Referred to the allegation that 90% of BH in Selangor towns must shift out after 5 years, someone is not telling the truth, either Ronnie, Selangor BN Association or the reporter's error false reporting.

1. Ronie Liu refuted that these were proposed (by Selangor Gomen) and suggested voluntarily by the association itself. Similar to giving a bullet to a robber and tell the robber, shoot me pls.

2. Mr Koay, the President of the Selangor Bird’s Nest Merchant association had alleged that the Association could not agree and accept that the shop house type Bird Houses in town must move out after 5 years.

So who is the smart alec that suggested 5 yrs grace period?!

Ronnie, Mr Koay or Mr Reporter?!

Sound similar to someone during GAPH seminar in Seremban suggested to close all window/DK and change to airwell type. Basically before even sit down and negotiate, find a solution or proposed method/regulation/procedures to solve typical problems, association already telling them, here is the bullet and gun, shoot me please!

When we go for negotiation table or meeting, both parties will arm with guns and bullets (problems & solutions). There are limits of how much you can give or take. You cannot go to negotiation table and straight away, strip naked. Bring out your guns and bullets and tell the other party, 'shoot me pls'! What happening here?!

Went to KT recently. Recee around in town for 3 hrs walkathon. Most of the bhs there are either window or DK type. Noticed sound level from almost all bhs were well managed. Not too hard or loud causing irritation to the public compare to some other places. Except some need probably touch up to improve aesthetic look to keep the outlook of the town. Either association doing good job or shop owners are almost all co-operative, understand the implication, all work together to keep the industry in town. Well done KT folks!

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Jun 17 2010, 12:40 PM

SUB system try to interconnecting the MAIN system about the ERROR system while MAIN system priortizing problem based on WAITLIST system . SUB system reinvent NEWORDER system to overide the MAIN system. Eventually, NEWORDER system will also face"DeJaVu" when MAIN system implant NEWSUBSYTEM to handshake NEWORDER SYSTEM.

the process go on and on until FUTURE HYBRID NETWORK replace the OLD MAIN SYSTEM that manifest all these NEWORDER SYSTEM.

We are the FUTURE HYBRID NETWORK.

the selangor bn association is not the one to recommend to the govt to ask farms to move after 5 years, it is the govt officers that recommend it!!!..i think ronnie kena tipu again by the officers....

i wonder malaysia is govern by cowboys is it?

each state each town seach street govern by each tai kow is it? now no one listening to the ruling govt already?

Hate to discuss the matter but then common sense tell me that Ronnie is either lying or kena tipu cos' there is no reason for a BH owner to recommend that the BHs @ town should move in 5 years time. Who represent the Selangor BH Association but the BH owners and do you truly believe that they will willing to move in 5 years time, sound stupid, right????????

If ever I meet this Ronnie guy, I must tell him to give a better excuse and that excuse sucked lah. How can a BH owner dig his own grave.....then he must be crazy.

Wish to say again, if we are to survive, we need to be united and under an Association and it has to be as Swiftlet Association and not the Chinese Chamber cos the ACCCIM will find very difficult to be 100% on own side as many of other traders are anti-BHs. So, you got no choice but to unite under the swiftlets Association and if the present team fail to deliver, held an EGM to change to a better team.

Again, as always above are my own opinion in the matter.

Read through ACCCIM meeting agenda and found that there is one issue that will be discuss by the ACCCIM is about swiftlet keeping licence.

i know that there are quite a few top leaders in ACCCIM and many of their members are established swiftlet keepers, they too have raised their concern in ACCCIM meeting and seeks help from the organisation to negotiate with the govt and to tell them the actual scenario of the impact of whatever decisions make in the industry.

unliked many anti swiftlet group who still think that this industry is mainly RICH buggers that buy properties in town and convert it into farms....but this only consisting of what...1o% of swiftlet keepers group? the remaining 90% are in fact local town residents that unable to feed their family and have to convert their top floor shop to keep swiftlets to earn extra income to feed their childrens!!.


thts the reason why i raised it up here about joining also the ACCCIM so that we can have more organisations to help to highlight to the govt.


about the ronnie guy, for sure he kena tipu!. as he is not invited to the meeting or even been inform to attend the meeting.and when he questioned the officers why this is recommended....for sure..officers who got hidden agenda will push it back to the association and saying that this is recommended by the association themselves!...most of the committee members there totally rely to their farms to survive!. so for sure this is not true!.

by the way, i hoped that they do have minutes of meeting that they can show to others that the recommendation is propose by the officers themselves...else....i think the association sure kena whack kau kau by farmers....

