when i reno my house few months ago, i made the decision to install the more expensive Inverter type air cond units (Daikin) for 2 rooms (1hp) and living hall (1.5hp) with the idea that it will help save my electricity bill in the long run.

so far, the last 3 months i've actually moved in and started paying TNB bills, i realize, something must be wrong cos i'm paying quite an expensive bill.

the first time the bill came, it was on the high side, but i thought i didn't made any payments for the couple of months of reno works, and it was like CNY that time, loads of friends came for visit, the lights, A/C and everything was turned on constantly...i bare with it.

second time the bill came, still on the high side...again i tot maybe i didn't practice enough energy saving measures..and i begin to monitor my daily usage, i begin to switched my electrical appliances off (not leave it on standby) when i'm not using and try not to switch on those non-energy saving lights (florescent lights) when not necessary. i paid the bill.

'before anyone start shooting me saying switching off those electrical appliances like TV & Astro doesn't help conserve alot of energy, hear me out, cos i was watching one of those discovery/learning channels on Astro and apparently, they makes up to like 10% of your total bill, so i begun to do that, i'm not exactly sure if that's the case ok?'

this time, the bill came and amazingly, this bill is even higher than the first two months!!i'm absolutely dumbfounded. for a period of 31 days, total unit used was 803KWH! total bill came to RM260.45

now, i'm living in an apartment <1000sq ft. me and my wife. my baby kid (1.5yrs old)comes by to stay with us from Friday-Sunday evening. he sleeps with us in the same room. my appliances includes:

1) Home Entertainment system
2) Fridge (LG side-by-side)
3) Microwave
4) Cooker Hood
5) Oven
6) A/C (2 x 1hp & 1 x 1.5hp Inverter type)
7) Water Pump x 1
8) Water Heater x 2 (storage type not instant type)
9) Bathroom Exhaust Fan x 1
10) Alarm

both me & the wife works normal hours..so nothing is switched on during the day. only from 6-7pm onwards.

of all the appliances above (pretty much all) i can only think of Fridge & Alarm system which is ON 24x7.

i only switch on water pump & 1 water heater 90% of the time and not for long, maybe a couple of hours per day.

i spent about 3-4 hours a day (weekdays) watching TV.

we switch on 1 A/C at any time. if we're in living hall, then the hall A/C will be switched on. when we're going to sleep, hall A/C Off, and Room (1 room) A/C switched on for the entire night which is roughly 8hours. so in total, the A/C will be switched on about 12 hours aday. the other 1hp A/C was never switched on.

i'm not entirely sure what is the normal electricity usage per household? cos i spoke to a few colleague of mine and all of them were actually quite shock at my high electricity bill. one guy with a retired mom at home who watches tv 24x7 pays less than RM150 per month.

for a comparison, my bill is almost the same as my parents' in law double storey house. and they both not working so at home day & night with a 2hp non-inverter living hall A/C at full blast during the day and 1 x 1hp non-inverter room A/C switched on during the night when they sleep. they have 2 fridge running 24x7. major difference is they dun have cooking hood & oven and their electrical supply is 1-phase, while mine is 3-phase, 63A.

how much (in terms of KWH) will the A/C consume (per hour or per day)? inverter vs non-inverter type?

what about the fridge? how much does it consumed?

i'm beginning to have a wild suspicion that perhaps some of my neighbors are tapping into my electrical cables... the A/C & the Fridge is what is suspect to be consuming most of the electricity. plus the occasional water pump & heater. but the thing is, the A/C is supposed to be energy saving type...how come still used up so much power?

i just did another check on the meter today, from the time the last reading was recorded till today, 15 days in total, i've used something like 372KWH, which is about 25KWH per day!!

i just need to know if this is normal? the first thing i'm gonna do when i reach my apartment after work today is to check the meter again. compare it with the reading i took down this morning. see if there's a huge jump. then i will try to check the reading again tomorrow morning.

btw, no need to suggest me those energy-saver devices...those are full of crap...

Switch off everything and switch off your breaker. See the meter still running or not.

Complain to TNB to have a look or change the meter.

good idea...
at least u can be sure that whether ur neighbour is stealing ur current...

but i understood, the inverter will only save a significant amount of current if it was on for a long period... as in 10 hours or more....

if not, the elec usage is almost the same with the normal one..

i've thought about doing that, only thing is it means my fridge & alarm will be out of power

alarm i'm not so worried...only thing is the fridge.

if i go to TNB with this complaint they will layan?? seems quite far fetch they will actually send a team to investigate given the fact they quite happily accepting my payments.

thanks for the suggestion anyhows...i will check the meter once reach home later. see if there's a significant rise.

