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 The suiting thread v2

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gshen
post Jul 21 2010, 12:05 PM

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Been stalking this thread for a bit & finally got off my lazy ass to register and say hi to my comrades across the causeway. You guys have got a pretty good discussion going on, compared to my local folk bickering on a certain h w z forum about which polyester suit is cheaper & better..

Beau - were you at Iris tailor in SG last week? Some of the points you raised sound awfully familiar - esp the part about the HK tailors & WISC shirtings.
gshen
post Jul 21 2010, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(FusioneX @ Jul 21 2010, 12:14 PM)
Holy sweet sartorial jesus! I never thought I would see gshen from SF on Lowyat.net.
Your knowledge of Singaporean bespoke would really help most of the forumers in here.

Anyway, a warm welcome to you, gshen!  smile.gif
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Gee, thank you! Warm welcome indeed.

I'm just another small timer sharing my thoughts and experiences that will hopefully help others out. smile.gif


gshen
post Jul 21 2010, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(FusioneX @ Jul 21 2010, 12:36 PM)
Now you are being awfully humble, gshen. It is small timers like me who look up to people like you. nod.gif

If I remember correctly, kotmj even showed some of your pictures to his tailor, Ah Loke as reference material.
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Yup, vaguely remember seeing that post somewhere here. It was actually kotmj who led me to this forum quite a while ago too.

That said, I have a 6x2 DB suit in the works, using the very last bits of Minnis' Rangoon in mid-gray. Sweet cloth & a real pity that it's been discontinued.. Hope to have some pics to show in the next couple of weeks!
gshen
post Jul 22 2010, 12:25 AM

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QUOTE(bloke1 @ Jul 21 2010, 02:22 PM)
Oh MAI gawd. It's indeed gshen. The real God has cometh. Move over GodStalkermj! wub.gif
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God does not wear Allen Edmonds as I unfortunately do blush.gif


QUOTE(beau @ Jul 21 2010, 02:43 PM)
Iris Tailor sounds like a place my friend recommended. It could be him you ran into. I believe he came across some of his old RTW  suits when he was clearing his HK property for rent . I was not in Singapore last week.

We were colleagues in London , he subsequently relocated to Singapore while I was posted to HK before returning to Malaysia.

We were recommended to AMHC by another colleague ( who have since switch allegiance to WW Chan ) The same colleague came across a bale of vintage sea island which was sold as part of a liquidation exercise of a European firm. It was sold at a very ridiculously low price & some of us have fond memories of the wonderful shirts that were created as a result of that purchase.

Iris Tailor comes highly recommended by him as it's given some of his old suits a new life. I am waiting for him to commission something ( I think he was planning to make a hacking jacket in Harris Tweed & a Linen Jacket ) before I pay them a visit.

It helps that Nani, the fitter furnished him with some culinary recommendations from Indonesia in time for the World Cup which appealed to his inner gluttony. If you do happen to run into him, tell him to bring more of the Indonesian Cashews & Prawn Crackers when he comes up to Malaysia otherwise we won't let him cross the border!!
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Yup, I can confirm we are talking about the same gent from your mention of the prawn crackers! AFAIK he has not commissioned anything other than shirts at Iris tailor, which is not their forte anyway. It's no secret that Singaporean tailors all outsource their work to factories..unless you get the rare tailor that shanks your buttons or hand stitches buttonholes (both exceedingly rare), the higher end tailors are all pretty much the same. That said, their shirts are made by one of the better factories that does a pretty good job with single needle stitching & high density stitches. Cloth selection isn't too bad either.

If your friend is used to the tailors in HK, I think Iris tailor's suits will give him a pleasant surprise if he has time to invest in a couple of fitting sessions. I've seen a few Chan suits and I'm convinced Iris tailor's stuff measures up pretty well against them. Speaking from my personal experience rather than others' of course smile.gif


gshen
post Jul 22 2010, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(beau @ Jul 22 2010, 06:12 AM)
Sounds like you've met my friend.

...
Yup, I did mention that their shirts aren't the best. Much better deals to be found in HK.. CYC as the top shirtmaker?? Probably from people who don't know better and believe that dear L K Y's shirtmaker must be the best.. Pure rubbish laugh.gif My first custom shirt was done with them when I knew much, much less.. but still the fit was extremely poor & sleeves made at least 1" too short. Double needle (chain)stitched too. Would've rejected the shirt completely had I known better!

