I have already completed all the 6 CPA segments & I m soon to become a full CPA. However there're so many unpleasant comments in the accounting job market that the CPA Program is relatively easy to pass & its quality is of a very low standard. There're also some negative comments that all the CPA graduates do not even have the basic accounting knowledge.

What are your views?

what do you expect??? All multiple choice....

YOU HAVE COMPLETED CPA AUSTRALIA PLEASE AT LEAST STATE YOUR OPINION ON YOUR OWN QUESTION

+1

Easy, as compared to what? It is a relative questio. Did you find it easy? Do not have basic knowledge? You mean to say other professional bodies have different standard?

Very true. Probably you should try to give some points from the view of a CPA student.

In my opinion though, it's more of a recognition issue. Some qualification might have better recognition at certain countries and vice-versa.

I do not disagree. In fact, I hate the cheap advertising/marketing it does. I do not see any other professional bodies doing this. They let the qualification do the talking instead. Even the syllabus seems rubbish to me, badly constructed and hardly gets straight to the point. Let's not forget even as a student member, you're paying 700++ AUD every year.

If you are pursuing an accountancy related job, the chartered bodies are my recommendations. Otherwise, if you are forced to (read: audit firms) and/or have other ulterior careers in mind CPA is alright. We have limited amount of time, so study what you want and how much you want.

PS: Try not to rely too much on these structured syllabus for learning. Self-research is way more effective at times to differentiate self.

This post has been edited by Sesshoumaru: May 5 2010, 07:00 PM

Don't worry, if you join my audit department, when you need to explain on certain issues, my director will ask you to bring along your text book and sit down explain slowly to him

I like case study which requires you to read few pages of story and write something out of it. This is where examiners can filter out those who use "brute force" or "photocopy" technique cos its too general that you need to be specific. Every mark needs to be earned. This build the skill of breaking down it to pieces and reconstruct it to suit examiner's requirement. I heard from a senior taking icaew. The last few papers (case study) is 4 hours. The story is near hundred pages (like a book) but its an "open book" which you can bring whole trolley of books to exam hall (which everyone did). Not sure how you can read, refer, digest and answer in such a short period though.

Selecao,
What can you expect???...CPA only test you on all the easy MCQs. Even me myself is a CPA & sorry to say that this whole CPA Program is a real kid stuff & it's even easier than PMR exam.

if its so easy u should be thankful lor

That being the case we should advise form one students to study this course. It is after all a professional body in Australia.

The entire CPA Program is a joke & has already become a laughing stock in the employment market. True enough, form 1 students should be able to pass it easily.

Murusundram,
I am skeptical about what you say. I am not saying your are lying. I hope more forumers will support your view. That being the case, I wondered how forumers had taken the course and found it difficult. If there are I guess they will not admit. After what you said, who would admit that they are less than PMR level.

Faceless,
I know very well from A-Z about this whole CPA Program. I m very open & direct & always speak the truth eventhough the truth can sometimes offend the other parties. I can understand that most accountants like to champion their own prof bodies regardless whether it's CPA, ICAA, CIMA, ICAEW, ACCA, MICPA etc. For CPA, there's nothing to shout about, just look at the exam...the whole CPA Program is a joke. Unlike ICAA whereby it tests the candidates on 4 main skills/criterias required of an accountant: technically sound, analysis, judgemental & application. So what CPA tests?....the answer is NOTHING, the main aim is to pass as many candidates as possible in order to become the largest & biggest in order to generate more revenue.

On the forumers, I m pretty sure deep inside their heart they would agree with me but they would not admit it openly.....they just want to champion their own prof body, CPA regardless how easy the exam is. If they are honest & direct, they will fully support my statement.

Technically learning should be continuous and one should not be content with just one affiliation. Looks like your way to overcome the CPA thingy by taking another one. Is that the proper way to go ?

The whole matter here is down to 1 main issue which is career progression & advancement.....ask yourself why the Big 4 & other MNCs in Aust do not recognise CPA? There must be a reason why.

Same as the other thread, this statement is rubbish. The professional recognition is there. For American MNCs with offices in Australia (they outnumber Aussie MNCs btw), CPA is preferable to CA as it's much easier to convert to US CPA.

This post has been edited by seantang: May 6 2010, 02:09 PM

Seantang,
You're making yourself a fool by saying CPA (Aust) is preferable to CA...it shows that you don't have any knowledge in regards to recognition. The US CPA is equivalent in standard with other CAs (ICAEW, ICAI, ICAS, ICAA, CICA) and also HK CPA.

The CPA (Aust) stands for Certified Practising Accountants & NOT Certified Public Accountants. The word Practising doesn't mean anything but the word Public is a highly respected designation.

So how can u justify that the CPA (Aust) can convert to US CPA easily? even there's a MRA...what a joke!

Murusundram, don't you are not offending me. I am not in the accounting profession. Considering the TS had hear negative sentiments about it. I am sure there would be people who will share your feelings.

Let me put it this way. Australian CPA is the only CPA qualification eligible for the American IQEX exam. Not HKICPA, ICPAS or MICPA etc. And the Americans put it on par with a selected clutch of CAs. Even your beloved ACCA or ICAEW is not eligible.

"Currently, only members of the following professional bodies are eligible for the IQEX:

Certified Practicing Accountants of Australia
Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia
Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants
Instituto Mexican de Contadores Publicos
Chartered Accountants in Ireland
New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants

Candidates who are not members of one of these organizations and want to be licensed as a CPA in the U.S., must pass the Uniform CPA Examination."

NABSA


Perhaps it's you who doesn't have much knowledge with regards to American MNCs. I however, am in the fortunate position to be involved in hiring accountants into one.

All in all, in terms of professional recognition on the other side of the Atlantic, you are talking rubbish.

This post has been edited by seantang: May 6 2010, 06:56 PM

lol~ create an account for this?

Seantang,
What I had commented on ACCA/ICAEW in our previous discussion topic, "ACCA vs CPA" are the true facts but it doesn't mean that I belong to or love ACCA/ICAEW. In that topic, I also mentioned that I am a member of both CPA Aust & ICAA if you still can remember.

On our current discussion, I find that your statements are inconsistent and contradicting.

You mentioned in your earlier post "CPA is preferable to CA as it's much easier to convert to US CPA"
BUT in your latest post you mentioned "Certified Practicing Accountants of Aust, Institute of Chartered Accountants in Aust plus others are the only eligible bodies for the IQEX"..... meaning to say that both CPA(Aust) & ICAA are equally prefered based on what you said, am I right?

So you're twisting & contradicting your statements & by doing so, you're not only making a fool of yourself but you've also disgraced yourself by showing you're not sure with what you're talking.

The actual fact is that, CA is the only one preferred by the MNCs & not the CPA (eventhough there's a MRA/MOU between CPA & US CPA). As aware the CA & US CPA are equivalent in standard and quality & the exams of these 2 bodies are equally tough.

So, on the Big 4 in Aust, I even suggested to you in our previous discussion topic, to call up or email an inquiry to any of the Big 4 which one is recognised, CA or CPA. Have you done so? Most probably you know very well that only the CA is recognised & not CPA but you don't want to admit it.

