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RTS Starcraft 2 V3.0, Anticipated Launching Date July 27, 2010

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evofantasy
post Jun 4 2010, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(Hitman66 @ Jun 4 2010, 05:36 AM)
Oh god it's coming guys


*
this is WIN
evofantasy
post Jun 4 2010, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(talexeh @ Jun 4 2010, 10:33 AM)
I LOL'ed at someone who expected buffs to Terran instead of nerfs. biggrin.gif

Can't be blamed, communities (especially Zerg) have been QQ'ing about Terran mech being undefeatable, though I'm not sure if this is the right way to go about it. sad.gif
*
finally some mech nerf!!! rclxms.gif
the only way for me to break through a terran sieged army is to mass stalkers with blink...

ps: i'm copying nazgul's only stalkers build and its really sick
evofantasy
post Jun 4 2010, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 4 2010, 12:21 PM)
siege mode is already as shitty as it is and nerf? hahahaha.
at least nerf it till 55, 50 from 60 is omgwtf lol


Added on June 4, 2010, 12:22 pm

they definitely arent undefeatable. hard, but not underfeatable :/

siege tank nerf and thor AA (lol useless mutas) may be justifiable, however i think 50 from 60 is too much


Added on June 4, 2010, 12:39 pm

for toss, i would typically have phoenix/voids to handle tanks. if i feel like goin warp heavy, i would have DT mixed in. though only a few. since DT CAN get in, regardless if they scan and kill them, having siege tank firing amongst his own army (or tanks) would already achieve my goal tongue.gif and of course stalkers blink-ins.
*
well there's usually 1 or 2 annoying ravens hovering around...
and u can see cloak from ripples on the ground >.<

stalkers u can either blink in and let them friendly fire...
or be mobile and harass/ go to the main...
the tank push are slightly slower...
but if they do contain u then its GG...

this nerf, me likey!!! rclxms.gif
evofantasy
post Jun 4 2010, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(HaVoC @ Jun 4 2010, 01:45 PM)
I'm sorry to say that Zerg players that are happy with this patch are clueless (Say to say, one of my fav SC1 caster as well).
60 to 50 has NO AFFECT at the ammount of hits for tanks to kill all zerg units except for Ultralisks, which most Zergs say is complete "bullshit" unit anyway.
To me the biggest change would be on TvT matchup, Tank wars are now 4 hits, and marauders cannot be killed in 2 hits anymore.
QQers will just QQ.
*
it does affect the damage on roach...
from 2 shot to 3 shot...
evofantasy
post Jun 4 2010, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(HaVoC @ Jun 4 2010, 02:01 PM)
At 3-1 upgrades and above? Yeah, sure that's really practical.
*
read the thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessag...topic_id=129070 posted by telexeh
evofantasy
post Jun 4 2010, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(Instant_noodle @ Jun 4 2010, 03:12 PM)
i was wondering:

why no one is trolling the long-wasted-and-abandoned WC3 that's now infested with dotards with this vid?
*
i already did wit kopitiam...
and i doubt they know wut is a rickroll sleep.gif"
evofantasy
post Jun 4 2010, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(fujkenasai @ Jun 4 2010, 03:19 PM)
Aiyo they really noob la.
We do the Obama version of rickroll and post it.
*
i'll give u the honor to post in w3 subforum >.<
evofantasy
post Jun 4 2010, 06:45 PM

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[quote=talexeh,Jun 4 2010, 05:52 PM]
TLO

[/spoiler]
*

[/quote]
In b4 you tak suka, you keluar! sweat.gif

Anyway, I've to admit that TLO is a very creative player & he might have really found the solution to counter Terran mech as Zerg but until we see it, I've to stick with the fact that Terran full mech is a very viable solution to shutting down Zerg expansions & subsequently, contain them into a corner.
*

[/quote]

actually TLO has been challenging people for quite some time to prove it wrong...
and he is playing terran as main for quite a lot of tourneys (not as good as his randoms from his results though)...
i remember some1 challenged sen before as well to prove to mech > zerg...
in other words, mech by an average player vs all out zerg by a pro player shows that mech itself is pretty much too strong...
mech is not unbeatable, but for a zerg player to go crazy micro + harass etc just to counter it there need so be some balance...
evofantasy
post Jun 5 2010, 10:29 PM

