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 LYN Proton Saga/Iswara Drivers' Forum! V22, For all those SagaIswara Enthusiast

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samuraiman
post Aug 17 2010, 01:25 AM

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hi all sifu sifu here...
i hv an iswara sedan year 2000 with body frame and suspension still nice (well maintained)... just the original engine 4g13 kong koz always rev high... even i got change the engine oil in time and using better engine oil all the time... below is my true story with my iswara... its a fun with my iswara and i had learn a lot with it...

4g13 is not powerful enof for me so always rev high and also always do burnout using ori 13inch rims and tires b4 the rims bengkok and upgrade to 16inch... those ori rim and tyres often make me accidentally drift on wet road especially when cornering too fast (with lowered spring and absorber plus front strut bar)... real drift... not powerslide or oversteer... the lowered iswara is stable when i cornering that i can do those drift action like reflect action when the rear tires skid accidentally... after changing to 16 inch rims with 205/45/r16 tyres the iswara become so stable that i cannot perform many act on wet road... dont even think to do it on dry road...

the lowered spring is too hard that i don't felt comfort when driving on bumpy road that after the lowered absorber (4get what brand liao) kong then i chage back to apm shock absorber with normal spring... this time the car become so damn high that the car will roll and twist when cornering that i felt that the car want to lost control and turn over when hard cornering... for example, if i can turn the roundabout with 70kmh steadily without skid with lowered spring and absorber but with normal absorber and higher spring i can just turn the same roundabout with speed 55 - 60kmh and the car will swing like hell when i do cornering...

at first i want to change the engine to 4g63t and "play" with my car without endorsement ( coz the engine mounting will surely be relocated if not mistaken and it is impossible for the car to pass puspakom endorsement now without...) but get stopped by my parents... after negotiate with them then they allowed me to modify my car legally... i had put a budget of rm10k ( save from ang pow money and my work) in modifying my car...

now plan to change to 4g91, coz still in range (1300 * 125% = 1625cc)...
actually i want to upgrade to 4g92 mivec engine for more hp but realy hard to find that engine in sarawak...

i want to ask is wat i can modify onto the 4g91 engine so that i can plug in turbo charger or supercharger??? does those turbo boost help in increasing the hp of this engine (without modifying the engine)???

for what i know is illegal to change the engine block... so for my case can i just bore the cylinder to fit bigger piston if i want to turbocharge the engine??? which piston is suitable for this, 4g93,4g63 or toyota piston???
did i need to change also the gear box??? what turbo kit or supercharger kit is suitable or can be modified to fit into my car???

my iswara now got 16 inch rims and i plan to upgrade also the brake system from stock to vr4 front and rear disc brake... can i use those aftermarket brake disc which is bigger and with holes which is more 'sporty' look??? can suggest what brand is better???

if i change the engine to 4g91 then can i stick back to the 16inch rims or i need to change to 15inch rims for better acceleration???

i had already put on UR front strut bar in my car for better stability when cornering but i still don't satisfied by the stability of my car... what other important bars i hv to put on to increase the stability of the car??? did bigger front and rear anti roll bars help???

if i change the engine i need to change the whole ekzos system also... to increase the engine performance did i need to change the original extractor??? what is the difference between the extractor 4 to 2 to 1 and extractor 4 to 1 in increasing the engine performance??? how big is the piping if i need to have better fc and also increase in engine performance??? which type of muffler i can use??? what is the differences between the muffler with over tip or round tip???

that's all i want to ask now... thank you for your advice...
samuraiman
post Aug 17 2010, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Aug 17 2010, 03:33 AM)
sime no good.. continental average niaa... if want good, take ps3, s-drive, re001, GSD3, etc...
yes, u can plonk in a turbocharger or supercharger into ur 4g91 with low boost pressure... yes it will increase horsepower by forcing more air into the engine... i dont know whats ur definition of "modifying the engine"... so, no comment on that...