I've inspected H&K, N&L as well as T&A shirts and frankly speaking - no big deal. I admit their attention to detail is good, but with some serious guidance to my current shirtmaker, I can achieve ~95% of the quality at about 10% of the price after a couple of semi-acceptable 'experiments'. Non-fused (self-lined) collars, OCD pattern-matching, shanked buttons etc. inclusive! thumbup.gif
gshen
post Jul 23 2010, 12:43 AM

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QUOTE(beau @ Jul 22 2010, 11:30 PM)
Who is your current shirt maker?

I've used Ascot Chang & Davids in HK. Of the two , AC has the best fit & finish. David's isn't too shabby either . Jantzen is another name I hear about , opinions are highly polarized about their ability ( or lack of, depending on your experience with them )

Have you looked at Charvet? Beautiful shirts but they induce a sharp intake of breath when it come to pay for them.
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I am hesitant to reveal the maker for various reasons, but I have some pictures to show if you scroll further.

Have not seen AC's stuff, but I hear good things about them. I've had quite a few Jantzen shirts - fabric quality is hit & miss as they are mostly unbranded stuff probably from China. Customer service is shite though, and they are good at missing/changing details on your shirts. Can't expect much from guys doing such large internet volume.. Try Lee Baron in HK if you visit again. He has ex-AC cutters working for him and does very nice non-fused collars.

I don't ever intend to pay so much for a shirt, so Charvet is obviously out of the question..

Pics as promised - one of my earlier experiments, fabric by Acorn:
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gshen
post Jul 23 2010, 11:59 AM

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Thanks - small adjustments to be made to fit due to shrinkage, but overall I am very pleased. I am going to prewash all my lengths of cloth before sending them to the tailor in future.

1. Unfortunately the scene here for shirtmaking is not great. kotmj's pics of AL's shirts seem very decent - and a local option is always favorable. Maybe because they know you will forever be on their ass if they screwup!

2. I've given up on that - Richard James Weldon serves all my needs and shipping is cheap as chips for small quantities. I have probably a lifetime supply of 3.5mm MOP shirt buttons that I am selling, so that's one less worry as well!




gshen
post Jul 23 2010, 12:53 PM

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http://hst.com.sg/acatalog/Soft_Finished_N...nterlining.html - not cheap, but there you go.

Anyways, you can try self-lining (using the shirting material) your collars/cuffs with an additional layer or two, depending on the fabric weight. No extra cost involved and works just as well for me.

Swiss interlining tends to be a bit harder/stiffer if that is what you prefer. I like the softness and fluidity of my self-lined collars, so i'm sticking with that.
gshen
post Jul 23 2010, 01:05 PM

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I dont know - I was introduced by an old customer of Lee Baron's and he mentioned that there are various sifu's doing the work for him. Maybe it was because of the introduction that I got the ex-AC guy? Not too sure about others, but all my 10 or so shirts from him are consistent in quality.

My MOP buttons are available for sale here - http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=174715

And I use cotton glace thread for my shirts, super strong and probably will never need replacement in my lifetime. I bought the wrong size (#16 is a bit too thick) unfortunately, but this is the right one - http://www.wardrobesupplies.com/store/m2_thread_hymark.html

gshen
post Jul 23 2010, 02:40 PM

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I am using this in white - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1-GLACE-THREAD-HY-MA...=item4cebbe9a8a

The glace finish and 4ply makes the thread extremely durable. Try this stuff when you are done with your small spools. It's available in #24 and #16, but I have no idea which is the thinner one.. mine at 16 is already about 4x the thickness of your typical polyester threads.

Why do you say that about HST? Like most businesses, they sell their stuff to retail at a higher price than to the trade.. Their stuff is a bit more expensive than most, but I guess that's to do with their small volume and expensive freight costs since we are miles and miles away from manufacturers.

Maybe you can try these guys: http://www.steinlaufandstoller.com/Interfa...Non%20Woven.htm
gshen
post Jul 23 2010, 02:55 PM

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Ouch - understandable why you are not too happy with them I guess. If you are desperate to get hold of something from them in future, let me know and I'll try to help without ripping you off on postage.

Try Richard James Weldon in future. Their buttons are the nicest I've seen and cost a lot less than HST's. They supply Savile Row with trimmings, so they should probably be good enough for you. Shipping is also only about 2 GBP even when I ordered nearly 100 buttons in total.
gshen
post Jul 23 2010, 06:00 PM

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LOL - well yeah basically for my own consumption.. and for a coat my GF commissioned.

