Hi all,

I was told most of the break in problems happen through the roof

Any good suggestion how to counter this problem?

P.S. I tried to ask in kopitiam section, but i only got silly answers

Thanks

SS or DS?

DS

cement the roof tiles

you serious?

cheaper way would be to add another piece of lengthy wood / metal (older homes still have wooden roof supports) across to block the roof tiles from being removed. it's still possible to remove but will take longer to do so.

more expensive way would be to close up the whole area with multiple ply woods or zinc roof.

don't forget to add in a motion sensor under the roof to detect any movements from the intruders.

install bulb wire within the roof & ceiling~

hmm.. but using this method, won't it affect the ventilation air flow?

As for motion sensor, there prolly will have cockroaches, rats, cats, walking by... it will be an false alarm all the time... hmmm

You ask contractor to add grill above your ceilings. There's contractors that offer such services. I remember seeing a few in service noticeboard.

from roof manhole? of just break in from any part of roof?

contact sensor at manhole will help. But if any part of ceiling, than motion detector shld be ok. mine motion detector above the ceiling has never given me any false alarm, not sure whether there is no cockcroaches to trigger the alarm or the alarm sensitivity is low.

bro,

motion sensor i plan to do but that only will help to let us get some where safer. still the intruder will come in

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Added on January 30, 2010, 11:43 pmwhat's bulb wire?

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Added on January 30, 2010, 11:44 pmwhat's the difference between roof manhole and other part of the roof?

This post has been edited by brotan: Jan 30 2010, 11:44 PM

He meant barb wire. The one on top of the conventional wire fence. Grill is still a better choice IMO.

thanks

i think i get a good idea what to do

1) Put metal grill to slow down the thief

2) at the same time put motion sensor

this way, even if the thief wants to break through the metal grill, he needs time and he knows he don't have the time becuz ppl know they are there

haha...

what do you think guys?

thats sounds ok. BTW dont mind to tell which area is yr place? is roof break in very common there?

USJ. haven't move in yet but i heard pretty common in PJ, USJ, Cheras and most part of KL

Thats why I am doubtful and feel kinda unsecured living in landed .so choose for condo ..at least my roof is solid cement plus condo is way cheaper .....

Condo usually will have the "super good luck" of getting break-in by the insider thru front door n kitchen area, no where is safe nowadays. Not suprise to hear that some tenant of condo is a full time thief just a matter of time before they kena caught. This is the thing that happen all the time.

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Added on January 31, 2010, 7:55 amProper way will be 3 layers of protection, u put a lot of wood, cantonese call "kok chai" in between the wood of the roof, don't leave any space between those wood. Second layer you should put a those "pagar" then last layer u use zink to cover up and nailed them to those roof.

Motion detector will cause false alarm if u put in the roof becos they detect intruder by movement and temperature. Any drastic drop or increase of temperature will trigger the false alarm becos inside the roof there is air movement which is quick fast changes. A better way will be to place a set of Photobeam sensor, this is infrared sensor. Anyone pass thru and break the link of the sensor will trigger the alarm. You can adjust the height and coverage of the sensor too. I have them in my house roof as well as window area at the back of 1st floor terrace house, anyone put their hands on my window will trigger the alarm, but if got bird fly by then it won't trigger becos the height and timing sensor will tell its not a intruder.

This post has been edited by Tohsan: Jan 31 2010, 07:55 AM

yupe. tohsan is right. but how much does it cost to do all necessary?

i wonder after you install the grills, still they are able to break in?

it also really depends on the location of your house, the middle of you, the safer. because your neighbours can help to see your house.

or try to make your house looks poor so that no one wants to target.

I have consult alarm specialist...they say u can install alarm on the ceiling...u will be alert if some1 break in. It sense by vibration.

This post has been edited by junkeat: Jan 31 2010, 02:47 PM

bro,

i don't want to spend too much money on the protection. Moreover, if put too many things until no space between the wood, if got roof leakage, the repair man can still repair the roof?

i don't plan to put motion detector on the roof but between the roof & ceiling. Make sense?

this photobeam sensor is what? never heard of it. is it like those movie with red beam?

sure can repair ma, the space between the roof n ceiling got clearance also. no need put motion sensor in the roof they give u more heart attack then serving their purpose.

Photobeam is infra-red sensor, the distance can be something like 200-400 feets some can goes even further, they run in a straightline just like the one u see from the Mission Impossible movie , they cost something like RM600 for a pair up to a few k depend on the features that u want.

add grill and padlock to ceiiling entrance/exit.

