http://blogs.computerworld.com/15692/andro..._says_quantcast

What you guys thinks with this data when android markets is growing faster than the other OS, and iphone OS marketshare slowly shrinking, so we can discussion here.

Not only that if m not mistaken the sales of nexus one has increase for west America overtaking the iPhone

I think if I'm Apple I'll be worried and do whatever I can to stop the growth. I dunno, maybe start suing my closest rival?

The act out of desperation.

so the apple must make sth out more excited one to users... wait n c the iphone 4g sooon..

i think iphone 4g will not much diff...apple is out of new ideas already.

iphone 4g huh??
Anyway, Android's Apps and Games are getting better..

Agree with u here the application in the market is increasing by the day and so those the quality this probably due to the demand as more are switching into the OS.

A clear cut case of apple not wanting to share the cake.

Apple is desperate when they see many users switching to android and rim, so they sue htc for infrigment of patents.

actually apple already sue HTC
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-s...iphone-patents/

I agree soon will Apple say 'If You Can't Beat Them...You Join Them...'

No kidding.
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1343126

If we see the drama, it's like "Apple suing Google" rather then "Apple suing HTC". It seems HTC stuck in the middle between Apple and Google Android

If they design something new, that might work...
Hint "oversize iphone = ipad"

Ipad is nothing less than iphone..they're using same firmware..

Google is the real target. They cant sue them directly because they have nothing on Google. So, it's HTC then. Somehow I'm beginning to see then sense on the rumors that the N2 will be from Motorola.

http://jonathanischwartz.wordpress.com/201...-artists-steal/

Something to share =D

Yeah, nice phone.. N2..
N1 still not officially launched..
But there are rumors about N2 already..
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1350545

Its good to see that Android market is getting bigger. More and more Android based phone coming out in the coming months. I personally can't wait for the Legend or Desire to be launch here.

it is a healthy sign... so that apple do not stick to their hard head thinking and give us what we want!!!!

mana need new ideas

they can just put in stuff that they deliberately left out in the first place. i.e.:
1) forward facing camera
2) fm tuner
3) memory card slot
4) flash for camera

iPhone shrinking is misleading.
Android are eating up WinMo marketshare
http://www.intomobile.com/2010/03/14/andro...s-a-tumble.html

so must wait the WP7 come out and fight again..

true!

WP7 review was very good when it got revealed

so tis year 4 big os fight, c who gonna swape market...
iphone, blackberry, android, wp7.... OMG...really good show..

This post has been edited by x132755: Mar 18 2010, 11:30 AM

Android definitely growing! though i think it will still be a close one between Apple and Android over the long run...the stats in the article merely reflects the initial uptake by consumers but as soon as that level out .. i think it will be a straight fight between apple and android ... ANDROID RULEZ!

iphone gonna be sandwitch in between a few OS that's growing.
Winmo7 is slowly making it way to the top.
Android growing too and many had join in to use this OS.
MS is definitely hidding something under it's sleeve. We did heard that there's a collaboration between MS and Nokia not long before. Wonder what kind of monster this two company gonna create.
MS had always tried to strangle apple's marketshare. So it will long soon be known what they are attempting to do. The only last thing that was heard was unreal engine successfully demonstrated on Winmo7.

as for me iPhone 4g doesnt diffrentiate itself much from the 3G or 3GS,as the new sleek design,still there's no latest applications or OS introduced.

---

Added on March 19, 2010, 1:01 amshow us the link.

This post has been edited by nandayryu: Mar 19 2010, 01:01 AM

All I Can Say Is...... Android Rocks.... I Will Stick To It For Years.....

It will be my utmost pleasure.
I'll give you links instead of link.
http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/ben...wsuit/?cs=39803
http://techdrag.com/2010/03/apples-lawsuit...ctarget-google/
http://www.enterprisemobiletoday.com/news/...he-HTC-Suit.htm
http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/...luff/1268597261
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/03/apple-fires-at-htc/
http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/69467....?wlc=1268958370

Even though Apple is now being promoted by DiGi.....I will stick to Android......My next phone will always be............Android

Engadget best smartphone of the year?
-Motorola Droid

Cellphone inventor Marty Cooper choose android phone and ignoring his iphone by give it to his grandson.

Google is world largest internet company.. application smartphone nowadays concept is within apps itself and majority of apps uses internet service .. so? Google service is a must.. conclusion apple need google.. google doesn't need apple .. what ever it comes the final answer is still GOOGLE.
the biggest potential is still GOOGLE
the winner WILL be GOOGLE.
U call google is an evil? So what.... its business.
and who dare to sue GOOGLE??????
Android will rule... enuf said.

Ps:
Google search engine is a winner.. y ?
No bullcrap... like yahoo or bing, u can't copy or u will be sue so hardd...

no more flash player for iphone

Same thing will probably will happen to android in few years time, another OS will take over it

maybe thats why someone could 'found' an iphone 4g prototype

This's the funniest story so far!!
And then, special force rushed into the target house immediately!!
What a fuss!!

Erm, HTC did infringe Patent..
Apple already patent Multitouch, HTC goes and implement to their Desire..
Well, cant blame Apple..
They need $$~"

No flash but ada HTML 5..
Your choice~"

Dont give too much credit too Apple.
Nearly everything they have now was built on the foundation of windows mobile; touch screen, apps, they just added their own innovation and twist to it.

Yeap..
But still, If they patent something, then too bad..
Innovation and inventions that made millions, If i may add~"

I couldnt agree more. Oh BTW:-
http://www.osnews.com/story/23089/Apple_Sl..._Patent_Lawsuit

This is cool..
I am so loving this..
If Apple can sue, people can sue back..

I preferred a time when all mobile companies were a consortium and had to design things to inter work.
Now its just another OS wars.

more n more users join android community~~ seem grows very very fast~

How's the demand in general for Android phones? Are they lots of inquiry on Android phones on your side?

