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 Dog food, Discussion of dog food type/brand

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Fione Yong
post Dec 27 2011, 10:41 PM

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Hi all,

I am new here, just read this topic and found it's interesting, learn lots here. I just adopt a new buddy a week ago, mix maltese, and she is currently 3 months age. My friend told me to feed her with Royal Canin which she have a good result on her Poodle. The result taking Royal Canin on my buddy is quite good, her poo is quite solid, not much and not smelly compare with BORCH (Sample from pet shop) which is smelly, soft and more poo, not sure with the fur yet as this is still a short time to judge. But recently, i found that she like to scratch her body, and keep biting her paw, but when i search on the place she bites/scratchs, i can't find anything(red dots, fleas, or any sign), is that a sign of allergic? kindly advise..

Between, i haven't seen anyone here discuss on Royal Canin kibbles, let me show the ingredient and please help on this, is this also cause of my buddy scratching / biting her paw?..

Mini Junior - Adult Weight 1-10kg

INGREDIENT
dehydrated poultry meat, rice, animal fats, vegetable protein isolate*, maize, beet pulp, maize flour, hydrolysed animal proteins, maize gluten, soya oil, fish oil, minerals, fructo-oligo-saccharides, hydrolysed yeast (source of manno-oligo-saccharides), marigold extract (source of lutein).

ADDITIVES (per kg)
Nutritional additives: Vitamin A: 17300IU, Vitamin D3: 1000IU, E1 (Iron): 43mg, E2 (lodine): 3.4mg, E4 (copper): 8mg, E5 (Manganese): 56mg, E6 (Zinc): 186mg, E8 (Selenium): 0.07mg,
Technological additives: Pentasodium triphosphate: 2g-Preservatives-antioxidants

ANALYTICAL CONSTITUENTS
Protein: 31%
Fat Content: 20%
Crude Ash: 6.8%
Crude Fibres: 1.4%
Manno-oligo-saccharides: 0.5g/kg
Fructo-oligo-saccharides: 3.4g/kg
Fione Yong
post Dec 28 2011, 09:05 PM

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@adrian
i heard that better don't feed the puppy the high protein kibble if they are not active (means those train dogs, security dogs) because this will cause a sickness on them in future, right? So between the kibbles you intro, which one is hyppoallergenic dog food? or maybe any other brand you may advise for my buddy? her previous owner feed her ANF kibble, and i assume this Royal Canine was a good kibble as the price about RM90(east m'sia) for a pack for 3 KG..
@rhika
thanks rhika for the useful link, it's help me on knowing more about the actual % protein & other ingredient should have in a quality kibble. The time i buy Royal Canine, i dint even know anything about it, just my friend introduce me it's a super great product, so i just direct buy..only i found my buddy keep scratching and biting, i worried, so do research..and yes, she do scratch her ear sometimes as well but i dint smell anything..hm, what brand would you advise for my buddy?

P/S: if can, the poos & pees of my puppy wont smell badly after taking the new kibbls, as she sleep with me, little bit smell is still fine for me..
Fione Yong
post Dec 28 2011, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(kayvan @ Dec 28 2011, 09:11 PM)
Well I would have; I was considering between Orijen, EVO or Solid Gold. But solid gold had fillers So I dopped it... So First choice was Evo and 2nd Orijen coz Evo has 47% protein and 21% carbs unlike Orijen 42% protein and 30 carbs, but as usual Pet Lovers run out of stock really fast :| So yes I will switch to Evo the next time when my beagle finishes this Orijen brand.... how's urs with Evo...??


