just to add one thing,blaze_hit,you're entitled to have faith but it is a personal belief after all,there are more arguments against god that you can ever imagined,so do beg in mind that god is not true de facto when you insert it to explain the unknowns of science...

This post has been edited by CleverDick: Apr 12 2010, 03:43 PM

how is it possible to use science to understand god, a supernatural being. science only deal with the natural world, what can be observe and measured.

Reason always prevailed over faith. In fact, faith has caused enough trouble to humanity because it divides people into "Us" Vs "Them" mentality.

A person of faith may think this way, "My faith is correct, therefore I will go to paradise." "Other faith is wrong, they will be burn eternally in hell fire". That shows the illogicality of faith no matter from whichever angle you look at it.

"God" is not defined as some old guy up there overlooking at us, intervening into our daily affair. Rather, a scientific "God", the single principle underlying creation, the Law and Order of this universe that subjugate all scientific rules under it. If you follow the scientific rules, you will be safe. let me give you an analogy, we human has suffered from natural disasters for thousands of years. Did God played dice with us? No! We human invented scientific means to evade, predict and control the damage caused by natural disasters. In short, we progress and mature , exploring the scientific law to overcome natural disasters. Therefore, in modern nation such as Japan, they suffered a very minimal casualties as a result of earthquake because they are prepared to combat, resist and avoid the severity of the earthquake through the power of science. There are still many laws of science that yet to be discovered, this unchangeable rules can be categorized as "God".

Can you count how many times scientists(Albert Einstein being one) have been misconstrued by the mainstream and the religious types as having accepted 'their' god. SO many times. It is perhaps for the best that they avoid the term god to not confuse those with a lesser understanding of what they(the scientists) are talking about.

Recently, they spread a video in youtube about how Einstein's response to his atheistic teacher during his childhood. That video is so fake and it ended with a bogus statement like this: " Reinstating religious education in school". Some people exploited Einstein theistic belief to their own agenda. Einstein's theism or Deism has nothing to do with the conventional religions. His faith is in reason.

This post has been edited by kenmirzz: Apr 12 2010, 02:59 PM

just because you believe in something (nothing wrong with that) doesnt mean its true. and "because i say so" is not the most convincing argument in the world (unless backed with threats of violence)

glad u understand then ive deliver and tell what ive been told. My job is done. Glad to know u all, hope i can learn more. In the end the truth is just matter of opinions..

how can the truth be a matter of opinions, then there is be multiple version of the truth because everyone will have their own opinion.

you it is you who failed to understand. truth is truth regardless of opinions. the solar system is heliocentric despite popular opinion in the middle ages that it is geocentric.

and truth can only be discovered by using reasoning and analysis, it is never through faith that truth is discovered.

reasoning is "xxx happens because of yyy, zzz, aaa, and bbb"
faith is "xxx will happen because i say so"

Faith and reason can be separated. But there is no need.

Just like a person who works with the left brain and denying the right brain when both sides can very well work together.

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Added on April 13, 2010, 12:54 amYou're not looking deeply enough if your version of truth still lies in the realm of opinions.

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Added on April 13, 2010, 1:02 amYou are right because truth is never meant to be the result of faith. But only through faith would you even begin reasoning in the first place.


This post has been edited by teongpeng: Apr 13 2010, 01:02 AM

No,blade-hitz,a truth is not defined by opinions,a cat will not become a dog just because one says it's a dog,that is faith,not truth...

so someone who's faithless is brainless as well? since they cant even begin to reason...

do u reason without having faith in your facts? lol dude?

all endeavours begin with faith. all.


This post has been edited by teongpeng: Apr 13 2010, 01:55 AM

hey wait,which faith you're talking about?the one dictated by religion or what?

eh...this isnt religion thread la bro.

I'm talking about all sort of faith.

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Added on April 13, 2010, 2:18 amok ok thousand apologies. i didnt read the first page or what TS wrote at all....THIS IS a religious thread...more or less.

This post has been edited by teongpeng: Apr 13 2010, 02:19 AM

there is a difference bro...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith

This post has been edited by CleverDick: Apr 13 2010, 02:27 AM

eh? when it comes to truth for instance, when i believe A is truth but it's doesnt mean it's a truth for X. The same goes for X, if he or she believe B is true doest mean it's true for me. This is what opinions all about. That's why i said truth is matter of opinions since ppl accept truth as what is convenience for them. I might say theory of evolution is not perfect, got flaws so i dont believe in it. But X says he/she believe in the theory since it's the only explanation (or option?) that sounds logical for them. Thus, they try their best to defend their theory no matter how many flaws is it (so are we according to them since we are 'brainless' for believing in faith). Therefore, like i said earlier it's base on person's opinions. One may not accept truth since it's not for them and one may accept truth since it's for them.

In science,evidence matters the most,a proven scientific fact will not change it's validity simply because one holds a strong faith that tells him it's false,unless the objections are backed by evidence...

This post has been edited by CleverDick: Apr 13 2010, 03:34 PM

and did i said i would prefer not to believe because of faith? I made my point clear there that i dont believe simply because it have many flaws. The flaws are scientific evidences. In term of "truth is matter of opinion" even though u know there's flaws exist in such theory but u still want to believe in it since it's the most logical theory that can explain the current situation (according to u) but not for me since i believe in other theory. Thus, u have evidences for yours and i have evidences for mine. That's why im being open minded unlike those who suddenly jump into conclusion saying others are wrong just because they believe the truth lies within them alone.

This post has been edited by Blaze_hit: Apr 13 2010, 02:03 PM

wat the f***??? u blind kah???Faith lah....not religious faith. Why it had always something to with with religion.

I agree with what all you said to cleverdick