when u change to 4g91, u are changing the block already... yes u can rebore the block to fit bigger piston... but it is not recommended if u going forced induction... and if u planning to go for forced induction, i suggest u to get 4g92 block with 4agze piston... those piston are semi-forged (if not mistaken)... get thicker metal head gasket for low compression purpose... u can start off with td04 turbine... relatively cheap to start with... as usual, u need other components as well if u going for turbocharging... as for supercharger, i'm not very familiar with it though...
temporary u dont need to modify ur gearbox... maintain standard ratio good enough d... use better clutch or racing clutch if budget permits...

yes u can use aftermarket slotted/cross drilled rotors... make sure its compatible with vr4 oem rotors, if u are planning to install vr4 complete brake set to ur car...

of coz u can stick back to 16"... u can use any size of rim as long as it clears ur uprated brake set... dont forget to use good rubbers... bad quality wide tyres arent necessary better than good quality less wide ones.... yes, smaller/lighter wheels gives better acceleration...

many more stabilizer bars available for saga iswara... try browse thru ultraracing website for complete list... adding 1 bar aint gonne give huge improvement.... as in bars, the more the better...

yes u need to change the whole exhaust system as well... 4g13 extractor will not fit 4g91... it is 2 different type of engine... as for piping setup, presumably u are going forced induction, a larger piping is needed... we will touch on this once u finalize what u are going to do with ur engine...
ps: macha, dun multipost laa...
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sorry... because i saw the 4G subforum first then i finally found this place... i tot this place already missing coz so long not hanging around this forum...
so i will stick to here from now onwards...

This post has been edited by samuraiman: Aug 17 2010, 03:30 PM
samuraiman
post Aug 17 2010, 03:06 PM

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QUOTE(rozz_1291 @ Aug 17 2010, 06:47 AM)
Sifu catacombs sudah spoken notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif

btw, plonking in a 4G6series engine won't affect ur engine mounting. But jumping from 1300cc to 2000cc displacement is impossible unless u "ahem" those officers with $$$ rclxms.gif  Best to get the 4G61T engine.

Since urs 1.3L y dun u straight go for 4G92DOHC/P terus??? Maxed out the displacement limit. Make sure the crossmember front and rear mounting are properly measured, aligned and welded. Same goes with ur timing belt side mounting. Custom made mounting with proper welding not "taik kambing" welding nod.gif

As for the UR add-on stabilizer bars, try completing the whole set thats available like:

Front Upper Struts 3point
Front Lower Arm 2point
Fender Bars 3point
Side Bars 4point
Mid Lower Arm 4point
Rear ARB 19mm
Room Bar 2point
Rear Struts 3point
Rear Upper Bar 2point

Wat else did I missed out??? anyway, if u r still not satisfy enuf with the handling/stabilities after adding all those bars above, time to rollcage the whole car la laugh.gif

About the turbocharging chapter, no comment. I m still noob in turbos sleep.gif
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it is hard to find 4g92 mivec manual transmission as i m in sarawak... what do u mean by "aligned and welded"??? if i change to 4g92 i need to relocate all the engine mounting??? if lik tat still can pass the puspakom endorsement??? (i need my car to be street legal)

and for all the ultra racing bars my friend who own a workshop says not all the bars is important as i m not going to for rally... he says only some of the important bar i can put onto my car
1. front upper strut bar...mayb change to apexi (if not mistaken is this brand) 4 point
2.front anti roll bar
3.rear anti roll bar
4.room bar
5.rear strut bar
6.rear upper bar

i dont know actually how many bars left but if if my budget is enof then i will put on all...


