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History The ULTIMATE World War II Thread, D-Day is Upon Us!

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TSfrags
post Mar 22 2010, 06:38 PM, updated 16y ago

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This thread is dedicated to the discussion of all things World War II. If you have a question on the politics, battles, weaponry, just about anything WWII, ask away here. This thread isn't about the promotion of any propaganda but merely an academic discussion. Yes you can discuss about nazi propaganda and the transformation of Germany. Just keep away from stereotyping groups of people and look at things in the context of that time period.

Let me start with this amazing propaganda film from propaganda master Goebbels. The famous Totaller Krieg(Total War) speech that inflamed the National Socialist party and plunged the world into a World War.




Added on March 22, 2010, 6:41 pmWinston Churchill's Battle of Britain speech.




Added on March 22, 2010, 6:51 pmA little documentary about the Spanish Civil War which was the prelude to World War II.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7aEG__LZ3g

Essentially a proxy war between the fascists, nationalist socialist party and communists.


Added on March 22, 2010, 7:08 pmHere are a few iconic photos of WWII.

The raising of the flag over Mount Suribachi at Iwo Jima
user posted image

The day which will live in infamy(Pearl Harbour)
user posted image

A famous photo of a Russian soldier raising the Soviet flag over the Reichstag after that Battle of Berlin
user posted image

This photo was identified as a doctored image much later:

QUOTE
Stepan Andreyevich Neustroyev commanded the battalion that stormed the Reichstag in 1945 and hoisted the flag over the building. This is one of the most famous images of World War Two and only in 1997 did it become known that the photo had been doctored. Photographer Khaldei had made the flag in the photograph himself from red tablecloths from Tass, the Soviet press agency, emblazoned with the Soviet hammer and sickle. Erich Kuby's book The Russians and Berlin, page 60, says:
It seems strange that the Russians should have looked upon the Reichstag, ... now an empty piece of masonry, its windows and doors bricked up, as the symbol of Germany. ... Mednikov describes this historic action in great detail:

"About noon on April 28 [1945], one of our battalions advanced on the Spree. At the same time the commander of the regiment, Col. F.M. Zinchenko, took charge of a red banner ... expressly set aside for planting on the dome. It was Red Banner No. 5 of the [150th Rifle Division] 3rd Shock Army ... [it was] twenty-three-year-old Capt. Stefan Andreyevich Noystroev men [who] battled their way into the building, fighting for every room and corridor. ... Noystroev ordered a shock detachment commanded by Lt. Berest to escort the two standard-bearers ... [who] took nearly half a day to reach the dome. At 10:50 p.m. on April 30, the banner of victory was unfurled over the Reichstag."


An MG42 gunner(German soldier) possibly taken in the Eastern Front campaigns.
user posted image


Added on March 22, 2010, 8:00 pmuser posted image

QUOTE
By nine in the morning, the sightseeing was finished. “It was the dream of my life to be permitted to see Paris,” Hitler told Speer. “I cannot say how happy I am to have that dream fulfilled today.”

A few hours later, Hitler spoke to Speer in the Führer field headquarters, a small room of a peasant house in Brûly de Pesche. “Draw up a decree in my name ordering full-scale resumption of work on the Berlin buildings...Wasn’t Paris beautiful? But Berlin must be made far more beautiful. In the past I often considered whether we would have to destroy Paris. But when we are finished in Berlin, Paris will only be a shadow. So why should we destroy it?” Hitler spoke with great calm, Speer remembered, as though the monstrous vandalism he contemplated was the most natural thing in the world.


Source: http://www.stevenlehrer.com/paris.htm

This post has been edited by frags: Jun 4 2010, 09:33 PM
TSfrags
post Mar 22 2010, 10:25 PM

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QUOTE(Fatimus @ Mar 22 2010, 10:16 PM)
I always see that Western Front has the most attention, I blame it on media.

Eastern Front (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II))

EF features some of the brutal battles and few mistakes made by both Hitler and Stalin. However I can't help but feel amazed how the Soviet beat back the Blitzkrieg from the Krauts parked their army right in front of Moscow's door step in winter all the way to Berlin to end the war.

North Africa Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_African_Campaign)

Another lesser known campaign that pit British Commonwealth against the Afrika Corps.

Last but not least.

Pacific Campaign (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_campaign)

With US leading against the Imperial Japan. BTW HBO new mini series The Pacific, brought to you by makers of Band of Brothers, is now airing, currently on part 2.
*
The eastern front also featured the largest tank battle ever(I can't verify this though), Battle of Kursk.

German : 435,000 men
3,155 tanks
9,966 guns and mortars
2,110 aircraft

Russians: 1,087,500 men
3,275 tanks
25,013 guns and mortars
2,792 aircraft

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk

On the Russian strategy, they employed encirclement. Superior logistics, mobility to encircle and cut off German supply lines. The most famous and brutal demonstration of this was the Stalingrad battle in which they starved the Germans out.

user posted image
German Infantry men and a Tiger I tank.