Some suggestions which may help:

1. Set your target temperature of AC to 24-26 degree, then your AC should run at partial-load if your room is not too big. The inverter type AC is doing more saving than conventional type during partial load condition; if you set 18-20 every time you turn on, you must as well just use the conventional type as inverter AC will run at max load when it cannot meet the setting temperature.

2. Side by side fridge (280L -350L) is too big for a small family, I suggest you change to a smaller one. Fridge run 24/7, and our country does not implement energy labeling standard, so the one you have could be those low energy efficient type fridge that cannot be sold in advance country. Most fridge use its metal body to do heat exchange, cold inside so heat must be thrown outside; so do not cover up your fridge with plastic cover and make sure some room around the fridge.

3. Unplug all the electrical appliances when they are not in use because standby mode also consume power. Most electrical appliances consume few W to few tens of W, if add all up, could be 100+ W all day just on standby, add those up in a month, you will see the difference. In EU, very strick standby power is being implemented now; of cause, those who fails to enter EU will be sold in Malaysia.

4. Is your apartment located on commercial land? If so, you are charge using commercial rate for your electric bill, so it is naturally higher. Nothing to complain.

5. Electric kettle, washing machine, microwave, oven and water heater consume A LOT of POWER when operating, you should ask yourself how often you use them and how you use them each time. Those electric thermos also "eat electricity" if you have a >5L one.

6. How about your lights? what type? did you turn on lights during night time?

You can't save electric bill by just buying inverter air-cond or energy efficient appliances; you need to have energy saving concious and maintain a good habit to start to see some results.

My 2 cents worth of advice. Good luck.

Why you need 3-phase supply for a condo/apartment? :roll:

Hijacking this thread for a bit as it is a bit similar. Has anyone tried using the power saving induction cookers instead of conventional gas stoves? They're the type that feels cool to the touch because they create heat in the cooking vessels directly through magnetic induction. The promoters keep saying they save money so I'm curious if anyone has tried them.

thanks for your input & comments..really useful tips...yes my A/C is at 18deg most of the time that's cos i feel hot all the time i too was wondering if switching the A/C on at 18deg cud cos the inverter thingy no operating as it should. i shall try to practice the habit of going 24deg from now on

the side-by-side fridge, yes i do admit is big. but not too big. even tho it takes up more space than i wanted, i've always wanted a side-by-side. and my wife absolutely love the design. so nothing i can do about changing it. and i do believe its not one of those energy efficient type fridge. especially now that you mentioned non-energy eff fridge cant be sold to countries under EU..cos i couldn't even find the fridge i have in the LG website.
but the again, there's nothing i can do about the fridge.

like i mentioned, i've begun to switched all applicances (with exception of fridge & alarm) off when not using since last month.

just ran a check on TNB website..my charges are based on Domestic tariffs.

i have various types of lightings. down lights with energy saving bulbs, florescent lights, spot lights and those hanging and ceiling mounted light fixtures. most with energy saving bulbs, not all. most of the time, i only switch on the down lights. spot lights almost never switched on. and i only switched on the lights when someone's there. if there's no one in the kitchen, i dun switched the on.

i like being in the dark. especially when i watch tv at night. light switched on during the night is quite minimal i would say.

shud i be switching off the electric thermos during the day? that is another appliances' switched 24x7. and mine is 5l if not mistaken. maybe i will switched them off from now on when not using. microwave & oven is rarely used. but when oven is used, its usually for 1-2 hours.

my wife need to sleep with a night light. so we switched on the bathroom light but kept the door close. i think that is not very energy efficient. do you feel if i use those plug in to socket outlet type night light will conserve more energy than switching on the bathroom ceiling light (energy saving bulb)??


for your info, i didn't get to choose what type of electrical supply i want. i don't think anyone get to choose when u buy property. you can upgrade from 1-phase to 3-phase with proper application. but not sure if you can downgrade.

it comes like that. what can i do?

the power consumption also may effect by where u located your a/c compressor... if located at closed area without good air circulation, definitely compressor unit will operate longer than usual... if hot air trapped in closed area, definitely compressor unit suck the hot air back into the unit, the cooling efficiency wont be good enough... if u went to phileo damansara before and have a look at their a/c compartment area, u can see some exhaust ducting installed there, it purposely to lead hot air direct to environment and avoid hot air trapped in the closed area...