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QUOTE(HaVoC @ Jun 5 2010, 05:35 PM)
Was listening in to DjWheat's Weapon of Choice podcast last night (old episode), and kinda agree on his take the overall situation. I think Blizzard definitely knows that this is unfavorable to their customers, but the key is if they'll do what Activision (or Robert Kotick, more precisely ) wants or will they be able to convince them to listen.
*
activision is only the publisher...
the whole merger to me was just a way to stop EA from dominating the gaming industry...
evofantasy
post Jun 6 2010, 11:37 PM

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QUOTE(talexeh @ Jun 6 2010, 11:28 PM)
Lotsa players complained about the ballooning size of the beta folder. rolleyes.gif
*
/point to cheese
evofantasy
post Jun 7 2010, 10:43 PM

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playing buy keep getting owned by fast terran mech...
sigh my PvT sucks badly >.<
evofantasy
post Jun 8 2010, 12:02 AM

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QUOTE(Moonflown @ Jun 7 2010, 11:05 PM)
pheonix is a pretty decent counter to Seige tanks. Blink staker also
*
i won't have enuff time to get blink/ phoenix usually...
they will push out with marines and 2-3 tanks n its usually gg...
evofantasy
post Jun 8 2010, 08:11 AM

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been playing all of those fun fanmade games...
gosh so damn fun!
evofantasy
post Jun 8 2010, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 8 2010, 09:52 AM)
blink yes. provided ur goin pure stalkers and not pushing for stargates/robotics. the screenshot where i got promoted to diamond? that was a pvt fast mech match. i lost cuz my blink was about 1 min or so late, and my expo got took out and got camped. lost a couple stalkers in vain in an attempt to defend my expo too. that said, he lost his main and all his production buildings. but the end result of him winning cuz i had my army wiped save a few void rays and hes sealed off my entrance for any probe escape.

anyways as you can see, hes obviously favored + much higher rated than i am, as i only lost 2 pts and the end score was dead close. could be a reason why i got promoted in a defeat, who knows.


Added on June 8, 2010, 9:53 am

4-5 gate ur blink will be slowed and you'll be f***ed during transition (dont even give me fast expo will solve it crap lol)

3 gate is maxed. to have enough resources for non-stop stalker pump AND get fast blink.


Added on June 8, 2010, 9:54 am

a lot of them are damn buggy lol. well, i was hooked with overrun, but lol its damn bugged too
*
welll i've found the best way to counter it...
a bit micro heavy but i've managed to beat my opponent's mech push...
going 2-3 zealots + 2-3 stalkers with 1 sentry and an immortal...
then counter push when i've got 2 voidrays and 2 immortals...
all of these off 2 warpgates (adding the 3rd one when i got too much minerals)...

the phantom game was fun...
super epic to see 200/200 banelings...

there's also the TD with hero...
pretty fun TD since it involves tonnes of micro...
evofantasy
post Jun 8 2010, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 8 2010, 04:49 PM)
hard on resources honestly. and you're on a constant dillema on unit choices, by dillema, all of the choices are good ones, just hard to make on either one. rofl.

stalkers without blink would get hammered by tanks before they even close in, the sentry is almost useless minus the minor dmg reduction from shield generator, which, wouldnt be a factor from siege tank splashes.

immortals are definitely nice, however you gotta choose between immortal or blink as your gas definitely wont permit it. zealots are good (just to distract marine/rauder fire for ur stalkers to burn through the tanks) but thats only provided you got extra minerals, else ur gonna kill your stalker production. ur stalker count has to be at least on the same level or more than rauders as a rauder + marine volley = 1 stalker, worse when they got stim pack /sigh

simply put, the game i played was against a pretty well played terran with a damn fast mech push. still, i could've won against him however i went for voids instead of focusing on more stalkers + blink which could've easily gg'd him. my fault no doubt, though the point is that resources are incredibly limited when ur playing against a high lvl opponent. (how limited? i only managed to get out like 4 voids. and like 10+/- stalkers? in total. and my minerals NEVER PASS 300. gas even worse, max like 150-200 or so (per void))

tldr: if anything i've learned from the match ive had, voids = bad choice lol.


