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 Dog food, Discussion of dog food type/brand

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Divas
post Jan 31 2011, 12:08 AM

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QUOTE(muffdiver @ Jan 30 2011, 11:05 PM)
Hi Everyone,

I just started reading this thread. I've been feeding my GF's 5 year old poodle with Blackwoods for a few months now. Starting with Lamb and now Salmon. Previously, it was some generic brand I didn't quite remember. Anyway, he seems to like the food better and his poo is not soft & smelly anymore (which is good since I had to clean his room everytime). So is Blackwood really that bad? I would definitely change it since it cost me RM 60 for the Salmon.

For shampoo, I've been using something called Ferbes. It's made in Korea and does come highly recommended by some relatives of mine. It keep him nice smelling for a few days. I've heard that Yu is better in scent though but quite expensive.

Would really appreciate some guidance. Don't want to be blamed by my GF for mistreating her poodle. Sigh...
*
I didn't know Blackwood had a Salmon? the Lamb i know, but i thought their only fish based food was 'Catfish' (and even then it contains chicken.
Blackwood isn't the WORST food you can feed and technically the majority of its ingredients are fine. What i dislike about them is how they have a lot of fillers in and their 'hypoallergenic' formulas/sensitive formulas contain chicken products (in my opinion, if it is a lamb based food it should have only lamb, and a fish based food only fish, if there is a mix of meats it should be clearly stated not hidden in the ingredients which most companies assume most people won't read). Also from clearing out anal glads during grooming sessions, the expression from a dog eating Blackwood is typically similar to that or much much lower grade foods (the only 2 times i have wrongly guessed that a dog was eating Pedigree or Alpo from anal glad expression, they were both on Blackwood). Although anal glads don't always give you a lot of information about how decent a food is, when a secretion is supposed to be quite watery and light in color with a foul but tolerable smell, comes out almost tar black and stinking of old metal and really really old trash, i would say there is something wrong.
If your dog is doing well on Blackwood i would not ask you to change. I am extra picky with the company as (like a number of other dog food producers) they have never really shown any indication of anything other than money motivation (IMHO) which i don't like from someone i am trusting with such a necessary part of my dog's life and health.
Also i find that there are plenty of much better brands out there for a similar price. You could have a look around at your local pet store and see what else is available.

As far as shampoo goes, i never ever recommend anything that leaves an unnatural fragrance. A shampoo is supposed to clean your dog's coat and skin not perfume it. Natural is always better. If you want your dog to have a fragrance, there are hundreds of perfumes with many different fragrances out there that are very reasonably priced. I already commented on Yu today, hopefully someone who has tried it will notice this thread and be able to comment further. If not i will find a suitable candidate and take the plunge myself :S.
Hope that helps smile.gif.
Calvin871989
post Jan 31 2011, 12:26 AM

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thanks divas.

im current feeding my 2 month plus beagle eukanuba. for now, no problems at all when i feed him eukanuba for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

but yesterday i only fed him during breakfast and dinner. i made him skipped his lunch. reason so is because i was testing to see how hungry he will be for dinner.

i usually scoop up the food 8 tablespoon. some may think its too little or maybe a lot but i find it just nice enough.

only big major problem im having now is, he pees and poo everywhere in my room. i really dont know how to toilet train him. is there anything selling at the pet store that can really help me with the pee and poo ?

sorry for the off topic.

thanks
Divas
post Jan 31 2011, 10:03 AM

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QUOTE(Calvin871989 @ Jan 31 2011, 12:26 AM)
thanks divas.

im current feeding my 2 month plus beagle eukanuba. for now, no problems at all when i feed him eukanuba for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

but yesterday i only fed him during breakfast and dinner. i made him skipped his lunch. reason so is because i was testing to see how hungry he will be for dinner.

i usually scoop up the food 8 tablespoon. some may think its too little or maybe a lot but i find it just nice enough.

only big major problem im having now is, he pees and poo everywhere in my room. i really dont know how to toilet train him. is there anything selling at the pet store that can really help me with the pee and poo ?

sorry for the off topic.

thanks
*
The best way to toilet train a dog is with consistency and patience. There are many products that claim to stop dogs pooing/peeing in the wrong place or encourage them to pee/poo in the right place but i don't think they work and definitely not as well as just doing really good training.
There are many many many websites all over the internet that take you step by step though toilet training but the basic steps are

