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 iPhone 4 and iOS 4 V2, Discussion Thread

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ck_yoong
post Jun 24 2010, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(monked @ Jun 24 2010, 09:50 PM)
well from i notice, i think Apple do know it will affect the signal, that well they introduce BUMPER.
apple always left out this and that , so that the more apps developer will come in to fill the hole ..
developer are earning from it, so there will be more and more developer for apple =)
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Maybe using Invisible Shield or Bodyguard could prevent the reception loss for those who do not like a cover like me ..
ck_yoong
post Jun 27 2010, 11:16 AM

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I think many people misunderstood the engineered glass. It is engineered to be stronger when it is subjected to certain stress such as bending (Iphone 4 introduction video time 5.22) where it can perform well. And no such glass can be bent that much without breaking.

And on the hype up video Iphone 4 drop test, the Iphone was drop from a certain distance. As the Iphone 4 hits the floor it is subject to an impact force. Such a force usually has a greater effect than a lower force applied over a proportionally longer time period of time like bending in the video. Therefore the glass breaks but it is already pretty durable to withstand 2 drops.

ck_yoong
post Jul 7 2010, 06:06 AM

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QUOTE(beavis68 @ Jul 7 2010, 02:24 AM)
i got something to add to it.

y some ppl must say that 1st batch of iphone 4 got problem and will wait till 2nd batch iphone 4. what make u think that 2nd batch iphone 4 will be better than 1st batch? isn't all iphone is the same......do they change any part in it in 2nd batch, be more mature in making any comment. dun be silly....y dun just wait for 20th batch it will be no problem at all??????
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I have a different opinion on that, 1st batch and 2nd batch and so on batch may have differences just like for cars. If the first batch of cars have common problems report, manufacturers rectify the problem in the 2nd batch of cars and so on.

Back to the iphone, for example the yellowish screen is caused by the manufacturing or assembly process flaw. Therefore the 2nd batch may undergo a different/improved manufacturing process to reduce that defect occurrence in the product down the line ie 2nd batch and so on.

Also for example apple says that the formula to calculate signal bar strength is wrong which affects the 1st batch of phones. Therefore the software update maybe applied directly to the 2nd batch of phones which reduces customers frustration of updating it themselves.

Waiting the 20th batch which is an exaggerated figure may actually be a good idea as the occurrence of problems is minimized because all manufacturing companies try to reduce to amount of rejected parts/phones to as closely possible to zero.

Cheers
ck_yoong
post Jul 7 2010, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(beavis68 @ Jul 7 2010, 08:58 AM)
i think your opinion is back to square one. if you do enough research, the yellowish screen is due to the glue not properly dried. this is not due to hardware problem. how they going to improved it? dun use glue? they will still use the glue on the screen maybe this time apple will let it dried properly before they send out to their customer.

calculation on signal bar is due to software problem, in future u might get an iphone which already updated to their new software to rectify this issue. but then this is also a software problem and nothing is done on hardware. still the first batch get the software update as the same as 2nd batch iphone. unless u say they totally changed their antenna hardware, then it can consider 2nd batch is better, that will net be likely going to happen.

so 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th batch basically is all the same. i stated 20th batch it a just a sarcasm.
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I don't think I am back to square one, is that you are missing the point. Yeah I know it is due to the glue problem that is why I said a manufacturing/assembly problem. They may improve it by using another type of glue, there are so many types of glue and no glue as you said is also possible. Or maybe let it dry longer I agree with you. Hence they are doing this to improve further quality of the 2nd and so on batch of iphones.

I just want to point out to you that there are differences with the 1st batch and 2nd batch it does not necessary be a whole revamp ie. antenna design revamp, it can be minor changes along the line to reduce a defect occurrence hence lesser warranty claims lesser fuss .

So there is a difference between 1st and 2nd batch, for you I guess the improvement is not sufficient.


Added on July 7, 2010, 11:06 am
QUOTE(xaw5126 @ Jul 7 2010, 10:33 AM)
you know... for all the bleating & complaining I keep hearing... my response has always been the same.

