http://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingMeetingVideos
the amazing meeting channel on youtube have a lot of interesting discussion on skeptism
LYN Sceptics Club, The Thread for Sceptical Inquiry
LYN Sceptics Club, The Thread for Sceptical Inquiry
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Jul 20 2010, 06:37 PM
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Senior Member
4,027 posts Joined: Oct 2004 |
http://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingMeetingVideos
the amazing meeting channel on youtube have a lot of interesting discussion on skeptism |
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Jul 28 2010, 10:29 PM
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VIP
1,640 posts Joined: Oct 2006 |
Quiet week, but i found a letter to Malaysiakini with this interesting headline:
Gov't should investigate all UFO sightings http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/138543 QUOTE Recently, the local media and the local and foreign internet community were abuzz with the news of an UFO (unidentified flying object) sighting at a serene beach resort near the city of Kota Kinabalu in Sabah. According to the press reports, the sightings of the round blue silent flying object in the sky were witnessed by many locals and tourists. Apparently some of the people who witnessed this UFO even claimed that their handphone 'went dead' mysteriously when they tried to record the moments of the UFO with their device. Ufologists (researchers studying on UFOs) describe UFO as sightings of an object or light seen in the sky or land whose appearance, trajectory, actions, motions, lights and colors do not have a logical, conventional or natural explanation. Sightings of UFOs in Malaysia have been reported by the local media on and off over many years. The first recorded sighting of an UFO apparently took place in 1950s in Malaysia. Subsequently there have been many reports emerging in the press around the Asian region. However all these sightings remain just as another newspaper report and I have not heard of the authorities making any attempt to investigate these sightings to validate the claims. In the recent UFO sighting at the Tuaran Beach Resort in Sabah, the police according to press reports, did not undertake any investigations over the incident which created somewhat of a stir in the community. It was also reported in the press that police did not conduct any investigations on the UFO sighting as there were no police reports on the matter. Is a police report a necessity for an investigation of this nature? In my opinion, we should not brush aside or scoff at UFO sightings of this nature. The authorities, especially those involved in the national security sector, should conduct an investigation on such credible sightings immediately. We should not leave reports of UFO sightings of such nature for granted or unattended . Whatever it is the authorities should undertake an investigation to ascertain the validity of the report. A proper investigation should be carried out and situation should be explained to the public. Otherwise this will only create opportunities for the naive public and the media to speculate on the incident further. The authorities have an obligation to explain to the public what was that the people witnessed hovering in the Sabah sky that day. We need to determine wether it was actually a UFO or IFO (Identified Flying Object). If we don't have UFO expertise locally we can always seek the assistance of renown ufologist in USA and Europe According to overseas reports, 90% to 95% UFO sighting investigations were proven to be IFOs and not UFOs. Many a time it has been attributed to a natural phenomenon (unusual environmental conditions) or man-made objects. In some instances during certain times of the year due to atmospheric turbulence and unusual weather conditions, the stars near the horizon tend to twinkle rapidly in red and blue colours darting back and forth which people take as an UFO Nevertheless, all UFO sightings should be investigated by the relevant authorities to distinguish between UFOs and IFOs. It must be pointed out that of late there have been reports of UFO sighting incidents around the world that have somewhat got national security authorities worried. Prior to our latest UFO sighting in Sabah another UFO was sighted at Hangzhou, China on July 7. The sighting of this UFO practically forced the Chinese aviation security authorities to cease all airport operations for an hour. If this is a natural phenomenon or man made object will the Chinese authorities cease all operations at the airport for an hour? This latest UFO sighting in China created a stir among the Chinese media circles and apparently sparked a firestorm of speculations on the UFOs identity. Several UFO sighting reports in the past in the USA closer to nuclear missile facilities apparently created a panic among USA security chiefs when the missile panel electronics malfunctioned for no apparent reasons. Although the USA authorities have denied this incident independent UFO expert (J.Allen Hynek) reports suggest otherwise. It's time we review our perceptions of UFO sightings in the country. Evidence is emerging in bit and pieces that we are been watched by some terrestrial beings. We need to scrutinize all UFOs sightings in view of the security implications. Perhaps we should encourage our scientists, police and national aviation security personals to familiarise on the subject of UFOs. We should train them to conduct a systematic critical analysis of all UFO sightings in the country instead of brushing it off. If need be, we should consider setting up a special investigation unit perhaps under the national security council to investigate all UFO sightings. Oh lol...and hilarity ensues. He says 90 to 95 percent of UFO's are actually IFO's(attributed to natural things) but ended with there is growing evidence that we are being watched by beings. I think it's better that our goverment doesn't investigate these based on their past record with conflicting post mortems and inquiries. |
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Jul 28 2010, 11:40 PM
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Senior Member
4,027 posts Joined: Oct 2004 |
how can someone be an Ufologists, i would mean that they are expert in the unknown, what kind of BS is this. remember that UFO is unidentified flying object
this is the best part, if the alien that are capable of intergalatic travel intend to come and do harm to us, what the national security council can do with that?? these people want to find alien but military only want to identify foreign country aircraft. QUOTE we should consider setting up a special investigation unit perhaps under the national security council to investigate all UFO sightings. This post has been edited by robertngo: Jul 28 2010, 11:47 PM |
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Jul 31 2010, 02:05 AM
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Senior Member
2,708 posts Joined: Oct 2008 From: Johor Bahru |
If all you have to investigate was a shining light in the sky.. there's nothing much to investigate right? especially when you don't have any evidence besides eye witness stories...