Added on August 17, 2010, 3:14 pm
QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Aug 17 2010, 03:33 AM)
yes, u can plonk in a turbocharger or supercharger into ur 4g91 with low boost pressure... yes it will increase horsepower by forcing more air into the engine... i dont know whats ur definition of "modifying the engine"... so, no comment on that...

when u change to 4g91, u are changing the block already... yes u can rebore the block to fit bigger piston... but it is not recommended if u going forced induction... and if u planning to go for forced induction, i suggest u to get 4g92 block with 4agze piston... those piston are semi-forged (if not mistaken)... get thicker metal head gasket for low compression purpose... u can start off with td04 turbine... relatively cheap to start with... as usual, u need other components as well if u going for turbocharging... as for supercharger, i'm not very familiar with it though...
temporary u dont need to modify ur gearbox... maintain standard ratio good enough d... use better clutch or racing clutch if budget permits...

yes u can use aftermarket slotted/cross drilled rotors... make sure its compatible with vr4 oem rotors, if u are planning to install vr4 complete brake set to ur car...

of coz u can stick back to 16"... u can use any size of rim as long as it clears ur uprated brake set... dont forget to use good rubbers... bad quality wide tyres arent necessary better than good quality less wide ones.... yes, smaller/lighter wheels gives better acceleration...

many more stabilizer bars available for saga iswara... try browse thru ultraracing website for complete list... adding 1 bar aint gonne give huge improvement.... as in bars, the more the better...

yes u need to change the whole exhaust system as well... 4g13 extractor will not fit 4g91... it is 2 different type of engine... as for piping setup, presumably u are going forced induction, a larger piping is needed... we will touch on this once u finalize what u are going to do with ur engine...
ps: macha, dun multipost laa...
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thank you sifu...

for what i mean is a 4g91 original with bot... not modifying the 4g91 enigne (all the interior parts stick back to original 4g91 parts)...

as i know it is illegal if i use 4g91 with 4g63 block, rite??? the engine number is stamped on the block... if i past endorsement with 4g91 and change the block then count as illegal too...

for the tyres can give suggestion on good tyre??? now my car is using two continental sportcontact 1 205/45/r16 for the wheels infront (coz at the shop tat times got only 3 tyres that i cant change all 4) and two cheap indonesia corsa 205/45/r16 tyres at the back...

This post has been edited by samuraiman: Aug 17 2010, 03:15 PM
samuraiman
post Aug 17 2010, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(shazmn @ Aug 17 2010, 03:00 PM)
hey...this might be an old question but i've been searching all over...

can iswara lmst headlamp fitted to lmss???

read somewhere they said there will be a gap but have no pictures to see...
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all head lamp can b fitted... just if u dare to modify it

for me after my head lamp broken i mod in nissan s13 projector head lamps...

i havent fill the big gap between my fibre bonet and the lamp but will do it and respray the whole car after replant the engine...

This post has been edited by samuraiman: Aug 17 2010, 03:27 PM


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samuraiman
post Aug 17 2010, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Aug 17 2010, 04:31 PM)
yes... to fit 4g9x engine into saga iswara chassis, u need to relocate engine mounting... datz why krz8v told u to reweld and realign the mounting properly so it wont look like taik kambing... taik kambing welding usually will not pass puspakom inspection...

didnt know apexi got make strut bars one... lolz...

others i replied u in technical talk...

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what is the differences between good tyres and average one??? now if i want to change tyres i will do burnout until 'song' with my present tyres ( front 205/45/r16after install 4g91 with BOT then change to good one... very sayang to use good and expensive tyres to do burnout...

and about the spring... the car will shake if drive on bad road condition after i install lower sport spring... if i install back to iswara ori spring than will become high, comfort but not steady when cornering... how can i modify so that i feel comfort when driving and stable when cornering??? did UR anti roll bar helps??? can i install more than 1 arb in front (just kidding)???

i think to separate my questions into two parts... abt the engine 4g91 i will ask at technical talk n abt the rest of the part of iswara i will ask here... rite???


Added on August 17, 2010, 10:49 pm
QUOTE(rozz_1291 @ Aug 17 2010, 10:05 PM)
Get the normal 4G92 Mitsubishi saja lor.... Since u said 4G92 Mivec is rare and hard to find there. Btw, 4G92 Mivec expensive la....

4G9series engine u gotta relocate the mountings. If the mounting is properly as I mention b4, u won't have any problem endorsing it.