Correct me if I m wrong, I guess you're also a CPA (Aust), am I right? Maybe you're hurt & angry because the true facts about the CPA is being revealed. I m a CPA too (and also a CA). In Aust, ICAA is the only premier prof accounting body that produce accountants who are technically sound, highly competent & skillful.

Come on, Seantang, we must accept the reality & cannot simply deny the true facts. If this issue is allowed to continue, it will further damage the CPA qualification. To remedy the situation, all CPAs must stand up & voice our concern & demand that the CPA Program must be set at a high standard as comparable to ICAA.

So, are you willing to do so?

Well guys, what a hot debate & I appreciate all your comments. At least now I know where does CPA stands compared to other bodies. I agree that the quality of CPA (Aust) qualification is way too low compared to other bodies. The only compliment is that it is still recognised by MIA.

Most members of major accountancy bodies use the "Chartered" or "Certified Public Accountant" designation. Both ICAA & CPA (Aust) have already existed for more than 100 years and the ICAA was granted with a Royal Charter in 1928.

Unfortunately for CPA (Aust), members only use the "Certified Practicing Accountant" designation & NOT even granted the royal charter or entitled to use "Certified Public Accountant" designation. Is it because the CPA (Aust) exam is too easy & low quality?

I also acknowledge that the "Chartered" & "Certified Public Accountant" titles are protected by law and not every prof bodies are entitled to it.

No, I don't keep track of you. In any case, it was a rhetorical statement.


Conceded. I'm guilty of grouping ICAA and ICAEW together and neglecting to correct my earlier post after quoting NABSA.

No problem, it still soundly rebuts your point that ICAA is more recognised than CPA Australia. The Americans obviously put them on par. And as far as recognition is concerned, CPA Australia is more recognised than some of the other CPAs and CAs you quoted.


Oh please lah. As if so drama. Even if I made the mistake above about ICAA and ICAEW being equal in the eyes of US CPA - the fact is that you're still wrong about CPA Australia being inferior in recognition to both of those CAs. Shouldn't you be the one who's disgraced, fool?


In actual fact, no. You don't have a monopoly on what's "actual fact".

Companies like American MNCs are pragmatic. They will favour whoever gets the job done. And in accounting, recognition and getting licensed is a big part of getting the job done.


Again, rubbish. Both ICAA and CPA Australia are regulatory bodies in Australia, able to license accountants and accounting firms that provide prescribed statutory services. The Big 4 are as pragmatic as the MNCs.


I'm not hurt or angry. I can't be bothered about whether CPA Australia or ICAA comes out tops. Would it surprise you if I said that I do not hold a professional accounting qualification? But that I just happen to hire, supervise them and approve their leave & expenses related to these professional bodies?

And for this discussion, I'm just a busybody when it comes to fanboy forumers who can present no better evidence other than ranting about the subjective difficulty of examination methods, telling people to make phone calls and largely ignoring the fact that the largest population of professional accountants, MNCs and generally the largest economy in the world recognises CPA Australia on par with or above most CA or other CPA qualifications.

Even within the Commonwealth, there are NOT many jurisdictions and/or regulatory or professional bodies which do not give equal professional standing to CPA Australia compared to CA and other CPAs.

On this "true" recognition factor alone, you ARE talking rubbish.


As I said above. Murusundram does not have a monopoly on "true facts".

The standards of the exams do not concern me. But it's whether the qualification allows the accountant to practise in various jurisdictions with the minimum additional undertaking. On this front, CPA Australia is not deficient. In fact, as far as the US is concerned, it is superior to many other qualifications, which you hold to have superior recognition.

Until the regulatory bodies in various jurisdictions change their recognition criteria, your assertions about the CPA Australia's rubbish recognition remains just that, rubbish.

This post has been edited by Murusundram: May 7 2010, 11:05 PM

No need. Your last reply was all subjective prattle based solely on your own misguided perceptions which you keep referring to as "true facts". Fact is that CPA Australia is recognised by professional bodies and regulatory bodies governing the profession - and in the US, more so than some your favourite 'other' professions.

And your response is still "call them up" or "ask the employment market" or quoting your own psychological assessment why they use practising instead of public or why there is no charter... FEEBLE. Nothing concrete, nothing published or mandated by the profession itself and NOTHING that DETRACTS from the fact that they are recognised.

Again, everything you have said is either unsubstantiated or irrelevant rubbish.

As for me being professionally qualified... what does it matter if I am or am not qualified (note that I did say "what if")? You apparently have 2 professional qualifications and you still don't know your arse from your elbow.

This post has been edited by seantang: May 8 2010, 12:26 AM

I lean towards Seantang. The question of whether CPA's exam structure will undermine its level of recognition will remain debatable for some time, but you can't really respect the opinion that CPA is a joke and comparable to PMR, despite the multitude of recognition it obtains from professional accounting bodies all over the world. I agree that the ICAA curriculum is more rigourous than CPA, but getting a CPA does not pose any technical barrier to the job functions typically performed by an accountant. And the idea that getting an ICAA after CPA would make up for any possible shortcomings entailed by CPA is immature to say the least; who really pays attention to your qualification once you begin working. Under the close scrutiny of employers, to what extent could a qualification work in your favour in portraying yourself as being competent?

Anyway, Murusundram did imply something worth bearing in mind: two fresh graduates, all other things being equal, in applying for a job; the one pursuing ICAA might have an edge over CPA students bacause the willingness to go after the rigour of ICAA might be perceived as being more committed to the accounting profession.

This post has been edited by scribdutd: May 8 2010, 02:04 PM

Mr Non-accountant or Mr 'What If' Accountant,
Thanks for your prompt reply. Congratulation on your new stupidity status - Stupid Cow.
Let me justify my reasons:
Until now, you still think that "Practising" is of a more superior or higher status than Chartered or Public despite I had done you a big favour by telling you the right or true facts (or "true facts" as what you mentioned) about the CPA (Aust) so that you would be more knowledgeable concerning the whole accounting profession. Also I had explained many times, in terms of recognition, CPA (Aus) is only recognised in Aust, NZ, M'sia, S'pore, China & HK. Unfortunately you deny the reality & you've no guts to check out with the Big 4/MNCs in regards to its recognition. An independent 3rd parties evidence are always reliable & accurate. Btw, as stupid cow, do you know what is "Independent 3rd parties evidence"?. It seems like you still think that a Proton car (Practicing) is more expensive & prestigious than a Mercedes or BMW (Chartered or Public). Isn't that make you a stupid cow?

Let me conclude (though not final) 2 scenarios abt you.

Scenario 1 as Mr Non-Accountant
As what you said, you're just a busybody non accountant who's not in the accounting profession at all. Can you answer me as non-acccountant, what you know abt the whole profession & the exams? The answer is you know NUTS becoz you're not in this profession. Basically all busybodies just create their own theories or facts irrespective whether true or false and make a big fuss of it. This applies to you.