@dvinez
Not much use, since other areas like ceiling board can be easily "dismantled" and climb down.

ya tats right, thief target area will be from roof, once they open up the roof tiles, they will climb in, if u sealed up that area, they will either go thru other area or target other house becos it takes too long and too much risk for them.

Just add a layer of BRC will do. Else put in motion detector between roof & ceiling. The sensitivity can be adjusted.

No it wont, normally only the size of cat will trigger the alarm unless you adjusted to high sensitivity.

ic...so motion sensor is the best way though..

can be the best n the worst if u didn't adjust the sensetivity correctly.

So, if I do this way, enough ? Don't want to spend too much money on this

1) Add motion sensor between Roof & Celing to detect movement if thief comes in. Will sound alarm if they do

==> At least scare him a bit

2) Add barb wire to the same area. 2x benefit. Those small time thief (w/ poorly equipped tools) will just see the barb and sien liao. Project abandon

Those better equipped thief may still try but with the motion sensor in place, most likely will trigger even b4 he reach the ceiling. In this case, either he quickly scrambled away (and get many cuts in the process) or he is still determined to come through (but by that time, I would have enough time to call reinforcement and lock ourselves safely)

What do you think?

hi all,

the last thread on how to deal with thief coming from the roof died but i think can still discuss. So i restart the thread here

After so many si fu give suggestion, my plan is this .

1) Seal the roof tiles with cement

2) Put some infra red sensor between ceiling & roof in case, they still break in

For #1, is to discourage them to target my house

FOr #2, in case they still daring to come in, at least my family members have time to hide in safe place

What do you think?

Btw, is it expensive to cement your roof tiles?

i would not put a motion sensor in my roof. no use if i know someone is already inside right? better secure the entire house perimeter with good motion sensors (animal safe, no false alarm). so if someone approaches it triggers alarm BEFORE the enter the house. also adding extra wood under the roof tiles and maybe putting a closing sheet makes sense. i'd make sure the zink is placed from inside so it cant be easily removed. also the sheet or grill should be secured with screws and those should then be soldered close so they cant be removed easily. beats nails 10x.

bro,

the sensor (prefer the infra red sensor rather than motion sensor) in the roof (not on top of the roof but between roof & ceiling) is to alert us to hide in safe place in case of break in from roof.

Even if you put sensor around your house, the thief can climb through neighbours roof to yours (thus avoiding your sensors). Or you actually have other ideas ?

What is this “closing sheet” ? How is the zinc placed ? The whole roof area ?

Don’t quite understand your last few suggestions. Got pic to show ?

Motion detector detects only motion (movement), not temperature.

You guard your windows with what I have suggested?

what did you suggest?

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Added on February 18, 2010, 7:45 pmwhat did you suggest?

This post has been edited by brotan: Feb 18 2010, 07:45 PM

I put a pair of "Photo-Beam/Barrier Sensor" at back of the house on the 1st floor,the infra-red signal of the Barrier Sensor can stretch to the lenght of 200 feets, anyone try climb up n touches the window, it will trigger the alarm instantly. Already using it for a while so far no false alarm even with cats and bird stopping by the window sometime. Very reliable.

Good.

What is the area of coverage for your photo-beam? Can the thief leap over it, or go underneath the beam?

how much is it?

hi brotan, i'm currently doing up my new house, 2 storey too. understand your concerns on safety of our family.

to counter break-in issue, i will be using zink-like metal plate. think can get those like 2inch across and cost calculated at length. dont need to cover the entire roof area. just put them close ienough with less than 6 inches clearance of each plate. if the thief wans to get in, he will need to go thru these plates. its not unbreakable, but the sound they make will trigger even the next door neighbour. so when they see it, i'm sure they will almost wont try to get in.

also i'll be installing alarm security system, also placing sensors on the ceiling. make sure u get good quality grills at areas like near the roof, water tank, etc where they can come in. i be getting rod irons like quality grill for those area. little bit more $$, but for safety its worth it.

if budget is not really a concern, u can put woods or 'kok chai' like other forumers suggested its much more safer. but make sure dont get 2nd hand wood, later might have termite issue.

i decided not to do up too much of my front and back area, as it might attract un-necessary attentions. just make it look simple and neat.

good luck to u, let us know hows the progress ok? mine shld be completed within a week starting tmr. my father is an ex-contrator, so he got some experience and he hav done my sister house before this. so basically he is re-using same method on my house roof. for manpower, u can just ask the ppl who is doing your grills to do it together, with some additional cost.

they unlikely to leap over becos i install the sensor on the wall mainly to guard the window. Technically they can,it all depend on how u plan to install it whether in a straight line or go for 45 degree to cover some "blind spot".

