the whole process, the money/wealth/income is not being taxed once.

Also inheritance tax is not on your but your beneficier of your money, so you as individual won't be affected at all.

Inheritance tax can be better than income tax in term of moral perspetive.

Income, we need to work hard for it, so somehow we feel the pain in paying the tax, as those money is something we work hard for it.
Inherit, you get something without a sweat, doesn't it deserve to be taxed more than income tax?

cherroy
post Jul 11 2010, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(Gen-X @ Jul 11 2010, 02:09 AM)
Having said the above, the "rich families" are paying some form of  "inheritance & capital gain tax" in the form of income tax. Most rich families are rich not because they have tons of cash but have shares in companies (which are passed to the next generation), and these companies would be paying income tax (which include disposal off their investments/assets  and the shareholders which inherited the shares would be getting less). Therefore the abolishment of capital gain tax actually benefits the not so rich hardworking wage earner individuals that are smart enough to invest in whatever they invest in.

As for GST, well I guess it would definitely affect all but the rich would be paying more taxes too as their transactions value are higher. If you ask me, the present tax system is unfair, less than 3.8% of the entire Malaysia Population pays income tax and that includes me. From my point of view, the other 96% of the population of Malaysia is enjoying my hardwork. With GST, all those individuals running illegal businesses/getting corrupt money would also be paying taxes and thus contributing to the "well being" of the country.
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Investment and asset disposal still fall under capital gain, which is non-taxable.
It is company operational income subjected to income tax.

So if a wealthy and rich person rich because of shares of company or investment, little tax are paid in between.

Yes, I agree inheritance tax is difficult to carry out, due to a lot of loop hole. On paper looks good only, implementation is not.
Yes, GST can be a better system and fair.

But if the rich earn a lot and not spending, under GST system, they won't pay much tax either, as GST work based on the more you spend, the more you pay the tax.
Some may argue, I only earn merely Rm1500 per month, I still need to pay tax with GST system, while existing income tax system based on income, I don't need to pay the tax at all.
There is no perfect system. smile.gif

 

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