As for the add-on bars.... All the bars are not important. Its juz weather got improve in handling or not, big or small improvement.
1. Front Strut (Not much improvement feeling)
2. Front Lower Arm (improve)
3. Fender bars (improve alot)
4. Side bars (improve)
5. Mid lower (improve abit)
6. Rear ARB (improve alot) can whack corners
7. Room bar (dunno.... sum says improve, sum says same feeling only)
8. Rear Struts (Rear feels abit more solid)
9. Rear upper (Ask sifoo Catacombs) tongue.gif

I would recommend u to stick with Ultra Resing brand. Most of us are using it and so far, no problem at all. Our SagaIswara is equip with Front ARB edi, and I dun think so there's aftermarket Front ARB for our cars yet unless custom made.

10q... i totally forget 4g92 got non mivec... my mechanic says i can install 4g92 without relocate the engine mounting... just need modify a bit of the original engine mount... donno is true or not...

for the front strut bar, which was installed in my car is the three point one... just like in the picture... but now already bent a bit coz i once self accident... the front wheel at the passenger side hit the road divider after i come out from roundabout too fast and my car fly into the bushes... the car rotate 180 degree horizontally and the driver site hit the ground too hard that both tyres at driver site burst... after the car was repaired then i notice the front strut bar was bent a little bit but it was not covered in the insurance... my mechanic says if i don't install that bar surely the structure of my car will run... now the body structure of my car still ok...

QUOTE(rozz_1291 @ Aug 17 2010, 10:09 PM)

I dun get wat do you mean 4G91 original with BOT. Izzit 4G91 then BOT it or ??? blink.gif

U can't pair 4g91 with 4G63 block. Neva seen it b4. 2 diffrnt generations engine la.... Newer and Older model. And u can't stamp engine numbers on two diffrnt engine series sleep.gif
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sorry... 4g91 original engine no modified then BOT...

sorry... typing mistake... is 4g91 with 4g93 block... i want my car to be road legal that i cant change the engine block... i heard that turbocharge it is illegal also... rite???

This post has been edited by samuraiman: Aug 17 2010, 10:49 PM
samuraiman
post Aug 18 2010, 12:32 AM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Aug 17 2010, 11:00 PM)
difference between good tyres and average ones is the price... and of coz the grip and performance laa... if feels the same what for the need to use expensive tyre... for ur current tyre, its up to u what u wanna do with it la... u wanna use it to reserve parking at home or use as flower pot also can one... vr good alternative...

there is no such thing as comfort and good handling all in 1 package... well, at least not the best of both world... u need to get the balance between it... chassis and suspension tuning is not as easy as engine tuning... (at least in malaysia yes).... first of all, chassis must be strong and rigid... reducing chassis flex is important... 2nd, get good shocks which pairs up with good spring... i recommend u to get coilovers... at least the shocks are properly paired with the spring rate... mix and match i more or less like trial and error method... in the end u might even spend more...
no u cannot add another antiroll bar in front... 1 will do.. if u need a thicker one in front, u may enquire from UR to custom one for u... price ranges around rm4xx... overly reduced bodyroll on either front or rear can cause handling problem as well... hence, "bigger is not alwiz better"applies in antiroll bar as well...

4g91 with 4g93 block can be done... u will need to register ur engine as 4g93 as it follows the code on the block... turbocharging an engine is legal... hence, dont need to go through puspakom...
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my tyres is still 95% of thread infront and 85% behind... i want to do burn out coz is lousy tyres... and for the grip those tyres has grip far better than the original iswara 175/??/r13 one... even on wet road i feel more steady...

i had already ask my friend who had tried the coilover absorber and they say the spring is as hard as the sport spring... i think of getting original spring and arbsorber with bigger arb custom make from ur or taken from halfcut to replace the one originally in car... as for my understanding, if the front arb is too thick that the car doesn't roll abit during hard cornering the front tyres will skid coz no pressure applied onto the outer tyres to prevent skidwhen turning... and for the rear abs if too thick the rear tyres will skid easily and each times when cornering hv to drift through the corner... correct me if i m wrong...

if 4g91 with 4g93 block i will rather get a 4g93T... but i just can get to 4g91 coz 4g92 is harder to get and i can only upgrate to 1625CC... if 4g91 with 4g93 block is it count as 1.6L or 1.8L??? can i use the 4g93 code and register as 4g91???