Added on March 22, 2010, 10:28 pm
QUOTE(Alone @ Mar 22 2010, 10:23 PM)
The raising of the flag over Mount Suribachi at Iwo Jima

^ this should be the "fake" flag raising event. The real flag raisers were off deeper into the island killing each other by now. The new recruits raised this backup flag and kept the real one.
*
Yes I think this has been covered well enough. This was the dramatised version. There is the first flag picture floating somewhere in cyberspace. I'll post it up when I have found it.

This post has been edited by frags: Mar 22 2010, 10:45 PM
TSfrags
post Mar 22 2010, 10:39 PM

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QUOTE(Alone @ Mar 22 2010, 10:23 PM)
The raising of the flag over Mount Suribachi at Iwo Jima

^ this should be the "fake" flag raising event. The real flag raisers were off deeper into the island killing each other by now. The new recruits raised this backup flag and kept the real one.
*
This is said to be the first raising of the flag over Mt Suribachi

user posted image

Source : http://www.angelfire.com/ca/dickg/IWO.html

This post has been edited by frags: Mar 22 2010, 10:49 PM
TSfrags
post Mar 25 2010, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(JunWisewar @ Mar 25 2010, 04:12 AM)
In Eastern Front, the so called invincible pan-European army led by the Nazi Germany become defeat-able. Thanks to the ferocity of the Soviet's resistance and counter-attack. Also inactivity of Imperial Japan against Soviet Union.
Hope people don't forget or belittle the role of the Soviet's heroic Red Army....
*
And also, we shouldn't forget the role Stalin played in the extermination of Polish prisoners of war. All of them murdered on the order of Stalin himself. One of the many atrocities during WWII.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre
TSfrags
post Mar 25 2010, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(JunWisewar @ Mar 25 2010, 03:49 PM)
Wonder why you bring this up....Any reason? Any motives? The usual steps of trying to negate the contribution of the Soviet Red Army in defeating the Axis?  Or you dislike the truth that it was actually the heroic and notorious Soviet Red Army are the deciding factor of the Axis downfall? icon_idea.gif 

Never let atrocities over-shadowed contribution and vice versa. Remember both of them. Soviet Red Army major contribution in defeating the Axis should not be brush a side just because of some atrocities committed by them. American GI also did terrible things but I don't see you post them up here.
Also, a decision of a sadistic man over-shadowed the contribution of the soldiers fighting for their motherland  in the battlefront......tragic.  sad.gif
*
Oh yes of course. But we must also remember all the atrocities. I do plan to post about all the atrocities done, Americans included. Hey they dropped the bomb remember. Sure we must remember the heroic as well as the those that died valiantly or tragically.

That's WWII. And hopefully we learn something from all this. Well we can hope.

PS : Some of the images I might post later might be NSFW, so a fair warning.
TSfrags
post Mar 25 2010, 04:44 PM

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Operation Market Garden

One of the major epic fails of WWII. Bernard Montgomery spurred by his victory against the Desert Fox(Erwin Rommel), oversaw this operation.

user posted image

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Market_Garden


The site below has a really good pictorial account of operation market garden.
http://www.rememberseptember44.com/rs44.htm

QUOTE
Operation Market Garden (September 17–25, 1944) was an Allied military operation, fought in the Netherlands and Germany in World War II. It was the largest airborne operation of all time.[nb 3]

The operation plan's strategic context required the seizure of bridges across the Maas (Meuse River) and two arms of the Rhine (the Waal and the Lower Rhine) as well as several smaller canals and tributaries. Crossing the Lower Rhine would allow the Allies to outflank the Siegfried Line and encircle the Ruhr, Germany's industrial heartland. It made large-scale use of airborne forces whose tactical objectives were to secure a series of bridges over the main rivers of the German-occupied Netherlands and allow a rapid advance by armoured units into Northern Germany.

Initially the operation was successful and several bridges between Eindhoven and Nijmegen were captured. However the ground force's advance was delayed by the demolition of a bridge over the Wilhelmina Canal at Son,[7] delaying the capture of the main road bridge over the Meuse until September 20. At Arnhem the British 1st Airborne Division encountered far stronger resistance than anticipated. In the ensuing battle only a small force managed to hold one end of the Arnhem road bridge and after the ground forces failed to relieve them they were overrun on the 21st. The rest of the division, trapped in a small pocket west of the bridge, had to be evacuated on the 25th. The Allies had failed to cross the Rhine in sufficient force, and the Rhine remained a barrier to their advance until the offensives at Remagen, Oppenheim, Rees and Wesel in March 1945.


This post has been edited by frags: Mar 25 2010, 04:49 PM
TSfrags
post Mar 27 2010, 04:37 PM

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A little short history of the Nazi Party:

QUOTE
The Nazis grew out of a small right-wing party, which Hitler took over after 1919.   He developed a Twenty-Five Point Programme based on hatred, and built up a paramilitary group (the SA) to defend his meetings and attack other parties.
      