1. Confine him to an area where he can't eliminate in the wrong place (eg a bathroom/pen) while you aren't in the same room.
2. When he is roaming free, watch him (keep one eye out) for signs that he is about to do something (usually a dog will become very animated, start sniffing the floor, but each dog is different so you have to figure out what your dog's 'tell' is).
3. Quickly move him to the correct pee/poo spot before he has a chance to do his business. The first few times you do this he will probably hold his pee/poo in. Keep a close eye on him for a while and move him back again as soon as he shows any signs.
4. Praise him lightly for being in the right place, if he pees/poos in the right place, throw a party, lots of love and attention.
5. If you don't catch him in the act don't scold him. In some cases it helps to scold the poo/pee as they then realize that you don't like the poo/pee in that place. Clean up the mess and take the poo/pee soaked tissue to the right pee place and praise the poo/pee.
6. Clean any areas where he has an accident with vinegar or a pet odor remover so he isn't encouraged to 're-offend' due to the lingering scent.

The most important thing is to be consistent, the more you can watch him and the more often you can relocate him before an accident (and therefore the less accidents he has in the wrong place) the faster he will figure it out. Remember also that at 2months old he will have quite low bladder/bowel control so quite often when he has to go he has to go. As he grows older and bigger he will have more control and won't pee/poo so much (although when he does, it will be bigger biggrin.gif).

Hope that helps.



suann821
post Jan 31 2011, 03:28 PM

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has anyone got about to try fish4dogs yet? bailey's on her second 1.5kg pack now. i think she's doing super but not sure if it's too early and soon to tell? would like to hear what all of you have to say on the brand. smile.gif smile.gif
muffdiver
post Jan 31 2011, 03:49 PM

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QUOTE(Divas @ Jan 31 2011, 12:08 AM)
I didn't know Blackwood had a Salmon? the Lamb i know, but i thought their only fish based food was 'Catfish' (and even then it contains chicken.
Blackwood isn't the WORST food you can feed and technically the majority of its ingredients are fine. What i dislike about them is how they have a lot of fillers in and their 'hypoallergenic' formulas/sensitive formulas contain chicken products (in my opinion, if it is a lamb based food it should have only lamb, and a fish based food only fish, if there is a mix of meats it should be clearly stated not hidden in the ingredients which most companies assume most people won't read). Also from clearing out anal glads during grooming sessions, the expression from a dog eating Blackwood is typically similar to that or much much lower grade foods (the only 2 times i have wrongly guessed that a dog was eating Pedigree or Alpo from anal glad expression, they were both on Blackwood). Although anal glads don't always give you a lot of information about how decent a food is, when a secretion is supposed to be quite watery and light in color with a foul but tolerable smell, comes out almost tar black and stinking of old metal and really really old trash, i would say there is something wrong. 
If your dog is doing well on Blackwood i would not ask you to change. I am extra picky with the company as (like a number of other dog food producers) they have never really shown any indication of anything other than money motivation (IMHO) which i don't like from someone i am trusting with such a necessary part of my dog's life and health.
Also i find that there are plenty of much better brands out there for a similar price. You could have a look around at your local pet store and see what else is available.

As far as shampoo goes, i never ever recommend anything that leaves an unnatural fragrance. A shampoo is supposed to clean your dog's coat and skin not perfume it. Natural is always better. If you want your dog to have a fragrance, there are hundreds of perfumes with many different fragrances out there that are very reasonably priced. I already commented on Yu today, hopefully someone who has tried it will notice this thread and be able to comment further. If not i will find a suitable candidate and take the plunge myself :S.
Hope that helps smile.gif.
*
Thanks, Divas! You really are knowledgeable in ingredients. I think I will upgrade to something else after this. I was recommended by the groomers of the brand, Royal Canin. They claim it is the 'caviar' of all dog foods and even have something called Poodle Diet specifically for my dog http://products.royalcanin.us/products/dog...aspx?Animal=Dog . The price is about RM80/kg. If it is really good then I wouldn't mind considering it. Hope to have this dog to live longer and healthier for as long as possible.

