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Photography The Sony Alpha Thread V39!, The Orange Legion

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vikingw2k
post May 3 2010, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(clivengu @ May 3 2010, 05:59 PM)

I don think im ready to move to Fullframe yet... I still havent feel the urge to upgrade as i think my A700 still can fullfill my need at the moment...
I guess your statement contradicts. You were asking which combo is good, Siggy 50mm + A850 or 35G + A700, the obvious answer would be Siggy 50mm + A850. If A700 can fulfill your requirement, then you should discard your question considering your A700 is fine for you for the time being.

QUOTE(clivengu @ May 3 2010, 05:59 PM)

By upgrading to fullframe i believe it cant help me improve my photography much.
With the same theory, by getting a 35G wouldn't help you to improve your photography much too.

QUOTE(clivengu @ May 3 2010, 05:59 PM)

My only thought is that... the 50mm on fullframe is just such excellent focal length. I WISH i have that focal length prime f1.4 on my apsc body as a walkaround lens. but the 35mm F1.4G is bloody expensive... so much more expensive than the 50mm~~
35G is not worth to get, A850 + Siggy 50mm f1.4 is a better combo as a walkabout lens. smile.gif

lwliam
post May 3 2010, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(clivengu @ May 3 2010, 05:59 PM)
The Sigma 50mm F1.4 is very heavy n bulky.. but i heard review says the sharpness wide open is better than the sony version right?
HAHAHHAA.. PRE-haul.. i like tat.. no need 2bulan.. tak sampai 2 minggu.
I don think im ready to move to Fullframe yet... I still havent feel the urge to upgrade as i think my A700 still can fullfill my need at the moment... By upgrading to fullframe i believe it cant help me improve my photography much. I rather spend on lens that can help me achieve something differently. I could have stick with A700 for a while.

My only thought is that... the 50mm on fullframe is just such excellent focal length. I WISH i have that focal length prime f1.4 on my apsc body as a walkaround lens. but the 35mm F1.4G is bloody expensive... so much more expensive than the 50mm~~
*
i'd rather not spend, but instead squeezeeee the last of the remaining juice from my A700 before skipping higher up... tongue.gif
ieR
post May 3 2010, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(clivengu @ May 3 2010, 05:40 PM)
A quick thought of the day:
A700 + 35mm F1.4G vs A850 + 50mm F1.4 (picture quality , value?)

Can these 2 combination be compared side by side?
Which will u choose lets say u already own A700 and the 50mm F1.4. Both A850 and 35mm F1.4G i think has almost similar price.. rm 5500++  laugh.gif
*
i'd take the A700 replacement + 28F2.8 + 50F1.4 at the same price. FF lens would burn ur pocket in the future, while crop gave more choices. to me, seriously, it doesnt matter, matter my skill can cope with the anticipation of right timing and proper composition.
vikingw2k
post May 3 2010, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(ieR @ May 3 2010, 06:00 PM)
LOL, it like another discussion, using burst mode are noobs, using singleshot drive and manually burst with ur finger tapping are Pro.... so, use manual!

shootkk: (or anyone else): shootkk, this is not directly to u, but just MY Opinion (u can choose to ignore)...

to me, those mumbo jumbo talk and discussion are pure crap, its just talk to make u sound smarter, not shoot better. there is no right or wrong in photographing or making painting shooting editing tak'ing' or creat'ing', magically appear'ing' or anyth'ing' to do with a photo.

the arguement saying u use prime u are better? or more pro, or better learning or 'classified' u as better? that is big BS to me. i do not expect myself to swap 200mm, to 85mm or 35 then 20mm during a wedding job. does that makes me a noob(ok not so harsh, but 'taking') a picture?

journalism may use prime* but of all journalism photo i see, non are super nice(iq) as those shoot for advert in mag by zoom lens. how to justify?

coming back a little to the discussion point, zoom lens gave people versatile, not title of 'taking a picture', technology is so wonderful, use it... impossible u know u have 7fps, u go use single shoot drive and manually use ur hand to burst because using fps is noob mode? tongue.gif alright...