Share my experience.
Before normal aircon. On at nite only, ~10hrs per day. TNB bill is rmXXX.
After change to inverter aircon + 3-phase supply. Aircon on ~20hrs per day. TNB bill still rmXXX.
I believe the 3-phase also helps. Using Panasonic inverter aircon, temp at 22-23degC. Terrace hse.
R u sure ur aircon is inverter? checked n confirmed urself?
After we replaced our 8yr old fridge w new one (non-inverter), TNB bill also drop by ~15%.
Plan to buy inverter only for all future appliances like fridge, washing machine, aircon, etc...

it also depend your equipment's technology and wear & tear...
u cant compare with air con which c/w 10 years old technology versus with current air con technology...
for sure even non-inverter air con will save more power too compare to air con which 10 years old technology

hence, inverter will bring more benefits to those appliances which running non-stop or very long usage per day
cant imagine how water heater system can implement inverter into, unless bath more than hours...

anyway, ur XXX can be 100-999

This post has been edited by gkl83: May 12 2010, 05:16 PM

my personal view for better result of using inverter, it means u only save energy if u open the aircon for more than 8 hours...if you notice normal aircon, after some time, it will kick start the aircon to more power, i think inverter tech is to control that...

if you using aircon for few hours per day, inverter or not doesnt help you and if you alwayz on off the aircon, the bill is higher due to when u start the aircon, it consumes alot of power...

correct me if im wrong...

TNB charge different rate if your total usage < / > 400kWh.

so, becareful.
you use more when you thought you got inverter for less, end up you paying more

if that's the case, you paying RM100 for 10hrs a/c use per day previously, now you paying RM50 for same period with Inverter a/c? that's 50% saving!!

so means i need to switch the A/C on for long hours then only will make use of inverter tech? jialat la like that...reach home from work must immediately switch on A/C til the next morning??

gov subsidy more if your usage is <400KWH per month. they sub less if usage >400KWH

and that's actually my goal...total usage about 500KWH per month. seems far fetch considering it was 800KWH on the last bill

u misunderstood about inverter... doesnt means switch on longer and save more...

example:
non inverter : 8 hours - cost RM100
non inverter : 24 hours - cost RM300
Note: 24 hrs are the 3X of 8hrs

inverter : 8 hours - cost u RM90
inverter : 24 hours - cost u RM240
Note: 24 hrs will be lesser than 3X of 8hrs

This post has been edited by gkl83: May 12 2010, 06:16 PM

well, another effect of using inverter aircons are new refrigerant requirement - R410A instead of R22 which is being phased out. more environment/ozone friendly. this doesn't apply to current models of daikin inverter being sold in MY though...

Alarm have a backup battery when power is cut off. It can last for at least 2days.

Fridge when power cut off can last at least 8hr. Provided you don't open the fridge door and the seal is still good. Empty most of your food before do that too will help.

TNB will layan you if you have proof to show them your meter have problem.

I think my usage is about the same as yours except no alarm system.
My laptop with power switch on is around 4-5 hrs a day.
My aircond 1hp Panasonic inverter is on 8 hrs (sleeping time).
TV is also around 3-4 hrs a day.

This is the most consuming electrical appliance besides the fridge which is obviously 24 hrs.

The highest I get is only aroun RM100, that's when I got 2 aircond on for 8 hrs at night (parents visiting), and most lighting on.

My normal electric bill is only around RM70-RM80.

What is your rate? Sometimes condo or apartment is more expensive.
Mine is:
First 200 unit - 0.218
Then it's 0.334
Never reached the next tier, so don't know what's the rate.

The highest rate I reached is 359kwh which the bill like I mentioned above - RM96.71

Also, look at the "Jenis Bacaan" whether or not it's "N". If it's not, tele your bill's meter against actual reading see whether or not the same. If not, then complain to TNB to ask them to come and do actual reading.

This post has been edited by b00n: May 12 2010, 09:39 PM

You have many power sucker applicant. Buy your applicant according need and not bigger than you need. Check the watt usage and the star saving energy.