You just 'happen' to be involved in hiring, approve leave/expenses....that relates to prof bodies, then as busybody, you made a big deal as though you know everything abt the profession. Only fools will do such thing.

I have been in this profession long enough as member of both CPA (Aust) & ICAA and I have worked in M'sia, S'pore, Aust & a short working contract of 1 year in HK (I did mention in the previuos topic). I have seen & experienced more things as qualified accountant.

I advise you to go & sit for the prof exam & get yourself into this profession, learn & expose yourself as much as possible in this profession, then only you come and talk to me. The more you give your comments as non-accountant, the more you make yourself as a fool. As proven in the previous few posts, you don't know what you're talking & all your statements are not consistent.

Scenario 2 as 'What If' Accountant
Since you mentioned 'What If', I guess maybe you're in this profession plus you're a CPA (Aust) qualified accountant. The question is IF you were really a CPA (Aust) member, why you're denying yourself as member? why you never admit it openly? This is becoz the whole CPA (Aust) qualification is no different from the PMR exam or even easier & makes it a laughing stock in the market. Therefore you're too embarassed or ashamed to admit it. There's nothing to be ashamed of, eventhough it's a rubbish qualification & many people poke fun & laugh at it, so what? Let it be.

From the beginning of previous topic until now, I openly admit that I 'm CPA (Aust) qualified & if people poke fun at it, let it be. Let me share my experience in HK with you. Some accountants in HK are quite snobbish & if they ask me which body I belong to, I would first say CPA(Aust). Then they will start to laugh & poke fun of it & say in Cantonese "Lap Sarp" meaning rubbish. When I continue to say I m also an ICAA member, they became amazed & say "its brilliant" or in Cantonese they said "Hou Yeh" or "Keng Yeh" meaning great.

So Mr Non-Accountant/'What If' Accountant, you're either falls into scenario 1 or 2 or maybe 3. I welcome your reply again (if you don't mind to upgrade your stupidity level).

Stop the ridiculous ranting, personal attacks and name calling lah... does nothing but show exactly how childish you are. You've been proven wrong, so just take it on the chin like a man. Disgraceful!

+1 Murusundram.

Technically speaking, comparing CPA (Aust) to ACCA, ICAA or ICAEW, the syllabus/topics covered under CPA (Aust) is so much lesser compared to the rest of the professional papers. I have seen a lot of CPA (Aust) who can't understand the concept of deferred tax, or can't even do up simple consolidation entries. Even people who are taking CPA (Aust) exam admit that they are taking it as it is the easiest paper, and none of them did even mention about CPA (Aust) being more superior than ACCA, or comparable with ICAA or ICAEW.

seantang, I would suggest that you take a look at the syllabus covered by CPA (Aust) and compare against ACCA, ICAA, ICAEW and you'll be able to see clearly what is the difference. Or, just speak to an ACCA grad and compare what he/she knows, against your knowledge, if you happen to be a CPA (Aust), and you'll be amazed by the gap between CPA (Aust) and the rest of the papers.

In terms of your statement that "Companies like American MNCs are pragmatic. They will favour whoever gets the job done", I do not foresee how CPA (Aust) can get the job done better than ACCA, ICAA or ICAEW grad, with their very limited knowledge on accounting.

There's no point arguing that CPA (Aust) is more superior merely because it requires a degree/any other reason. What we are looking here is the quality, and so the question that you should be looking at is-Do CPA (Aust) graduates have the same level of knowledge compared ACCA, ICAA or ICAEW. I believe this will be the most appropriate yardstick to gauge which professional qualification is better. Its not rocket science, just a simple question.

Well, I do agree that perhaps certain MNC may have preference over certain qualification, and you may be right to point out that US MNC have preference over CPA (Aust), but there are also many UK MNC out there which prefer ACCA,ICAA or ICAEW. But we aren't here to share which prof qualification is more preferred by employers. What we are talking about here is the quality.

I strongly agree with Murusundram that all CPAs must stand up & voice our concern & demand that the CPA Program must be set at a high standard as comparable to ICAA. I believe that is the right thing to do to keep up with the pace of other prof bodies, rather than limiting the exposure through simple syllabus to make life easy.

Gd job Murusundram for pointing all the facts out (though it's a little bit harsh), but you have my support.

Regards
Member of ACCA and ICAEW

This post has been edited by wilsonseeee: May 9 2010, 02:51 PM

All are to bear in mind that none of us take both profession. Unless you do, or else, none of us qualify to make a statement here (I believe its less likely for a person to have take these 2 papers).

Added to that, both qualify for MIA, so their recognition is the same @ M'sia. There's no point critic over the other profession as it does not benefit you at all.

It's up to the individual to make his/her own decision on which papers to opt for.

Lastly, for those that claimed themselves as ACCA/ICAEW should feel shameful on providing such non-evidence statement over CPA.

---

Added on May 9, 2010, 4:39 pmSir, CPA does make some changes early this year. Most of the syllabus have change.




This post has been edited by yiivei: May 9 2010, 04:39 PM

Not much changes, it's still very much the same & back to square again.

How do you know? Since you had completed the CPA program early this year, how would you know the different?

I suggest you take a look at the lists of qualifications recognised by various regulatory or professional bodies. You will be able to see clearly that they don't agree with you.


If their knowledge if so limited, then how come they get recognised by all the same bodies as you do?


You don't believe that entry criteria is also one of the cornerstones of quality? Must be the ACCA side of you talking.


Your stuff on 'quality' and knowledge is quite rich, since both your qualifications are not recognised in the US and have to take the full CPA exam, while the CPA Aus is eligible for the IQEX conversion exam.

At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding... ie. are they recognised. If you think your qualification is so superior to CPA Aus, then you should go to your association's AGM and insist that they stop giving reciprocal recognition to CPA Aus and lobby the regulators to stop recognising them.

Then come back and tell us if the management of your 'superior' organisations agree with you.

Hmm. I'm leaning towards Murusundram's argument.

I have an Auditing senior lecturer at Monash who is also the course coordinator for the Honours degree of accounting in both campuses (Caulfield and Clayton).

She is a CPA Aus holder and also a ICAA holder. She sits on the panel of some international accounting organization... and there has been strong sentiments that the CPA Aus is beginning to be more fee-oriented and is mainly interested in gaining more and more members. Many professionals in the field and also students taking CPA are disgruntled over the fact that non-accountants or those from non-accounting backgrounds can become a CPA holder easily now.

Previously, they had to do more modules or start from scratch with an accounting related degree or something like that, and now, they only need to sit for a few papers. Something along those lines.

I also spoke to many aussies and international students in my uni, and also several academicians, and they share the same sentiment. However, my lecturer still tells us that the answer to "should I do ICAA or CPA?" would be "do whatever your employer wants you to do" or do both if you can. For now.

Honestly, if any of you is right, what effect does it have? Muru are you still paying your CPA membership fees? No matter who wins there's no actual 'result' or 'output', just some ego boost, so just forget about this matter, and go back to work

I always monitor closely the latest development of CPA (Aus) as I have serious concern abt the quality of its exam.