(my opinion of primes is they can get better aperture then standard zoom, although tech had let zoom caught up with F2.8(up to 200mm)... prime is when i do need the aperture below F2.0)

okay, serious talk here: there are people, who are experienced (who i like to call pro) knows a 'zoom lens' like knowing their wife... coz, when using a 24-70 F2.8(lets say), when shooting a subject, they know how much they need to zoom (distance vs zoom plays a role in determine DOF without changing aperture) and still walks in front to compose with the 'zoom' then set the appropriate required aperture (dof) to shoot... , like i said before, zoom are versatile, many learners might just did what u quote, "you just zoom in and out until something looks good" but how many would next think about the DOF appearing to the result? who many would turn down to F8 to shoot at 50mm?(so u get the subject, perhaps small or big but near to be sharp)

prime or zoom lens do not give u(not u shootkk) right to brand people...
*edit; eh, i check there is not [ spoiler] in my reply, but why is my reply spoilered? lol
*
Bugger, you left out one spoiler code in your reply la. I've helped you to fix it anyway. By the way, I second what you were mentioning especially the bold part. There's nothing right or wrong. I'm a prime and zoom dude. Primes for my low light or portraits or when I need uber bokeh, zooms when I'm lazy or when there's plenty of light and I'm rushing esp during events. Both lenses are designed for different purpose there there's no right or wrong biggrin.gif
myjunk
post May 3 2010, 06:31 PM

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My sentiments are also in favour of Primes.
Primes gives the BEST IQ (i would say perhaps 95% of the time?? guessing cos there are some primes which suck I think)

Zooms offer convinience. They may not have the BEST IQ, but it depends on what you can live with. Yes, some are exceptionally good, but there are also zooms which to me, "good for everything, but also good for nothing" (like those ultra zooms 18-270mm for eg)

You trade off this for that and etc. I've yet to see a zoom that is < f2.8. But Primes, even got f1.0 man.

Also, with primes, you have to be creative in your shots because of the limiting factor in that you can't zoom.

The limiting factor, most of the time is the person behind the camera. Uber lens / camera does not make you uber shooter. (whoever "you" are, just generalising). BUT, once you've gone to the stage where you are "good enough" then your gears becomes the limiting factor.

That is when you need to get the A900 or perhaps also jump ship...............
clivengu
post May 3 2010, 06:36 PM

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QUOTE(ieR @ May 3 2010, 06:00 PM)
LOL, it like another discussion, using burst mode are noobs, using singleshot drive and manually burst with ur finger tapping are Pro.... so, use manual!

shootkk: (or anyone else): shootkk, this is not directly to u, but just MY Opinion (u can choose to ignore)...

to me, those mumbo jumbo talk and discussion are pure crap, its just talk to make u sound smarter, not shoot better. there is no right or wrong in photographing or making painting shooting editing tak'ing' or creat'ing', magically appear'ing' or anyth'ing' to do with a photo.

the arguement saying u use prime u are better? or more pro, or better learning or 'classified' u as better? that is big BS to me. i do not expect myself to swap 200mm, to 85mm or 35 then 20mm during a wedding job. does that makes me a noob(ok not so harsh, but 'taking') a picture?

journalism may use prime* but of all journalism photo i see, non are super nice(iq) as those shoot for advert in mag by zoom lens. how to justify?

coming back a little to the discussion point, zoom lens gave people versatile, not title of 'taking a picture', technology is so wonderful, use it... impossible u know u have 7fps, u go use single shoot drive and manually use ur hand to burst because using fps is noob mode? tongue.gif alright...