Added on June 8, 2010, 4:59 pm

shit weh i havent recorded down some of the notable replays and view protosc tourney replays

ugh maybe need to crack it or something to view? or just drag the replay file on sc2.exe? ><
*
from my experience, u gotta need more stalkers than marauders else its really gg...
i just feel stalkers are too weak up against marauders...

ya i chose a mixed unit compo for better synergy over focusing on one....
usually i encounter marines + 2 tanks pushes...
zealots would be the meat shield while healing with the marines...
sentries for the shield only actually lol (FF kinda useless vs mech)...
stalkers pick of the marines while the immortals shoot down the tanks...
while engage, i'll warp in some more units...

at the end of the engagement, usually i would loose all my zealots or 1-2 remaining...
my stalkers/ sentries count would drop as well...
and i would trink my opponent into going marauders heavy build...
this gives me the opening to make a timely push before he gets his tanks numbers up...
void rays would then deal with hard to reach enemies like the tanks...

day[9] uses HT harass -> fast expo -> mass stalkers with phoenixes to pickup the tanks (can see it from his daily vs jinro mech)...
tried it and it doesn't work for lots of opponents...

one of the opponent left the game "u are the most annoying opponent i've met" as i harassed with DTs and transitioned into void rays while still making DT harassments lol...

i think i realized my mistakes from my early games...
usually i skip my first zealot to get a faster stalker to poke around...
the best way to handle early pressure is in fact having early zealot backed by stalkers and 1-2 sentries...
and this early zealot could handle reaper harass with some micro till ur stalkers come out...

early on, i was avoiding void rays like plague but after a while, i find that they are really good...
u dun really have to go all in with the void rays or get any upgrades...
void rays + immortals deals serious damage >.<


Added on June 8, 2010, 5:39 pmoh ya i was even thor-marine rushed vs my group of stalkers...
i got owned pretty bad as i was not expecting that...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Jun 8 2010, 05:39 PM
evofantasy
post Jun 8 2010, 07:04 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 8 2010, 06:13 PM)
hahaohdesire.jpg

well ill give it a go when i got back, so ill post an update on any findings (or hopefully fraps biggrin.gif)


Added on June 8, 2010, 6:25 pm

hence why i said stalker count have to be on the same level if not more than marauders. however things can be a little more laxed if you have a couple of immortals, then again, marines rape immortals its not even funny (giving the 250 mineral equals  5 marines count)

also, mixed synergy in overall sense has a disadvantage over focused on 1 type of unit, why? you need to micro more. and given the latency advantage, thats totally not a good thing at all. for example, your zealot have to be in a different group, sentry prolly can compensate with tabbings just for the sake of shield, then stalker blink micro, then immortal FF'ing tanks etc. all that, vs a simple stalker blink micro which i find MUCH MUCH more effective. surely, the first few volleys you'd be microing shit when ur stalkers are being 1 shotted before blink can even happen, however as the engagement progresses and the T player loses out a few units, micro will be very possible and thats when you regain momentum. and ur stalker count will definitely be more overwhelming as 1) you saved out from building robotics 2) you saved the gas from sentry which you can upgrade weapons dmg 3) lets not even mention void rays. shit takes so much min/gas /facepalm

btw, any decent terran player wont be "tricked" into a rauder heavy build, especially when he comsat that stargate (which he did on mine) all they would do is just slowpush with marines/rauder mixed and tank siege mode. it used to be MUCH easier to use voids to kill off tanks back then, however with -1 range nerf, marines can reach them VERY easily, and i can assure you, they'd sink your void faster than ur void being able to get a charge off. learned this the hard way too :/ then again LOLPROMOTED

DTs, well, too situation if you ask me, and would only work on the first 'surprise' element especially against a good terran. he would either have 1) scan (seriously, myself included, almost all good terrans only MULE the first 1-2 50 energy and the rest are all spam scans) 2) missle turret proxy/mech push 3) lol f*** ravens

as for your zealot part, yes DO BUILD 1-2 zealot. learned that the hard way against good zerg players /facepalm
HOWEVER. against a good terran thats reapering you, FORGET it. ur zealot would get gg'ed so hard its not even funny. you either have to trade your zealot, or your probe while waiting for stalker to come out. best bet if ur fighting terrans, opt to either get MAX 1 zealot, or skip it entirely in favor of a faster chrono'ed first stalker.