This post has been edited by ChanK: Jun 17 2010, 04:37 PM

I would not exclude the possibility that a swfitlet house owner made that recommendation as Hairy Kok did openly suggest that swiftlet houses could be relocated to agricultural districts.

Needs to work on facts, ie minutes of meetings etc. not hearsay.

WHO IS TELLING LIES?


I have scrutinized in details and read within the lines of the news report. In my personal opinion, there are three main issues here. First is Ronnie Liu denied point blank that the proposal to move out the BHs after 5 years is idea from the State Govt or the civil service. In fact, he is saying this proposal is suggested by the association itself voluntarily and that the State Govt is still not accepting the proposal. To me, it is also not logic for any really sincere and committed committee of an association to suggest so. But then the question comes in, whether the representatives of the association are sincere and committed without any hidden agenda? Such as political agenda or does any of them have any interest in project or business such as ECO-PARK etc that would benefit most if the BHs in towns are shut down? If this proposal was suggested by the civil servants and not the representatives of the association, why must Ronnie point the finger toward the association? He could have easily spoken the truth that this was proposed by the civil servants and the State Govt is not deciding yet. I don’t think the still pro BN Selangor civil servants are that obedient to the State Govt. No valid reason why he must tell lies? This also opens him for defamation charge.


Second is that the State Govt does not recognize the Selangor Bird’s Nest Merchant Association to be the sole representative for all the BH owners in Selangor. The Merchant Association can be one of the many voices from the industry. As such, Ronnie appealed openly to others with doubts or suggestions to call him personally. To me, this is direct open challenge to the association’s credibility now.


Thirdly, it seems certain representative of the Association has dishonestly and unethically capitalized the situation with hidden agenda by self-created some misleading negative issues or hoaxs such as the 5 years period and claiming the BH owners must register through the association within certain time frame to frighten the owners to join in as members. This also has given the false impression that they are the only exclusive agent that one must go through for the BH license. Mind you, any new coffee shop owner can also apply directly to the council for license without joining the Coffee Shop Association. But very unfortunately for the Merchant Association, the Exco YB Ronnie Liu does know and read Chinese and he didn’t want the State Govt or rather himself to be wronged or blamed for something untrue and thus he had no choice but to rebuke to expose through the press.


My analysis is that the PAKATAN RAKYAT GOVT is unlike BN Govt. The PR Govt does not like quota system, monopoly, making decision in black box or practise favours. They are very open in general. They are also not stupid to be misled by the LITTLE NAPOLEONs. They should know and do what is best and fair to all the people for they do not want to be only one term Govt. If Selangor is still under the BN esp the former Dr gigi MB by today, I think all the BHs in town are gone with owners committing suicides while the ECO-PARKs owners laughing all the ways to the banks.


I am wondering why is that the Selangor Bird’s Nest Merchants Association, after so many years in operation, has only a miserable handful of 300+ memberships out of a few thousands BHs. Why the rest are so stubborn still refuse to join them especially at this crucial and seems critical time? I do not join them; maybe I am stupid and blind or idiot. But, don’t tell me that the other few thousands are also like me? The 300+ are the smarter with perfect eyesight? Why the 90+ % don’t have confidence in the association? I think the credibility and sincerity of the leadership and those deemed controlling the association is in question. To me such association does not sound like a true membership association. It sounds more like a certain political party controlled private membership club with totally no transparency at all.


I do not think that those BH owners under the PR ruling such as Selangor, Penang, Kelantan and Kedah need to fear much of their respective State Govt over the BH issue. I think they should be more wary of the 1GP and the PERHILITAN AMENMENT ACTS of the BN, which are going to have real killing effect on this industry.

Time was lost Overtime in this country because of too many stupid around us. If the industry go on like that, everbody start to lose. Now else where are looking at global disaster waiting to wipe out crops and animal soon. What we are doing right now is full of shit trying to pick shit from king of shitter.