(my opinion of primes is they can get better aperture then standard zoom, although tech had let zoom caught up with F2.8(up to 200mm)... prime is when i do need the aperture below F2.0)

okay, serious talk here: there are people, who are experienced (who i like to call pro) knows a 'zoom lens' like knowing their wife... coz, when using a 24-70 F2.8(lets say), when shooting a subject, they know how much they need to zoom (distance vs zoom plays a role in determine DOF without changing aperture) and still walks in front to compose with the 'zoom' then set the appropriate required aperture (dof) to shoot... , like i said before, zoom are versatile, many learners might just did what u quote, "you just zoom in and out until something looks good" but how many would next think about the DOF appearing to the result? who many would turn down to F8 to shoot at 50mm?(so u get the subject, perhaps small or big but near to be sharp)

prime or zoom lens do not give u(not u shootkk) right to brand people...
*edit; eh, i check there is not [ spoiler] in my reply, but why is my reply spoilered? lol
*edit: fixed, thanks to the mod who helped... wink.gif
*
Not to add to the debate or argument. I Personally think to use a zoom lens, one needs a lot of self awareness. Needs lots of training to really master it. An example of a basic exercise i get to try during my design school... where one was given a restriction to improve our creativity.

we are given 3 forms: example 1 rectangle. and 2 circles. We are required to create 50 interesting combination using only this 3 forms. I like the exercise as it force us to think out of the box. Although we struggle at first but we soon realise we can create endless interesting forms using just the most simple primitive forms. If we are given too much freedom... we will have no proper direction. Site dimension constraint. Budget constraint. Forms constraint. In architecture we work around it.

Anyway what im saying is... I love using prime to challenge myself. is just my way to play with my camera...although sometimes no choice i still have to use zoom. this doesnt apply to everyone of course. notworthy.gif


QUOTE(vikingw2k @ May 3 2010, 06:04 PM)
I guess your statement contradicts. You were asking which combo is good, Siggy 50mm + A850 or 35G + A700, the obvious answer would be Siggy 50mm + A850. If A700 can fulfill your requirement, then you should discard your question considering your A700 is fine for you for the time being.
With the same theory, by getting a 35G wouldn't help you to improve your photography much too.
35G is not worth to get, A850 + Siggy 50mm f1.4 is a better combo as a walkabout lens. smile.gif
*
That is just a quick thought of the day.. just curious whats d difference between this both combination... since both also almost same focal length. Will fullframe really make a big difference in this case? I could b missing something for sure. is for my education purpose. i nvr really think of spending 5k on a 35G or A850 anytime sooner anyway... but is good to find out.

vikingw2k
post May 3 2010, 06:39 PM

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QUOTE(myjunk @ May 3 2010, 06:31 PM)
My sentiments are also in favour of Primes.
Primes gives the BEST IQ (i would say perhaps 95% of the time?? guessing cos there are some primes which suck I think)

Zooms offer convinience. They may not have the BEST IQ, but it depends on what you can live with. Yes, some are exceptionally good, but there are also zooms which to me, "good for everything, but also good for nothing" (like those ultra zooms 18-270mm for eg)

You trade off this for that and etc.
I myself have my primes 95% of the time compared to zooms unless I'm shooting events due the to bokeh, sharpness and the god damn weight.

QUOTE(myjunk @ May 3 2010, 06:31 PM)
I've yet to see a zoom that is < f2.8. But Primes, even got f1.0 man.
Click here for f2.0 zoom lens. Wonder when will the rest start to have it. drool.gif

QUOTE(myjunk @ May 3 2010, 06:31 PM)

That is when you need to get the A900 or perhaps also jump ship...............
Like what I always mentioned, just the matter of time tongue.gif


Added on May 3, 2010, 6:42 pm
QUOTE(clivengu @ May 3 2010, 06:36 PM)
  i nvr really think of spending 5k on a 35G or A850 anytime sooner anyway... but is good to find out.
*
One thing for sure is you'll be very disappointed should you get the 35G. Skip it at all cost. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by vikingw2k: May 3 2010, 06:42 PM
ieR
post May 3 2010, 07:01 PM

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myjunk: i absolutely agree the primes have top IQ at even widest aperture vs zoom at widest aperture... well it is a fact anyway, lol.

BUT u see, there are many times, where prime makes u miss ur shot*. and entry level body tend of OOF in lowlight, or bad iso at high cause image to be unsharp,... then it lost the purpose of prime.

dont give me excuse of because F1.4 is fast lens... because, with higher end body, i can just boost iso up to 6400 and still get good shutter.