1. there is no better phone on the market. NONE!
2. I will personally share with anyone who wants to learn about iPhone3G or 3G[S] or iPhone4 ... everything I know about it.
3. Even if the reports are all true, there is still no better phone on the market right now, and I have no faith that Samsung / RIM / HTC can actually engineer a better phone. They simply don't understand that it *must* be made simple enough that an 8-year old can pick it up and start using it, before the mass-market consumer types will buy it.
4. If the reported issues are really scaring you away from the best phone in the market right now, then get out of the way, we want one!
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Wow even engadget do not dare to say that "there is a no better phone on the market. NONE!" or "there is still no better phone on the market right now" when comparing the iphone 4 with the HTC Evo.

However I will stick to Engadget review between the phones rather than yours which is more professional.

Quoted from endgadget:

Hoo boy. This is a tough one, isn't it? In our years at Engadget, we've rarely seen such deafening debate and adulation for a pair of devices. In one corner we have the iPhone 4, coming off a few relatively easy rounds atop the smartphone mind share heap. However, the Droid and its ilk have weakened Apple's spot, and here comes the HTC EVO 4G in for the kill, sporting a larger screen, 4G data, and all manner of HTC sexy. If the devices themselves weren't enough, the debate has turned into something larger and metaphorical, with Apple representing tight restrictions and a singular top down vision, while Google's Android stands for something perhaps a bit more haphazard but democratizing. The gloves come off after the break.

Of course, the easy answer is that they're both great phones. The truth of the matter is that what might make the EVO the perfect smartphone for one person doesn't necessarily pop up on another person's radar. In many cases (like this author's, for instance), there are many pros and cons on both platforms and devices that makes the decision difficult, almost painful. We're going to try to lay out the facts, so that you have the best material at your disposal for making the decisions, but we're not going to call the decision "easy" or "cut and dry" for anybody. This is a road we all eventually walk alone... into an Apple or Sprint store.

Wrap Up:

You know the facts, you've heard the arguments, you've passively observed the roar of comments from each side... now follow your heart! ( I don't read a "no better phone on the market.NONE!") icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by ck_yoong: Jul 7 2010, 11:08 AM
ck_yoong
post Jul 7 2010, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Jul 7 2010, 11:17 AM)
If following your logic, then there's always possibility that they'll introduce new, unexpected flaws into the manufacturing process. New, fast reacting, drying glue, that may not meld the screen properly compared to the slower drying glue that gave out the yellow tint. Hydrophobic antennas that is not susceptible to signal reception degradation, that is susceptible to other tactile interferences. Apple streamlining the manufacturing process by introducing cheaper component/material on later batches to save cost and maximise profit. Yes, that has happens lots of time for electronics because these components are supplied by third party. The Retina Display screen itself is sourced by two companies, LG and Samsung to cover for the unexpected demand surge. Who is to say which screen yields better result?

There is and always will be manufacturing flaws, no matter if you purchase it on launch, or if you wait for the 20th batch. So if that is the case, then why wait? And also if that is the case, then why bother with warranties at all if you're prone to getting select bad units from good batches?

Bottom line is, it happens to everyone. Either you're lucky or you're not. The logic of waiting for next batch and you think you'll be safe from previous batch flaws is a placebo at best. I've had product bought at launch that outperform and outlasts the same product but built 3 years later! Case in point? My Xbox 360 purchased at launch from November 22nd, 2005. 5 years later, and yet, it has not overheated like the rest of the units purchased by folks last year and has kicked the bucket. Am I just lucky or has the manufacturer put extra emphasis on the device QC so that it does not get a bad rep later during the launch to entice further purchase from those sitting over the fence like you? Probably, and fence-sitters like you, after looking over at the design issues being trivial and nonexistant, decides to take the plunge after several batches. That still does make you invulnerable to defects, in fact your possibility of getting a lemon is greater since production numbers have been ramped up and QC goes down exponentially as numbers increases, unless they ramp up the number of QC personnels and tighten up the QC monitoring process, which in both incur additional cost, which most companies would like not to spend on, because it eats into the profit they're already generating on their current processes.

In short, getting it first or getting it last does not guarantee you a defect-free product. The whole line of "wait and see" angle of things is just you yourself wanting to assure yourself that you stand a better chance getting a defect-free product than getting it at launch. Does not apply every time, from the history of things. Take it from me who had been buying electronics and gadgets for more than 12 years. And most of my stuff are from first launches. Go figure.


Added on July 7, 2010, 11:23 amAs for sticking to Engadget compared to xaw's take on things, you're drawing your line of bias there already.