Association setup with no clear goal n purpose. It's like playing football for money and not passion. If got passion, just like Kung Fu , shared around the world already. By the time all problems iron out, Malaysia is now like Venice without land and greens after disaster, than no more bh on land.

We r so stupid.

the ruling govt is trying to find money to feed the population as our crude oil wells are drying up in next decade.

while we are very good in using nenek moyang money all this while...

when nenek moyang wang habis....where can we find more money to feed the population....or....i am sorry, my mistake.

not population but just civil servants in malaysia.

they need to find enough money to pay all the civil servants salaries...as

we have the highest population vs civil servants in asia..

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Added on June 18, 2010, 4:43 pmi guess someone need to come out and explain to the keepers....before fires spreading everywhere...

thts why...we need neutral leaders in associations just liked keepers, we are neutral as ph7..

u sokong i, i sokong u as long as u did the right thing for the rakyat.

This post has been edited by ChanK: Jun 18 2010, 04:43 PM

Ratio of civil servants vs total population in this country same as Greece.

Greece just gone bankrupt and now bagger in Europe bagging around like doggies in the hawker centres.

Are we learning something out of this? Or are we waiting to get knocked on the head then only wake up from wet dream?


Hello Mr Civil Servants,

Please note that in the past, you name were government servants. Government servants in the past were lansi, arrogant as if whole world own him/her a living.

In this new age, your name no longer government servants. Your name now call Civil Servants. Civil servants serve the rakyat. Government servants serve only the government, arrogance and ignore rakyat plight.

Things have changed. Berubah sebelum Diubah.

If you still think you have iron rice bowl and try to break others clay bowls like robbers of the day, just be prepared to get terminated very soon. Very soon indeed.

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Jun 18 2010, 06:40 PM

There's a Vampire movie call Daybreakers.
What happens when human become extinct and no more blood for Vampires?
http://www.daybreakersmovie.com/

What happen when we have no more ringgit? We print more money and our currency soon will be down and soon RM will become RMB.


This post has been edited by hackwire: Jun 18 2010, 08:11 PM

ohh..we will in not so far futures RM equal to RMB but it will drop further after that and heading to IND.

I have seen many good civil servants in my life...but most of them in kampung and i mean many years ago.

that time their smiles are so nice and real and nowadays you are not sure if their smiles are from their evil sides or their greedy sides..

they all think that they have golden rice bowl and will feed them for the rest of their life and the govt is not going to do anything to them.

but when the rakyat themselves unable to feed their own family n childrens...sooner or later they will demand the govt to do something or they will do something to take back what belongs to them....

it is not fairytale....

it is the reality.......

so, how much the govt can saves if they retrenched and reduced civil servants ratio to a reasonable rate where in thailand it is 2 n here is 5...double of what the thai civil servants number...so, with estimated 1.2 millions of civil servants in Malaysia, the average salary is around RM25K a year. so, retrenched 600,000 of civil servants will save the govt

15,000,000,000.00 a year.

tht is a big figure right??

and furthermore the retrenched 600,000 workers can then reemploy to work in the private sector and we, Malaysia, will then be

proud enough to tell the world....WE ARE EFFICIENT AND CAPABLE !


nothing personal...just my crazy idea...which might happen sooner or later....

Bobby C has a point. Uk has a 60million population, and only 500,000 (http://washminster.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-many-civil-servants-in-uk.html) civil servants. Comparatively, Malaysia has an estimated 1.2million (2009), at 27million population. An uncle from overseas jokingly said;

"Over there, for a project valued at 156million pounds, it takes 3 core people to manage it, but in Malaysia, they might form a special company (SPV) to control another company, a PMC and further sub the work to a dozen different c/o's. Efficiency isn't the government's policy".

I myself had a lousy experience with PBT... i had the intention of building a makeshift gerai/kiosk besides the main road... out of courtesy asked around the local PBT how i go about... the paperwork & requirements was equivalent to building a township... and the nice but irritating lady said; "Encik... borang-borang dan kelulusan ambil masa sekurang-kurangnya 6-8 bulan"....... WTF?! Are these people living in the stone ages? They don't use faxes/computers/emails/telephones??