Added on December 28, 2011, 9:14 pm

but Royal Canin has more carbs, is that good for dogs. The carbs level is higher than protein...
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@adrian
Please don't get my reply wrong, I apologize if i bring u to another meaning..i dint mean either which one is good or bad, i just confuse btwn those ingredients..i did mention earlier, i am still new, i need help on choosing better kibble for my buddy..i am a pet lover, i also want her to be healthy, and wish i could give her whatever good for her..and, may i know what is 'carb'?
Fione Yong
post Jan 2 2012, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(kayvan @ Dec 28 2011, 11:28 PM)
Certainly not. Dont worry abt that. smile.gif I'm new to this having a pet and my beagle is the first pet I ever had. So I surveyed online about which pet food it best for dogs been giving him all that supermarket brands like Pedigree, Alpo & dont knw whatelse... so I notice him shedding hair, eating quite frequently and potty also like quite a a lot. Finally I found this site http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/brand/ that tells u which food is best for dogs, what are the level of protein, fats & carbs (Carbohydrate). At the site they'll have the ingredients listed and those with red are likely to be fillers which are known as fillers. How u know they are fillers? When u add water they tend to expand, like a sponge e.g Corn, beet root pulp, ... Pedigree is one of them which has loads of fillers which is surely unhealthy. Read this link on fillers http://www.aplusfrr.com/define-fillers.php

Btw dogs dont require carbs http://rawfed.com/myths/carbs.html

" A rather ironic result has resulted in rare cases, though, where toxins in unnecessary fillers have led to massive recalls at huge expense to the pet food companies. Two recent examples are aflatoxin on corn in the 2006 Diamond Pet Food Recall and melamine on wheat gluten and rice protein concentrate, or rice gluten, fillers in the 2007 Menu Foods Pet Food Recall that included Hill's, Royal Canin, Natural Balance, Iams, Eukanuba, Purina, and Nutro brands (among others)."

Orijen which I have just started for my beagle has 42% protein but Evo is better it has 47% protein. Of course these brands arent cheap, so what I do see, I give him a handful of his Puppy food with lotsa vegetable like carrot. Carrots are healthy snack as well... or boil some chicken wings, chicken breast or even keel, it gives some flavour when they eat their boring food

Hope this had helped u some how
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yes, you are right, since last time, i tot the 'famous' brand sell at Supermarket was good for them, that why my mind still stuck on it until i found this forum, my puppies also facing the same problem as yours, they keep shedding hair and potty also quite a a lot, but the one different with you, they dont want to eat that kibbles unless they are really hungry, only eat a bit..what i do was change their meal type everyday with chicken breast rice..and i notice they love the rice than the pedigree kibbles..he he he
recently i have another new buddy with me, and only that i get closer on thier food as well, i try get advise from 1 of my friends, and she told me to feed RC which on her, that was the best for her girl..Anyhow, thanks alots for the info and the link, it's useful and does help on me get little closer on their health..


QUOTE(adriankhoo153 @ Dec 29 2011, 10:02 AM)
Hmm.. since when i reply u? Lol.. Not me, certainly not me..
First and foremost, i am not an expert in dogfood but just that i happen to research quite a bit in dog food. Lets talk bout high protein. High protein should be avoided for dogs with kidney disease. For higher protein food, you should feed lesser for your dog. Example 1.5cup instead of usual 2cup. Make sure he/she have a good exersice too. Most of the dog or puppy could tolerate high protein and rest assured most of the good quality kibbles meet AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages.In other words, any dog food suitable for “all life stages” is also suitable for puppies, too. Jes becareful for the calsium ratio for LBD. Since yours breed is small/medium size, you shouldnt worry much. 

For hyppoallergic dog food, there is a few good brand in the market. I would suggest California Natural or Acana Lamb and apple fomula. Both are good kibbles. If you got money to burn, then you may also try Evo Herring, Acana Pasifica or Orijen Six Fishes which is using fish as their main ingredient and it's grain free. Some dog are also allergic to grain hence, it's good to feed grain free dog food. Anyway, it's very hard to say if your dog is food allergic or enviroment allergic. He might have flea or ticks, allergic to grass, dermatitis and many more. Check with your vet and if it's confirm food allergic, try elimination game. Stop feeding any treat etc and only feed him your current dog food. If withing a week, he is still scratch here and there, try switching to other food as mention above. Remember to gradually introducing the new food. FYI, my dog is also allergic and i still havent found the answer yet. I am feeding Evo turkey and chicken and will change to Acana Pacifisca one finish my 13.5kg bag of food. I am giving him Evo herring treat bar as a treat. 

ANF in fact i will said it's a better kibbles than Royal Canin. Royal Canin is too high promoted by Vet and same goes to Science Plan etc. Believe me, it's bad food especially those D/D diet, F/D or whatever Diet food. Learn to read dog food label. The first 4 ingredient is the major one which at least 2 ingredient from here need to contain meat. Either Chicken, turkey, lamb, duck, fish etc. Also find those kibbles that contain chelated mineral or probiotic for better absorbtion of mineral.