I think Android is a very promising new platform. I will be ditching Palm when my current Treo 680 dies and go for Android end of this year when more Android phones are launched.

To me, android is just an excuse for phone companies to sell phones.

Before people start flaming me, I deal a lot with android phones. I got the Xperia X10, the mother of all phones. Hero, Legend, Tattoo I have tested it all.

But android phones are for people who are not afraid of getting down and dirty with the OS. Not for people who wanted things to just work. In that case, get a WinMo (HTC HD mini highly recommended) or the Iphone. Or Nokia even.

Why?

Because it's still half baked, and those using it are the beta testers. I was looking to make android work with a macbook pro, for tethering purpose, and all solutions involved rooting the phone, or using pdanet to set up bluetooth DUN. This is legend, 2.1 Eclair or whatever biskut name they decided to give.

Pdanet works some of the time, doesn't work most other time, decides not to work a majority of the time.

Turning it into wifi router (joikuspot with nokia, wmwifirouter with winmo, or built in like HD2 and HD mini) requires ROOTING. Fine with me, but not with my corporate clients. They wanted something turn on straight can use. Sure, can tether using HTC Sync, but use cable, a hassle many don't actually want. And this solution still doesn't work on a mac.

Heck, people wanted 8 hours + notebooks because they don't want to lug around a bag full with the charger adapters and all.

And that's just the story with tethering.

Will android succeed? Sure, google is backing it, and throw enough money at it, it will work out in the end. But I'm sick of being treated like a test subject. Version 1.6 got this, 2.0 got that, 2.1 got this, 2.2 we put flash new version, 2.3? 2.4?

Unless manufacturer guarantees that they will update all their phones accordingly, I don't see why we should be beta testers. And yes, thanks to the people at xda-developers, you can, unofficially.

But why don't they really bake a good biskut that we can eat, instead of biskut this kurang gula, biskut that kurang marjerin, biskut this takde coklat chip?

This post has been edited by mfitri77: May 8 2010, 12:58 PM

good point there. but it will always be back to the end user. iphone and bb are for those who are chasing the 'popularity' . the rest of them are just regular user who doesn't know how to utilize even 50% of their hp. honestly how many user are using the 3G connectivity? most android user here are not looking to utilise 50% or 75% of their hp but 110% . im guessing most of android fan actually use a free-os before.

well, free or open os is much more better than "quarantined" os..
android is the best now and only time will judge who'll be the best in the future time being...

agree.

iphone and bb users are drawn to them more by their 'popularity'. iphone is the 'elegant' one, and bb is the 'business' one.

many iphone users only need basic calling and sms, occasional gaming, not even mailing and web browsing. they are drawn by the hype. because the touchscreen is so good and so big. but anyway, it deserves the hype because it was the market changer.

many bb users only use bb because it is marketed as a 'business' phone.. many of them thinks that bb is the only phone that is so easy to set up to sync with their company emails.. but the fact is even my old Nokia 5320 XpressMusic is capable of doing that, easily.

when compared relatively, android users (at least for now) are a more informed group of what their android phones are capable of. because most people don't even know about android os lol. if someone knows about android, chances are he/she's a user.

Android 2.2 will address the issue of version fragmentation, so this guinea-pig issue should be resolved soon.

Android and winmo is for user that is geek or tech person that want to utilize more from their hp, iphone is for person that want trend or hype, N1 is the best phone i have so far and with more update from google, android os will be same rank better than iphone.

Don't think so.

In the Android world right now, there are two camps.

Camp 1 - I'll customize the beans out of Android, prominent members HTC, and to a certain extent, Sony Ericsson (Timescape, Mediascape)

Camp 2 - I'll just use whatever Android throws at me - Motorola and maybe Acer.

These two camps, and the manufacturers are going to blundgeon each other by putting out sets to differentiate themselves. Ergo, you have the Legend although 2.1 doesn't exactly operate like Motorola Milestone, also 2.1. In fact, you could say that HTC is basically saying to google, hey, thanks for the free OS, but we'll slap out own enhancements thank you.

Sony Ericsson comes in and says, well, the UI seems a little bit confusing for our target market, therefore lets do our own. Heck, the X10, for some reason or another, CANNOT support multitouch.

The issue with rooting has been talked about since V1 of the android, and until now all we could hear from Google was "We are considering allowing this and that." Now Adobe is muscling in, saying "Hey, we are now in a battle royale with Apple, and we need allies. Thats you Android. We'll bring flash to Android."

64 bit implementation pun stlll sangkut.

Where does this all lead? More fragmentation. The reason why Linux, after all these while still loses out to Apple (Not just microsoft) is because you got hundreds of flavour competing with each other. KDE, Gnome, Etc, and that's just the GUI. Not to mention packaging method, LSB implemetation. You got soo many forking that there is so many distros that newbies don't really want to play.

Contrast that to web browsers. Firefox was presented as the open source answer to closed Internet Explorer. And still Google created Chrome.

With all these vested interest in Android, something's bound to give. Ask HTC. Why on earth would they put out phones based on BREW?

I'm bound to agree to that statement, but underneath the user interface the core system remains the same. The customization is necessary for companies to stand out (ie. Sense for HTC, Blur for Motorola). As far as I know, there are only 3 of these customized interfaces. For now I don't see much trouble going on.

There are also lots of home-screen replacements for Android OS, are you saying they effect the fragmentation too?

I have a feeling that Android in 3 years will become another Windows Mobile...

This post has been edited by pziv2: May 8 2010, 08:51 PM

iphone marketshare down is just temporary due to no new model out.

Only iphone 4g/hd out, they will gain back the marketshare.

Yes, because that's what happened with Windows Mobile. Sure, underlying core is the same, but when the UI people decided that this or that does not work, or they disagree with the core system UI implementation, they started making their own changes.