I disagree with you on your statement. You DO NOT need to take both papers to qualify to make the statement. It is a well known fact that CPA (Aust) is easier compared to the rest of the prof papers, so if you are trying to twist and turn the fact around, you'll just end up to be the laughing stock. If you are suggesting CPA (Aust) is as tough as ACCA/ICAEW/ICAA, please do up some research before making further comments. Try to look at the syllabus, exam questions etc and tell me which one demands higher level of knowledge.



Non evidence? The evidence is out there. Stop being a laughing stock and tell people that there's no evidence that CPA (Aust) is easier/is as difficult as the others. If you do not have any idea about the structure of the papers, do yourself a favour and spend some time to do up some research. Then we talk.



I believe Selacao has already clarified this matter on my behalf.

It's good to see that there's a general increase of concern over the syllabus of CPA (Aust). For those who claimed that there's no evidence that CPA is easier than the rest/ CPA (Aust) is as difficult as the others, sorry to say this, you are just showing how contended are you with the limited knowledge you gained while being ignorant over the development of the rest of the prof qualifications. Well, whether to stay behind and continue with this sort of standard, or to raise your concern in order to keep up with the pace and development of other prof bodies, its up to you.

This post has been edited by wilsonseeee: May 9 2010, 11:33 PM

It's good to see that there's a general increase of concern over the syllabus of CPA (Aust).
[/quote]
In fact, more than 50% of CPA (Aust) members are very concern abt the low standard & quality of the entire CPA exam.

---

Added on May 10, 2010, 7:00 amI agree with all the valid points raised up by Murusundram, Wilsonseee & Grimm. It makes sense.

Let me explain on the "Recognition" issue raised up by Seantang. I agree with Murusundram that CPA (Aus) is only recognised in Aus, NZ, Msia, Spore, China & HK.

Seantang, I jz need to share this info with you, pls don't get too upset. When you said that it's recognised by other "prof bodies", it's all becoz of the MRA/MOU signed between the bodies. By signing the MRA/MOU, it does NOT mean that it's recognised by that body & more so in that country alone. Members still need to sit for the exam of that particular body or to satisfy other stringent requirements in order to be admitted as member so that they can be recognised in that particular country. Another reason of signing the MOU/MRA is none other than marketing or expansion reason. Every prof bodies wants to increase their membership so that they will become stronger & have more influence & to capture the market in another region.

Seantang, hope the above will clarify your understanding in terms of "Recognition". No offence please, we are here to share info.

Cheers.


This post has been edited by Selecao: May 10 2010, 07:00 AM

Selecao

As long as they are given exemptions or concessions, or allowed to practice in a certain jurisdiction, that means recognition... plain and simple. If these accounting bodies and regulatory bodies have any interest in maintaining quality standards, they will ensure that ALL routes meet their requirements. They will not as you've described, leave their back door unlocked.

cool down people..
why all the arguements?

from my own opinion, for people like me( accounting and finance major), i would take CPA as a backup for my accounting field because:
1. it's by far the easiest professional cert
2. it's well-recognized

i think it doesn't matter how hard or how easy a paper is, the most important thing is, can the person who took the paper, performs?
it could be a case that CPA australia thinks that their paper, with that standard, it's sufficient for them to perform in accounting jobs.

if i would really want to pursue higher professional paper, all these ACCA / CPA would be out of the talk. CA, ICAA or ICAEW would be the real deal because of how the course is structured and how people are recognized through the exams.

Ultimately, the most important thing is how much you can absorb, analyze and apply your knowledge through these courses into work.
You can have all the professional certificates, but you're nothing if it's not being utilized in your work.

just 2 cents

This post has been edited by Blackdawn: May 10 2010, 01:00 PM

Seantang,
You still don't get what I have said concerning recognition. Yes, on paper, it's about recognition but in real fact, it's all about marketing & expansion. Let's leave this recognition issue beside & let me share with you my experience.

I graduated with Bach of Commerce (Hon.) & immediately I started my CPA Program in Aust. It has always been my dream to join the Big 4 in Aust & lady luck was with me, I get called up for interview with all the Big 4. Just to cut the story short, I attended 3 interviews (PWC, EY & Deloitte) in within 1 month time. The interview & assessment process went very well until 1 final requirement from them....you know what? They required me to enrol for the ICAA & ignore the CPA Program. Reason given was that, they only recognise ICAA & not CPA. I wasn't willing to do so becoz at that time I have already completed 2 CPA segments. Then 1 month later I got an interview call frm KPMG, again the same thing happened. This time I asked the interviewer why I must do CA & not CPA. He gave me a friendly answer that ICAA has long been recognised to produce accountants with technical excellency, highly skilled & competent. 3 years have gone & now I deeply regreted that I did not take up CA.

Actually I have just came back to KL 6 months ago & I discovered that most employers prefer to hire ACCA/ICAEW/MICPA/CIMA & other CAs. So what about CPA (Aust) graduates? I have a cousin who's a Senior HR Manager in a listed company. Prior to that, she was the HR Manager of 2 MNCs (both German Companies). She told me that in her current company plus her 2 previous MNC co, they have a policy to hire accountants that belong to a well reputable body that emphasises a lot on the skill & competency of their members. She told me those bodies are ACCA, ICAEW, ICAS, ICAI, CICA, CIMA, ICAA, NZICA & MICPA. However she said CPA (Aus) is not on the list.

That's the reason why I put up this discussion topic to get all the views.

Seantang, pls don't get upset, in this discussion we just want to share info with one another.

Cheers Mate

Ahhh good to see so many had come to support Muru claim. Now I can conclude "don't hire a CPA (AUS)"

i think there are ranking differences with all these certificates
ACCA and CPA is about the same level
while ICAA,ICAEW, CA are at a higher level

I guess the highest ranking of all is ICA Scotland. Nobody can beat them.

well, i will most probably take CPA Aus despite all these comments. Why? To me, it is more of person than the paper.

U can have ICAEW, ACCA or ICAA but what deferentiates you from the others is still YOU. not the paper.

Would serious waste that kind of money to aquire and maintain it, Jim.

Again & again & again.....over & over again, as proven in the previous few post, you don't know your facts. You're just simply creating your own theory & blah blah blah in this discussion topic & you don't even know how to apply the word reciprocal. It even makes you more than a stupid cow...ooops, sorry, as promised I must be polite.

