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Science Transfers power wirelessly, Wifi, 3G. can electricity did that too?

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befitozi
post Mar 29 2010, 06:54 PM

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QUOTE(enmavel @ Mar 28 2010, 12:17 AM)
I LOLed at the "Power transfer doesn't means we need to use electrical current".

I guess there is nothing more i can say until u read about P=IV

I rest my case. hva nice day.
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Tell me, is there current flowing through air between the up and down steps of a coil transformer?

Simple picture to 'assist' you

user posted image

This post has been edited by befitozi: Mar 29 2010, 06:57 PM
befitozi
post Apr 1 2010, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(enmavel @ Apr 1 2010, 05:32 PM)
hi, nice pic.

Seriously, u really think a transformer transform the voltages thru "AIR" ??

LOL

What's the iron core for?
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Wires with rubber insulators can conduct to the core? Go back to school and learn SPM physics please.

Transformers works with electromagnetic induction. I guess there is no point we discuss this topic with you as you definitely have no idea about Faraday's and Lenz's laws, what more Maxwell's Field equations.


Added on April 1, 2010, 7:33 pmBack to topic.

I always found this topic to be extremely fascinating.

Anyone thought about transmission through higher dimensional space? Some theories suggest that EM waves are side effects of other phenomena happening in higher dimensions. Maybe if we induce that said effect at the source and have it propagate through such space and reproduce itself at the destination.

Though the physics of this could be solved, what about the engineering of it. Food for thought.

This post has been edited by befitozi: Apr 1 2010, 07:33 PM
befitozi
post Apr 1 2010, 11:54 PM

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QUOTE(enmavel @ Apr 1 2010, 10:34 PM)
Wow! Good.

So since u know that magnetic flux in the core induces the voltage on the secondary coil, then, y u ask "is there current flowing through air between the up and down steps of a coil transformer"?
A few things to clarify:

Air doesn't play a role in making this a "wireless" transfer of "power".

The iron core is important to "concentrate" the magnetic flux because air is simply inefficient. And the iron core is also made of thin layers of laminated sheet steel to eliminate eddy current (a form of transformer losses because it generates heat - 100% efficient transformer is only theoretical).

So, after all, there is current flowing in the iron core. Power loss is P = I^2 x R

Secondly, it's not called "up & down steps" of a coil transformer. It's called the primary or secondary winding of transformer. In electrical engineering, since there r "step up" & "step down" transformer, the "primary" & "secondary" don't make a good reference (ambiguous). Therefore, it's called the "LV side" & the "HV side".

Thirdly, rubber is not used as insulation for the copper wires. In the industry, PAPER ("Kraft paper") is used for large transformers (say 15MVA 132/33kV) and it is oil-impregnated when immersed in insulating oil (for cooling  & insulation purposes). For very small transformer PVC-insulated cables are used. Never rubber.

I guess SPM didnt teach u all that rite? wink.gif

Thanks.

p/s: Thanks Xerone.
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That question and example arose because you insists power transmission requires the use of current. Which is totally wrong.

Eddy currents causes LOSS in power. Are you saying the power loss is the one that is being transmitted? Hahaha.
This example is perfect to show how wrong you are in stating power transmission requires current. Do you even read what you type?


Mind you the low permeability of air is the barrier so it definitely plays a role.
befitozi
post Apr 2 2010, 04:18 PM

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QUOTE(enmavel @ Apr 2 2010, 03:57 PM)
Hi,

1.However, quoting wat u said about "air DEFINITELY plays a role". Can u explain how does air play a role in "power transfer" in the transformer? With the characteristic of having low permeability?

2. Then, may i ask, how do u compute the amount of power transferred by the magnetic flux?

3.So, we can somehow use a device to transfer 240Vac supply from 13A socket outlet across the living room to a laptop on the table thru thin air... hmm... ya, i like it too!

4. But u have said it very well, air has low permeability. So do u still expect power to be transferred via EM wave thru thin air?

5. So, what is the next best thing available? Thru current in a conductor, can?

Thanks
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1. I'm saying air plays a role in wireless transmission. And the reason is low permeability.

2. It's calculated by Faraday's Law. In a complete Maxwell field equation form it is : [curl.E = - d/dt B ] where E is electric field and B is the magnetic field.

3. Of course we can. Except that you will receive only 1nW out of 100W of what you want to transfer

4. Definitely. Maybe you should relook your perspective of what 'air' is. Air is simply space with very very few particles, where as a liquid would have more and solid even more. Of course current can flow through air just extremely inefficient as you said in your first post. Arcing occurs, it is dangerous and massively inefficient. that's why i propose the idea of using higher dimensional space. The concepts of it aren't very new, and certainly isn't fiction either.

5. That's the whole point of this discussion isn't it? .We are trying to find a way to avoid using a solid conductor for obvious physical reasons. On top of that, we are also dismissing the fact that transfer through current is needed. Which you seem to claim that is the best way to do so. Clearly not, else Nikola Tesla would have ruled the world with his inventions.

This post has been edited by befitozi: Apr 2 2010, 04:19 PM
befitozi
post Apr 2 2010, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(enmavel @ Apr 2 2010, 04:31 PM)
Hi,
1. i do not know if human body is OK with such exposure too...

2. Maybe i can do it "pipeless" by allowing the water to evaporate and become clouds. The clouds will then drift to the village and become rain. Villagers can then collect the rain water for their daily use.

Or,

3. Maybe i can freeze the water into sizable ice cubes/balls etc. then roll it down hill for the villagers to collect and thaw into water to use.

Or,

Transport the water bucket by bucket to the village by trucks



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1. Radio waves are EM too. As long as it is below UV frequency it should be fine

2. Similar to the idea i said about higher dimensions. Using a different medium not in direct contact with our physical world

3. Similar to laser/photonic transmission. Very promising field imo.

This post has been edited by befitozi: Apr 2 2010, 05:01 PM
befitozi
post Apr 2 2010, 11:13 PM

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I don't think we should look into magnetism as a solution. I used it merely as an example to show that current is not necessary to transmit power.

But another field where magnetism should be explored extensively is magnetic levitation. but that's a whole new topic all together
befitozi
post Apr 21 2010, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(jswong @ Apr 21 2010, 03:22 AM)
Higher dimensional space rarely means a superspace, in most physics calculations it's a subspace i.e. a compactified dimension. If we can reach into these compactified dimensions and meddle with stuff anytime we like, I don't think our universe's physical laws will be the way they are because then, our physical constants would have been very, very different to begin with.
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Well, true that we don't know much about it yet. As energies required to just probe those postulated dimensions are well beyond whats available on earth.

QUOTE
  How about if we condition the air so lasers, infrared & microwave can travel their designated path without much loss of energy?

Also isn't UV considered "wireless power"? They can power up calculators & those headshaking cardisplays.

That's simply photo electric effect. It is certainly possible but with immense limitations as said by jswong. But research into photonics is pretty large nowadays so it is the most likely method.

But, that being said, a simple obstacle in the path would beat the system so not practical for large scale transmissions.

 

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