Added on August 18, 2010, 12:37 am
QUOTE(rozz_1291 @ Aug 18 2010, 12:27 AM)
@samuraiman

Sum poison for u.... brows.gif  Dun think too much, juz do it like Nike thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif

user posted image
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THAT'S NOT POISON!!! THAT IS T VIRUS WITH NO VACCINE!!!

i want to turbo charge the 4g91 not becoz of the BOV sound (although i lik the sound), i want to extract more HP from 4g91 until reach it limits... i like the push back feel when the car accelerate faster...

This post has been edited by samuraiman: Aug 18 2010, 12:39 AM
samuraiman
post Aug 18 2010, 03:21 AM

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QUOTE(Shawnzz @ Aug 18 2010, 12:49 AM)
put 4g61t only la. Direct fit. Dont have to mod anything. Ask rozz bring you for a ride. Consperm u wan 4g61t already.

Anyways, if you wanna play with turbo, why not get a engine design for turbo. if get 4g91, have to play alot of things, internals , turbine, intercooler, ecu and alot of hours spend in the workshop.
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i want my car to be road legal... but the original engine is 1.3L... for 1300 * 125% is 1625cc...

my mechanic says that it is easier for me to upgrade to 4g91 as 4g91 MT is easier to get compare to 4g92 MT coz i m in sarawak... and if i want to upgrade to engine more than 1.6L it can be say as impossible to get approved (or else i use another way)... 4g93T is 1.8L and 4g63T is 2.0L...


Added on August 18, 2010, 3:26 am
QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Aug 18 2010, 02:09 AM)
there is no halfcut antiroll bar for saga iswara... ready made aftermarket ones are only from UR and its only for rear... front antiroll bar needs to be custom made because there is no aftermarket manufacturer bothered to make it...

too thick front antiroll bar will cause understeer while too thick rear antiroll bar will cause oversteer... but this also depending on other factor such as tyre limit, front/rear chassis flex, wheel alignment, etc... thats why chassis and handling tuning is much harder compare to engine tuning... it has to suit the driver's driving characteristics...

4g93 is 1.8L engine... yes if u planning to get 4g91 with 4g93 block, it is advisable to jz get 4g93t engine... internals are much stronger and can withstand higher boost pressure... yes u can use 4g93 block with 4g91 code stamped onto the block... this is illegal and not advisable to do it....  sleep.gif
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sorry... for what i mean is the 4g91 with 49g3 block using the 4g93 code but register as 4g91(1.5L)...

This post has been edited by samuraiman: Aug 18 2010, 03:26 AM
samuraiman
post Aug 18 2010, 07:01 AM

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QUOTE(rozz_1291 @ Aug 18 2010, 06:16 AM)
Dats y shawnzz mention to plonk in 4G61T inside ur Saga. Its easier to get it endorse compared with 4G9series engine. since u r planning to play with terbos, might as well u plonk in a 4G92, get it endorse and then only u swap the whole engine to 4G93T. Except the block number u can try risking punching it.
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i tot 4g61T is turbocharged engine that cannot pass endorsement... that is what my mechanic told me... how much is the engine??? will it over rm10k???

and compare both engine 4g61 and 4g91... which one is older??? can i still get the spare part for 4g61???

for the 4g61T if i want just istall the whole engine with original turbo into my car or did i need to change bigger turbo, bigger intercooler , e-manage, and so on to extract more power from it???