DOF? seriously, 200mm F4(beercan) has better DOF(and sharper IQ) then 50 F1.4~ jump on 200mm then~!

limiting factor? when one becomes "good enough" that the equipment is the limit? seriously this is just 'words' play, u say people push to the equip limit, others say break the barrier and go beyond... tongue.gif


clivengu: i agree with u. the circle and triangle concept is good! (but that doesnt mean u cant do it with zoom... creativity does not lies in primes only. it's limitation of both lenses, and with zoom, u get more space of creativity, perhaps instead of 50 interesting combination, u might end up with 500 on zoom lens)

vikingw2k:the F2.0 lens(zuiko, cropfactor of x2.0) give shutter speed but not bokeh, its F2.0 requires 2 stop if compare to FF, hence its like using FF + F4 len's bokeh. but with current iso tech on other major brand/body (vs olympus), shutterspeed is not a factor with high iso.


let me put a bad example of mine... lol

i brought a tamron200-400 F5.6 lens, a very old lens (non digital lens)... and i faces huge CA issue! what i did, i took a whole afternoon (hot day + hot sun, best friend of CA) to go birding, trying all sorts of setting.... push the lens(and A550 body) see how can i overcome the CA issue. brb, to be cont, late to pick up gf for movie... lol

This post has been edited by ieR: May 3 2010, 07:06 PM
zstan
post May 3 2010, 07:08 PM

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QUOTE(Braynumb @ May 3 2010, 04:00 PM)
From my POV, having a prime is a good thing to teach you about framing and finding a good angle for the picture you're about to take/make. Better yet, you can use a M42 Prime lens to teach you about focus too! But you have to remember that some photographers, even pros, don't have time to change lens from a certain focal length to another. If you're a nature/wildlife photographer, then it's a different thing.

Imagine yourself as journalism/event/fashion photographer, during and event or shooting for a story, they don't have the time or liberty to change lens every few moment coz every shot is precious to them coz it's their bread and butter. That's why fixed aperture zoom lens is their choice of lens. And for me, I'd go with the Fixed aperture Zoom rather than a prime. A few prime would be ok during a wedding shoot though... biggrin.gif
*
hmmm..i have seen some pros carrying two bodies at a same time..one telephoto and one prime lens...is that a good idea too?


Added on May 3, 2010, 7:09 pm
QUOTE(Kul | Mo0 @ May 3 2010, 05:16 PM)
My Sony strap can kill me when I hang my a700 + VG + 70200. So planning to get a Blackrapid R-strap. Got an offer for Rm110. Worth it? (:
*
my matin strap works perfectly good for me.rm50 nia..maybe cheaper..

This post has been edited by zstan: May 3 2010, 07:09 PM
Kul | Mo0
post May 3 2010, 07:16 PM

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hazril & lwliam : whistling.gif

zstan : I dont really like conventional neck straps. Might hurt after awhile. Even the Crumpler Industry Disgrace. Google the R-strap and you'll know how it works. Much more comfortable design.
Banzai_san
post May 3 2010, 07:19 PM

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QUOTE(vikingw2k @ May 3 2010, 06:04 PM)
35G is not worth to get, A850 + Siggy 50mm f1.4 is a better combo as a walkabout lens. smile.gif
*

I would choose 35mm G and A700 over A850 + Sigma 50F1.4 (if money is not a question la... biggrin.gif )
The 35mm is a G lens which optically ( I presume ) will be much superior than the Sigma 50F1.4
In terms of focal length, 35mm on APS-C is ~ 50mm on Full Frame A850.