Carb refering to carbohydrates. To make it simple, the lower the better. In fact, zero is required in dog food. Dog dont need barley, corn, wheat or watever it is. But then u will ask, then why manufacturer put barley or what into my dog food if it's not required? Well simple. When putting carb food into it, it will raise the level of protein and fat to make you believe that this dog food contain more meat.  sweat.gif When choosing dog food, it makes good sense to favor products lower in carbohydrates.

Do note that some article are taken from dogfoodadvisor.
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Oopps, sorry, i reply with wrong name, haha..
Hm, higher protein should feed lesser? but i have tried to feed lesser to her, but she seems dont feel enough, keep asking for more and still she can finish whatever i gave to her..so, how am i gonna know that the protein is high enough and she is eat enough?..
I am trying to search for those brand you intro here, unfortunately, this place is small, and i coudnt find the brand you intro.. smile.gif


Added on January 2, 2012, 11:49 am
QUOTE(rhika @ Dec 29 2011, 10:49 AM)
@ fione
If keep scratching may be a few reasons.
1) food not ngam so got itchy / skin problems
2) could be fungus or ear mites etc, good to take to vet for checkup. If not sakit then must be food
3) Check body got ants or anything hiding in fur or not.. sometimes those ants crawl up when they sleeping etc.
4) who knows, maybe bored or don't like / not used to wearing collar

For food, you can also try to get food samples or buy the smallest pack like 1.5kg to try on your girl, sometimes they can be choosy.

Or you can try go for BARF which is raw food, just google, can find a lot lot lot of pages to read. Better to feed this after your girl got all her vaccinations and deworm though.

Don't worry so much =3 If you read my earlier posts, I started with eukanuba *coughcough* Now I switched my boy to Avoderm Chicken :- http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-rev...l-dog-food-dry/
I like most of the ingredients on it even though its quite low on meat content. So to supplment, I feed my boy with BARF on weekends so he can get a balanced diet and also not so boring everytime eat kibble only. But please note, don't mix feeding barf/other food with kibble as the rate of digestion is different.
i think her scratch are mostly due to fungus and flea, i found few 'bloody fat dot' at her body, now trying on some fleas control for her as well..thanks alots for the information.. smile.gif


Added on January 2, 2012, 12:14 pmAlthough i cant find those brand intro by you guys here, due to my RC going finish soon, i have to make decision on the brand that currently available at market here, and i have choose the brand of Nutram, which i personally(on basic knowledge) think the ingredient and protein are quite ok, lets look into it and discuss..

NUTRAM Mini-Bite Puppy

INGREDIENT
Chicken Meal, Dehydrated Whole Potato, Chicken Fat(preserved with Vitamin E), Pea Fiber, Salmon Meal, Flaxseed, Fish Oil, Natural Flavors, Dicalcium Phosphate, Psyllium Fiber, Dried Whole Eggs, Potassium Chloride Salt, Lecithin, Vitamin E, Choline Chloride, Chicory Root(a source of FOS), Kelp Meal, Vitamin C, Yucca Schidigera, Marigold Extract(a source of lutein), Mannanoligosacchardies (MOS), Sodium Tripolyphosphate, Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin A, Vitamin D3, Vitamin K(menadione), Vitamin B12, Riboflavin, Niacin, Dicalcium pantothenate, Pyridoxinje hydrochloride, Thiamine mononitrate, Folid Acid, Biotin, Ferrous Sulphate, Iron Proteinate, Manganese proteinate, Zinc Sulphate, Copper Sulphate, Copper proteinate, Calcium iodate, Cobalt Proteinate, Beta Carotene, Sodium Selenite.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude Protein min. 30.0%
Crude Fat min. 19.0%
Crude Fiber max. 3.0%
Crude Ash max. 7.25%
Moisture max. 10.0%
Calcium min. 1.2%
Phosphorous min. 1.0%
Sodium min. 0.38%
Copper min. 20mg/kg
Iron min. 285mg/kg
Zinc min. 220mg/kg
Vitamin A min. 12000IU/kg
Vitamin D min. 1200IU/kg
Vitamin E min. 100IU/kg
Vitamin B6 min. 4.25mg/kg
Linoleic Acid min. 3.2%
(Omega-6)
Linolenic Acid min. 0.58%
(Omega-3)*
Docosahexaenoic Acid
(DHA)* min. 0.10%
Metabolizable Energy 3740kcal/kg