Let me do you another favour by explaining in detail to you.
ACCA never never has any reciprocal agreement in the past & present. They always stand alone. So far they only has MRA with MICPA, HK CPA, ICPAS & GCA. That's all. So basically you're talking rubbish again....aiyaa, I m too rude...must be polite.
On ICAEW, they have reciprocal agreement with ICAS, ICAI, ICAA, CICA, HK CPA, SAICA, NZICA & ICA of Zimbabwe. So where the heck you got the info that ICAEW has reciprocal agreement with CPA (Aus)?...you created yourself, is it?...such a dumb fool. However ICAEW do offer "Pathway" membership to members of ACCA, CIMA, CIPFA, AICPA, MICPA & CPA (Aus) members.Under this "pathway", it looks easy to apply but in practical it's never easy. This is bcoz you need to get an ICAEW member as sponsor who has known you for at least 3 years & must be working closely with you for the last 3 of the past 5 years & must know very very very well the level of your competency.
So the question is where's the heck to get an ICAEW member who has known you for 3 years + plus working closely with you for 3 years of the past 5 years + must know your competency level extremely well. How? where to get?.So it's still back to square again, want to become ICAEW member?....then you have to sit for the ICAEW exam! nothing is easy as what you think.
On the other hand, you had done a good job by creating your own facts/theory...your new theory is "A Cow (Practicing) can run faster than a Horse or Cheetah (Chartered or Public)". I don't know how many times you want to make a fool of yourself.

+1 to both. Couldn't agree more.

There is no practical need for this argument to go on actually. Why the hate over CPA (Aust)?

CPA is as common as a Bachelor of Degree nowadays due to commercialization... lots of Australia grads in Finance & Accounting field has one.

CPA exams are easier than ACCA, so an employer might value a ACCA grad than a CPA holder, if that field is purely accounting. But for fields like banking/finance, employer might value a CPA more than ACCA.

If you wanna work in a stock firm, like Hwang DBS, better if you go for CFA - they really value CFA grads. But CFA is harder than CPA, harder than ACCA. If you think ACCA pass rate is low, CFA pass rate is even lower. But if you do get one, you're a hot commodity that employer values alot

This post has been edited by antaeusguy: May 10 2010, 09:46 PM

Sigh the obvious solution is just to take another one lo. I always felt one is not enough. Thing is whether to go for more specialized mode (ICAEW), wider scope (MBA) or diversification (CFA). Anyway still young to do so .

You listed many qualifications - all of which are supposed to be "more recognised" than CPA Aus. I was not specifically talking about any particular qualifications as the net I cast captures many qualifications. My only concession is that I have loosely used the word 'reciprocal' to encompass all forms of recognition, mutual or otherwise.

In any case, anyone who has CPA Aus doesn't need reciprocals or exemptions from ACCA or ICAEW in terms of recognition.

In Malaysia, CPA Aus can join MIA just like ACCA, ICAEW or ICAA. With MIA membership, they can practice as accountants or apply for an audit licence from MOF.

In Singapore, ICPAS admits CPA Aus members just like ACCA, ICAEW or ICAA after a pre-admission course and local law proficiency test. After that they can apply to ACRA for public practice.

In Australia, both CPA Aus and ICAA both issue public practice certifications that allows holders to provide public accounting services in Australia. Members of CPA Aus, ICAA and NIA with the prescribed experience are eligible to apply to ASIC to be registered as a Registered Company Auditor.

In the US, NABSA allows CPA Aus and ICAA members to take the IQEX conversion exam, while most of the other CA and CPA qualifications have to go through the entire uniform CPA exam. After that, they can get a licence from one of the states.

HKICPA which is the licensing body in HK and it has reciprocals in the form of automatic conversion with most of the CA bodies but only a MRA with CPA Aus where they have additional requirements to fulfil as opposed to automatic conversion. However, if this is seen as 'recognition inferiority' of CPA Aus in HK, then ICAEW, ACCA etc must be seen inferior in the US.

Anyway, the list goes on.... but it's late, I'm tired and you're not worth it.

THIS is recognition. No amount of subjective opinion about exam standards or having "practising vs public" in the name or childish behaviour is going to change that. That's why I said if anyone is unhappy about CPA Aus being recognised as so, then MIA members should lobby MIA and MOF, ICPAS members should lobby ICPAS and ASIC, ICAA should lobby ACRA to remove their recognition of CPA Aus. ACCA members don't need to lobby anyone as they don't get to regulate anything.

So, again... I go back to your original statement that CPA Aus is not recognised... well, it's still rubbish statement. And you are still a pathetic name-calling retard... but then again, where else do rubbish statements come from, no?

This post has been edited by seantang: May 11 2010, 04:14 PM

So now, you agree & realise that the CPA Aus qualification is worthless & rubbish and now you propose for it to be de-recognised.
Do you know that if it's being de-recognised, many CPA Aus students/accountants will suffer?

Antaeusguy has made a very solid point & you should take note of it as well:
"CPA is as common as a Bach Degree nowadays due to commercialization....most Aust grad in Finance & Accounting field has one"

You should also take note of the comment posted by Grimm & the past experience of Selecao is not an isolated case, many CPA Aus students/members have similar experience. These are indications that CPA Aus qualification is nothing more than just a piece of blank paper.

What are you trying to prove? What is YOUR point? And let's say if YOU are RIGHT, then what?

So CPA is a piece of sh!t (hypothetically speaking, for the purposes of this argument), so? What are YOU going to do? What do you think ANYONE should do?

Then seantang says, if it sucks and you're unhappy, lobby to derecognize it. Then you come up with the above phrase? What the heck?!

Make up your mind, bean counter.

I think you misinterpreted what I have said. Mind you, I m a CPA too. Please read my comment posted on 7 May 10 on the last paragraph. Then only you come back & talk to me.

So, you are expecting me and other people reading this thread to put the subjective and unsubstantiated opinions of a few anonymous forumers who might or might not even be in the accounting profession ABOVE the published and implemented recognition criteria of the established accounting governing bodies in multiple countries?

You must be drunk or high, or both. Get real.

All of you CPA bashers should simply get a life, get a girlfriend or pay money to get laid or something. Until the day that CPA Aus is no longer recognised by the profession, whatever you say is just your petty, little opinions. And from all your arguments that CPA Aus is too easy, this pettiness probably stems from the fact that you are angry that you suffered more than the CPA Aus folks to get your professional qualification but are unable to obtain a higher payback in terms of recognition and career progression. If you feel so strongly about it, then for goodness' sakes grab a hold of your balls and do something about it. Attend the AGMs and state your point. Better yet, those of you who say you are CPA Aus members, attend the CPA Aus AGM and state your case. Or write to their "In The Black" monthly magazine. Screw them thoroughly for letting their standards dive. What's the point of shooting from the darkness in LYN?

Anyway... this thread has become meaningless. Revive it to take victory when the professional bodies stop recognising CPA Aus. Otherwise, put your tails between your legs and slink quietly away as you have been vanquished by published facts and reality.

Cool down, Seantang. Don't be too emotional & don't let anger to control you. Better stop the discussion here for today.
Seantang, get some rest & I m sure you will feel better tomorrow.

Cheers Mate.

Lol.. i planning to do CPA in this coming june 1... read ur post really scared me off... so wat's d conclusion?? Is CPA good?? As wat I know, Big4 in malaysia did recognize CPA... cuz most of my frens doing it now while working with Big4... and CPA is recognized by MIA (Msia institut of Accountant) to be a Charted Accountant in msia...

But the standard of CPA and ACCA... i think ACCA harder and more reputable ler...

So Selecao, may b u can try to apply big4 here?? and mind to share what u currently working as in malaysia??