Look an WinMo. At first, it was just small changes, extra shortcuts on the home screen. Then HTC came out with Touch. After that Touch 3D. Sony Ericsson came up with the Xperia panels. Not to mention SPB's own UI customization hat pretty well worked with all the phones.

If we were to be honest, should android wanted to do that, they could have just focused on making the best core for the OS as possible. From the first day, you should be able to store your programs on SD card, full bluetooth implementation, wifi support, true color support, multitouch support, OTA support. In short, make it on par with whatever else you have on the market. Instead, they played the UI game with a half-baked core, adding support as they coded it. Add the customization on the UI that the companies are doing? Bear in mind that this is open source. Nothing prevents the manufacturers from actually coming in and playing around with the core functionalities of the OS.

What you have are phones that cannot beat a Nokia in terms of basic core functionality of a smartphone. Hero don't support this, Legend does. What Legend don't got, Desire will have. Add Motorola and Sony Ericsson to the mix, then Samsung?

If you are a tech guy, you'd be buying all those sets. HTC laughs its way to the bank.

In short, I don't recommend the Android sets anymore, at least until they have all the core functionality a smartphone should have. (Biskut Z. This is one ore thing - Just give the version number lar. Copy ubuntu with all the animal names what for)

Sadly that's true.

My Android has the functionality I need, but for others, I don't know.

This post has been edited by pziv2: May 9 2010, 10:22 AM

have to admit what u said is quite true. but is there a perfect phone system in the market right now?
nokia might have all the basic core functionality of a smartphone, but does it provide an ecosystem as attractive as android to draw enough developers for apps? to me android already provide all the basic core functionalities of a smartphone - they might not be the best implementation out there, but they work. personally i would consider that 'basic'.

if you don't recommend android phones, then what phones do u recommend?

iphone? don't forget they don't even support copy and paste in the first version. by ur definition (from my understanding), i believe this is not recommended as well because they did not start this from the first day and they have been adding support as they develop the OS.

symbian? they are open source but does anyone else other than nokia uses it now? the whole app devt ecosystem is not as attractive at least for now. and the UI game was played during its days before it is open sourced. remember SE's and then Motorola-SE's and then bankrupted UIQ, nokia's s60, s80, s90 etc.? the users who followed symbian would be far worse than following android. those followed UIQ, s80 and s90 now they are no longer around. symbian foundation decided to take s60 to reform. symbian foundation is heavily backed by nokia. but don't forget nokia also have maemo which has merged with intel's moblin to become meego. future direction is totally unclear, as meego is also marketed as an OS for smartphones as well.

webOS? now its future is totally unknown, i believe you won't recommend it as well?

winmo? same problem in UI and not focusing on the core. How long has the existing core been used? so many years already, from winmo 5.0 to 6.5 share the same old core.. been used for so many years without updates. multitouch not supported natively until now. the first native winmo 6.5.3 multitouch device is not even released yet. btw as for UI, HTC developed an UI also named Sense to its winmo device, based on TouchFlo/TouchFlo 3D it has for BREW.

talking about blackberry, multitouch has also not been there even until now.. also apps cannot be installed in SD cards..

so talking about recommending a good smartphone by ur definition, i think all of them fail.

in any case, the final decision goes to the users. at its current stage, android phones will only frustrate novice users. informed users go for android because they know what they want to do with it and willing to try to see if they can take its weaknesses. not recommending android phones to normal users are definitely wiser.


EDIT:
btw i don't see anything wrong with the naming convention. it's just a matter of preference. u can say it's copied from ubuntu but it's quite common in FOSS world. linux mint has that, fedora has a weirder one. in fact ubuntu wasn't the first one who came out with this - i don't know who started it but even debian has long history of similar naming scheme..

This post has been edited by golvin: May 9 2010, 01:34 PM

What is the point pointing fingers at other OS, thought we are talking about Android here, and how its going to take over the world?

Lets put it simple, ask any developers what OS you would like to develop and it'll be whatever that makes them lots of money. That crown is held by the Iphones. But here's the thing, what if the phone is good enough that you don't need extra apps because you are covered fully already? You don't need the functionality to be extended, because they are built in? That would be the Nokias. Or Sony Ericsson or Motorola or Samsung. Calendar, Alarm, Browser, Networking, Email all built in. Wonder why E71 is still selling?

Again, people are fond of saying, Iphone got millions of apps, but how many are quality? Android market really is nothing to shout about. Heck, some actually have the cheek to ask you to ROOT your phones first, (thereby voiding warranty) before they can use the app? Its like sure, your car can add radio one, but you gonna have to drill a hole in your dashboard, connect some wiring to the battery, and oh, void the warranty.

The problem with android is that you don't have the basics right. Try using a Hero, and try calling services that need dialing tones. I learned that the hard way when I was trying to call my HQ concerning a patient that needed immediate GL from the company. It simply refuses to co-operate. Tried to find the speakerphone, so I can dial without having to hear the instruction, can't find the speakerphone button. Its that intuitive.

Or hero don't have speakerphone. Too angry to find out.

Cannot set to just use 3G. No mac support. In fact, don't think it has linux support either. Putting the cable in only turns your phone into a very expensive thumb driver.

You see, I am an informed user. My customers are informed users. And we all have the same question. Why this? Why this incremental updates? Adding functionality as you go along? Forcing us to upgrade the phones just to get more functionalities?

That's when it hit me. Android is positioned as the free man's answer to the big bad iphone. In reality, its nothing more than an excuse for manufacturers to make more money. If they weren't, HTC Magic users are going to get Eclair upgrades, but they are not. We are talking about official updates here. Look at Xperia X10. Sony Ericsson finally had to publicly promise that buyers would bet 2.1 updates. Why? People were holding back from buying because they wanted to know, am I getting 2.1?

They had no initial intention to upgrade to 2.1. They wanted you to but Xperia Next. Why else would a snapdragon handset be missing Hardware Multitouch Support?