2) Fridge (LG side-by-side) --> Fridge suck power the most in your house. Don't set the temp max. Either medium or low if food not that much.
4) Cooker Hood ---> don't on all the way. The blower motor is high power and suck power alot.
6) A/C (2 x 1hp & 1 x 1.5hp Inverter type) --> set the temp 25c and set everything to auto. Trust me, you save a lot.
7) Water Pump x 1 --> What the hell you need a water pump in apartment. Ii is a power sucker machine.
8) Water Heater x 2 (storage type not instant type) --> You only have 2 person. Why need storage type? Imagine you need boil the water more than you need. ain't it waste? And if you keep on whole day, it will boil again if temp drop.
9) Bathroom Exhaust Fan x 1 --> power sucker too.

Eh my airond is always at 22c.
Forgot to mention I got a LG washing + dryer combo and roughly around 2 times per week which usually took 3 hrs to complete the cycle. Still the electricity didn't go up that high.

I still don't think TS's usaged would be that high.

Maybe like what ozak mentioned; the bolier heater could be the main culprit. The rest I think is normal.

i cant believe bill to be RM100 or so...i originally tot that would be the case, but now, i'm paying more than RM250 per month for the past 3 months.

just to justify:

Fridge - i've set it to the lowest temp since i started using it. i cook almost on daily basis (breakfast & dinner) so the size is just about right for my stuffs.

Cooker Hood - only switched on when cooking..if not cooking will immediately switch it off cos its damn noisy

A/C - since last night, i set it at 24c & fan speed no.3. previously 18c at fan speed 5, pretty much the max...i will continue to maintain it at 24c from now on

water pump - i need a water pump becos i have a crazy big size shower rose. its 350mm x 350mm. without the water pump, cant really feel the effect of rain shower. that's why i need a water pump. the water pump has a device which will switch off when no water passes thru it. besides, i switch off the main switch after i use them.

water heater (storage tank type) - 2 or 4 or 8 person nothing to do with having storage tank or not. the main idea of getting a storage tank is becos i can conceal the tank above the plaster ceiling. my bathroom is about 38 sq ft. the actual shower area is 3x3 ft. if i were to use those instant water heater type means
i will have a huge enclosure inside the 3x3ft area not to mentioned those hose running from here to there.
i wont be able to use shower rose but have to live with the stock handheld shower head that comes with the water heater.

besides, having the water heater & all pipings concealed means i have a more surface area. and the entire bathroom looks cleaner, and bigger.

again, as i mentioned, the water heater is SWITCHED OFF whenever we're done with the shower. it's never kept switched on more than couple of hours a day. i know all about the high electricity consumption of the water heater, and i do think logically, the heater will try to maintain the temp so it will keep boiling. so i make it a point to switched it ON only when we need to take a shower & switched it OFF immediately after use.

btw, the 'tank' is only 35liter. just about enough for 2 person. its the 2nd smallest tank capacity in the range.

bathroom exhaust fan - this is only installed in Bathroom 2 which is not used 90% of the time. the only time it is used is when my baby kid is around and its probably switched on 30mins per day for 3 days a week.


now, just to highlight & update, i did a check immediately after i reach home from work yesterday. i left home for work at about 12pm yesterday, and reached home at 7pm. between then, no one was at home and nothing was switched on except for:

Fridge
Alarm
thermos water kettle

and the usage? 1KWH in 7hours. this kinda make me think that the fridge is not so bad after all.

last night was a pretty normal night for both of us, the usual cooking (1.5 hr of oven & hood), clothes washing, TV and A/C usage with the exception we were out for a movie between 830pm to 1130pm. this morning, when i left for work at about 11am, the total usage was 14KWH.

if this is my average usage, the meter should be reading less than 500KWH per month. so i honestly, don't know where the extra 300KWH is from.

i will check the meter again after work later. and then check again the next morning. and will monitor the usage over the weekends. the high usage could be from the weekends.

This post has been edited by daryl.k: May 13 2010, 12:46 PM

Laptop - 3h
Desktop 1 - 3h
Desktop 2 - 24h
Desktop 3 - 12h
Aircond 1HP Non Inverter 18C - 10h
Fridge - 24h
Stand fan 1 & 2 - 12h
Stand fan 3 - 24h
Washing Machine - around 2h each wash, 7 times a week.
Water Heater - around 1/2h each wash, 56 times a week.
Iron - around 1/2h each iron, 6 times a week.