Out of so many qualifications you had to pick these 2 -___-

Be more ambitious. Take ICAEW or ICAA. Or US CPA =D

kenkencafe. i cant help but to laugh at your post. just ask yourself this question:

1) WHY MUST YOU DO WHATEVER YOUR FRIEND DOES?

Just because they take CPA/ACCA/ICAEW/ICAA etc etc, you must follow with it? Go read up on the course structure and only then you decide which you want to pursue. Totally no point of you trying to pursue something that you have no idea about. Simply just because of "my friend is taking it".

Sigh. The mentality of Malaysian students.

Yes, the Big 4 in Msia are not so particular which body you belong to. They will take in anyone regardless whether CPA/MICPA/ACCA/ICAEW/ICAA/NZICA etc and also those local accounting degree holders. Also once you're a MIA member regardless which prof bodies you belong or even if you're only a local accounting degree holder, everyone is called Chartered Accountant.

I have an old friend who went to UK during the late 90s & he graduated with both ACCA & ICAEW. He's currently with E&Y, UK. He said that in UK, employers treat both ACCA & ICAEW as equal in terms of knowledge, skills & competency. If look at the exam, syllabus content & difficulty, overall both ACCA & ICAEW is equal. Just like in footbal, it's a goaless draw, it would take a penalty shootout to decide which one is better.

However in Aust, sad to say the situation is different with such a big gap that separates both CPA Aus & ICAA.

Currently I m working in a smal/medium practice firm in KL & prior to that I have worked for 3 years in a small CPA practice firm in Aust. I have tried applying for the Big 4 in KL but no feedback. According to my current manager, the Big 4 in KL prefer to hire someone from another Big 4 or they prefer to hire fresh graduates so that they can groom you from scratch. The reason he said was as for my case, it's difficult for them to decide which position they should put me in. If they put me as Audit Assistant, I would be over qualified and if they put me as Audit Senior, there's a risk that I might not be able to cope bcoz I m not from Big 4.

Selecao,
Can you please do me a favour? Can you check for me whether Seantang has stopped crying or not? The other day after reading my last post, he burst into tears & cried hysterically as though like the whole world has already ended for CPA.

Selecao, while you're at it... can you also check if Murusundram has gotten his head out of his ass yet? Last time, it was so far up.., it wasn't funny anymore.

This post has been edited by seantang: May 13 2010, 12:00 PM

This thread is funny.

Whoever said accountants were square? We have name-calling ones in here!!! How very sociable.

Hey, wasn't name calling and making things into alphabet soups part of our skillset in the first place?

I worked with colleagues with all kinds of qualification and it is safe to say that their qualification do not reflect their quality of work.

Dunno about accountants but auditor's are definetely NOT square. Heck, they're probably the most creative bunch of people you'll ever meet.

Are you REALLY, REALLY SURE about that? I don't find my colleagues being very creative!

LOL i thought it is the other way round?
Auditors being being the most square of all =p

We should all stop stereotyping accountants/auditors. I'm doing ICAEW and I have pretty crazy classmates. . .

Creative in the sense of finding something to cari pasal with client

Nah, that doesn't require creativity. You just thave to be difficult

Folks, I have been reading all your comments and let me give my point of view which is more neutral and unbiased.

I have been a CPA since 2000 and CA since 2008 and I have worked in Aust from 2004 to 2009.

On CA, the exam is more difficult & rigorous. The ICAA graduates are well known for their technical excellency, highly competent and skilled. They are always the 'hunting' targets by the employers.

On CPA, it's the other opposite. It has become worse from bad. The comment given by Grimm is very true and cannot be taken lightly. Many non accounting/finance graduates can gain the CPA Aus status easily. This is due to the intense commercialization effort to pass as many candidates as possible. This has greatly jeopardised the credibility of the CPA graduates and this problem has already existed for more than 10 years in Aust.

During my last 5 working years in Aust, most employers already "written off" the CPAs & only hire the CAs. As a result most CPAs in order to make themselves more marketable and competitive, they have to enrol for the CA exam. You can see that in their CV, they will put an additional line under the Qualification Section "Currently pursuing CA exam", without which it will make them being unattractive to the potential employers.

I can see this trend is already happening in M'sia eventhough not as bad as in Aust and the Big 4 in Msia still taking in CPA grad as long as it's recognised by MIA. However nobody knows what is going to happen to CPAs in the next 5-6 years in Msia, it could face the same situation in Aust or it might take longer to happen. Until it happens, it remains everyone's guess.

You sure form 1 student can pass it easily? It's not that easy as you think it is and it's not that hard too.

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Added on June 3, 2010, 9:39 pmLong before, CPA in Australia is more widely recognise in commercial than accounting firm. This had changed recentlyas big4 (and even medium and small firms) do hire CPA grad as well. I worked in Australia before and in an accounting firm. I got offer from both KPMG and EY eventhough i don't have CA> But i have to say that in order for you to advance to manager and higher level, you do required to have CA in your CV. Ofcourse there are exceptional cases. Same thing goes to Malaysia, you need to have professional papers (doesn't matter if it's CIMA, CPA, MICPA, etc) to advance to manager. Saying that, i still know some manager in big4 who advance to manager level who only have degree. CPA is started to get their recognition worldwide. I have friends went to Europe, USA and they said they are starting to accept CPA. Ppl start to realise that profesional paper is just a stepping stone for you to advance further. As long as you have these professional papers, the next to take into consideration is your experience.

This post has been edited by calcom21: Jun 3 2010, 09:39 PM

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Added on June 3, 2010, 9:39 pm

Long before, CPA in Australia is more widely recognise in commercial than accounting firm. This had changed recentlyas big4 (and even medium and small firms) do hire CPA grad as well. I worked in Australia before and in an accounting firm. I got offer from both KPMG and EY eventhough i don't have CA> But i have to say that in order for you to advance to manager and higher level, you do required to have CA in your CV. Ofcourse there are exceptional cases. Same thing goes to Malaysia, you need to have professional papers (doesn't matter if it's CIMA, CPA, MICPA, etc) to advance to manager. Saying that, i still know some manager in big4 who advance to manager level who only have degree. CPA is started to get their recognition worldwide. I have friends went to Europe, USA and they said they are starting to accept CPA. Ppl start to realise that profesional paper is just a stepping stone for you to advance further. As long as you have these professional papers, the next to take into consideration is your experience.[/quote]

Thankfully in Msia, the Big 4 are not so particular which qualification you hold, as long as it's recognised by MIA, it should be fine. I agree with you in order to advance to managerial level or higher in the Big 4 in Aust, a person must have CA. So it's still back to square, they require you to enrol for the CA. Meaning to say that with a degree or with CPA (Aus) or still pursuing CPA, a person still can join the Big 4 in Aust with 1 condition: must enrol & pass the CA . This is because they don't recognise CPA. I m speaking from past experience.

In Msia, it's a different case. An unqualified accountant still can become a manager or higher in a commercial firm or medium sized firm. I also agree on your claim that some managers in Big 4 is only degree holders. I can say that most of them are acc degree holders from local Uni (UM, UPM, UKM, UUM) which are also recognised for MIA membership. As I said, as long as it's recognised by MIA, it should be ok for the Msian Big 4.