Also, I agree with you on the scent of shampoos but unfortunately my GF is always complaining about natural doggy smell. Either way, Ferbes seems to be working well for me so far with the scent lasting for at least 5 days.

QUOTE(Calvin871989 @ Jan 31 2011, 12:26 AM)
thanks divas.

im current feeding my 2 month plus beagle eukanuba. for now, no problems at all when i feed him eukanuba for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

but yesterday i only fed him during breakfast and dinner. i made him skipped his lunch. reason so is because i was testing to see how hungry he will be for dinner.

i usually scoop up the food 8 tablespoon. some may think its too little or maybe a lot but i find it just nice enough.

only big major problem im having now is, he pees and poo everywhere in my room. i really dont know how to toilet train him. is there anything selling at the pet store that can really help me with the pee and poo ?

sorry for the off topic.

thanks
*
Hi Calvin,

I know how difficult it is to toilet train a dog. Got quite upset when I had to train my poodle. Used to leave him free to run around my house when I am not around but come back with him leaving his poo in the ground floor kitchen and pee in my second floor living room. (Can't they just do everything in one place?) Anyhow, I gave him his own bedroom with bathroom attached and he now understands that he is only allowed to do his business in his toilet. So far, he never does it out of his room again. So the key is to maybe regularise the steps. Eat first and chain him up in a familiar spot under he does his business. Continue again and again for a few weeks then try not to chain him and see if he understands.
Calvin871989
post Jan 31 2011, 04:20 PM

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he pee and poo in my room today again.

i put newspapers on the floor early morning before he woke up

i can say that he pee 50-50 on the newspaper (i still praised him and gave him his treats) and most of the time no where near the newspaper.

at time he gets it, but still most of the time he dont.

i cant blame him seeing his only two months plus but some owners i think can already master this in days.

as for the poo. same thing, no where close.

i really cant tell what is going to happen later in the few hours of after dinner.

im going to continue this until he pee and poo right on the newspaper itself.

i think now its a good time for me to have my breakfast, lunch and evening tea since his taking his nap now

ok im really going off topic here and got nothing to do about dog food. ill end it here.

thanks again divas and muffdiver
derking96
post Jan 31 2011, 06:38 PM

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Divas, may i know which brand of food you suggest to give my shih tzu eat,avoderm,royal canin,natural balance,nutriedge,orijen,acana or??tq
Divas
post Jan 31 2011, 10:16 PM

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[quote=muffdiver,Jan 31 2011, 03:49 PM]
Thanks, Divas! You really are knowledgeable in ingredients. I think I will upgrade to something else after this. I was recommended by the groomers of the brand, Royal Canin. They claim it is the 'caviar' of all dog foods and even have something called Poodle Diet specifically for my dog http://products.royalcanin.us/products/dog...aspx?Animal=Dog . The price is about RM80/kg. If it is really good then I wouldn't mind considering it. Hope to have this dog to live longer and healthier for as long as possible.

Also, I agree with you on the scent of shampoos but unfortunately my GF is always complaining about natural doggy smell. Either way, Ferbes seems to be working well for me so far with the scent lasting for at least 5 days.
Hi Calvin,

Royal Canin is a decent food, but IMHO very overpriced for what it is. It certainly isn't the best food out there and its 'breed specific' diets are pretty much identical (if you look at the ingredients list) with a different picture on the front. You can get just a good if not much better foods for less. As it has a high protein level you would be better off with Arcana, Orijen or anything similar. Or go for a lower protein food such as Canidae (sorry i can't think of any other brands with protein around the 24% mark right now, been a long day and most popular brands at the moment are grain free high protein ones).
Royal Canin spends a LOT of money on advertising and writing long pretty descriptions about why there food is good and bla bla bla bla bla...
...If i am going to be impressed with a food i want a picture of the packet (not even that is so necessary), a clear and full ingredients list and nutritional guarantee and a name, simple, precise, no mess, no fuss smile.gif. I don't need to spend hours clicking buttons and looking at pretty pictures of dogs you have hired to snap pictures of (that probably don't eat your food), scanning through marketing junk telling me what you think i want to hear and finally reaching an ingredients list and nutritional guarantee that not only is unimpressive after all the hype but also is STILL surrounded by more junk and garbage to cloud your mind and sway your opinion...

