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 Any embedded programmer?, As title ...

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xboxrockers
post Jun 14 2018, 02:08 AM

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Interesting.. where is embedded guys nowadays ?
golden9
post Jun 14 2018, 10:22 PM

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Are youngsters nowadays more on other areas such as web development rather than embedded development? Seems like very few people are doing embedded development...
xboxrockers
post Jun 15 2018, 04:53 AM

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QUOTE(golden9 @ Jun 14 2018, 10:22 PM)
Are youngsters nowadays more on other areas such as web development rather than embedded development? Seems like very few people are doing embedded development...
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yeah i think so.. but me youngster lol but full time and stubborn with embedded system.

I am doing design and consultation on ES, wow shit man i need to wait for projects... when it's there then rclxm9.gif rclxm9.gif

Web/App development easy to do freelance job and it's paid well. And projects usually not very long...

This post has been edited by xboxrockers: Jun 15 2018, 04:54 AM
golden9
post Jun 15 2018, 09:44 PM

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QUOTE(xboxrockers @ Jun 15 2018, 04:53 AM)
yeah i think so.. but me youngster lol but full time and stubborn with embedded system.

I am doing design and consultation on ES, wow shit man i need to wait for projects... when it's there then  rclxm9.gif  rclxm9.gif

Web/App development easy to do freelance job and it's paid well. And projects usually not very long...
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Is it a less stable job than web/app development?
golden9
post Jun 15 2018, 09:47 PM

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QUOTE(mikaelatan @ Jun 15 2018, 03:07 PM)
I am interested in embedded development. I could code x86 asm or graphics app in C/C++ but due to lack of opportunities, I am forced to take webdev or other types of software development jobs.

Not helping are the arrogance of the technical interviewers who refused to look at my previous projects done in C/C++ and asm.

So I gave up looking at this area because of prejudice from interviewers. They're only interested in hiring their own Computer Science/Engineering graduates and always conduct leetcode/hackerrank style interviews.

So if embedded software industry can't find enough interested applicants, please don't blame us. Blame your own hiring process and your engineers who enjoy hazing us with leetcode style interviews.

We're not so free to read 'cracking the coding' interview for 6 months just to pass your silly interview tests.
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I know a lot of CS graduates who dislike the embedded systems area.....It makes more sense for them to go to web/app development since it is relatively easier and there's more money there.
If I were a CS graduate, I will also choose web/app development. Why go through the tough hassle of embedded systems...
xboxrockers
post Jun 15 2018, 11:17 PM

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QUOTE(golden9 @ Jun 15 2018, 09:44 PM)
Is it a less stable job than web/app development?
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Yes i would say yes if you do freelancing concept. That's why I am moving towards something like contract manufacturing. something that the value scales when it goes to production.
xboxrockers
post Jun 15 2018, 11:31 PM

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QUOTE(golden9 @ Jun 14 2018, 10:22 PM)
Are youngsters nowadays more on other areas such as web development rather than embedded development? Seems like very few people are doing embedded development...
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are you still digging in Embedded system ?
rd33
post Jun 18 2018, 11:57 PM

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There are still bunch of embedded programmers in Malaysia especially at Penang.

This field is quite niche I would say, and I have seen many HR/talent sourcing are struggling to hire good embedded programmers.

In embedded one usually need to know both software and hardware.

I think embedded industry should be in demand in the next few years due to IoT trending. But I am not sure just my speculation.
eclectice
post Jul 8 2018, 12:05 PM

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Currently hacked Kinetis SDK 2.0 from Freescale (now NXP) to support the missing Cortex-M4 core based Kinetis K70 family (EOL 2026) which is currently used for our coming radio communication product with an RTOS. Done power management codes with STM32 L07. Last time programmed STM32 L04 but needed to be stringent with its limited RAM usage and couldn't apply RTOS on it. BDM device is a customized box with ST-LINK and I-Jet.

The IDE is IAR Systems' Embedded Workbench for ARM (currently version 8) locked via a USB dongle license lock; it is really expensive and we pay the annual support every year to get the latest versions. My version comes with C-RUN an C-STAT.

Our coding style is using standard C99 with OOA in mind using the concept of "class" and "methods" mappings to avoid the spaghetti coding and for easier search and referencing with our IDE (however the latest version is kinda broken for an unknown reason). For some insights, we don't opt for C++ to avoid a steep learning curve for our newbie programmers. For revision control, we are using Subversion to manage in-house development codes.