These have long usage time and high power consumption i assume.
Highest i paid around 190, average use is around 120-150.

wow...ur house like cybercafe...so many desktops....

but the thing is, ur running 1 non-inverter a/c at 18C for 10h per day...and yet, paying RM150 average...

if i substitute your desktops with rest of my appliances, shud be around the same...i wash clothes everyday, 1 wash per day, each wash is about 2+hrs...i iron probably 2-3 times a week for a couple of hours each time...

which puzzles me even more now...why are my bills so high while others with similar usage is on average...

eerrrrr...just to double confirm, none of yous with low electricity bills...u know...'messed' with the meter right?? cos i was recommended to do so but i did not take up the option...

I guess your purpose for the heater tank and the pump is to have a rain shower type instal. The invent of rain shower type is for saving water. But not in your case I guess.

Boiling a 35l of water is alot for 2person. You not use whole hot boiling water to bath but instead mix with cold water. How many liter of water you are using for bath? I use not more than 8liter of water for bath.

Anyway here is my example of usage:

1)A/C 1.5hp inverter --> Average 8hr with 25c and everything in auto to activate the inverter saving.
2)Combo washing machine 3000W --> 5x washing per month
3)Instant water heater with pump 3200W --> Average 10min-15min/person x2person = 30min with set at 1000W-1200W.
3)Induction cooker 1600W --> Average 30min usage everyday
4)Microwave 1000W--> Hardly
5)Mid size 12yrs old 2door fridge --> Mid setting.
6)TV&HT 200W--> Average 6hr/day
7)Server & modemrouter 70W--> 24hr whole yrs ON.
8)Laptop 90W--> 8hr min.
9)lighting--> 90% is energy saving. Std on hr everyday. Only car porch on 12hr everyday.
10)ceiling fan--> 10hr average

TNB bill usage average RM65 - RM75.

My main power sucker is old fridge, A/C and induction cooker.

This post has been edited by ozak: May 13 2010, 01:40 PM

i dont agree with you on no2

we have implement energy efficiency (EE) on fridge with star labelling

here my fridge








info




source: http://www.st.gov.my/index.php?option=com_...333&Itemid=1238

Water heater take a lot power. Typically, 1KW-1.5KW at least and above
So switch on half an hour per day, already cost you roughly 30 cents or we take 1.5KWH
1.5 x 30 days already cost you 45 KWH
If there are 2 unit, 90 KWH gone which translate about Rm35-40.

Oven also another one that power hungry, those generate heat a lot one generally is power hungry equipment.

Please do not buy inverter a/c if you are going to set the temp at 18C and room size is relative large.

An underpower A/C will consume a lot of electricity as well, because the comressor is running non-stop at all, which in this kind of situation, inverter or non-inverter make no difference.

Can you focus clearly the second pic? I want to read your fridge power consump. My old fridge is same size as you and I intend to change my old fridge. It suck alot of power.

IF you are feeling hot when AC is set to 18 degree, meaning you have a undersized AC installed. 24 degree is the most comfortable level for human being, if the AC is undersized, setting 18 degree does not mean the room temperature will get to 18.

There are many inverter myth in the forum that I think some people are being misled by AC salesman and advertisement. Inverter air-cond operates all the time when turn on, its operating frequency (compressor motor rotation) range from 15Hz to 85Hz for cooling condition. Conventional AC runs at fixed frequency decided by the grid which in Malaysia is 50Hz, US/canada is 60Hz. Compressor is off when the room temeprature reach the target frequency and on again when temperature rise 1 degree above target temperature.

For inverter type, if you set your target temperature at 24 degree, first it will check the room temperature compare to the target temperature, let say room at enviroment temperature is 30 degree, so difference is 6 degree. The the AC will run at high frequency to cool the room, when the room temeprature reach 24, the inverter AC will reduce the speed to a point it could maintain the 24 degree target frequency. So depend on size of AC, wheather condition and room size, the actual speed that stay at 24 degree varies. If you choose the right AC HP for the right room size, normally the AC will run between 15 to 40 Hz at night time and 40-60 at day time. The energy saving comes when the AC is operating lower than 50Hz compare to conventional type, less speed means less power. If you set 18 degree all the time, the difference of enviroment and target is 12 degree, so the AC will run at max speed to cool it down, if the room temperature only cool down to 24 degree at full speed, the AC will keep running at max speed in order to reach 18, so in this case, it is running at 85 Hz all day. There is no energy saving at 85Hz, in fact you waste more energy because conventional AC at full speed all day only running at 50Hz.