Get the basics right. Get the best core now, instead of adding on, because that could only mean CODE BLOAT! You know, the same accusation leveled on WinMo? Get some control over your app market, and make the coverage for it wider. Then maybe the novice and the normal will be better off buying Android phones.

chill, bro =)

wasn't trying to point fingers to other OS for the sake of pointing them. was trying to make the point that there's no real perfect smartphone out there.

i can see u r frustrated by ur previous bad experience. google may not have the best strategy for the android ecosystem. but still, to be fair to android, other phones iphone, blackberry, nokia, SE etc has had or has been having their bad times in frustrating users for not able to provide the 'basic' (it's a very subjective word) features as well. like u said, when u needed speakerphone, hero doesn't have it. similar things have happened to other users of other smartphones, e.g. iphone users when the first generation was released, no cut-and-paste etc.. it's just that u probably haven't encountered worse experience in other phones which make u have those views, but the truth is it happens in all smartphones.

btw xperia missing hardware multitouch support has nothing to do with its snapdragon processor.. it's the touchscreen itself does not support multitouch. SE didn't use a touchscreen with multitouch support. probably that's SE's strategy to sell more phones, and HTC also doesn't really seem to be keen in updating older models. but isn't it the same everywhere else in the market? u think apple isn't doing that to their iphone, RIM isn't doing for their bb?

the open in the android is truly better in marketing than it is in reality. all members of the open handset alliance want to gain profits; they are businesses afterall. they do whatever they think it's the best for their businesses. we have to face the fact that while many are driving android forward to be more superior than other OSes, there are still many factors (mainly business factors) that prohibit us from getting the 'perfect' phone. google has its motives in driving android, so do other vendors. again, to be fair, apple does that, RIM does that, ms does that, palm did that.

i think it's more a consumer matter. if u r willing to buy a product, it comes with a certain risk - u probably will find similar products in much cheaper price, u probably will find the support for the one u buy is not that good. we all face it everyday - buying a product and bumping into a similar one priced much less. we feel exploited, or even cheated. but that's part of consumerism. if u think u r more justified, go ahead and complain to or sue the seller, otherwise take whatever u have and find excuses to feel good about it (ironically). android might have made u feel bad, but can u be sure other vendors are totally better? again, everything goes back to the users.

i can see u really want android to be better. but i think google won't really hear u on whatever u have suggested for android when u only put them here. u should find the right medium to get ur voice out so that we all can get better android. =)

By the time Apple launches it's new OS in 06/10 new players like Dell.. Alienware..Sagem..Kyocera and more..have already come up with the prints of new Androids phones supporting 3D gaming ready integrated with nVidia GPUs..........

Hey guys, mind if I share my two cents here? First of all, I am a Nexus One user, and yes, you can look at me as an Android fanboy. To non-Androiders, you are free to dispute any claims that I will be making here.

First of all, did you guys realize that these conversations of which is better, should i buy this, Android or iPhone or BB, etc all started since Android joint the game? Where were all these conversations when iPhone was eating up all the market, chomping on WinMo, BB and Nokia? We are digging way too much into the cores of Android if we are starting to talk about UI, Linux diversification and HTC vs Motorola vs Acer vs Ericsson issues. What we do not realize is we are talking about all these issues because there is now a new platform in mobile devices which is REAL and SOLID, and its the talk of the time - and this is THE Android. Just a little note for you guys, I have experienced ALL of the Android phones so far - Dream, Hero Tattoo, Legend, Milestone, Liquid and I am the proud owner of the first few Malaysians to own the Nexus One. And if that makes it bias, I have experienced all three iPhones, a huge number of WinMo devices and of course BB too.

There are some people who still can't conclude what Android really brings. In fact, some are demanding things that even they don't know what the risk may possess. Claiming that this phone has this and that phone doesnt have it does not end the story. Its the natural cycle. Nothing is perfect. You get something in a device, and you don't get it in another. Go with the one that you need. Its as simple as that.

And if you're saying that HTC, Motorola and Acer will be fighting in this mobile war, I don't agree with that. WinMo was deployed on the biggest list of mobile gadgets compared to any other mobile OS. Its been in the game since the old days of Compaq's iPAQ. But their gadget makers never complained about the competition they had to face. In Android world, if HTC has SenseUI that beautifies the Android experience, that is a plus for them. Down the core, the OS is the same. At the end of the day, its the applications that decide which phone you should use - in fact, which OS you should use at the first place. Sense UI is an APP. Developed by HTC. For their client's user-experience. If other makers are taken aback with that, then create something for yourself. Thats how we do business here.

I don't even want to talk about the Apple suing HTC issue. Just because HTC is gaining its popularity and Google is owning, Apple plays dirty by slapping HTC with their so called innovative calls. After doing that, they put multitasking and stuff that Android had since day one into their latest SDK. lol. Thats totally a "me too" strategy to me.

I like the fact about Firefox vs Chrome that was brought up by mfitri77. Taking this into consideration, if you can see the overall picture, Google doesn't just innovate. It really hits the nail with what it produces. Yes, Firefox was really good. But it had some issues which I really didnt like. First, it became too bulky when it reached FF3. Things started to get slower and slower. Then, the updates were nagging. Then the way javascripts were loaded on FF became slower. The extensions were turning more into bloatwares. So, Google made Chrome which was back to basics - browsing - but with better improvements. Chrome is faster, the extensions are minimal (I dont even need them), and the best part is, the javascript finally has a new way of loading. Google tends to analyze what exists, uses what is best, then figure out a way to improve it. It did that with its search engine (against Yahoo!), it did that with GMail (against Hotmail and Yahoo!), it did that with Android (against iPhone and WinMo), it did that with Maps (against Atlas), it just does it better. Whenever I switch to Google's products, I realize there is always something better for me waiting on their end.

Get out of the conventional loop, be a little more daring to change your mind, experience rather than following, and only then decide what is best. Thats how I choose my tech.