I also code a few Android apps and Linux and Windows applications to remote control with our embedded products via Ethernet and USB serial. The language of choice is Java (with JNA and JNI) even though I did some in Python. Sometimes, did some batch scripts with Powershell to automate something with Google Protobuf tools for embedded (Nanopb).

Interestingly, I am just a graduate in IT which focuses more on games, multimedia and databases, not from the pure engineering faculty.

In the past, I used to work with companies doing Oracle database programming (P/SQL) and did a commercial HR application using Borland Object Pascal (Delphi).

My special interest is mainly in TCP/IP networking but it seems it is getting less used in the current project.

This post has been edited by eclectice: Jul 8 2018, 12:26 PM
WinkyJr
post Jul 10 2018, 04:03 PM

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i think u guys just like our guys in automation department. dunno what they do but they keep our company's palm oil mill running la.
red_satu
post Jul 20 2018, 08:50 AM

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QUOTE(rd33 @ Jun 18 2018, 11:57 PM)
There are still bunch of embedded programmers in Malaysia especially at Penang.

This field is quite niche I would say, and I have seen many HR/talent sourcing are struggling to hire good embedded programmers.

In embedded one usually need to know both software and hardware.

I think embedded industry should be in demand in the next few years due to IoT trending. But I am not sure just my speculation.
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Chiming in here. My company in Penang has a hard time finding experienced Embedded Software Engineers and the package offered was not attractive enough to lure in the old timer. Had to resort to hire fresh grads and train them up. Or get CS grads and train them on the HW.

Just to intro, learnt Intel 8051/8085 uC and uPs back in Uni. Played around with some Arduino stuff.

Now at work mostly working with Renesas chips. Eventhough I've been working here for just a few years, I can already see the job scope changed so much over the last ten years (still had to maintain some of the old products). When the company was using the 8-bit MCUs, the SW Eng. team was expected to implement both the functionality and integrate the driver stacks so HW knowledge is a much. Pretty much the same when we switched over to 16-bit but the focus was less on getting the system running, but more on functionality. Now already using 32-bit and 64-bit MCUs and the driver/OS stack becomes too complicated for a small SW engineering team to handle. So now slowly going to the route of SW engineer doesn't really have to know the hardware, which is a shame.
chibiheroes
post Jul 20 2018, 06:00 PM

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Started with pic16f877a, then played with fpga xilinx, currently i'm into arduino and raspberry pi. I don't usually do embedded stuff because too much work and not much money in it, web app development pays much much more and no need to do hardware integration much.

Necroing threads for fun and profit biggrin.gif
rd33
post Jul 20 2018, 07:48 PM

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QUOTE(chibiheroes @ Jul 20 2018, 06:00 PM)
Started with pic16f877a, then played with fpga xilinx, currently i'm into arduino and raspberry pi. I don't usually do embedded stuff because too much work and not much money in it, web app development pays much much more and no need to do hardware integration much.

Necroing threads for fun and profit  biggrin.gif
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Yup, I agree with you cannot make easy money out of embedded/firmware development. Either sell embedded hardware (which requires capital), do freelance project, work in a company, or teaching.

Do web app or mobile app better profit. 1 mobile app can easily earn 5 to 6 figures.
askmestuff
post Jul 27 2018, 03:48 PM

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QUOTE(red_satu @ Jul 20 2018, 08:50 AM)
Chiming in here. My company in Penang has a hard time finding experienced Embedded Software Engineers and the package offered was not attractive enough to lure in the old timer. Had to resort to hire fresh grads and train them up. Or get CS grads and train them on the HW.

Just to intro, learnt Intel 8051/8085 uC and uPs back in Uni. Played around with some Arduino stuff.

Now at work mostly working with Renesas chips. Eventhough I've been working here for just a few years, I can already see the job scope changed so much over the last ten years (still had to maintain some of the old products). When the company was using the 8-bit MCUs, the SW Eng. team was expected to implement both the functionality and integrate the driver stacks so HW knowledge is a much. Pretty much the same when we switched over to 16-bit but the focus was less on getting the system running, but more on functionality. Now already using 32-bit and 64-bit MCUs and the driver/OS stack becomes too complicated for a small SW engineering team to handle. So now slowly going to the route of SW engineer doesn't really have to know the hardware, which is a shame.
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I would not call this a shame. Abstraction is a requirement as we deal with increasing complexities, and nowadays, you can't expect a single person to know everything.

I started with Motorolla uC's in assembly in Uni, and moved to Hitachi SuperH, but nowadays days, I prefer to deploy a nodejs stack into docker, which I can run in a < 1W SBC.