You're taking it as a tech enthusiast's point of view. Remember, we're all geeks and nerds, we're acclimatised to all these tech specs nerderies and comfortable with tinkering and setting up our gadgets to our likings. However, there's a whole wide world out there, filled with people who aren't like us, who are more inclined to choose a phone based on how easy to use it, WITHOUT losing out on the features that was once enjoyed by tech geeks with their extensive tinkerings. Enter the iPhone.
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I think you lost me too. I wrote that reduce defect occurrence not defect free in the 2nd batch and so on. I agree with you it is also based on luck sometimes. However with reduced defect occurrence due to improvements I think there is much better luck in getting a defect free phone in the second batch. So 1st batch phone and 2nd batch phones is not the same as beavis said.

But I think you need to back up the fact that you said that once production number goes up and QC goes down exponentially as number increases in my view is not true.

Conclusion is there is a difference in the 1st and 2nd batch however the 2nd batch does not mean 100% defect free but a improved chance of getting a perfect phone. For those who get their phone early enjoy your phone (soon I will join XD) and people who is wait and see aka cautious buyer (2.5k is pretty big sum) go ahead nothing wrong.

Plus that is why we have warranty people thumbup.gif

P/S: I was not aware that fanboy post are also welcomed here lets poison the world icon_rolleyes.gif


ck_yoong
post Jul 7 2010, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(stringfellow @ Jul 7 2010, 12:13 PM)
I still say it's just a Placebo effect. People just want to reassure themselves that they are somewhat confident to get a defect-free product on later batches. Tell that to a couple of folks here who are on their third iPhone units who are both early adopters and latecomers.

Point is, there are no quantifiable statistics that confirms that buying a product later in its lifecycle assures itself of defects. On the contrary, those who waited,  would have the "buyer's remorse" syndrome creeping it, as their units are now somewhere later in the product cycle that a new product revision is looming in the horizon. The early adopters gets their full year usage to get that "bang for the buck" feel for using it for that long and won't feel much of a regretful tinge to upgrade for the next cycle, compared to those who had just bought their iPhones less than 6 months and found out that their "less than 6 months" iPhones are about to become obsolete (relatively).

With every product, early adopters took their chances. It is how you play your hands with Fate that determines if you're willing to continue being an early adopter, or learnt your lessons and "stay on the fence" longer.I am thankful that all my early adopter launch units are working fine as it is, so I could not say I've felt cheated or remorsed by defective first launch units. Others may have more harrowing stories to share here than me, I consider myself very lucky.

Disclaimer: That "less than 6 months" period is my own intepretations of how one would feel a tinge of regret when news of product refresh is coming their way, based on my own personal opinion. Others may feel not compelled at all to upgrade, or feel it is perfectly fine to upgrade even if they just own the currently-about-to-be-upgraded product for that short a period of time.

EDIT: To the post above this post, if you've nothing worthwhile to say, don't post anything, or worse, trollbaiting. Kopitiam-style posting stays in that filthy place only please. Post reported.
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Agreed and a pleasant discussion icon_rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(beavis68 @ Jul 7 2010, 12:13 PM)
did i say that?

i just tired of this....... what will make u think 2nd batch is different from 1st batch? SoS? Proved? dun just use baseless text and misled other.

take an example of maxis 3GS......... maxis stock should be in later than 2nd batch, and yet y alot of problem still persist?sunken home button, can't turn on, and many more.
this is totally base on luck.

your assumption of batches is baseless........ show us proved that stated that the coming batches is improved and better than 1st batch.

i'm here not to argue, just i dun want to misled other ppl.
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If you tired take a break and keep your cool. I am just here to have a constructive discussion not argument thumbup.gif

It is pretty common sense that if there is a known common problem with a product, will the company continue producing the same product with the same problem occurring without trying to fix the problem?

I am sure a big company has it own management theory if not it would have gone bust long time ago. You want prove google "six sigma" read wiki. There are many similir theories however I don't know which is used in Apple.

I would like to address the same question back to you show us prove that 2nd batch of iphone 3gs a lot of problem still persist.

This post has been edited by ck_yoong: Jul 7 2010, 12:46 PM
ck_yoong
post Jul 12 2010, 01:19 AM

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QUOTE(kerollowyat @ Jul 11 2010, 10:56 PM)
Haha.. Sorry to bring you up.
I'm kinda hope that we can discuss whatever thing related to iPhone, regardless the goods or the bads. So we all gain the benefits.
People might get scared to share their bad experience.  tongue.gif
That's what I think.