You guys let chills, don't ge to emotional here, all androids and iphone os have pro and cons,

here the stats for worldwide sales between may 09 till may 10,

This post has been edited by Slekerz: May 10 2010, 02:22 AM

Emotional? Nah, we're just talking about facts here.

The conversation of which is the best phone to buy didn't start with Android, it started way back when it was Nokia vs Blackberry (Communicator vs Blackberry), SE vs Nokia, Motorola vs Everybody. It has been like that since we all started ditching our landlines and phones got cheaper for the mass market. What you have right now are the popular forums, social networking (I hate etc etc i Facebook), people willing to buy domain names like xxphonesucks.com just to vent their anger, and this happened to everyone. Remember the so called class action against HTC? Winmo users just shrugged, keep using their phones. Blackberry users shrugged, kept using their phones. Doesn't mean Nokia, Microsoft and everyone else didn't cast an envious eye to the Iphones.

But they all know that Itunes was the killer, not the Iphone itself. The convergence of the Ipods and cellphone in one. Teens + Yuppies adore it to the max. Why do you think Microsoft built up Zune? Nokia's Comes With Music? Content is king here, because that's what you want from your smartphone. Internet anywhere, multimedia etc etc.

Android was real and solid because it is backed by money from google. End of story. The reason why is so simple, its because they can pay the manufacturers to put Android in their phones. And they have the resources to do so. Pure and simple economics. And it will have more fanboys than everyone else, because of the linux origin thing. They were blasting HTC for not releasing the source code for the HTC implementation of Android in the forums. HTC obliges. What they do next? Nothing. They just wanted HTC to release the code.

Think about it. Android was NOT the first implementation of linux in mobile devices. For the US, it was the Dobson Cellular. Motorola came out with their own implementation of Linux. However, Motorola was not keen in sharing their linux thing, so it died with them. What's google interest in Android then?

To sell you more ads. Get the Legend, and the OS is peppered with Google asking you whether or not they can track your location. Android marketplace is so full of Ad supported game, in fact, only games that show up are free Ad supported games. And with Google, basically arguing "Hey, don't want us to know about you, you opt out policy"?

REAL and SOLID? When the core is still in a mess? Your argument about Firefox is interesting. Before this it was a lean browser, not everybody says its getting bloated. Why? Because they were adding more features in. Bloat happens because you can't mess around with functionalities that work well, therefore the extra thing you have to support is grafted on the core code. And we are talking about open source here, eyeballs on code and all. Still it got bloated.

I don't like what Google is doing. Because it is not done out of the goodness of their heart. It is done because they wanted to sell more ads. Correct me if I am wrong, but no. Location based targeted ads is the new thing they are playing at. Remember minority report? A scene where Tom Cruise enters the store, the store pulls your info and displays ads targeted spesifically for you. That is what google is doing.

And looking at it, I can pretty much sum up Android. Two years down the road, voices will start, saying that the once GREAT os is now bloated. Its now slow using it, because of this ad that.

And forking happens.

Example. Linux.

This is just plain wrong. No doubt there are 3rd party ROM packagers who seem to be more interested in just rooting the stock ROM and re-releasing it lock, stock and barrel but I can at least point out that CyanogenMod is one of those who take the source and build it up from scratch while incorporating various improvements from the community. And it's not to say that Cyanogen is the only person working on his project either. He aggregates improvements from individuals working on their preferred chunks of code (just refer to the Changelog: http://github.com/cyanogen/android_vendor_...lair/CHANGELOG).

Yes, I do agree that HTC has been frustrating us in their delays to release updates to their phones, ostensibly to get us to buy new models instead. But with the source in the wild, Cyanogen just released his own Eclair build for the Dream / Magic.

Does that look like the community "just wanted HTC to release the code"?

Well, seriously, DUH. I think it's written pretty clearly somewhere in their shareholders' prospectus that they are an ad company, first and foremost. So yeah, it makes perfect sense for them to create a mobile OS to sell ads. But here's the thing: I've seen at least one independent build/fork of Chromium (can't remember the name) where all traces of data submission to Google were removed. This was built from Chromium's public source repos. Did Google send a C&D to the developer for having the gall to do that? No. Go use that if you want to. Google's pretty cool with that. You're just not in their target market.

Back to Android: The base OS from the AOSP project can be built and installed into our Android phones to the same effect. If there's anything that "calls home", the developer is free to remove it. What are the applications that actively collect data on yourself? Gmail, Market, Maps, all the proprietary bits that are not part of AOSP. Don't want that? Cyanogen's release notes specifically say that the phone is perfectly usable without the proprietary bits. It's just not as useful. But if you want to make use of their mail, navigation, calendaring services, taking up their cloud resources and money, you just need to pay. And pay you will, by having your data collected and have ads shown to you.

But at the end of the day, it's your choice, really. It's obvious you're not the type of mobile user that Google is going after. So don't buy an Android phone. For me though, I'd buy it and use it willingly because I'm ok with the T&C's. And just in case, Google turns rogue and doesn't even give you that opt-out, I can drop back to a 3rd party release that's not so evil. That's why we should always keep up the pressure on the phone manufacturers and Google to release their source codes and drivers. Just so we have that option to still use the hardware that we buy in the way that we want to.

BTW, just before Google bought AdMob, AdMob was actually being courted by Apple. So apparently, Apple was thinking about mobile ads as well. I don't know, but it sounds like most of the smartphone platforms are looking into this as a revenue stream, just that Google's a bit ahead of the curve right now. So if you (not saying you did, but just saying if) bought an iPhone and you don't like this turn of events, what are your alternatives with an iPhone? None, I daresay. Use it the way Jobs wants you to, or not at all. Maybe this phone (http://www.fsight.com.sg/product_mobile.htm) is a better choice then?