The Nazis appealed to a wide range of people, but especially the 'middling' sort of people, and the party grew rapidly in the years of crisis 1919-1923.

       After the disaster of the Munich Putsch, and during the prosperity of the Stresemann years, however, support for the Nazis fell.   During this time Hitler believed that he could be elected to power.   He used these years to develop and strengthen the party's organisation.




QUOTE
The German Workers’ Party, led by Anton Drexler, was formed in 1919.   Hitler joined and soon became leader.   His speeches gave people scapegoats to blame for Germany’s problems:
•      The Allies.
•      The Versailles Treaty and the ‘November Criminals’ (the politicians who signed it).
•      The Communists, and:
•      The Jews.


Src: http://www.johndclare.net/Weimar6.htm


Mein Kampf

QUOTE
And so it follows in Hitler's thinking, if there is a supreme form of human, then there must be others less than supreme, the Untermenschen, or racially inferior. Hitler assigns this position to Jews and the Slavic peoples, notably the Czechs, Poles, and Russians.

"...it (Nazi philosophy) by no means believes in an equality of races, but along with their difference it recognizes their higher or lesser value and feels itself obligated to promote the victory of the better and stronger, and demand the subordination of the inferior and weaker in accordance with the eternal will that dominates this universe." - Hitler states in Mein Kampf

Hitler then states the Aryan is also culturally superior.

"All the human culture, all the results of art, science, and technology that we see before us today, are almost exclusively the creative product of the Aryan..."


Src: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/kampf2.htm




This post has been edited by frags: Mar 27 2010, 04:47 PM
TSfrags
post May 27 2010, 04:47 PM

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Remembering Dunkirk

The Battle Of Dunkirk begined on 26th May 1940 marked the beginning of Hitler's dominance of Europe. The British, French and allied forces having failed to defend France against the Nazi invasion, fell back to the beaches of Dunkirk. There they were seiged by Hitler's forces and rescue boats were attacked by the Luftwaffe. A desperate moment in British history, many civilians joined together with the navy to help bring back the boys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation
QUOTE
On the first day, only 7,010 men were evacuated, but by the ninth day, a total of 338,226 soldiers (198,229 British and 139,997 French)[2] had been rescued by the hastily assembled fleet of 850 boats. Many of the troops were able to embark from the harbour's protective mole onto 42 British destroyers and other large ships, while others had to wade from the beaches toward the ships, waiting for hours to board, shoulder-deep in water. Others were ferried from the beaches to the larger ships, and thousands were carried back to England by the famous "little ships of Dunkirk", a flotilla of around 700 merchant marine boats, fishing boats, pleasure craft and Royal National Lifeboat Institution lifeboats—the smallest of which was the 15-foot fishing boat Tamzine, now in the Imperial War Museum—whose civilian crews were called into service for the emergency. The "miracle of the little ships" remains a prominent folk memory in Britain.


The evacuation was spun as a major victory and British propaganda labeled it as the Dunkirk Spirit.




Still the best damn WWII documentary:


Of course this was the time also when Churchill delivered his famous speech 'We shall fight on the beaches'.

This post has been edited by frags: May 27 2010, 04:58 PM
TSfrags
post May 27 2010, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(mylife4nerzhul @ May 27 2010, 05:00 PM)
Pretty obvious stuff. I find it hard to imagine anyone would say any one of those is a fact. Maybe people who are ignorant and have no idea about WWII.
TSfrags
post Jun 4 2010, 09:33 PM

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It's D-DAY!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normandy_landings

QUOTE
The Normandy landings were the landing operations of the Allied invasion of Normandy, also known as Operation Neptune and Operation Overlord, during World War II. The landings commenced on Tuesday, 6 June 1944 (D-Day), beginning at 6:30 AM British Double Summer Time (UTC+2). In planning, D-Day was the term used for the day of actual landing, which was dependent on final approval.

The assault was conducted in two phases: an air assault landing of 24,000 American, British, Canadian and Free French airborne troops shortly after midnight, and an amphibious landing of Allied infantry and armoured divisions on the coast of France commencing at 6:30 AM. There were also subsidiary 'attacks' mounted under the codenames Operation Glimmer and Operation Taxable to distract the German forces from the real landing areas.[4]

The operation was the largest amphibious invasion of all time, with over 160,000[5] troops landing on 6 June 1944. 195,700[6] Allied naval and merchant navy personnel in over 5,000[5] ships were involved. The invasion required the transport of soldiers and materiel from the United Kingdom by troop-laden aircraft and ships, the assault landings, air support, naval interdiction of the English Channel and naval fire-support. The landings took place along a 50-mile (80 km) stretch of the Normandy coast divided into five sectors: Utah, Omaha, Gold, Juno and Sword.




 

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