The maximum area to cover according to the manual is 200 feets for width as for height will depend on how long is the sensors, my one is about 2 1/2 feets long.

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Added on February 19, 2010, 7:17 amthe sensor from usa as claimed by brochure for RM850 for a pair while hacking and installation cost another RM400, all in RM1250 for this pair of sensor alone, not inclusive of other part of the alarm.

All in I spend about RM5k for my home security system.

This post has been edited by Tohsan: Feb 19 2010, 07:17 AM

Can you post the picture of the sensor (or the website)? I would like to compare it with mine.

I found their website http://www.seco-larm.com/E-964-QxxxQ.htm , have a look. Not the best but I think good enough for my house. I make the mistake the range is 200M not 200 feets.

This post has been edited by Tohsan: Feb 19 2010, 10:29 AM

Alright, I know these products.

My concerns are:

- The product is rated IP55, may not be water/dust proof for outdoor use over a long period of time.
- It says it has 4 beams, but did not say how the 4 beams are positioned.
- Immunity against direct sunlight. Not sure if they will have intermittent problem or not if the receiver is directly against the sunlight.

soory my sensor suggestion was for bungalow. for link house of course have to somehow secure the link parts to. not too sure what to do there but a beam shooting from top of roof down might be a good idea.

I think put in the zink plate or grill will be more reliable.

Because when the thief saw that thing also lazy to come in, because need to take more time to break in and some more if want to break the zink plate or grill will need to bring up more toots to cut it, while they cutting it, I think nearly 2 or 3 of your surround neighbor also can hear it. So mostly they will give up.Some more if you put in an extra detector I think while they cutting also will trigger the alarm already.

Unless the thief very canggih and bring up the laser cutter or welding machine to cut it, then it will be not much sound creating but still need to go through the final trigger. So I think put up this 2 item is safe enough

The 4 beams position wise actually is up to you to position as long as there is no blocking in between, even if u put it at 45 degree angle it still work as long as both beam signal are connected. As for the other 2 points can't comment now only time will tell, lucky at the back of my house most of the time the direct sun light don't stay too long.

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Added on February 19, 2010, 6:38 pmits a good idea but u might need a very very strong spot-light to do that.

This post has been edited by Tohsan: Feb 19 2010, 06:38 PM

the grill idea is pretty good and practical

how much does it cost ? can use the hollow type or my use solid ones ?

Tohsan,

i think a PVR beam with a good range should do the trick if you have a per-safe one. we secured the entire house's perimeter like that. so before you can place a ladder to the roof you trigger alarm already. you approach the doors or windows - also alarm is off already. can even set alarm to call police and play pre-recorded distress message which is pretty neat. and those pet-safe sensors (once fine-tuned) hardly ever produce false alarms and are totally weather proof. range is probably around 20 m in both directions from the PVR. i'm quite happy with them. but for the roof one probably would have to cover/close one side so it doesnt shoot into the air.

brotan,
if you want to use grill better get a good (i.e. solid) one. the more work you create the better your neighbour's place will look to a thief

You may refer to to this:

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1016556/+1900

i am staying in terrace house corner lot

i personally went up the roof of my house
its actually kinda big space which defintely can make rooms out of it

but for what i did, i diy by adding extra woods which make movement is impossible for a person to go thru. i also lay nails penetrating out, shattered glasses on the roof floor

but once i do hear heavy bangs, heavy walks on the roof, climb up and checked ... nothing there

nothing loss in my house anyway

but how much would it cost for the grill per sq feet ?

brotan,

not too sure. you should check with your contractor to get an estimation. we did it with a complete house-redo and got it at a very low price as extra benefit of some sort. but the roof area to close was huge (over 3000 sqft) so i dont think my pricing would be too helpfull. if you really need i can look up the cost in my expense sheet. i think i still have the number somewhere.

I also not sure about the price, because I am waiting my house to collect the the key and then I will look for those grill contractor look for their opinion.I think is not cheap also, because the roof top is very huge and big. hehe

But I also think of putting the zink plate, because it can reduce heat from the roof and actually is very hard to break the zink plate also. once you touch it sure got sound come out and very loud also. If want to safe cost abit I think also can add extra wood in between, so just make the hole small enough and can't go through. Unless they bring the saw to cut it, but very loud and waste a lot of time also. While they cutting it, I think you have enough time tp make a call to 999 already

1st golden rule.... never ask serious question in kopitiam... if you plan to get silly answer & stupid yet spamming post, go there

I did this on my house ........ DS... since I`m selling building materials, so I use this and ask the welder to weld it on top of the roof....