Anyway stringfellow, that "hot" was not meant directly to you. My apologies as well.
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I agree with you I also feel that people with problem are getting afraid to post it up. I observe it by people apologizing just after posting about the antenna issue even though there is nothing worth to apologize about.

I think for now many malaysians are not on the "you go first la" attitude because the Iphone 4 has not even reached to our shores yet and the only way to get a hand on it is to go kilometers away (plus I think it is out of stock too) or buy it in malaysia for a high price which is not affordable. Once Maxis or Digi or Singapore launches it, I am sure many Malaysians will buy it and then discussions in this thread will become more open with more participants personal experiences.

The antenna issue comes up often (if 4 times is considered often) because people are curious in nature and like to get more reviews that may be brought forward by other current Iphone 4 users. Sadly in this thread there are only few people with an Iphone 4 (I think my 10 fingers can count all).

For those who wants to ask the antenna issue again, please read the first post for those reviews by the participants of these thread and just monitor the thread for new reviews to come in once Iphone 4 hits our shores or new owners turn up.


ck_yoong
post Jul 13 2010, 09:32 PM

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Actually why is everybody so worked up about people sitting and wait for problem to go by and people keep saying haha I don't care I am going to use it first 1 year earlier than all of you all I enjoy it so much. Then say who wants to wait then just wait in a sarcastic manner.

The Iphone 4 has not even reach our shores or close to our shores of course people in Malaysia is still going to sit around waiting and asking questions.

ck_yoong
post Jul 17 2010, 01:34 AM

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Good job apple giving a free case..
ck_yoong
post Jul 17 2010, 01:49 AM

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All three of them look so down being bombarded.
ck_yoong
post Jul 17 2010, 02:03 AM

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QUOTE(wahkiz @ Jul 17 2010, 01:49 AM)
elainor, if you don't have the product, please don't comment on it. You are just making a fool of yourself.
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Hello this is a open forum not a forum where people who own it can only comment. I am not sure who is making a fool of themself..
ck_yoong
post Jul 17 2010, 02:11 AM

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@ Please don't make a fool out of yourself more. Non constructive discussion with you ended.
ck_yoong
post Jul 17 2010, 02:19 AM

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QUOTE(ruztynail @ Jul 17 2010, 02:17 AM)
doesnt matter. we're still free and open to give our opinion and suggestion..

for eg. we dont need to own a "proton" to know its inferior to the other european made cars right?
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Agree with you. Plus owning a product does not mean your comment is fully true and fair.

This post has been edited by ck_yoong: Jul 17 2010, 02:19 AM
ck_yoong
post Jul 17 2010, 02:29 AM

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One question popped up in my mind. Are we going to get the same treatment such as a full refund when unsatisfied with the iphone 4 in Malaysia..?

Seldom seen that policy around in Malaysia.
ck_yoong
post Jul 17 2010, 11:38 PM

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Very interesting videos apple posted here http://www.apple.com/antenna/

Death grip on other phones even the 3gs surprising.
ck_yoong
post Jul 20 2010, 01:27 PM

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Invisible shield helps to prevent the antenna issue yay plus can keep the Iphone 4 sexiness.
ck_yoong
post Jul 20 2010, 03:10 PM

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QUOTE(chizzu @ Jul 20 2010, 02:57 PM)
i have invisible shield full protection and still experiencing signal lost issue
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Hmm that is weird because even using a cheapo sticky tape did the job. Did you apply the full body coverage including the side bands..?

ck_yoong
post Jul 24 2010, 02:57 AM

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QUOTE(g3n0c|d3 @ Jul 23 2010, 11:36 PM)
Im kinda disappointed that white iphone is delayed till end of this year
Apple PR source
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Aww man I am also disappointed, I want a white iphone. Anyway already wait so long might as well wait a bit longer. Or maybe just join the dark side icon_idea.gif
ck_yoong
post Jul 27 2010, 04:24 PM

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Singapore saved the day now it is nice to see reasonable Iphone 4 prices.

Those UK set and US ko time XD
ck_yoong
post Jul 27 2010, 04:31 PM

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Singapore any news about the free casing or bumper..?

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