Hmm.. I think you will only notice if you are super OCD and scrutinize every inch of your shirt. I just washed a few lengths of striped seersucker and did not notice such an occurrence.

I would change a dry cleaner rather than pre-dryclean your suitings as that is obviously not supposed to happen! Dry clean as little as possible because the harsh chemicals used negatively affect the hand and performance of the natural fibres/oils in your suitings.
gshen
post Jul 23 2010, 08:39 PM

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Just checked the invoice to be sure - my bad! More like 60 buttons, but still shipping was just GBP1.65...
gshen
post Jul 29 2010, 12:30 AM

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QUOTE(beau @ Jul 28 2010, 09:04 PM)
Here are pictures of me wearing the jacket. Please bear in mind that this fitted 8 years ago.


I am certain the poor pictures are doing no justice to the jacket's fit.. or hope so at least.

QUOTE(beau @ Jul 28 2010, 09:04 PM)
Gshen,

What is your opinion regarding Tailor Chan at Starhub Centre?

I was meeting some clients nearby & was introduced to this tailor as Singapore's answer to  Savile Row Bespoke.

1. He quoted SIN$800 for labor excluding materials for a suit & SIN$80 for a shirt.
2. The shirts were not inspirational -he claims that it's not possible to tailor a shirt with non fused collar in Singapore
3. The jackets he made had a nice lapel roll with pick stitchings on the edges. He claims to only make non-fused fully canvas suits. The cut was fine but I would prefer the pick stitching to be more subtle & almost invisible.
4. When asked about matching patterns  ( especially around the jettings etc,) he didn't seem very pleased.

Any thoughts you have on this tailor is appreciated
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Shirts as you mentioned - unimpressive & factory made like everyone else.. I dislike tailors who make sweeping statements about everyone else simply based on their incapability. There are a few -rare, but they exist - tailors that will make you a non-fused collar if you know where to look.

Apparently they are the only ones who do their suits in house from start to end, or used to anyway. Supposed to be amongst the best quality in town (buttonholes in particular), but I have yet to see one to judge for myself. I had a chat with them once, and their attitude was quite off putting - your typical old inflexible, know-it-all tailor who was reluctant to take instructions. I already had a good pattern with my current tailor at that point in time, so saw no point in spending time and energy to build another r/s.

Full canvas suits are the standard at my tailor FWIW..definitely not exceedingly rare like non-fused shirt collars by any chance.
gshen
post Jul 29 2010, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(beau @ Jul 29 2010, 07:32 AM)
Agreed. It takes time, effort & sometimes several suits to cultivate the relationship .

I'll probably need to have the jacket in the picture altered given my changed body shape.

I was put off by the tailor's attitude for the following reasons:-

1. He claimed that the lack of skilled labor made it virtually impossible to tailor non-fused collar shirts in HK or Singapore. This is clearly incorrect as my shirts from AC & David's from HK have non-fused collars.

2. Only one fitting was offered with the jacket closed to finish stage. The lack of labor  in Singapore was cited as a reason . Your postings on Styleforum & the conversations I had with my other Singapore based friends indicate that this is not the case. I fail to understand how the perfect fit is going to be achieved when most high end tailors on the Row, Italy or HK require a minimum of 2 to 3 fittings. He didn't seem happy when I suggested an initial fitting at the basting stage. There was a Caucasian customer in his shop at the same time wearing one of their products , the lack of fitting was telling by the gape between the collar & the shirt.

3. The coup de grace' was the request to have patterns aligned at the lapels , shoulder and jettings. His response was no tailor matches patterns at the jettings & the most important matching is at the rear of the jacket with the collar & back. I had the sad duty to inform him that Andersen & Shepherd 's trademark is matching patterns at jettings.

I would probably give the place a miss despite his reputation .

BTW I have passed the unconstructed jacket to my friend who will probably make it his next project at Iris ( see my pictures on this several threads back ). He made a pair of cross over pants in Scabal cotton there too & seem relatively pleased.
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My tailor even gives you a 'muslin' fitting where the jacket is first cut on scrap cloth and fitted first, to ensure there are no major errors before cutting your cloth. Very strange procedure these guys follow..perhaps because they are doing everything in house and want to cut down on extra work as much as possible.