So you need to be very careful when buying inverter products including fridge and AC. Inverter AC does save 50% energy (as advertised) if you set target frequency at 24 degree running at night time when enviroment temperature is 26 degree but if you run at full speed all day, it costs you more.

Set the temperature setting of fridge depend on the amount of food you store inside the fridge, it saves energy. put it in a ventilated room also help the heat discharge of the fridge and hence reduce the load apply to the compressor.

For TV, LCD type should be more energy efficient than CRT type.

You don't have to switch off the thermos during day time, just change to a smaller size, enough for your family use is enough. Change to 3L thermos could have save you enough money to buy a new one for 1 year of power waste on a 5L one. If you turn off at day time, then at night you need to reboil again, boiling also sucks a lot of energy.

Leave lights on all night long means 8hrs a day, check the wattage of the bulb you use, normally night light 2-3W is enough.

529kwh PER YEAR

which mean about RM100 per year, sound funny yeahhh

but it true, i just set my fridge half power (medium), and before im went to office (about 7.15am), just looking at TNB meter, show 2234kwh and at the night when im come back, just checking at meter (9.00pm) show 2234kwh.... so for conclusion my frigde just consume not more than 1kw per day

Thanks. Your fridge is very power saving. Change my old fridge will help me save another few RM.

Good point. My mistake.

I am away from the country for almost 3 years, didn't know we did have energy labeling now. But I didn't notice it when I walked around Jusgo last time. Is it mandatory for all appliances or just for advertisement?

This post has been edited by KLsooner: May 13 2010, 02:57 PM

Not mandatory, but as an advertising point.

With electricity cost escalating, those being labelled "energy saving", "green" can make you more sales.

Even HDD with label "green" sell well, although the saving is actually negligible
Instead saying running at lower speed, label it as green when require lower power. <--- a nice marketing strategy.

I still believe you should check your meter against your bill and make sure that the bill "Jenis Bacaan" is "N".
If it's not "N", meaning they are not doing actual reading but estimation. I still don't believe that your bill would go up to RM250.

If the bill is indeed "N", check whether the rate is the same as I posted. Like I mentioned, the rate could be more expensive for Condo and apartment. (Pls correct me if I'm wrong)

Bathroom exhaust fan is power sucker ???

Cant believe this ...

Fan motor not really big watt. Unless, he leave it on for 24hrs

Exhaust fan generally are higher watt than those table fan. To suck air out fast, you need bigger watt motor.

Use your hand to feel it between two and you will know.

There must be a sticker or label on the exhaust fan. Look for a number beside W.

Are we talking about the right exhaust fan???

I'm thinking its refer to those ventilation fan which mounted on wall.
I just check with KDK's website, the one that I've bought for my kitchen usage, it just rated 34W.
34W is consider not a power sucker, rite?
LCD TV nowaday 100+ ~ 200 W.

Real power sucker are those approaching 1000w

nice read....its like everyone is in the middle of the an investigation

btw, do you have a vacuum cleaner?
n how many pc's/laptops are on in the whole house cause u didn't mention in ur list..

1.) AC for living area 1.5hp normally not enough, but it depend how big the area, facing north or south, window, etc. If size of AC not enough cover the tempeture of the area, compresor will fully run, use more electricity.

2.) The AC better setting 23deg or below, cause the lower tempeture setting the cold can be maintain, if setting above 23deg the air will warm more easy then the compresor will fully running againt to keep the tempeture u setting it. This is bcos last time my AC has problemn after using 1 year+, the tecnical guy told me.

http://www.st.gov.my/eest/eeguide/energysaving.htm

If I not mistaken, 25c is the optimun temp. And setting your temp too cold will make your aircon work harder. That not save your bill too.

You never read my post. Your technician is definately 100% wrong.

For conventional air cond, compressor on/off base on +/- 1 degree on top of setting temperature, meaning compressor will turn on when temperature rise 1 degree above setting temperature and off when temperature falls below 1 degree of setting temperature. so setting 25,26 or 23 is no difference. The only diference is for the initial turn on, setting 23 will take longer time to cool your room from 28-30 to 22 degree before it turn off. If your AC is undersize, it will never cool your room to 22, so it will be running forever. The only advantage you enjoy when setting 23 is after you turn off the AC, you still feel cool a little longer compare to setting to 25/26 degree. Heat transfer is largely depend on the medium of transfer but not degree of temperature.