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Added on February 22, 2010, 5:41 pmP/S.... latest news from my customers.... now thief are using car jet to jet open the grill rather than saw/cutter

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Added on February 22, 2010, 5:44 pmcorrection... zinc plate are good heat conductors......

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Feb 22 2010, 05:44 PM

what is that ?

ya they do use car jack nowadays to pry open window grill, tat will happen if the distance between the grill pattern is "wide" enough for the car jack to fit in otherwise it will be difficult a bit. Thats why I opt for Barrier Sensor, u tresspass oni the alarm will trigger without any knocking or hacking at all.

If its a landed property
Like my house , install a layer of zink before installing the ceiling

i think the best and most economical way is to install barb wire on the roof there + the wire mesh as show by one of the posters.

Based on family member experiences, true for USJ 13, 11, 2 ESPECIALLY and 9. Not sure for other parts of usj.

makesure after u put up those bard wire in the roof when u want to do something up the roof, don't step into those wire and get "trap" by it. My old house use to put these too but the "smart thief" still able to escape those bard wire n ransact the whole house, and escape back thru the roof.

This post has been edited by Tohsan: Feb 24 2010, 02:17 PM

hmmm smart thief.. that is one that i had not encountered before... maybe the barb wire is not properly set kua... yea i will bear in mind to bring my spot light up when i'm going to do some work up there..

heard from a friend he and his uncle used to rig their roof with barb wire and then hook it to the electricity pole outside.- street light pole to be more exact... i wonder would it actually work ... its like having an electric fence in the roof.

Those "electric fence" in the roof thing got one case in Sabah, one thief was killed when try to break-in, the death body was stuck to the electric fence until the owner come back.

So a lot of houses got blacked out because someone got trapped on the roof?

This post has been edited by wodenus: Feb 24 2010, 02:29 PM

I have motion detector installed between roof and ceiling.
It gave me problem because around my housing area, some pests larger than mouse like to roam the roof.

So many times my alarm went off in the middle of the night, waking the entire neighbourhood.

Nowadays I have to bypass the alarm on the ceiling

LOL.... fried thief.... hmm maybe i should try this when i get my own property ...

Wow, so will it make you in trouble with against law? because the thief get kill

not sure, read the news from The Stars last year, one word for the thief "You ask for it!" serve them good!

yup... i dont think there is any law regulating that... it is just like you are stealing copper from the substation and kena fried... can the family members sue TNB?

in Bolehland ma, semua ok 1

Wa that is damn dangerous, but if really happen that, is not good lor,because the fried thief die on top of your house. Sounds scary

not as scary as someone that get C4 and blow to pieces ma

LOL

if u ask someone to repair your roof how ? die lah like that

should be able to disable the electricity mah...

switch off!

These are the steps I've taken to prevent entry through the roof.
- Cementing you roof tiles.
- Add grille in between the roof and plaster ceiling
- Motion sensor that covers 360 degree (Each can only cover 90 degree so I placed four of it)
- Keep all your ladders indoor and if you have no choice, chain them up

That's about it.

This is very insightful. Am moving in to a DS and i have heard stories on breakins via roof in SS2 and BU. Quite scary!

I see many views on ideas. Any pics and how much will it cost (average cost maybe?)

no one think about in case of fire, able to rescue or not?

i read somewhere, insunce co. will not let you claim if you do such modification on roof.

maybe someone can check and let us know. i heard say only, so far ...

i dont think so. under the tort law, there is a concept called occupier's liability. we as the owner of a house have different duty of care toward our invitee, licencee & trespasser. theft/intruders are tresspassers and we dont have any duty to ensure the safety of any tresspasser.

i have decided

planning to just add extra beam (kap chai) to my roof. Will cost around extra RM 2.5k for those (22x60 built up)

hope this is good enough

makesure the gap between the "kok chai" are not wider than 1 inch.

This post has been edited by Tohsan: Apr 14 2010, 09:50 AM

got it. thanks

Ya, what is photobeam sensor btw?

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a long sensor about 2.5 feets long and 1 inch width, will trigger the security system if there is any big object tresspass the signal. Its something like a invisible barrier sensor.

Tohsan, can you upload some pics?? hard to imagine what you mention here. Thanks

http://www.seco-larm.com/E-964-QxxxQ.htm

tohsan, since this thing is up in the roof and we seldom go up, how would we know if the devise is still in working condition after some time?

tq.

my alarm security company technician will come to my house for check & maintenance of all the sensors every 6 months or as per request for a small fee.