Added on June 8, 2010, 6:34 pm

its not that easy to scout when ur opponent is a walling terran lol. then again, theres the observer option, but do realize, if you want council > blink AND robotics, you gotta choose. and most of the time, said choices can go either way for your game.
*
the good thing about toss is the ground units share the same upgrades...
usually i go for the +1 damage only...

actually when i do use stalkers, i dun really blink all of them at once...
the blinking AI for sc2 needs a fix still imho as at times it just screw up ur positioning...
i usually select them manually and blink...
and i usually position my army before engagement...
with a 5.6k dpi mouse, i should be abusing it rclxms.gif
about latency, even playing from home i honestly feel no delay (with the changes recently)...

oh ya, i proxy my stargate slightly further from my base...
i'm one of those toss players that would throw pylons around the map >.<
i never place my dark shrine in my base EVER...
though gotta agree void rays alone is very much weaker now...
which is why i usually go light on void rays (2-3) with a pretty strong ground army (zealots + stalkers + immortals)...

actually i think 1 zealot + 2 probes can really hold off a single reaper harass (usually one at that time)...
what i want would be to keep the reapers away from my mineral line and closer to my gateway...

lol i have a pretty good record against zerg so far...
early 2gate-zealots pressure (ala white-ra) with some micro is enuff to force them to overcommit...
those that early hatch is usually a free-win unless they are like idra (which so far none of them i've killed are)
if they dun die then, u would be ahead -> fast expansion -> collosus GG...

QUOTE(Moonflown @ Jun 8 2010, 05:49 PM)
Not expecting something can always be solved with effecting scouting. =)
*
hmmm he did wall in...
and i did sacrifice a probe to scout...
when i poke with my stalker, his thor is already on the way and with 5-6 scv repairing it while marines gunning down ur stalkers, kinda GG...
i did managed to kill off the thors but at the end of the day, i'm already too behind and was forced to being passive before being overrunned

__________________


another thing is, dun bother to do a toss-styled containment (pylons, forge, cannons) after a counter push...
i've been doing it for quite a number of games and its pretty 50-50...
its better to just macro more army and burst his ramp...


Added on June 8, 2010, 7:07 pmand shoulda mention this annoying opponent that keep QQ-ing i cheesed him when all i did was putting a 10-pylon 10-gate at my expansion choke in steppes of war from the moment he saw it till the game ends (of course he got raped by my zealot-sentry army +1/0 push)...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Jun 8 2010, 07:12 PM
evofantasy
post Jun 9 2010, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 9 2010, 01:03 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


aiyo, who said anything about blinking all of them at the same time? lol. never saw nazgul stalker micro? something like that

also, doesnt quite matter if you proxy ur stargate/dark shrine far when any decent terran will do what ive said lol. marine being the backbone of a terran and able to hit hair dont quite help either. scan is also well, the backbone of a terran as typical terrans will 13-15 ish orbital and thats damn early lol

and no, any good reaperer can out micro 1 zealot and 2 probes (lol), if he got speed upgrade, which is only, 50/50 after the buff, even a noob can do it >_<
takes a couple of volleys for a zealot to fall, and considering reaper's cheap cost, its totally not worth it at all.

as for zerg, lets just say if you cant take out his expo and he manages to survive AND go for mutalisks (mix up of either hydra and/or roach), you're pretty damn screwed lol. because at the end you're losing out on econ. unless you're terran and you mech his face off LOL which i will reply to that too in a bit
*
well from the way u say (group all into 1 and blink is just a button), its as though blinking the same time lol...

i dun go pure voidrays without a solid ground army...
and voidrays focus on the heavier units to get charged while the marines is handled by stalkers/ sentries...
once charged, 2 voidrays can fry any marine easily...
as u said, voidrays alone with the range nerf is pretty meh >.<

forcing him to micro -> stalling time for ur stalker...
often, i get my stalker out before losing my zealot and losing 1 probe at most (as opposed to 3 when i skipped the zealot)...
i'm kinda used to being aggressive with that zealot then pulling him back to force the reaper into chasing me...
nazgul did the same with only 1 probe (i'm not in his lvl so 2 probes >.<)...
about the speed upgrade, none of them actually researched it i guess as the 50 gas early on could be used for something else (rarely people commit to reapers nowadays)

depends on what i've scouted i might commit differently to my 2 gate approach...
its usually between 3 zealots at the start with a probe...
my goal is to make him commit his larvae into lings/ spinecrawlers even if i dun destroy his expansion (there's games where i just run my zealots into his queen/ mineral line ignoring the expansion) making him behind...
and depending on his current defense, i would go for his queen or the mineral line straight or his expansion (if he choose to offer it to me for free)...
even if he go mutas after surviving, i would have my stalkers to counter that (after all a robo bay means observer)...
usually when my +1 finishes and my having 2 collosi, i'll push out (depending on base location as well on waiting the 3rd one)
evofantasy
post Jun 9 2010, 02:16 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 9 2010, 02:37 AM)
lol at the vid you link with sen vs prime hannibal.

i mean, hilarity from the Chinese commentators going on sc2 in Chinese terms (rofl "ji e sha muo" blistering sands) aside, sen lost a 200 pop game due to a mech push? and HAHAOHWOWTANKS BEING TANKS.