The joke is... how many Malaysian civil servants does it take to change a light bulb? Ermm... can you come back and ask later,maybe next year? The person in charge of the person in charge of the particular department handling this particular subcommittee monitoring the relevant acting committee is on leave, and so are the other 30 related officers.

Another thing our politicians fail to notice are the daily leakages; unwarranted claims, lengthy breaks, CEREMONIAL stuff, superficial stuff... and why do agencies/institutions HAVE TO FINISH OFF ALLOCATIONS FOR THE YEAR??????????????? Other countries... tend to save, Malaysia tends to spend and spend and spend on so many unnecessary things. Forget about corruption for a while, try imagining IF a civil servant somehow claimed an extra unwarranted RM10 per month... thats quite a lot. Add on those wasteful ceremonial stuff. Now, imagine the government actually PAYING these people to do things they DON'T DO EFFICIENTLY (just assume... a job that can be effectively done by 3 people, the government is paying 10 to do). I believe this is the main source of Malaysia's monetary leakage (this was told by a close friend...).

My personal pov... this is an in bred culture cultivated thru years of practice. The civil servant culture, reflecting the political parties that govern. Want change? Change the federal government. The next government will be wary and not slack off. Then again, nothings for sure in politics.

I passed Bahau, Rompin, Muadzam. Man, these are the new hotspots! I haven't used that road for a year, maybe two... many, many BH's. I did hear rumors... many are invested by Singaporeans... PBT's might be a problem (towns). I believe these outside investors will spur the industry to a different level. But as usual... the red tape...

Took a vid clip of one BH which really got my attention (but security and courtesy reasons, takle la nak post. dont have consent). Happy to see more BH's.

I hated the most in life is when I have to go to any Govt department to have a dealing even though it is a very simple matter of just trying to know the procedure of something…..you could never predict when you are going to get the correct answer…..U are considered striking lottery if u can get the answer or thing done within 3 visits……………in an office with no less than 10 civil servants inside, still 90% high chance u get the following answers why the person in charge is not available……mesyarat, cuti, mc, function, khursus, kenduri, kematian, minum kopi, dalam bilek boss, boss pangil, baru keluar, isteri beranak, hantar anak ke sekolah, luar station, baru keluar, bila dia balek? Tak tau…..u cuba mai lah esok ……I tak boleh buat apa, office boy saya ambil cuti..……sometime, it seems the whole office almost vacant and closed down for the day cos a distant relative of a staff passed away and everybody went to say bye bye………it looks like in an office of 10, if one is absent, the whole office seems stand still and cannot function like a motor engine stalled with missing part….so this is our civil service culture the Malaysia style……….Malaysia butuk butuk boleh…….. It just keeps on reminding me of one cartoon created by one very famous local cartoonist, Lat, 20 years ago………of one lorry load of TNB staff changing just a street light bulb……….I really missed the Kampong Boy series of Datuk Lat……..but it seems ever since he was conferred the Datukship, he became silenced……


Can anybody invite him to create some cartoons on the Bird's nest indutry?

This post has been edited by Lucas 1: Jun 19 2010, 02:07 PM

If it was me, i'd draw a caricature of swiftlets holding forms lining up in front of counters manned by orangutans, chimpanzees and proboscis monkeys scratching their heads not knowing what to do.

RTM1 news just now, 'Sabah State Government Will Finalize State Guidelines On Swiftlets by the end of year'. Hmmm... assuming the 1GP will be out... it being a 'guideline', a general outline... so the state will have authority & custom rulings? Assuming so... might be good. Worse come to worse, blackmailing the existing state government (votes) sounds like a good idea.

If the govt want to take a year to draw the guideline than they shouldn't have stop anyone to start BH or create any difficulty to new investor now. they have every right to do so unless the safety of public is jeorpadize.

All authorities should not be acting like they are the law and they cannot approve anything yet until 1GP is drawn. What if it takes 2-3 years...matil lah..

Precisely the point to ponder !

Are the authorities stopping new birdhouses from being built because of "proposed Swifllet House guidelines" or because of existing building bye laws ?

You'll find that there are many infringements on existing building bye laws and whether there is going to be 1GP or not, it is still not going to be approved because what is existing is not being followed. The new guidelines will not make it any easier.