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Oct 9 2010, 05:49 PM
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1,640 posts Joined: Oct 2006 |
Found something on Malaysiakini letters:
http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/144763 The writer started out with very convincing argument about needing a paradigm shift in Malaysian corporate culture. Until he brought up network marketing |
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Oct 9 2010, 08:35 PM
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Senior Member
2,703 posts Joined: May 2007 From: where you need wings and awakened to reach |
One thing that I am skeptic about is voodoo.... or aka witchcraft...
what we locally known as kong tao |
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Oct 12 2010, 01:58 PM
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Senior Member
1,853 posts Joined: Oct 2009 |
Sign me up to LYN skeptics.
Added on October 18, 2010, 11:07 amThis is a pretty quiet club. This post has been edited by TheDoer: Oct 18 2010, 11:07 AM |
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Oct 18 2010, 05:43 PM
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1,640 posts Joined: Oct 2006 |
QUOTE(TheDoer @ Oct 12 2010, 01:58 PM) there is no official club. Just post any news item or stuff from local media which is related to scepticism or lack of it. Such as this ->Added on October 18, 2010, 5:46 pmFinally someone in Malaysia making sense and rejecting nonsense: http://mmail.com.my/content/52572-ecigarette-just-bad QUOTE E-cigarette is 'just as bad' Health Ministry preaches caution on so-called alternative PETALING JAYA: The Health Ministry (MOH) doesn't buy claims by retailers or manufacturers of the electronic cigarette, or e-cigarette, being safer than a normal one. Deputy Health Minister Datuk Rosnah Abd. Rashid Shirlin, said: "The World Health Organisation (WHO) in its technical report regarding Electronic Nicotine Delivery Systems (ENDS) concluded the safety and extent of nicotine uptakes from this product have not been established. "There is concern this nicotine delivery to the human lung might result in stronger toxicological, physiological and addictive effects, and this must be addressed in scientific studies. "ENDS are not nicotine replacement therapy to assist smokers quit tobacco. Instead, ENDS might be used to perpetuate smoking by sustaining nicotine dependence in environments where smoking is prohibited." The e-cigarette is being touted by the product manufacturers and importers to be the healthier and safer way for smokers to get their nicotine fix than a regular cigarette. While a regular cigarette contains over 4,000 types of harmful chemicals such as tobacco, tar and nicotine, they claim an e-cigarette only contains the latter. Rosnah added that nicotine is listed as a Group C Poison within the Poisons Act 1952 (Act 366), where it can only be sold or supplied by an authorised licensed individual under the provisions of Section 22. "All products containing poisons listed in Group C must first be registered with the MOH Drug Control Authority before it can be marketed. None of the e-cigarette nicotine products in the market has been registered. "The public are strongly advised not to purchase any e-cigarette, which is very costly. The product on sale now is not legal and more importantly, there is a major lack of certainty with regards to its safety and effectiveness." Rosnah added that the MOH Pharmaceutical Services are planning legal action to curb sales of e-cigarettes. Less harmful nicotine fix, say traders PETALING JAYA: An e-cigarette retailer insists the product is known to help smokers who have the intention to quit smoking. E-Cig Trading director Allen Foo said: "It works just like a nicotine patch and nicotine gum which is to give user the nicotine fix. "But, there's more to smoking than just getting the nicotine fix. There is a certain fixation about smoking: The way you hold the cigarette, the puffing and seeing the smoke coming out of your mouth. "The e-cigarette offers the same smoking experience: You hold it like a cigarette, you puff it like you do a cigarette, and you'll see 'smoke' coming out of your mouth like a cigarette. Except that it's not a smoke, it's vapour." Foo said some of his customers have managed to quit smoking two months after switching to e-cigarette. "Once they get used to the e-cigarette, they get uncomfortable with the smell of regular cigarette fumes. So, they will stop smoking the regular cigarette for good. Following that, they switched to the low-nicotine cartridge and eventually they will stop needing the nicotine fix." Foo explained the time taken to quit smoking varies from one customer to another. "Smokers know smoking is bad for health. But, it's not the nicotine which makes smoking harmful. Nicotine is like caffeine to a coffee drinker: It's addictive. The e-cigarette is an alternative for those who need the nicotine fix with minimal damage to their