Forking happens. Yeah well, good and bad. The other picture: WinPh7 will not be allowing any custom theming by manufacturers, period. Every single WinPh7 unit will look exactly the same UI-wise (sorry, Sense, you're out of luck) and with the exact same number of buttons. Both approaches aren't exactly ideal, it's just a choice of which approach you can live with. But hey, I thought it was the OpenSource fanboys who were accused of being commies?

open ur tap tap and see ^^

This post has been edited by Fantasia: May 10 2010, 04:30 PM

Good points there. Lemme elaborate more on The APP Store.
Once the users realise the most important thing is the the apps, no matter how high-tech the hardware it is still useless.


I've been a WinMo user since 2003 to 6.5 including cooked roms, and tried various Series 60 Symbians and tried Androids.

As I always upgrade new phones especially HTCs, I have been facing the same problems:

1. Difficult to get the apps I want, not to mention very seldom see nice games on WinMo or Symbian (Except some N-Gage games)
2. The apps I previously downloaded cant work properly on my new phones (eventhough same OS version and same Manufacturer-HTC)
3. When I upgrade the OS, previous apps/games I downloaded unable to play, or no updates/patch available.
4. Buttons are not standardize for most of the games.
5. Cannot find any reliable productivity apps when I need it. A repository where I can download and install cabs(WinMo)

After I changed to IPhone, I finally realise IPhone is not a hype ( I was Anti-Iphone before I started using one )

1. I can get whatever apps I want, a lot of quality apps (170k and counting)
2. IPhone 2g,3g and 3gs is identical. Maybe newer versions can perform better
3. App Store manage the apps updates perfectly. When I change another IPhone, I just sync the app and it works the same.
4. Well, the multi-touch screen is amazing and accelerometer is perfect. Same interface, same experience for all the games.
5. Again, I get whatever apps I want. When I was camping, I forgotten to bring my guitar tuner, I just download from AppStore(luckily EDGE Available), and solve my problem. When I need a to calculate the car loan/house loan, I just download it right from AppStore and it's free.

Can you guys really see the magic?

1 Manufacturer(IPhone), 1 OS(IPhoneOS), 1 Standard (Zero Fragmentation unlike WinMo and Androids)


Why do Big Games like Red Alert, Need for speed, Fifa, Sims 3 and many more is available on IPhones? Why do Nintendo thinks that the big rival is IPhone?
It is not because IPhone has cutting-edge hardware, there are many higher tech phones out there with better resolution and graphic. The reason is simple, the application is easy to develope and maintain. As well as the developers can manage the incompatibilities issue easily.

This applies for many apps too- TomTom Navi, Papa Go and many hundred thousands apps. The developer know the users can download the software easily. It is much easier for them to sell the apps compare wit other platforms.


Why there are so many creative apps on AppStore?
It is because AppStore allows them to earn money by sellingtheir apps online. 99 cents app with 1 Million download will grant them a ticket to millionaire club. This is why so many developers are squeezing their brain juice for strange, crazy, funny and entertaining apps for IPhone.


I know IPhone is big, no memory card, everything is lock, unconventional interface, cannot change battery, no multi-tasking option(Os 3.1), no 3g camera and many more functions that can be found on Rm200 phones. But somehow the AppStore and the maturity of the OS really amazes me.

I have jailbroken my IPhone and throws tonnes of Apps and games, the multi-tasking works perfectly. Big games running at the background is so light. From a software developer point of view, it is really optimized perfectly. Eventhough I am running mem-intensive games, 1 click at home button will quit the game and continue my task. Unlike any other phones I have used before.

This post has been edited by Crazyboyrs: May 10 2010, 05:20 PM

Whatever is it, android will win over the damn suck iphone.

Note: Another android supporter just join the war hehe

I hope so. That's what I heard 2 years ago. IPhone is so easy to be beaten if we compare with Androids

Manufacturer
IPhone - Only Apple
Android - HTC, Motorolla, Samsung.....and counting

Distributor
IPhone - Only selected Telco for a region - AT&T, Maxis, Digi....
Android - Any distributors or Telco

Feature-wise
IPhone - Limited and locked
Android - Getting packer and packer

Design
IPhone - Same design since it launched
Android - Getting nicer and nicer ( I love Droid/Milestone )

Hardware Specification
IPhone - Dated hardware since it launched.
Android - Latest tech available - HD, AMOLED, Google Navi, Goggle

Connectivity
IPhone - Very limited
Android - Highly interoperable

Storage
IPhone - Fixed since the first day
Android - Mem cards / Internal Storage

I believe each phone has its own pros and cons, anyway iPhone got few years headstart compared to Android, hence the market is bigger and better, but of cause Android is not losing out as it is growing pretty fast as well.

So the competition between both companies given us Consumers good amount of choices!

the android market hits 50k apps faster than what apps store can do last time. So definitely android is growing.

True. But how many of these apps are 100 % compatible across different type of Androids phones ?

Maybe about 5000 apps are compatible with HTC Dream / 1.6 (First Gen), another 10k of apps are developed for Droid /2.0, another 20k are developed base base on Nexus / 2.1.

These are the current fragmentation issues that need to be addressed.

Some of the problems I found on other forums.

I am not sure any users understand the fragmentation issue which might affect the potential of Androids, this platform itself is like a double-edge blade. The loosely coupled concept might be a bubble that gonna burst soon. Anyone agree?

This post has been edited by Crazyboyrs: May 11 2010, 02:25 PM

iphone will always have its standardization and android (open source) will always fork out. which is better? its always the end user who will have the say. not everyone loves a dumb blonde with huge tits eh?

p.s: i still don't believe in one OS to rule them all.. marketshare is just marketshare

glad to see my not-so-short discussion with mfitri77 has gotten some intellectual discussions going on here by the concerned ones. =))

hopefully someone from android dev team will be able to notice some of the points here and keep improving android. =)

A big AGREED.........!

Can we purchase any apps on Android Market, why we have limited access to Android Market in Malaysia? Who own Android Market?

Jumping into the fire again .