This post has been edited by Fione Yong: Jan 2 2012, 12:38 PM
Fione Yong
post Jan 2 2012, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(kayvan @ Jan 2 2012, 01:02 PM)
I just remembered abt ya buddy scratching. Did u check if ya buddy ya dandruff, which can be controlled using medicated shampoo and showers regularly, at least once every week, bring ya buddy to the vet, our u could check yaself at home. They are just like humans, u'll see some kinda debris on the hair itself, if that it so ask ya vet which shampoo is best to consume. That might also help. smile.gif
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Definately not the dandruff, i dint saw anything flow from her fur..jz many fat bloody dot (flea)..i am trying some flea shampoo and the spray, hopefully this useful for her..this morning, i found many bloody hide behind her cage..at the corner of the floor and the walls..nyucks..it's scary man....
Fione Yong
post Jan 2 2012, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(kayvan @ Jan 2 2012, 03:25 PM)
May I suggest u to use tea tree oil after shower, only one drop. Then mop ya floor using eucalyptus oil (minyak kayu putih) dilute it in a bottle with spray, then spray at the cage and wherever necesary, u may also use that solution Frontline sold at major pet stores, they have spray form too. Get that & use it for at least 3mth... it will go away... Hope ya buddy feels better soon...
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Tea tree oil? what is it? it's kind of serum or what? the drop was anywhr is it? or whr it suppose to drop? and normally will the petshop sell eucalyptus oil? sorry asking so much, as i not sure on this..hehe..ya, hope she will be fine soon, pity saw her keep scratching..
Fione Yong
post Jan 2 2012, 04:15 PM

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QUOTE(kayvan @ Jan 2 2012, 04:08 PM)
No no both tea tree oil & eucalyptus oil (minyak kayu putih) u can get it from Pharmacies like Guardian or watson. Its cheap only, but dont put too much u know.

pour one or two drops of Tea Tree Oil on your hand, maximum of 4drops, then rub it on the whole body of ya buddy. Eucalyptus oil, pour in ya floor cleaner & mop the floor. If there is bedding use it to spray on the bedding and put it under hot sun. Remember, ticks & fleas hate heat, all stages of fleas & ticks can be destroyed in maximum heat.

Frontline[cool.gif brand from petstore, for ticks & fleas.
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hm, ok..i will try to search both of that at pharmacies, really thanks alots..let you know the result when i try it.. biggrin.gif


Added on January 2, 2012, 4:17 pm@kayvan
do you have any comments on the kibbles that i write? i meant the brand of Nutram..

This post has been edited by Fione Yong: Jan 2 2012, 04:17 PM
Fione Yong
post Jan 3 2012, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(rhika @ Jan 3 2012, 11:17 AM)
fione >>
I use eucalyptus oil mix with water and spray everywhere, including some on the back of the neck of my boy. He don't have fleas etc, and I don't want him to start, plus I love the smell of eucalyptus.
Some of the pharmacies carry few brands, usually their box is green.

Nutram looks alright in the anaylsis =)

kayvan >>
you can freeze the raw bones first before giving to your beagle, so the blood will create a halloween canvas =D
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watson n guardian here said the eucalyptus oil is out oc stock, bt the packing was red white o..anyway, i still,manage to buy the tea tree oil..also green colour pack..he h


Added on January 3, 2012, 3:39 pm
QUOTE(rhika @ Jan 3 2012, 11:17 AM)
fione >>
I use eucalyptus oil mix with water and spray everywhere, including some on the back of the neck of my boy. He don't have fleas etc, and I don't want him to start, plus I love the smell of eucalyptus.
Some of the pharmacies carry few brands, usually their box is green.