I call this progress. Also, as you said, Embedded does not pay well rclxs0.gif
red_satu
post Jul 27 2018, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(askmestuff @ Jul 27 2018, 03:48 PM)
I would not call this a shame. Abstraction is a requirement as we deal with increasing complexities, and nowadays, you can't expect a single person to know everything.

I started with Motorolla uC's in assembly in Uni, and moved to Hitachi SuperH, but nowadays days, I prefer to deploy a nodejs stack into docker, which I can run in a < 1W SBC.

I call this progress. Also, as you said, Embedded does not pay well  rclxs0.gif
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Depends on the field I guess. I am not too familiar with it but js and SBCs are definitely overkill for our applications right now.

Progress is always welcome, but at the same time I have seen situations that dragged on longer than necessary just because some engineers don't know how to probe MCU pins to figure out what's going wrong.

xboxrockers
post Jul 28 2018, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(rd33 @ Jul 20 2018, 07:48 PM)
Yup, I agree with you cannot make easy money out of embedded/firmware development. Either sell embedded hardware (which requires capital), do freelance project, work in a company, or teaching.

Do web app or mobile app better profit. 1 mobile app can easily earn 5 to 6 figures.
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I am facing this too my pace is going as get 1 project survive few months with no projects... Lot of inquiries and meeting in between but successful rate is low
Kanan Jarrus
post Jul 29 2018, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(xboxrockers @ Jul 28 2018, 12:34 PM)
I am facing this too my pace is going as get 1 project survive few months with no projects... Lot of inquiries and meeting in between but successful rate is low
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last time i checked you dropped out of MMU, and now you're here starting your own startup, that's something else.

with that being said, what's on your radar next? wanna venture into web development/mobile apps development, or stick to what you're doing currently? hmm.gif
xboxrockers
post Jul 30 2018, 12:13 AM

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QUOTE(Kanan Jarrus @ Jul 29 2018, 01:30 PM)
last time i checked you dropped out of MMU, and now you're here starting your own startup, that's something else.

with that being said, what's on your radar next? wanna venture into web development/mobile apps development, or stick to what you're doing currently? hmm.gif
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There are few projects i am bidding, if that comes in I can survive quite long. Probably will stick to this field cos I like electronics
System Error Message
post Jul 31 2018, 06:09 AM

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embedded programming is not so bad, most of them use C language so even a normal programmer can also do. Web programmer does not count.

A lot of programmers nowadays are bought on the idea of frameworks to do their work, this is a very poor choice. This is where programmers like embedded and other such programmers differ, an example could be an openCL programmer too which while many libraries exists, no frameworks do to change the way you code on it. Same with app development, rather than use the tools provided by manufacturer people go and use web programming for it and get bad quality apps, i mean just look at grab, it barely works compared to uber. Even the business and how you pay embedded programmers differ too, you cant cheap out on this either (too many people cheap out on app design so their app quality sucks).

Arduino is very different from embedded programming in the industry, i remember someone mentioning freescale boards and another system.


QUOTE(Kanan Jarrus @ Jul 29 2018, 01:30 PM)
with that being said, what's on your radar next? wanna venture into web development/mobile apps development, or stick to what you're doing currently? hmm.gif
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Web development is not similar or the same as app development, if you dont get that in your head and do app development you are going to make really bad quality apps.

With embedded programming you can have all sorts of fun with the hardware, like running a pi benchmark with no OS overhead just for fun to see what its capable off or blow up chips like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ7pUADoo58
xboxrockers
post Aug 3 2018, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(System Error Message @ Jul 31 2018, 06:09 AM)
embedded programming is not so bad, most of them use C language so even a normal programmer can also do. Web programmer does not count.

A lot of programmers nowadays are bought on the idea of frameworks to do their work, this is a very poor choice. This is where programmers like embedded and other such programmers differ, an example could be an openCL programmer too which while many libraries exists, no frameworks do to change the way you code on it. Same with app development, rather than use the tools provided by manufacturer people go and use web programming for it and get bad quality apps, i mean just look at grab, it barely works compared to uber. Even the business and how you pay embedded programmers differ too, you cant cheap out on this either (too many people cheap out on app design so their app quality sucks).

Arduino is very different from embedded programming in the industry, i remember someone mentioning freescale boards and another system.
Web development is not similar or the same as app development, if you dont get that in your head and do app development you are going to make really bad quality apps.

With embedded programming you can have all sorts of fun with the hardware, like running a pi benchmark with no OS overhead just for fun to see what its capable off or blow up chips like here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ7pUADoo58
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the video is funny... As long hardware guys done good job on their circuit nothing will smoke out in most cases...

 

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