Excuse my random rant but i find it really frustrating when it looks like a company has spent more money constructing their website than creating their food (of you have that much money spend it researching what dogs actually need and create a fantastic food as a result, don't wait until people start shouting about how bad corn is and then take corn out of your ingredients and scream about how 'corn free' your food is vmad.gif .

To make it simple, Royal Canin is not as impressive as they want you to believe. Maybe 5 years ago is was a pretty decent choice but now there are many many other better brands. It isn't the worst food in the world, but it is not worth anywhere near what they charge for it!!

Get perfume and your dog won't smell "like a dog" (although i have never personally found a dog's natural smell offensive unless they have some kind of skin/health problem giving them an abnormal odor). Perfume lasts longer than any shampoo and can be topped up as often as you want really.
nicotine
post Feb 1 2011, 03:20 PM

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anyone tried orijen Regional red ? i plan to change both of my mutt's diet smile.gif

both of them were on acana grassland and I notice their poo were not that solid, slightly watery doh.gif
pieplushie
post Feb 1 2011, 08:44 PM

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QUOTE(Calvin871989 @ Jan 31 2011, 04:20 PM)
he pee and poo in my room today again.

i put newspapers on the floor early morning before he woke up

i can say that he pee 50-50 on the newspaper (i still praised him and gave him his treats) and most of the time no where near the newspaper.

at time he gets it, but still most of the time he dont.

i cant blame him seeing his only two months plus but some owners i think can already master this in days.

as for the poo. same thing, no where close.

i really cant tell what is going to happen later in the few hours of after dinner.

im going to continue this until he pee and poo right on the newspaper itself.

i think now its a good time for me to have my breakfast, lunch and evening tea since his taking his nap now

ok im really going off topic here and got nothing to do about dog food. ill end it here.

thanks again divas and muffdiver
*
How I trained my doggie when she was as pup last time was,
usually after her meals (or if she looks like she's about to pee/poo), I will bring her to her potty place and wait, just wait there..
until she pee/poo, lol, then I praise her like mad. "Good potty! good girl! good potty!" *sayang her like mad*

I did use wee wee pads for a while, after she knows what to do, I placed newspapers on top of her
wee wee pads so she'd get used to newspapers. icon_rolleyes.gif
infernoaswen
post Feb 2 2011, 11:01 PM

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any good dog treats you guys give? i saw a few youtube videos on dog training...they fed dog cookies to train their dogs. i also want to start training my dog maybe after a month. any good treats brand that you tired before that your dog likes?
Divas
post Feb 2 2011, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(derking96 @ Jan 31 2011, 06:38 PM)
Divas, may i know which brand of food you suggest to give my shih tzu eat,avoderm,royal canin,natural balance,nutriedge,orijen,acana or??tq
*
Sorry forgot to reply

Avoderm is a decent food but a lot of dogs don't like it because of the Avocardo. It doesn't give amazing results but is healthy.
Royal Canin is overpriced, but an ok food.
Natural Balance and Nutriedge are both fine ingredients wise but i don't have any practical experience with either.
Orijen and Acana are both good, but high protein (if memory serves) so i would always recommend mixing with a lower protein (but equally good quality) brand.

Hope that helps. I would definitely not suggest Royal Canin, Avoderm is worth a try if your dog will take it, Orijen or Acana would be a good choice and Natural Balance or Nutriedge would do fine.
Calvin871989
post Feb 3 2011, 12:06 AM

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quick question, are they selling evo dry and canned food at midvalley. i will also go for some evo treats as well if i have some money left after my purchase of either evo dry or cannned food. thank you
xDingx
post Feb 8 2011, 04:15 PM

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Hi All,

I'm currently feeding my 1 year old schnauzr BARF, and planning to switch her diet to kibble as her poo is kinda dry when she is on BARF, and i believe that this is not a healthy sign....

However, I searched around and couldnt make decision which kibble to go for. Am looking for a kibble that is excellent for a dog's health and its skin and coat, and also, prefer if the dog wont produce a VERY smelly poo after eating the kibble. My dog cant eat fish based kibble as she will produce soft poo...i tried to feed Acana Pacifica before....
Is Acana Grasslands good? anyone tried?