/inb4mechisundefeatableQQ


Added on June 9, 2010, 2:50 am

dun tell me you have 9 stalkers and ur gonna have ctrl 1-9 binded? what if you have more than 9 stalkers? :/
kinda common sense dei

and no one mentioned about going pure rays. thats the dumbest thing one can do. sure, you can prolly cheese some noobs under silver/gold or someshit, however id doubt it'd pass anything above gold/plat. you're confirmed to be scouted lol. and dont gimme the proxy stargate shit. if you dont have army sighted, people wont hesitate to just roll you over lol.
and note this keyword: "once charged"
in a heat of battle against a mech pushed stim pack researched marine, or even viking/turret proxy terran when he knows ur having rays, id really dare you to try lol.

thing is, you arent really forcing much when hes just right clicking + s lol. noobs maybe yeah, non noob reaper just lol at you trading (assuming your stalker comes out and KILLS his reaper(s) ) zealot and/or probe(s) for his reaper(s). with one simple fact: reaper move speed is just too fast compared to a zealot even without speed upgraded. now, if you're talking about zerglings, that'd be another story as zerg do have creep, and EVEN THEN, reaper could still win due to 1) zergling low hp 2) reaper's speed can still match zerglings on creep

heres the thing though with zerg fast expo, most, if not all maps have the natural expo/main placed conveniently for zerg to just place their spine in range of the entrance, using zerglings/queen to block. look at sen's helion counter LOL
then again, he pro so heh.

oh and mutas in most way > stalkers. why i say that? he got the freedom to resource harass you lol. stalkers need time to react/warp in. and dont forget that stupid glaive bounce lol. on a direct straight encounter, muta in equal number as stalkers is just slightly disadvantaged, which zerg can easily solve by mixing in roach/hydras, or hell, even zergling if he wanna commit more to mutas freeing gas usage

the main key is still zerg having econ advantage should you fail to take it out or at least cripple him enough so it wouldnt matter (killing his workers or force him to overcommit) which is hard to come by against good zergs
*
as i've said, i only started my void ray production after i got a sizable ground force...
that's about 50pop worth of ground army...
the void ray is just to supplement my ground army due to their mobility especially when u are going on his ramp...

i dun find reapers that fast compared to a zealot if it is not upgraded...
when my zealot runs at him, he would need kite...
then when u see him kiting, just pull back ur zealot...
this would stall enuff time for ur stalker especially when u can threaten a surround with ur probe...

usually when u go a 10-pylon-gate, ur opponent would not have a spinecrawler up in time...
10-gate harass is significantly faster than that of a helion...
from that harass, u can transition into a 4gate (like white-ra) or 3gate-robo if u see him going to roaches...
his muta harass doesn't matter as he overcommited his larvae and resources...
u are already in the lead usually unless he is sen...
usually when ur harass worked, u can make a fast expansion since the zerg is the passive one now...
evofantasy
post Jun 9 2010, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 9 2010, 02:23 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


holy shit lol.


Added on June 9, 2010, 2:27 pm

your zealot pull back, he pew pew lo. LOL
"not that fast", but fast enough to have ur zealot meet his makers lol.
oh and if you surround with ur probe, he wins by econ disrupting you. his reaper served its purpose.

your impression of zerg is that they are all going to be overcommiting from your 10 gate harass and they will all go passive without even bothered to have overlord/zergling scouting to ward off any expansions. i mean, really, all the zerg players you play are like that? lol cuz i dont encounter them too often, maybe its this stupid league im placed in  sad.gif
*
well reaper need to stop to shoot...
with my latency, i think i can do it...

even if they scout my expansion at my natural, what can they do about it?
as long as u can avoid bust-ins and keep up game up still, nothing much a zerg can do about it...
this is the advantage of a 10-gate build vs zerg...
just that if he go fast roach, then u gotta pull back fast and stick to 1 base...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Jun 9 2010, 03:01 PM
evofantasy
post Jun 9 2010, 05:12 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 9 2010, 03:15 PM)
their stop/shoot is instant lol. body rotation also instant.

and i dont know, zerg having an early expo while ur just starting up one? what can they do about it? i dunno destroy it? lol.

he can roach, hydra. lol, even muta would be formidable even against stalkers
*
having early expansion with no income to make use of it...
u gotta populate ur expansion first for it to be of great eco advantage...

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