This post has been edited by samuraiman: Aug 18 2010, 07:39 AM
samuraiman
post Aug 18 2010, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(Gilbert5107 @ Aug 18 2010, 11:18 AM)
doh.gif  doh.gif


Added on August 18, 2010, 11:19 am
u can pair with it. but std abs wont last long wink.gif
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is iswara ok with those pro ride shock absorber and sport spring coz i feel the spring is very hard that it was not comfortable when driving on bumpy road... i can feel my case flex and twist and my door seal got sound...
samuraiman
post Aug 19 2010, 03:30 AM

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QUOTE(rozz_1291 @ Aug 19 2010, 01:56 AM)
Plonk in 4G63T VR4 saja la.... setel. Go change bigger terbo, piston, stroked higher, bigger incooler and etc. 4g61T is a low compression durable engine only.... u can't gain much unless u rojak the parts with VR4RS/MirageRS or Ebo internals. By the time u re-bore or stroke the engine for bigger displacement, the block is not gonna last like original anymore.

If u compare Evo3 CR 9.5 with Mirage CR 8.0 only.... Dats y evo3 has better pickup @ low end and higher horse output. But evo3 ezy to pecah if not properly maintain nod.gif
i m at sarawak here n can get only 4g91 AT... below are the picture of the engine i will bought... i need to take time to check and buy the things myself...
as from the seller the engine is 93% new and he can start for me when i go to see the engine...
any good advice for me if i wan to check the condition of the engine???
user posted image
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This post has been edited by samuraiman: Aug 19 2010, 03:31 AM
samuraiman
post Aug 19 2010, 07:31 AM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Aug 19 2010, 04:26 AM)
hmm.gif  hmm.gif  hmm.gif
got very serious oil leak... better check properly... if can press down his price some more as much as possible...
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oli leak??? lubricant oil leak??? seal broken??? or just oil split from other engine???
the lowest price he offer is rm5300 without shipping...

This post has been edited by samuraiman: Aug 19 2010, 07:31 AM
samuraiman
post Dec 28 2010, 12:55 AM

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after doing some research and got adviced by my mech, i decided to go from modifying my iswara stock 4g13(to 4g16 by using 4g16 stroker kit) to have engine transplant... as i cant get any suitable engine at my place (my aim is get a 4g91 or 4g92 or 4g92 mivec), at last i go for 4g93t gsr engine (the only halfcut i can get after searching for 1 month... haiz)

i dont want to hear any commen that 4g93T is not suitable for iswara because I HAD DECIDED TO GO WITH IT!!! i just want to know what to do do make iswara so that it can withstand the power of the engine...

for what i had done:

1. taking out stock 4g13
2. disassemble the 4g93T GSR halfcut
3. put 4g93T into iswara engine bay to design for custom made engine mounting... (not relocate engine mounting but is costom made mounting which connect the engine to the chassis)
4. disassemble the whole 4g93T to do overhauling n cleaning (almost die cleaning all pistons with petrol)

what i will do onto the 4g93T...
1.port n polish cylinder head
2.install racing bearings (king bearings)
3.upgrade turbo to td05 16g (coz want to be street drived)
4.upgrade injector to 650CC each
5.use microtech
6.use custom turbo manifold with wastegate
7.use profect b boost controller
8.use big intercooler (bigger than GSR, evo3)

as the gsr halfcut comes with automatic transmission and i haven't found suitable lsd gearbox so i will use back stock gearbox 1st...

i will put on all ultra racing bars if needed after engine installation... i just want any advice if i just had to put necessary bars or i had to put all bars... got someone advice me if i put all bars some parts of the chassis will torn easily... is that true???

i know that for fwd car with big hp engine, when turbo kick in the front wheels will lose traction (except if use semi xxx i 4get already tyres)... i m using 16inch rims with 205/45/r16 tyres n how about if i use bigger tyres??? like 205(215)/50/r16??? i have another set of 2nd hand japan enkei rims, front 205/50/r16 back 225/50/r16... haven't tried on my car... if the tyres was too big and will knock onto mudguard then i will do a little bit wide body... hehe...

below is some of the process picture... (lasy to post all pictures... about 100++)

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my car stock 4g13 engine

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4g93t in halfcut

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AT taking apart from engine

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4g93t with 4g13 transmission

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smaller housing... haiz...

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4g93t put into engine bay 1st for disigning custom made engine mounting

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engine disassembly

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head with cams

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engine disassembly in process

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valves



This post has been edited by samuraiman: Dec 28 2010, 01:27 AM

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