Those with CPA (Aus) qualification who went to Europe or US, I m sure they're still required to sit for the local prof acc exam there. So it's still not considered recognised & they are hired based on their degrees. Recognition is where no exam is required like how MIA recognise the 11 acc bodies.

On the other hand, sometimes recognition has nothing to do with the quality or standard of a body. It's more for expansion, competition & protection reasons. Take for example US CPA is not recognised by MIA but it's recognised by ICPAS (S'pore). Another example is acc grad from S'pore (Nanyang & NUS), despite the fact that these 2 Uni set a very high standard in their exam, it's still not recognised by MIA & also ICPAS (S'pore) don't recognise MICPA despite the exam difficulty. Recently CIMA have an MRA with CPA (Aus), it's obvious the reason for this MRA is competition....to compete with ICAEW/ACCA in UK.

Having said all this, it's the experience that counts whether a person can become good accountant or not. There're also unqualified accountants holding high post in organisation, it's all because they have a strong desire to excel & learn.

This post has been edited by Selecao: Jun 7 2010, 11:54 AM

[quote=Selecao,Jun 7 2010, 11:51 AM]

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Added on June 3, 2010, 9:39 pm

Long before, CPA in Australia is more widely recognise in commercial than accounting firm. This had changed recentlyas big4 (and even medium and small firms) do hire CPA grad as well. I worked in Australia before and in an accounting firm. I got offer from both KPMG and EY eventhough i don't have CA> But i have to say that in order for you to advance to manager and higher level, you do required to have CA in your CV. Ofcourse there are exceptional cases. Same thing goes to Malaysia, you need to have professional papers (doesn't matter if it's CIMA, CPA, MICPA, etc) to advance to manager. Saying that, i still know some manager in big4 who advance to manager level who only have degree. CPA is started to get their recognition worldwide. I have friends went to Europe, USA and they said they are starting to accept CPA. Ppl start to realise that profesional paper is just a stepping stone for you to advance further. As long as you have these professional papers, the next to take into consideration is your experience.[/quote]

Thankfully in Msia, the Big 4 are not so particular which qualification you hold, as long as it's recognised by MIA, it should be fine. I agree with you in order to advance to managerial level or higher in the Big 4 in Aust, a person must have CA. So it's still back to square, they require you to enrol for the CA. Meaning to say that with a degree or with CPA (Aus) or still pursuing CPA, a person still can join the Big 4 in Aust with 1 condition: must enrol & pass the CA . This is because they don't recognise CPA. I m speaking from past experience.

In Msia, it's a different case. An unqualified accountant still can become a manager or higher in a commercial firm or medium sized firm. I also agree on your claim that some managers in Big 4 is only degree holders. I can say that most of them are acc degree holders from local Uni (UM, UPM, UKM, UUM) which are also recognised for MIA membership. As I said, as long as it's recognised by MIA, it should be ok for the Msian Big 4.

Those with CPA (Aus) qualification who went to Europe or US, I m sure they're still required to sit for the local prof acc exam there. So it's still not considered recognised & they are hired based on their degrees. Recognition is where no exam is required like how MIA recognise the 11 acc bodies.

On the other hand, sometimes recognition has nothing to do with the quality or standard of a body. It's more for expansion, competition & protection reasons. Take for example US CPA is not recognised by MIA but it's recognised by ICPAS (S'pore). Another example is acc grad from S'pore (Nanyang & NUS), despite the fact that these 2 Uni set a very high standard in their exam, it's still not recognised by MIA & also ICPAS (S'pore) don't recognise MICPA despite the exam difficulty. Recently CIMA have an MRA with CPA (Aus), it's obvious the reason for this MRA is competition....to compete with ICAEW/ACCA in UK.

Having said all this, it's the experience that counts whether a person can become good accountant or not. There're also unqualified accountants holding high post in organisation, it's all because they have a strong desire to excel & learn.

[/quote]

I agreed with you on most of your points except that you don't really have to enrol and pass CA. This is also based on past experiences. Like i said, unless you plan to move up to managerial level (which more likely required you to take and pass CA), you don't really have to if you choose not to. I'm not sure if it's in black and white in the contract stating you must have CA to promote to managerial level but it is obviously not stated in the LO when the appoint you as junior/senior or even AM. As for my friends with CPA working in European country, i'm not sure if they need to sit for their papers or not and can't comment further on that.

This tread is really funny.. and interesting...

I just completed my final CPA paper(well i haven actually gotten the results but I guess its fair to say that its a confirm credit at least... I personally think the CPA papers are freaking easy! If you're like a straight A student for SPM(need not be all A1s though), confirm you can pass all CPA papers at your first sitting!

We can never really compare CPA to other professional qualifications like ICAA, ICAEW, or even CFA... Its like comparing the land and the sky...

My suggestion to ppl who're above average and would like to differentiate themselves to the other average CPA Joe on the street is this: Go take Masters, or pursue other more difficult qualifications...
Because honestly, CPA is really FREAKING easy! I even wonder if its possible to actually fail any papers!!

Yes, agree.

Either you're bloody brilliant, or it's true lol.

Hi im actually having difficulties in deciding which professional paperz to take Between ACCA and CPA.....I just got a job in PwC ad they required me to take a professional paper...Well, since im already in a Big 4, im planning to just take CPA since itz easier coz as far as i know, Big 4 treat both the same since both iz recognised by MIA.....so should i just take CPA as i plan?[SIZE=7][COLOR=blue]

Depending on what you want. You want the knowledge and qualification, choose ACCA. You one a qualification only, then take CPA. CPA is easier.

Well I had a CPA consultation talk during my new company's orientation week. They actually revamped the structure of the course. Correct me if I am wrong, after completing whole course and fulfilling the 3 year experiences requirement, you are actually entitled for TWO membership- MICPA and CPA. You can check their website for more info.

What qualification you get doesn't matter in terms of employment. If your employer want to be picky, sure, someone get RM100-200 more at entry level. Is that a very big deal? You will even out and excel if you can perform better than the other guy.

The paper is just a paper.

When choosing a qualification, decide on:-

- which is faster to finish? (If you are UK grad, ACCA/ICAEW. If you are Aussie grad, CPA, if you are M'sian MICPA).

- which is suitable for your needs (you want to migrate? Then what is recognised in the country you want to go?)

- which is applicable to your work? (PA vs MA vs FA)

Knowledge and skills come from your own effort when you work, and your own capabilities and experience. CPA, ACCA, MICPA, ICAEW, etc etc is just a piece of paper to get you through the door.

Surely if you're aiming to progress higher in your career, don't take CPA. The standard of the CPA is ridiculously low & you will loose out completely to those ACCAs.
Be bold & brave enough to take the real & tough professional exam like ACCA, ICAEW, ICAA, MICPA etc. In the end of the day, the reward is in your hand if you pass the exam.