In addition, I know that i have to brush my dog's teeth more often if compare to feeding BARF.....any brand of tooth paste recommended? and where can i get it....? (sorry, a bit out of topic tongue.gif )


Thanks blush.gif
valentinonkk
post Feb 8 2011, 05:11 PM

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Not many forumers here use eaglepro huh? hmm.gif
Divas
post Feb 8 2011, 06:06 PM

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QUOTE(xDingx @ Feb 8 2011, 04:15 PM)
Hi All,

I'm currently feeding my 1 year old schnauzr BARF, and planning to switch her diet to kibble as her poo is kinda dry when she is on BARF, and i believe that this is not a healthy sign....

However, I searched around and couldnt make decision which kibble to go for. Am looking for a kibble that is excellent for a dog's health and its skin and coat, and also, prefer if the dog wont produce a VERY smelly poo after eating the kibble. My dog cant eat fish based kibble as she will produce soft poo...i tried to feed Acana Pacifica before....
Is Acana Grasslands good? anyone tried?

In addition, I know that i have to brush my dog's teeth more often if compare to feeding BARF.....any brand of tooth paste recommended? and where can i get it....? (sorry, a bit out of topic  tongue.gif )
Thanks  blush.gif
*
I would have thought just adding more moisture to your BARF would solve the problem.

However kibble is much less hassle. Ingredients wise Acana Grasslands is a great food, as long as you don't mind the high protein (which you would be getting from a BARF diet anyway so makes a lot of sense in your situation). I don't have any practical experience with it, but with an ingredients list like that, you should expect only good things. However a word of caution - it is often the healthier, more natural and less grain foods that can cause smellier poop, however in my opinion if you pick the poop up as soon as it is done and flush it... no more smell, no problem smile.gif. Sadly though, as far as food is concerned, when trying to avoid smelly poop, it is a case of trial and error as each dog reacts differently to every food so it really depends what works for you and your dog.

If you feed your dog the kibble dry and give rawhide (or raw bones seeing as you are already doing so, i assume) there is no need to brush your dogs teeth any more regularly than you would feeding BARF (it is the bone chewing that cleans the teeth which you can continue to give even after switching to kibble). I prefer to let my dogs chew things and clean their teeth very rarely (only if i see areas where their chewing isn't doing enough), not only does it keep their teeth clean but it keeps them quiet for a while and by constantly using interesting shaped and different textured chew things it helps keeps their mind active as well.
If you choose to feed wet/canned food (which i highly don't recommend) you have to clean your dog's teeth a lot more often (even if they chew things) as wet food really really builds up the gunk and causes rotting/black/dead/decayed teeth way way way to early in life otherwise.
xDingx
post Feb 8 2011, 06:40 PM

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QUOTE(Divas @ Feb 8 2011, 06:06 PM)
I would have thought just adding more moisture to your BARF would solve the problem.

However kibble is much less hassle. Ingredients wise Acana Grasslands is a great food, as long as you don't mind the high protein (which you would be getting from a BARF diet anyway so makes a lot of sense in your situation). I don't have any practical experience with it, but with an ingredients list like that, you should expect only good things. However a word of caution - it is often the healthier, more natural and less grain foods that can cause smellier poop, however in my opinion if you pick the poop up as soon as it is done and flush it... no more smell, no problem smile.gif. Sadly though, as far as food is concerned, when trying to avoid smelly poop, it is a case of trial and error as each dog reacts differently to every food so it really depends what works for you and your dog.

If you feed your dog the kibble dry and give rawhide (or raw bones seeing as you are already doing so, i assume) there is no need to brush your dogs teeth any more regularly than you would feeding BARF (it is the bone chewing that cleans the teeth which you can continue to give even after switching to kibble). I prefer to let my dogs chew things and clean their teeth very rarely (only if i see areas where their chewing isn't doing enough), not only does it keep their teeth clean but it keeps them quiet for a while and by constantly using interesting shaped and different textured chew things it helps keeps their mind active as well.
If you choose to feed wet/canned food (which i highly don't recommend) you have to clean your dog's teeth a lot more often (even if they chew things) as wet food really really builds up the gunk and causes rotting/black/dead/decayed teeth way way way to early in life otherwise.
*
Thank you Divas, i though u r expert in Kibble, but u also know well for BARF rclxms.gif

Normally i bought the BARF from furrenz.com.....and i will prepare the BARF by myself too...how to add more moisture to the BARF? what ingredient can i add to increase the moisture of the BARF?