Thanks for your report anyway - I am sure i do not want to try these guys now.

BTW - Iris' 'house style' so to speak is a structured cut with zero drape and very lean overall. The best I have got her to do is a quarter lined jacket for a friend, but because of the canvas weight she uses, it is still not extremely soft. She has done an unlined and uncanvassed heavy linen jacket for another friend though, and it turned out very nicely. More like a shirt jacket though, if that is what he is looking for.

In any case, your friend should bear in mind that he will be asking for something out of the norm from them and tweak his expectations accordingly..


gshen
post Jul 29 2010, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(beau @ Jul 29 2010, 11:43 AM)
Yes it's similar to a shirt jacket. The sample I provided should provide your tailor with plenty of guidance on how to do one. The lack of structure means that the cut is critical .I may follow suit after my guinea pig successfully completes his jacket.
Sounds good. Recently there's been an influx of Big Timers bringing expensive jackets from A&S, Tom Ford etc for alterations at Iris. Great for small timers like me as my tailor picks up all the little tricks and applies them to future commissions!
gshen
post Aug 5 2010, 12:18 AM

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QUOTE(bloke1 @ Aug 2 2010, 12:10 AM)
Which is the reason I would never show him the jacket as long as he's alive. In fact, he asked me to bring along my jacket for comparison few weeks ago. I refused by saying I left it somewhere in your place.

Here is the list of what I've done.
1. Resew all of his buttons
2. Slightly trim padding around the sleeve head
3. Pick-stitched all over the suit
4. Reset the lapel roll
5. Remove and re-stitch sleeve lining(also removed couple of tacks securing the lining along the sleeve seam)
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Pics or it never happened!!

Anyway, pics as promised from yesterday's fitting. Unfortunately the trousers (single forward pleat, fishtail back) were not ready for fitting, but here is the top half of the suit. Please proceed to hack and slash away with your critiques!

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gshen
post Aug 5 2010, 09:47 AM

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QUOTE(beau @ Aug 5 2010, 08:51 AM)

1. What fabric are you using?

2. Have you considered having a slightly boat shaped breast pocket for a distinctive bespoke look?

3. Are you having single, double or no vents?

4. Although this is personal to me, my preference is for the jacket to be slightly longer ( up to the length of your knuckles ), more built up in the chest with greater waist suppression.

It's probably best to provide feedback with the trousers which I assume is a full cut to be worn with braces etc. It would give a more accurate depiction of the overall silhouette one is trying to achieve. I would suggest you have a fitting with the trousers in order to better assess the full picture.

Let us know how this works out.

p.s. I assume this is with Iris , your regular tailor. Is there a three way mirror available for you to conduct a self assessment during the fittings?
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1. Minnis Rangoon in light gray (well, more like mid) - 8oz tropical worsted, very nice stuff.

2. The breast pocket is already slightly curved.

3. Double, if you look hard in the reflection you can see it.

4. Good point on length, will consider adding a little! Waist is being shaped more (about 1/2" on each side), and I'm leaving the chest as is.

Trousers are not exactly full cut, but they have a clean line and shape is in harmony with the jacket.

Iris tailor, yes, and no 3 way mirror but I usually have a buddy along to help look. The husband and wife team already provide 2 pair of eyes I trust though.

gshen
post Aug 5 2010, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(beau @ Aug 5 2010, 12:43 PM)
Good choice-Where did you buy your Minnis from?
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Long, long time ago (maybe 2 years) when they were clearing the stock online. Only black is left unfortunately.
gshen
post Aug 5 2010, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 5 2010, 02:05 PM)
Something is wrong with the back. Either the back balance is too long, or it is too short. I think it might be the latter.

There is also a horizontal ripple in the upper back under the collar. It's a common problem and can be made to go away.

I think the length is perfect. A DB is supposed to be shorter than a SB anyway.

Is there canvassing in there already?
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You have a good eye. Jacket is a bit tight over the upper shoulders, as my shoulder blades are very prominent and stick out a lot - they have already noted this adjustment though.

I may add a wee bit in length, maybe 1/2". There is canvas already.

I think back balance is a bit short, also my right shoulder has a drop not fully accommodated for, which is causing some diagonal ripples.

Also thinking of taming the lapels a wee bit - a little narrower and pointing lower.

Good points you raised though, thank you!

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