Before I go any further, I saw some posts that thinks of me more of an Apple Fanboi, which is really far from the truth. I'm just a tech junkie, to say the least. My association with Linux also goes way back. Anyone remember Caldera's OpenLinux? I used version 2.3 by buying the Dummies box Set. At that time no one knows what Linux is, and internet connection was at the top speed of 56k shriekers.

They got this video ad you can play. How it describes OpenLinux as the cure for all your problem, how it makes your computer run better, how you can get your boss to kiss you on the mouth with gratitude (I'm not kidding).

The frustration was getting it to work. One of the hallmarks of Windows is it is pretty much guaranteed that it will work with any and all hardware you throw at it - Not linux, and still there is no real and easy way to install needed drivers unless its baked into the distro. I go back from time to time just to see if things have changed - When broadband downloads become possible, I tested any and all that I could get my hands on to. Vectorlinux, DSL, PC-BSD, Ubuntu.

My experience is this. What's the worse fanboi on the planet? I would say Apple. Running a close second? Open source, especially Linux.

Why? Because it is populated by the snobbiest IT know it all one the planet. People ask Windows dumb questions every day. In the forums, telephone support, same question over and over again, and rarely do they scold, or call the person an idiot.

Try doing that on a linux forum. I did, to my detriment. I was called a bloody noob, lazypants, google it, etc etc. It would seem that the linux people wants only the smarter ones to use it. The rest of us sheep could go and use Windoze, become mactards and all that. And still people wonder why no one wants to use linux?

Feature bloat is another thing to consider with linux. DSL proved that linux is not that big, problem is because you want to offer functionality, you needed all that bloat in there. Add feature = Adding bloat. Case in point, Firefox - A split from Mozilla that wanted a lean, fast and responsive browser. The first iteration was 4mb of download. Now? How's 3.6 working out for you?

Android is going that way very fast now. Announcement after announcement about whats in 1.5 that will be improved on 1.6 and what 2.1 will be improved by 2.2. Put yourself in the developers shoe. Okay, now have to figure out what works in 2.1 and what won't in 2.2. 2.3? 2.4? What version should I develop for?

Go figure it out yourself, because you don't have a stable platform. You have a platform evolving so fast that softwares for the phones I sold today cannot work on the Hero I sold 4 months ago. And then you have all the promises - Buy my phones, we'll upgrade to 2.1. Honest. Before they even put out the 2.1 upgrade, Google announced 2.2.

The software engineers must have a fit - Remember, they have to push out an update that is stable and will work with all the phones that they put out. Therefore, they would only work with stable codes, not one that is new to them.

That is what puzzles me about Android and Chrome. Google have a big war chest - Yes, creating an OS from scratch does not really make senses with all the patents floating around, but at least they could put out the best OS, and timeline the thing. How hard is it to list down all the features you need to support, all API's that you can put in the SDK and make the code stable enough for at least 1 year?

In the end, users become like my brother, wondering why Bluetooth DUN suddenly don't work.

^ yup got to agree with u....
Google is spamming update where phone manufacture cant even catch up.... and the application are having problems to follow up to...

Frm the other side. Apple is releasing its OS update slow and steadily and make sure most of the app can be fuctionable in the new version.

Try telling the fanboi's that, see what responses you'd get.

Platform stability has never been, and I don't think will ever be a hallmark of Linux. Simply because as I have said the ego of the people involved. Android wasn't the first Linux based OS, its the first to be backed by big money released to the general public via manufacturers. Look at what happens, the wanted to put in in everything from phones to mobile computers, disregarding that the OS was design to function as a touchscreen phone operating system.

Guess what? To make it work on MID's with keyboard, you change the input system. To make it recognize USB ports, you add more code. Make it work with touchpads? USB pendrive? Yet that was what is being talked about when Android first came on the scene, it was picked up by OSS evangelist and used by computer manufacturers as a hammer against Microsoft (You no discount, I put out netbook using Android).

All the while nobody seemed interested in addressing fundamental flaws in the OS. Not flaws from a technical point of view, but usability? When netbook first came out, it had Linux it it. 2 years down the road you couldn't find one with that option if you turn Lowyat Plaza upside down. The reason was the need for the general public to use something that is familiar and just works without much complaints. The reason was there was too many fragmented application of Linux, one from Acer is not the same as one from Asus, and it offered no better or less performance anyway. Imagine, with some management you could actually ran the worst Microsoft OS, Vista on netbook with more or less the same performance, tested this on a HP Mini 1001tu. Because of bad rep, they didn't go to Linux, no, they went and used Windows XP. What does that say about Linux in general?

To a certain extent, we are now seeing that with Android. HTC basically saying my SenseUI is better than the default screen of 2.1. Will Android succeed? It will, just because now manufacturers have something they can sell to you, which is the OS. It's the flavor of the month. But honestly, what would happen if Apple let loose the iPhone? No restriction, no contract, sell to anybody.

Some op-eds I read on the internet put down one interesting fact - In the US, people want the iPhone. They don't want AT&T, which comes with the iPhone.

no worries bro. i will help u to put out the fire if it has gone too far and catches u.. =)



yah, I totally agree with what u have stated on these two..

anyhow, the fanboy part is getting drifted a bit far away from android lol ;p but then, well yes, it happens, a lot, in FOSS community.. that's why there's ppl like Linux Hater and also mfitri77 urself who seems to know a lot about Linux and the community and the things around the FOSS world, but bash harshly on it.. really, the community is full of egoanimals but also could be because they are simply not good when it comes to dealing with people (while they are good in dealing with computers). whatever reason it is, yeah, the real fact is the community and the ecosystem is harsh for newbies.

indeed there are a lot of things overlooked and lacking in the direction where google is putting android to be heading towards.. same thing actually goes to apple's iphone.. there must be things that are overlooked and lacking but due to the way apple develop their new products, they are not that much blamed for that by the public.. and also due to that, many get the impression that as if apple has not done much 'wrong' things with their products and therefore thinking their products are perfect. anyhow, i do think there are some 'magical' factors with it but anyhow, that's apple's strategy anyway, and well, their strategy on being so works - at least their fault are not as magnified as google/android's are.