For CPA, no doubt it's a lot easier but in the end you will find that the whole program is deficient in every area & you're considered as 2nd grade if compared to ACCA, ICAEW or ICAA.

Well during the CPA consultation talk, the speaker did pointed out that there is open book test in the course. The reason why they implement such option is that, simply quite interesting, why take the hassle to memorize everything from top-to-toe while in real-life situation we will for sure pick our textbook up for references.

Furthermore, with the new restructured course that they have rolled-out, students are required to attend 3 or 4 focus class which emphasizes on developing soft and interpersonal skills. This is definitely a plus point as students will have to undergo workshop-like training that will eventually strengthen their interaction ability.

Last but not least, CPA affiliated is able to pick up ACCA qualification with only a single requirement that is to complete just the P1 paper. Well this had caused alot of frenzy among the existing ACCA student during the talk.

The difference between the "quality" of the professional bodies is purely perceived.

If you are seeking employment in the professional industry in Malaysia, the major and medium players don't care what paper you have, as long as you have paper and your degree CGPA is 2nd class upper.

If you are seeking employment overseas, your experience is what matters more. Your paper qualification only serves to get you recognised by that country's local accounting body. CPA members perform just as well as any other professional paper in the field.

I make this conclusion after working in the Malaysian accounting profession for the last 10 years, as well as overseeing the training and recruitment of employees in one of the Big 4. Those who are taking something other than CPA can continue to pat themselves on the back and look down on CPA grads, but at the end of the day, its performance that matters, the paper just gets you through the door. And these days, ANY paper can get you through the door.



This post has been edited by CKJMark: Sep 25 2010, 11:57 AM

couldn't agree more. It wholly depends on the performance of the individual, not the papers. Well, for instance if u've taken CPA, and felt that it isn't good enough, take additional professional designation instead. For instance, if u eventually got into a financial related position, take CFA, for accounting, there are tons of them. Even as an engineer who wants to get into the banking industry, he or she can opt to take CFA too. Nothing is too late. It's really up to the individual that matters. And of course, whether or not u get the job u wanted.

CPA is a qualification that can be bought easily by money meaning to say that as long as the students pay the annual subscription + exam fees, the qualification is theirs.
On the other hand, most CPA grads are incompetent & struggle in the work place & don't even know the basic stuff.
I agree that the individuals' performance is more important than the paper qualification but bear in mind all the top performers are either ACCA, ICAEW, ICAA or MICPA.

I know many CPA (Aust) holders and sad to say they are not up to mark.

Look at top partners in accounting firms. Look at corporate chiefs in Malaysia. Let me know if any of them are CPA (Aust).

I think its based on personal experience. I know a ACCA grad and MICPA grad that failed the IQ exam when applying to the bank I work in. Imagine that. Every pool of students have good apples and bad apples. Its not fair to generalise them in that way because you paint the whole bucket black with a few rotten ones.

The CFO in the bank I work in is a CPA grad, so is the COO. One is Malaysian, the other is an expat from Australia.

2 out of the 13 Tax partners in the professional firm I previously worked in are CPA grads, and are mentors for the CPA program. A fair number of the directors and senior managers are too. They happen to be graduates from Australia and Monash Malaysia grads.

My direct boss, the head of my organisation's group tax unit, is also a CPA grad.

Audit partners I can't really say because I don't work with them extensively, but I know two whom I know are CPA grads. They also happen to be MICPA grads as well because you need MICPA for an audit licence in Malaysia.

Me, I'm neither. I never finished my ACCA and I don't have a professional qualification beyond my degree from local uni and MIA, and yet I draw a five figure salary and count these people as my peers and mentors. I also earn more than most managers who are ACCA, MICPA, ICAEW or CPA grads in the Big 4. So take it from me when I tell you the professional paper is not an indication of your earning power.

=======

You don't need a professional paper if you want to do anything in Malaysia, but having it will help. In most cases, no one cares about where you got your paper as long as you have a paper. So what if you got yours the easy route? ACCA and MICPA students laugh at you because your paper was "easy"? Then you can "laugh" at them for doing things the hard way. Because at the end of the day, once you are hired, they are all on par.

Even if you have MICPA, you think you can work outside Malaysia? Singapore and Australia don't even recognise MICPA. Do you still think MICPA is a "good professional paper"? Better than CPA Australia that is recognised in HK, S'pore and Australia in addition to Malaysia?

Choose the qualification that helps you finish fastest, applicable to your job and is recognised where you want to work. If you are an Aussie grad, CPA is the sensible choice. If you are UK grad, then ACCA or ICEAW is the better choice. Malaysian grad would usually opt for MICPA (but if you are not in audit, take ACCA, easier to pass than MICPA i.m.h.o). Don't be bother about what people say about your qualification because employers will look beyond your paper and judge your experience as well. If you are a fresh grad, then your paper is just the benchmark to get you in, nothing more. And if you are a fresh grad applying for the Big 4, high chance you don't even have a professional paper, and they will pay for whichever you want to take depending on which you complete faster.

So if the Big 4 are not fussy about your professional qualification (audit being the exception in Malaysia), why should you? Take the one that gets you where you want to go, regardless of what other people tell you. The people talking down to you here won't be hiring you anyway.

You want learning and experience? Get a job and pay attention to what you do. The on-the-job experience will teach you far more than anything a textbook can.

And to the joker than laughed at CPA grads using textbooks / reference books when discussing with superiors, obviously you've not worked in a professional firm before. Unless you happen to be a "walking IFRS" everyone refers to standards and books when working. Even if you are a "walking IFRS" your boss will still want you to prove where what you say you know is written. It's called "exercising due care in your professional capacity."

Sure, MICPA is tough. But would you like to slog for years and still not pass by virtue of a quota system?
ACCA? not that hard. I did all but the last stage, it was almost identical to my university degree.

========

Like I said, I'm not here to pick a fight. But I do believe that there is a lot of bias here against CPA grads just because their exams is MCQ based. And having been in this industry for the last decade, I feel compelled to speak up on their behalf. Sure there are crappy CPA students, but there are a fair share of crappy ACCA, MICPA and ICAEW grads too. Knowing your stuff in the exams is very different from working. I don't think its right to talk down another person's qualification unless you work with them directly. Even then, the individual is the problem, not the qualification.

If you are an accounting student considering which qualification to take, and you want to be sure just call up the Big 4 HR and pose a general question to them, you will have your answer.

This post has been edited by CKJMark: Sep 28 2010, 10:55 PM

True. If you have already taken the degree, what can u do? Regret over it? Dang, just get another professional designation. It's never too late. It really doesn't matter what degree u have, because it's down to he individual itself on whether he or she would be successful. Stressing too much on academic excellence is not really the way my dear people... ACCA or whatever accounting degree ain't that hard anyway, and everyone had the ability to pass all of them, so there's no clear distinction on whether or threshold that separates the good and the excellent. Unless of course u're planning to take the actuarial science exam, now u're really different from the rest if u have more exams passes. But then again, whether u'll perform on the job although u have multiple exams passes, is a whole new question.

This post has been edited by Def: Sep 29 2010, 10:59 AM