For inverter type, the compressor never stop after turn on, the operating speed of compressor varies according to the setting temperature. If setting temperature to 23, the AC will drive the compressor to 23 degree and stay at the speed to maintain the temperature. Then the energy consumed depend on the actual speed of the compressor to maintain 23 degree, it could be a much higher speed compare to conventional type so end up addition consumption of electricity. As I said b4, conventional compressor running at fix speed of 50Hz from the grid whicle Inverter type running from 15Hz to 90Hz depends on " load". Eventhough at 50Hz, Inverter compressor is more efficient than conventional type due to the Compressor motor (Inverter using DC brushless motor has higher effiecientcy) but running over 70 Hz is definately taking more energy.

Do not believe anything AC technician tells you except about installation and maintenance, they are just the expert of installation, other than that they know close to nothing.

Did you ever ask what is the problem of your AC? Is it mechanical or electrical problem? I can tell you 99% of problems are gas leak (bad welding) and electronics controller (PCBA, motor, remote...etc) problems. You hardly find compressor problem, even there is, it can be caused by installation problem like under charge of gas or air/water trap inside the copper tube.

This post has been edited by KLsooner: Jul 15 2010, 10:56 AM

I LOL'ed at number 2. You actually beleive that crap?

Whether you save or not depends A LOT on your temperature setting and the air cond HP. If you put too low, the compressor is at full power all the time/most of the time, which means there is NO benefit from an inverter.

That is why I recommend only inverter if you put 25c/26c and you use it in a smaller room. Living room and all won't benefit from inverter.

Yeah. The shop owner I go to for electronic recommends inverter for bedrooms but suggest non-inverter for living room.

See whether this black box thing is working efficiently......Due to its inefficiency, I replaced it due a small fire broke up and my electricity bill increased for a few months before I asked TNB to replace it with a new one.

Pic...

You have overheat wire connection there. Maybe due to loose connection or contact no good. You are using quite high amp.

Bro,
That means your dobi shop is consuming a lot of power already... Time to upgrade to 3-phase. You can then upgrade your washing machine to those using 3-phase motor.. more efficient

This post has been edited by wideawake: Jul 15 2010, 01:41 PM

To be more precise, how much you can save is depending on the "temperature difference" between outside and inside.

Setting to 23 degree use more electricity? same temperature setting but turn on the air cond at noon and midnight, there is a huge different. you will see air cond use more power at noon than in midnight, albeit it is set to 23 degree.

My friend is an electrical engineer. What he does is he use a meter to calibrate the temperature. He told me every aircond has a most economic temperature, what he does is he put in the meter then plug the aircond switch into the meter, then he slowly adjust the aircond until the desire power consumption. E.g. 250KWH. His panasonic inverter is at around 25'C. 250KWH * 8 hrs = 2 unit of electric per day = 60 unit per month. His approach is more scientific. When he put the aircond to lower C. It is amazing to find out the power consumption has almost doubled and reaching 400 KWH. I also get a similar meter to measure my LCD TV. When it is at the brightest, it consumes 200KWH, when i lower the brightness to 75%, it only consumes 120KWH. I've tested almost all the equipment in the house. The most consume electric device is fridge. The more time you open the door, the more time the motor kick off and cool the fridge. My fridge is 306L net one and consuming about 200-300KWH when the motor kick off. Boiling water another evil, it is taking 1000KWH to my surprise. Cook rice/put in warm also another evil, 500KWH. Fan is the most stupid one. No matter what speed you set, you consume the same power. So turn your fan to max to gain the maximum benefit.

i am very sorry - this approach makes no sense whatsoever for aircon. if you are talking about an inverter unit, then you must understand that the aircon can run at different consumption levels (in contrast to full power/off for old style). the usage of the inverter aircon is not in any way related to the temperature setting (unless you put an impossible to reach temp, then its always full power). the power will adjust according to what is needed to maintain the set temp level. so the better your place is insulated the less energy will be used to maintain ANY given reachable temperature. there is no "sweet spot" per se.

his proof is bogus too: if you put lower temp, then of course the a/c notices ambient temp is too high and it needs to work more (ie use more power) to reach the new target. put your AC to 29 and you will see it uses even less power.