IMHO The authorities cannot approve swiftlet houses because there is no provision in law but they can approve building plans for any renovations. They can also approve for a change of use, eg to a warehouse instead of office. All under whatever law that exists.

However, in the absence of National Guidelines, local councils can make laws to be followed specifically in areas under their jurisdiction.


This post has been edited by tuckfook: Jun 20 2010, 06:30 PM

Hehe... i think thats the real essence of the issue.

Some of the existing Acts (the date maybe lain since banyak pindaan);

Perhilitan
Akta Perlindungan Hidupan Liar 1976

MOH
Akta Pemusnahan Serangga Pembawa Penyakit 1975

PBT/State Gov
Akta Kerajaan Tempatan 1976
Akta Jalan Parit & Bangunan 2001
Akta Perkhidmatan Bomba 1988
Section 52, Kanun Tanah Negara 1965
Perisytiharan Warta Kerajaan Negeri (for whatever)

These i guess are just some. Personally, do you really think it would be easy to apply for permits/licensing... even when owners comply? We know how pbts are littered with corrupt officials and enforcement staff. In the first place, unless there is a 'Warta Kerajaan Negeri' or 'Akta Kecil' under PBT, they CANNOT so called kutip cukai premis burung walit or lesen perniagaan burung walit. At least thats what i understand (please correct me if i'm wrong). Lets say we don't infringe any laws or bylaws... they can't even compound us. The first round with my pbt, you can say i won. They resorted to a lame excuse 'menunggu kebenaran dari jabatan veterinar'. Have this new saying i use when dealing with pbt;

You tell me why, i will comply,
Try to lie, then you can go die.

Compounding to the existing non-facilitative acts... will be a 1GP that sucks. If we can at least get a FAIR 1GP, it'll be a boost of sorts... motivational. One... we will continue fighting hard for the sake of SSP's, push for amendments of acts. Two, we can pressure PBT's to be FACILITATIVE in view of the 1GP... since we have all figured out that it is the state government with the real mojo. Three, we can now reel in more and more members to enter associations (please note i am not implying any association... but choose a fair, rationale, one that takes care of members interest & the industry as well), the rationale... voting power. Black mail is the best resort (not applicable to other stuff mind you).

there is an article about selangor BN association objecting to the 5 year deadline of town birdhouses and various issues in the oriental daily 东方日报.

could not find link in website, didn't manage to scan the paper

Not forgetting those live under pension. How much pension are we giving out every yr, to those legible and worst not legible? Multiple tens of billions.

But fair is fair, salaries in the past were low, we cannot just take away their pensions tomorrow and ask them to minta sedekah. We cannot over generalised and say all civil servants are incompetence, corrupt, lazy, self-serving etc.

I have work with some highly competence, always able to reach and replied enquires in detailes. Unfortunately after yr or two, begin sent to PM dept, probably spotted of their potential. Then things again fall back to squire one. Replaced with civil servants who like to say, 'I don't know', 'I feel so', 'I hope so', 'I guess so' or 'I'm on kopi break?!

Those who are found to be incompetent and corrupted etc must be warned, failure which futher action must be taken eg. termination either job contract or future pension, as a lesson esp to those who are still living in their wet dream.

Country is bleeding to dead, are we rakyat still want to sit still and watch?

Cut subsidies if was good, then cut pensions too esp to those corrupted and incompetent fellows.

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Added on June 21, 2010, 10:17 amInvolvement of foreign investors can be either positive or negative.

Again no offence just share thoughts. Rompin-Pekan use to be famous area for offshore fishing esp during sail sailfish season. During this peak seasons, most trips have be pre-booked for months, some even paid in advance. Unfortunately during the day of your trip, skippers made last min cancellation and gave your trip to some other group (from down south) who can offer 50% above market value. Many complaints have been ignored, so you just have to accept that's the way it works. If you can 'kopi' the skippers last min, you can grab away rights of others.

Similarly, no surprise some rich guys down south who can set up ecoparks and work hand in hand with those drafting the regulations so that the new law will lean to their favour. We already have some of our rich local boys who are playing these kind of games, when these rich investors coming in, potentially going to stir more s**t out of the industry.

Just have to live with it and make sure we dont step on it.


This post has been edited by Bobby C: Jun 21 2010, 10:17 AM