Btw, if feeding kibble, the moisture that the dry kibble contain is much much lesser than BARF, why the dog's poo will not tat hard? and do v need to increase the moisture to our dog if v feed kibble? any supplement?

This post has been edited by xDingx: Feb 8 2011, 06:41 PM
derking96
post Feb 8 2011, 07:59 PM

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anyone knows that is BARF better than kibble ???is the ingrediant Ingredient ratios in the mince are:
70% meat / bone
10% organ meat
20% vegetables (leafy green vegetables, carrots, celery, tomatoes, ginger, capsicum, apples, garlic, eggs, apple cider vinegar, dried kelp, cod liver oil)

Chicken Mince
RM 6.00 / 500gm

Mutton Mince
RM 9.00 / 500gm

Mixed Mince (beef, mutton, chicken)
RM 7.50 / 500gm

Wild Boar Mince
RM 8.00 / 500gm

Fish Mince
RM 7.50/ 500gm

good ???
which 1 is more suitable for a shih tzu of 2 - 3 months old???
tq
devil86
post Feb 8 2011, 08:17 PM

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QUOTE(derking96 @ Feb 8 2011, 07:59 PM)
anyone knows that is BARF better than kibble ???is the ingrediant Ingredient ratios in the mince are:
70% meat / bone
10% organ meat
20% vegetables (leafy green vegetables, carrots, celery, tomatoes, ginger, capsicum, apples, garlic, eggs, apple cider vinegar, dried kelp, cod liver oil)

Chicken Mince
RM 6.00 / 500gm

Mutton Mince
RM 9.00 / 500gm

Mixed Mince (beef, mutton, chicken)
RM 7.50 / 500gm

Wild Boar Mince
RM 8.00 / 500gm

Fish Mince
RM 7.50/ 500gm

good ???
which 1 is more suitable for a shih tzu of 2 - 3 months old???
tq
*
BARF and Kibble have their own good, no 1 is better than other...

i know where u quote these packets and price from, normally i will buy different meat packet so that my dog can have different nutrition, i suggest u buy chunks packet coz by chewing the chunk it can clean ur dog teeth as well...

btw, here is kibble discussion site, for more BARF info, refer to BARF Discussion smile.gif

This post has been edited by devil86: Feb 8 2011, 08:18 PM
k9groom
post Feb 8 2011, 08:55 PM

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I would suggest looking into your barf diet to determine if there is a bit too much fiber that causes the stool to be too dry. From looking at the ingredients list provided at the website, I can't help but to think that perhaps it is. The vegetables listed at the site contains both soluble and insoluble fiber sources, and most importantly, it is the fact that the vegetables are given raw. Raw vegetables are very difficult for canines to digest and utilize, given their extremely short digestive tracts and the lack of carbohydrate-digesting amylase enzyme in their mouth. Unless those vegetables are blended and chopped finely so that it breaks the cellulose walls in order for the dog to fully utilize its nutrients. Perhaps the cause of those dry stools is that fact that there is too much fiber in the diet and the best way to combat it would be indeed to increase the moisture content in the food. Adding liquid into the diet or perhaps increasing your dog's intake of fluids should help.

As for teeth brushing, I am a strong believer in brushing a dog's teeth, irregardless if they chew on bones or anything at all. Don't bother with rawhides. Those are artificially bleached, and chemically preserved hides of animals that often causes stomach obstruction when swallowed due to the fact that it increases its size when contact with moisture. It also adheres firmly to dust, hair, dirt, bacteria and germs after a while. Chewing on bones does clean the teeth but not every corner of it. It still all boils down to giving their teeth a good brush to ensure a lifelong of disease-free gums and teeth. Dogs, like us, develops a sticky film over their teeth after every 36 hours or so, and this sticky films turns into plaque over time if allowed to. Therefore brushing your dogs teeth at least every 1 or 2 days or so almost guarantees good dental health if done correctly. Get a toothpaste without sorbitol or xylitol, as most toothpaste in the market now contains these 2. Most importantly, a good toothpaste contains enzyme that helps retard bacterial growth and removes and breaks tartar buildup.

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