This post has been edited by Banzai_san: May 3 2010, 07:23 PM
zstan
post May 3 2010, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(Kul | Mo0 @ May 3 2010, 07:16 PM)
hazril & lwliam : whistling.gif

zstan : I dont really like conventional neck straps. Might hurt after awhile. Even the Crumpler Industry Disgrace. Google the R-strap and you'll know how it works. Much more comfortable design.
*
well...i put mine on the whole day it's still comfortable.. smile.gif

but forgive me for forgetting..me and you totally different class. tongue.gif
hazril
post May 3 2010, 07:25 PM

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QUOTE(vikingw2k @ May 3 2010, 05:54 PM)
A850 anytime, A700 replacement will still be a cropped sensor. Might as well take a bigger hop straight to ff rather than the same cropped sensor again.
*
if go to FF,need to consider others also...many things to upgrade also...hurmm...i'll try to hold my urge 1st and see how good is the a700 replacement....
Kul | Mo0
post May 3 2010, 07:26 PM

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Banzai_san : You're so wrong. Although the 35mm f1.4G is a "G" lens. It's not worth it at all. Wait till you try the Sigma 50mm f1.4. whistling.gif
neo_lam
post May 3 2010, 07:28 PM

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QUOTE(Kul | Mo0 @ May 3 2010, 07:26 PM)
Banzai_san : You're so wrong. Although the 35mm f1.4G is a "G" lens. It's not worth it at all. Wait till you try the Sigma 50mm f1.4. whistling.gif
*
so you means tht sigma 501.4 still win 35G ?? i mean in terms of IQ...
vikingw2k
post May 3 2010, 07:34 PM

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QUOTE(hazril @ May 3 2010, 07:25 PM)
if go to FF,need to consider others also...many things to upgrade also...hurmm...i'll try to hold my urge 1st and see how good is the a700 replacement....
If you are mostly on primes, then you shouldn't be worried as most of the primes are ff ready. If zooms, then need to reconsider.

QUOTE(Kul | Mo0 @ May 3 2010, 07:26 PM)
Banzai_san : You're so wrong. Although the 35mm f1.4G is a "G" lens. It's not worth it at all. Wait till you try the Sigma 50mm f1.4. whistling.gif
*
+1

QUOTE(neo_lam @ May 3 2010, 07:28 PM)
so you means tht sigma 501.4 still win 35G ?? i mean in terms of IQ...
*
Yes yes and yes! My friend has the 35G and it went to the bin after he got himself a Siggy 50mm f1.4 HSM. He was so obsessed with G that he couldn't believe that that piece of Siggy easily owned his G. Wait till you own it someday. You'll realize it for yourself. I myself had toyed with his too. He thought he bought a lemon copy but it's still the same after he changed several copies of his 35G.
clivengu
post May 3 2010, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(vikingw2k @ May 3 2010, 06:39 PM)
I myself have my primes 95% of the time compared to zooms unless I'm shooting events due the to bokeh, sharpness and the god damn weight.
Click here for f2.0 zoom lens. Wonder when will the rest start to have it. drool.gif
Like what I always mentioned, just the matter of time tongue.gif


Added on May 3, 2010, 6:42 pm

One thing for sure is you'll be very disappointed should you get the 35G. Skip it at all cost. biggrin.gif
*
Ok tongue.gif no wonder never really heard of this lens b4. With d same price can get d cz 135mm or 85mm
Kul | Mo0
post May 3 2010, 08:00 PM

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neo_lam : No idea how the Siggy beats the 35mm la. But when I used the 35G i was like, this ain't a "G" lens! But when I used the Sigma 50mm f1.4 HSM. I was just lovestruck. XD
Banzai_san
post May 3 2010, 08:01 PM

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QUOTE(Kul | Mo0 @ May 3 2010, 07:26 PM)
Banzai_san : You're so wrong. Although the 35mm f1.4G is a "G" lens. It's not worth it at all. Wait till you try the Sigma 50mm f1.4. whistling.gif
*

I have not tried the 35mm F1.4G nor the Sigma 50mm F1.4 HSM. But reading from Dyxum lens review, my perception is that 35mm F1.4G is not as you say "not worth it at all".
At this time, my preference is still 35mm F1.4G + A700 over Sigma 50mm F1.4 HSM + A850. smile.gif (although I know I maybe wrong whistling.gif )

This post has been edited by Banzai_san: May 3 2010, 08:02 PM
Kul | Mo0
post May 3 2010, 08:05 PM

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LOL. Wait till you get hands on experience then. whistling.gif

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