Whow, this discussion has gone way beyond what it started out for. Strange isn't it, in an open source world - where everything is free, and with the assumption that everyone loves free stuff, we are discussing about the problems that the free world is giving to us.

Yes, Android is new, and there is a lot to be improved. If anyone has problems with it, well, opt-out. Rome was not built in one day. This Android baby will take time to grow up too. Maybe come back several years later when you have confidence in the platform. That would perhaps clear the answers we have.

Google's intention for Android is money. LOL. What did you expect? Who would spend so much effort in this world and not earn a reward? Google has already provided almost everything for free. Their only source of income are the ads. Thats what keep them going. Thats what keeps us getting newer stuff from them. Free stuff. I'd like to write a very long explanation on Linux in contrast to what mfitri77 typed, but I have someone who is much more eligible than me to explain that. I have asked his favor to join in the fun and I hope he will He's our senior, and has excellent understanding in GNU/Linux and UNIX platforms. I've sent this thread to him, its up to him whether he wants to layout his opinions.

You sounded like a preacher.

And the other you, you give too much f***. How's that working out for you?

Damn man. Why so serious?

Android market is growing. Good. Now I can have this warm feeling fingering my phone.

Android market is shrinking and dropped dead suddenly, good. I can move to the next fun thing.

As most of the "VS" threads, there will always these kind of 'flame' and strong supporters.

I don't want to lean on to any sides, because, both iPhones and Androids are good mobile OS. PERIOD. If you like monotonous iPhones, then it is up to you. Personally I prefer more freedom, and that's why I chose Android, Nexus One. Remember freedom of choice.

Anyway, every OSes have their own strength and weakness. Before that, I'll like to share a bit about OS.

hw <-> firmware/kernel <-> OS <-> apps/sw <-> users

Here we can see in a working system, there will be several parts which closely linked to each other. Now, Android and WebOS or Chrome OS has similar, kernel, which is the Linux kernel. But, the we got diffrent interfaces/GUIs because of the OS and apps layers. Yes, it is possible to port WebOS to Android phones, if hp/palm release the OS codes

Now. Linux has been in industries for many years, even in certain model of Sony Bravia LCD HDTV . It can scaled from very small (IBM watch) to the fastest super computer, or even on US figther jets or space shutltle. Scaled mean, the kernel is very flexible, it can be made very small or very complex based on user's need. Yes, the Linux source code is 'bloated' with feautures in every releases. Most of the codes are for hardware drivers. As I said earlier, you can choose what you want to be in your kernel. This is the beauty of Free and Open Source Software (FOSS). You have several type of filesystems, I/O schedulings, QoS, .... and even it includes many CPU platforms codes too. I don't thinks MS or Apple able to provide kernel for more than 2 CPU types/platforms Am I correct ? So, Now we can see that, the 'bloat'ness is to support plethora of platforms, which most of us even knew if they are exist.


App's count:
Is it relavant to you?
If Apple have 200k apps, and android has 50 k apps, how many apps you can put in your device ? Are you intalling several similar apps? 10? 100? 1000? 10000? I am not the person who like to brag about how many pages of apps' icons. I only install which I frequently use, and I got what I want with Android. Anyway, I always use my N1 primarily as phones and checking my mails, remote access to my servers,... Game? mmm.. not much, I like simple games such as othello/reversi. I got several 3D games, and I only used it as a benchmark and testing for my own kernel development Hey,... I can create my own kernel... which is you can only dream with other closed solutions.

Yes, everyone have their own reasons to choose the platform. Up to you la, because I cannot force you to choose and like Android. If you think iPhone is superior, then, I cannot say bad words about iPhones. It is your choice.

Ok, Android is growing faster and faster, and there will be some walls or gaps which must be to overcome. I also did not say that Android is perfect, but, it still better than other mobile OSes, IMHO. But for sure, Android has many varieties of phones to choose from. Also the spec is getting better and better. I hope, my next Android smartphone will be using OLET (Organic Light Emitting Transistor) or the Mirasol technology, for more better battery life. Until then, I'll stick to my N1. Hopefully, I can install WebOS too.


BTW, you still can give your opinions about both platforms. If you think Android is bad, then others should not condemn. He might be right, because NOTHING IS PERFECT!!...

So, I hope this thread will be calm and cooled down and respect each others. If you have points to say, just say it. This is open discussion and we have to open minded.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by bahathir: May 21 2010, 11:32 PM

That is why I said, I don't deserve to speak on Linux behalf I used Windows in my early days, experienced Linux enough and use MacOSX for my current daily OS. Indeed, we are not fighting here. Its just a heated debate that everyone is enjoying being a fanboy. If it was a quarrel, I wouldn't have invited you to join and share your words

Great explanation. Enjoyed reading it

iPhone 4.0 vs Android 2.2 – War is Over

http://www.taranfx.com/iphone-4-vs-android-2-2

Looking forward this June and the end of this year: Q4.

lol...android community should no argue

com'mon isnt that matter who win each people got their own perspective ...

so lets no talk out of the topic.

all argument pls settle in PM

PM only huh??
Anyway, with Froyo will be released soon, the market will be stronger than ever.
I hope so...

Politically correct question and answer from manufacturer to customer.

Q : Will I be able to upgrade to 2.2?

A : We are comitted to ensure that our user have the best experience possible. At this point however we regret to inform you that the hardware doesn't support the new os.

Real Answer : Buy the new phone lah. We no time upgrade your phone.

if not everyone wait for update, then their new hp no one wan..makan sendiri oledi..

Find custom ROM first..
Then, only BUY NEW PHONE!!

lol! android is the best. no joke.
rooting it will make it UNBEATABLE.