body and those around them." The battery-powered, non-flammable device claims to provide a smoking experience without the danger of fire, flame, tar, carbon monoxide and other harmful substances found in a regular cigarette. Instead of smoke, the device releases vapour, which contains vaporised nicotine and is delivered straight to the blood stream via the lungs, giving the smoker an instant fix. It is also claimed the odourless vapour allows the smoker to smoke in a closed-environment without causing discomfort to others in the same room. One e-cigarette user, Philip Oon, said he switched to the e-cigarette because his wife doesn't allow him to smoke inside the house and would scold him if he does. "It took me awhile to get used to it and I would smoke up to two cartridges a day. Now, I've managed to reduce it to one cartridge a day. One cartridge would cost me RM3 and it saves me RM7 everyday as I often used to smoke a 20-cigarette pack a day." Each cartridge is equivalent to 15 to 40 cigarette sticks or 100-150 puffs, depending on the brand and make. The e-cigarette starter pack cost ranges between RM40 and RM350, depending on the brand and model. A nicotine-free flavoured cartridge is also available for sisha smokers. How does the product work? While a regular cigarette contains over 4,000 harmful chemicals — including 43 cancer-causing (carcinogenic) compounds, an e-cigarette claims to contain only water, nicotine, propylene glycol, and flavouring that emulates the cigarette flavour. The e-cigarette is made up of three components — the battery, an atomiser (or vapouriser) and the cartridge. The product works when a smoker inhales at the end of the cartridge whichs hold the nicotine. The atomiser then heats up the nicotine into vapour form. The smoker then inhales the odorless nicotine vapour like they would inhale smoke from a regular cigarette. An orange LED will light on the other end of the cigarette to imitate the actual smoking experience. Association of Standards Users: A fag is a fag PETALING JAYA: Malaysian Association of Standards Users chief executive officer N. Ratna Devi feels Malaysia shouldn't allow e-cigarettes to be made available here, since The World Health Organisation (WHO) does not endorse the product as a replacement therapy for nicotine or smoking. Stating Malaysia should apply a similar principle, she said: "This is to ensure the safety of potential users. "WHO has stated no rigorous, peer-reviewed studies have been conducted showing the e-cigarette is a safe and effective nicotine replacement therapy. The purchase of e-cigarette should be strictly governed. "Since the component being consumed is nicotine, the Drug Control Authority should play a leading role," said Ratna, adding that cigarettes of any kind is harmful to health. Electronic cigarettes are banned in: ● Australia ● Brazil ● Canada ● Denmark ● Finland ● Israel ● Italy ● Mexico ● New Zealand ● Norway ● Panama ● Singapore ● Taiwan ● United Kingdom This post has been edited by frags: Oct 18 2010, 05:46 PM |
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Oct 20 2010, 09:26 AM
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Senior Member
4,515 posts Joined: Mar 2010 |
I am a smoker and I did not buy the e-cigarette.
1) Smoking cigs, I know when I had finished a stick. I know I had my fix and will smoke the next cigs when the urge comes. With this e-cig there is no way of telling when to stop inhaling and wait for the next cycle. In all likelyhood, I may end up smoking more. This is the first point to my skepticism. 2) I am just wondering about the effect of inhaling only nicotine (as they claim). This is not tried. The result (short and long term effect) had yet undergo proper study. So, I am not going to be the guine pig. 3) It is turning me for a cig addict to a pure nicotine addict. Nicotine is addictive. |
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Oct 20 2010, 11:49 AM
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Senior Member
1,853 posts Joined: Oct 2009 |
I've not heard of e-cigs before, is this the same as nicotine patches? In Western TV, they are promoted as a means to stop smoking... don't really know how true they are.
Would be good though if young ones don't start smoking. Added on October 20, 2010, 11:54 amhum.. perhaps they should have the reverse? non-addictive cigs, using other leaves instead of tobacco, trick your friends to think you smoke. With a disclaimer on the box: you don't need to smoke to be cool, but if smoking is all it takes to be cool, why not smoke one of these? It's like a one night stand. This post has been edited by TheDoer: Oct 20 2010, 11:55 AM |
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Oct 20 2010, 12:14 PM
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Senior Member
4,027 posts Joined: Oct 2004 |
e-cigs i think will reduce the harm for other people since there is no second hand smoke, the effect on the smoker himself will still need to wait for more study to be done.