PJusa,

set at 29?

ppl will tell you might as well no need to on the a/c

which is why i said it will use even less power

heard that Daikin inverter air-con do not require special piping ?

boiler heater min 5kw

if 5000w, the load will burn your house wiring easily which about 20+amp load...
but our standard house wiring & ELCB usually can sustain 15+amp maximum for short tem...

for safety reasons, check equipments' power consumption before use...
recommended not more than 2500watt with standard wiring...

so for those residents planned to use high HP air con, recommended install thicker wiring and ELCB support high amp...

This post has been edited by gkl83: May 19 2011, 08:43 AM

yes.... inverter only save when wastage occurs... when usage is minium/stable, no saving will happen.... like fridge, when I open and close frequently, the comopressor will purge up and down to compensate the temparature variance.... so, wastage occours.. inverter happens just to regulate( big/smaller) instead of open and close...

example.. you have a glass that you want to fill with water.. but your tap can only either open till full or close.. you could not adjust say 10% 40% etc.. but 0% & 100%.... how you going to fill the glass with full water? imagine this... its about the same concept...

I also using inverter type Daikin.
Fridge on 24 hours, toshiba 480L. Use water heater once daily. No cooking, no microwave,
TV on 3 hours perday and PC about 5 hours daily.
Air con 8 hours daily, temp set 26 - 25.
Monthly cost about RM50 or less. Depends if my parents come over here or not.
Light, hall 2 florecent. Room 4 x 15w bulb energy saving type.

For high elec, I think heater might contribute a bit, also depends how long u spend on the bath room with the heater is on. Electrical water boiler, eletrical stove,,,, anything u can notice high watt is consider high electrical usage.

The best is as one our forumer mention using some meter amp to test the power consumption.

Awakened_Angel,

"when usage is minium/stable,no saving will happen" is not really true. an inverter runs at higher efficiency levels (higher EER) on low load situations. i.e. if your inverter runs on low load it will outperform a regular aircon at all times. some dont hit the good EER on full load (most dont actually) and are best at at par with regular units. the key is that you need to use the inverter a/c on below full load situations. then you will permanently save for the entire duration you cool your room. so when usage is minimum is actually when savings happen.

its all about how is the EER at the current load. regular A/C is different its either fully on or totally off so the EER is always stable but EER can be better with inverter A/C

Yes... I mean what I said. I used to be product engineer in hvac r n d

---

Added on May 19, 2011, 9:02 pmEER is just for marketing

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: May 19 2011, 09:02 PM

EER is a good indicatior for the electricity required to produce the same amount of cooling i'd say. but good that we are on the same page anyway

Hi, do you mean that if i buy a oversize hp for living room will be better to buy a smaller size INVERTER air cond? Sorry if i am asking stupid question here.

This post has been edited by andyykk: Jun 3 2011, 08:51 PM

nope but you should not(!) buy an undersize inverter cause inverter will save significantly only in below max load conditions. so if you're inverter is running all the time on full load it doesnt make sense to have one.

it is indeed.. but it is not whole of the story.. but part of it...which manuacturer never told the whole story... it all depends on your application in the end

how big is your living room + dinner hall? inverter usually not for living room

how bout Inverter 15Hp for a living room of 308 sqft ? sufficient or should i get 2Hp ? average use on weekdays should be 4 hours, weekend might be around 8 - 10 hours...

so Inverter or non Inverter ?

1.5 or 2 HP ?

I'm also planning to install water pump and heater tank (7L) <-- if not mistaken the size since i wanted a rain shower feel, mine is a double story landed anyone can confirm if i only boil when use around 30min per day would it be like crazy eletric sucker ???

worry worry

for 308 sqf, 1.5HP is enough.

It depends how you use the air-cond, if constantly set at 18C, inverter or not inverter make little difference.
But for daily >4 hours use, inverter can be the choice, consider that electricity bill become more expensive nowadays.

That means for my condition Inverter 1.5Hp is the wise choice right ? how bout the heater tank and water pump ? i wan rainshower at my house

Inverter only saves electricity when it's partially turn on, which means full blast. If it's in full blast, it does not save electricity. Rain water shower needs high pressure, maybe around 1.5 bar onwards. Make sure ur mixer can take the pressure. Check ur water heater electricity consumption, ?? Kw/hr, den times 0.36cents. Never never judge air condition capacity by guessing. U can run a software analysis or by rule of thumb , 60btu/hr sqft would be usually sufficient but depends on direction and glass quartet too.