Nutram looks alright in the anaylsis =)

kayvan >>
you can freeze the raw bones first before giving to your beagle, so the blood will create a halloween canvas =D
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This post has been edited by Fione Yong: Jan 3 2012, 03:39 PM
Fione Yong
post Jan 4 2012, 12:42 PM

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[quote=kayvan,Jan 3 2012, 10:52 PM]
[quote=Fione Yong,Jan 3 2012, 01:57 PM]
watson n guardian here said the eucalyptus oil is out oc stock, bt the packing was red white o..anyway, i still,manage to buy the tea tree oil..also green colour pack..he h

Then try get it from Giant or so, tesco maybe... or any malay medicine shop they will surely have it. Its a massage oil actuallty, if u cant find that, try tea tree oil... Thats also good. Hope he recovers real soon smile.gif

rhika >>> i will try that, but I think I have a vegan Beagle... Hahaha... wwho loves vege better than anything on earth tongue.gif
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[/quote]

ya, i just bought the tea tree oil, ll try on her tonight..he he..thanks anyway, hm, yesterday night, i touch her body, i feel like i m touching the sAnd..lot of small light yellow dot behind her neck..do u know what happen? can feel it obviously..


Added on January 4, 2012, 12:44 pm[quote=rhika,Jan 4 2012, 10:40 AM]
fione >>
Where are you located ? I spotted 3-4 brands at the Caring pharmacy in PJs =) Couple of Watson and Guardian don't have stock though.

kayvan >>
vegan beagle XD! my boy loves apples, carrots and avocado ~
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[/quote]

I at miri, sarawak..

This post has been edited by Fione Yong: Jan 4 2012, 12:44 PM
Fione Yong
post Jan 7 2012, 04:18 PM

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i have try my girl with tea tree oil..and good news, i dint see any fleas & fungus on her now..thanks for those giving me advise.. biggrin.gif

But the bad news, she still scratching , and getting worst (more and more water dot prompt out)..so i bring her to vet yesterday, they said it's bacterial cause,, so they give her some medicine and shampoo..hope she will be fine soon..

Between, i have fully switch her food from RC to Nutram..At the moment (3 days), i think it's quite ok, as her poos and pees not so smelly (acceptable)..i also did saw orijin sell at vet clinic, it's quite pricey, RM75 for 2.5 kg..so, i need advise can i give her mix origin & Nutram or jz fix on 1 is enough?..

This post has been edited by Fione Yong: Jan 7 2012, 04:19 PM
Fione Yong
post Jan 8 2012, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(kayvan @ Jan 8 2012, 01:26 AM)
She'll be ok dont worry. I dont think its advisable to mix to diff brands, coz u never know how much protein, carbs & fat u may be feeding ya buddy. U may switch her to Fish base food, use medicated shampoo, brush often, practice hygiene and whatever u can think of that will help ya buddy be safe from bacteria. Btw orijen is sold at RM 61 at PetLovers, i have no idea why some pet store sell it for so expensive, btw some stores sell bigger packaging for a cheaper price. Which part of sarawak do u live? are there many pet stores?
thanks kayvan..hm, i stay miri, sarawak..i been survey few pet shop, but mostly brand they carry is the commons one, etc, pedegree, alpo, borsh, my dear dog, royal canin, others brand from korean which the packing wording also korean and Nutram which i did post the ingredient at this forum before..i saw this Orijin at vet clinic when i bring my girl to check up..still thinking should i change her to better protein or just in this Nutram is fine..This brand got lots of packing, even for those sensitive skin & allergy care, but mine one was grain free one..the only one not good is the grain free packing only got 1 size - 1.5kg..no bigger pack..that what me headached.. (http://www.nutram.com/products/index_minibite_brand_DOG_premium_food.html - puppy).

Between, what is the meaning of AAFCO? i see it at the bottom of ingredient..

Nutram: http://www.nutram.com/products/index_nutra...emium_food.html
Fione Yong
post Jan 8 2012, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(kayvan @ Jan 8 2012, 08:59 PM)

AAFCO is a voluntary association that makes sure that pet food is safe to be consumed and make sure the food has been prepared according to the regulation being set by AAFCO. Here's a link http://www.aafco.org/ by the way, not all pet food are approved by AAFCO.
Some food that are approved by AAFCO is Acana, Orijen, EVO, Royal Canin, AVODerm but even so, each brand only selected kibbles are approved by AAFCO.
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ok..so if for those not been approved food safe for our furkid also?

 

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