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Oct 20 2010, 01:35 PM
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Senior Member
2,509 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
It would be cool if we had a Malaysian version of snopes.com. I bet we can fill it up with entries like Air Zam-Zam (the commercialized bottled version not the actual water from the well).
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Oct 20 2010, 02:18 PM
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Senior Member
3,796 posts Joined: Nov 2008 |
It may be less harmful but how much of the unabsorbed nicotine are exhaled? But I think it won't replace the burning cig because nicotine is not what draw people to smoke in the first place, its the act.
Maybe it reduce gov tax which is the inconvenient truth. |
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Oct 20 2010, 09:11 PM
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Junior Member
78 posts Joined: Sep 2010 From: penang |
cool, we need this to raise awareness of our people from being fooled, a what we've seen quite often haha
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Oct 22 2010, 09:54 PM
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All Stars
14,990 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
QUOTE(TheDoer @ Oct 20 2010, 11:49 AM) I've not heard of e-cigs before, is this the same as nicotine patches? In Western TV, they are promoted as a means to stop smoking... don't really know how true they are. If you have the type of personality that gets addicted to things, everything you do will be addictive. You can get addicted to posting in forums or water just as easily as you can get addicted to coffee or cigarettes. So let's not blame cigarettes or alcohol or whatever when it's people that get addicted to them.Would be good though if young ones don't start smoking. Added on October 20, 2010, 11:54 amhum.. perhaps they should have the reverse? non-addictive cigs, using other leaves instead of tobacco, trick your friends to think you smoke. With a disclaimer on the box: you don't need to smoke to be cool, but if smoking is all it takes to be cool, why not smoke one of these? It's like a one night stand. This post has been edited by wodenus: Oct 22 2010, 09:55 PM |
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Oct 25 2010, 10:22 AM
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Senior Member
1,853 posts Joined: Oct 2009 |
QUOTE(wodenus @ Oct 22 2010, 09:54 PM) If you have the type of personality that gets addicted to things, everything you do will be addictive. You can get addicted to posting in forums or water just as easily as you can get addicted to coffee or cigarettes. So let's not blame cigarettes or alcohol or whatever when it's people that get addicted to them. True, but we don't get restless because we have no access to our forums, unless we've just read something that we really want to reply to. Whatever it is, kids really need to avoid being hooked on smoking, cause it's an expensive, and harmful habit. |
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Oct 25 2010, 05:52 PM
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Senior Member
2,041 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
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Nov 2 2010, 09:21 PM
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Senior Member
2,509 posts Joined: Jan 2003 |
Just wanted to drop this link here:
RationalWiki http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page QUOTE Our purpose here at RationalWiki includes: 1. Analyzing and refuting pseudoscience and the anti-science movement. 2. Documenting the full range of crank ideas. 3. Explorations of authoritarianism and fundamentalism. 4. Analysis and criticism of how these subjects are handled in the media. Added on November 2, 2010, 9:23 pm QUOTE(malayneum @ Oct 25 2010, 05:52 PM) It has "religious powers" and since it deals with Islam I'm not going to talk about it because it might be sensitive to Muslims. But you can have a start by reading about it:http://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telaga_Zam-Zam QUOTE Kerajaan Arab Saudi yang menjaga bumi Hijaz and Mekah melarang air zam daripada dieksport. Air zamzam hanya boleh dibotolkan dan boleh didapati di kebanyakan negara kini. Air zamzam yang dibotolkan ini tidak lagi 100 % tulen, telah dicampurkan dengan air sumber lain atau mungkin telah tercemar.Ada yang mengambil kesempatan dengan menjual pada harga yang tidak munsabah. This post has been edited by ray123: Nov 2 2010, 09:23 PM |
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Nov 14 2010, 04:29 AM
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Senior Member
943 posts Joined: Apr 2008 From: Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia. |
Skeptics, or else known as RATIONAL thinkers.
LOL. Seriously. What are you people to philosophers, who thinks rationality is nothing more than all things superficial around us? You work and live with superficiality, hence rationality gets its meaning. But why brag about your rationality, when you know it is rationally impossible to argue with the irrational? Is that rational, or completely contradictory about rationality? This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Nov 14 2010, 04:31 AM |
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Nov 14 2010, 06:13 PM
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1,640 posts Joined: Oct 2006 |
QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Nov 14 2010, 04:29 AM) Skeptics, or else known as RATIONAL thinkers. No ones bragging about rationality. We only analyse news written locally. As for philosophical discussions. Start a new thread.LOL. Seriously. What are you people to philosophers, who thinks rationality is nothing more than all things superficial around us? You work and live with superficiality, hence rationality gets its meaning. But why brag about your rationality, when you know it is rationally impossible to argue with the irrational? Is that rational, or completely contradictory about rationality? |
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