ure thinking too much lol. and i can guarantee u any decent 2 heroes can win the rhasta/siren lane. 

Don't feel like voting, as this thing very much depends on player skill.
On top of that, i think your heroes in the lane seems weird to me.
If I can decide, i would do the below:

Team 1 - Siren+Warlock, Axe+Omniknight, Rhasta
Team 2 - Magnus+Ancient, Venom+Tide,  Enigma
Team 1:
Rhasta can solo very well, and must get to level 6 asap if want to focus on pushing. Kill or not is not really that important for rhasta.

Axe.. I dont know if anyone still using battle hunger, but at least me and my friends dont. We focus on berserker call and counter helix. If the axe can berserker call nicely (should be able to with the omni slow aura), the omni heal combine together can deal lots of damage it a short time.
Siren and warlock, just ensare and let warlock hit the fellow, dont really need to kill them. Make them red hp is more than enough to stop the enemy from farming.

Team 2:
Magnus and ancient can work together to spam and damage enemy, but of course dont expect to kill unless the enemy is really bad.

Veno and tide both slow, and also with venom range attack can fully utilized the armor reduction period, as compare to a melee hero

Enigma get to level 6 asap, with blackhole can make a big different. The main thing for enigma is the hp% reduction skill (can't remember the name) and blackhole, which ignore magic immunity.
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Regarding your setting:

Rhasta + siren vs Venom+Enigma = Venom + enigma win.
Rhasta low hp, and enigma stun can cancel rhasta net easily. With venom poison can destroy naga image easily.
If focus on pushing, venom ward and enigma creep can destroy tower pretty fast. They can destroy enemy tower before level 6 (as opposed to your case which need level 6 to be effective).
As for your level 6 tactic, it's easy to counter.


Venom  + Enigma  is good at harrassing early game, stun + poison + babies can push quite aggresively.


Rhasta + siren double net focus attack + lightining  either 1 hero early game if enemy push, hug tower awhile den push back...  later level 6, siren cast sleep.  both heroes move in, rhasta Snakes, shackles Enigma  + FF him till die. 

Siren sleep is the key to break Engma and venom... 

Later when omni gang 2gether.. venom poison cant do much dmg when Omni GA or heal + warlock heal.



Case 1:
If rhasta net enigma and naga net venom
when venom wake up, just ulti and poison, at least 1 die (naga or rhasta). If lucky both die.

Case 1:
If rhasta net venom and naga net enigma
when enigma wake up, just ulti, which rhasta net is being canceled, the repeat the step above.

Warlock + axe vs Magnus + Tide = no one wins
Warlock can heal, but with limited mana early game, and heal very little in the early game, a tree or healing slave can do better job.
If you want battle hunger to damage enough, you won't have enough skill point on battle cry or counter helix. If you dont want battle hunger to damage enough, why bother learning it. With tide slow, axe will have no chance to get into enemy hero range to call. On top of that, battle hunger can be canceled easily if they can deny or farm creep accurately. If the tide and magnus dare to wait for chance, tide slow, and magnus wave twice (240 mana for tide and 180 mana for magnus) should be able to kill warlock easily.

Warlock with sobi mask + mana potion can keep on spam. Later with void or perseverance.. can keep spam curse/heal.
Axe can cast hunger range quite far oso.. If the tide/magnus got curses and retreat, axe cast hunger direct.. if the enemy hero try to come back kill creeps... open for FF or axe charge in with Helix.  Warlock is range + curse + hunger.. enemy heroes.. 1 of them sure have hard time to stay in lane  and the other also hero also hard to farm coz no support when his partner back to heal.  Once lvl 6... Chaos stun direct, axe battle cry..  Warlock curse + axe cullin blade.. tide/magnus will die.. unless Tide ult before axe battlecry or warlock cast chaos. .. 

Omniknight vs Ancient = ancient wins
Simple, range vs melee (unless the range really bad), with ancient skill to stun, and the skill to add damage on hero, omni knight will have a hard time.

This one Ancient wins.. but later when omni gang comes to help.. push and kill is very fast.

Siren can cast sleep easily.. why no chance to cast sleep? If Magnus or Enigma get Dagger, they wasted money and hp will be very low.
need very good timing from tide to ult 1st,, blink in den cast ult..

With Snakes, Chaos, Naga Images, Axe helix - Enemy heroes that try to come close will die very fast if get net/stun or trap in battlecry.
Warlock heal + Omni GA + heal spell... can last long in battle field and enuf time chiong in & out for the kill/break tower.
Naga can sleep anytime either bfr engage or retreat.....chances to die is much more slim if anything goes wrong.


Well, if late game, as long as enigma or magnus get dagger, the other team will have little chance to fight.
Of course you can break tower easily, but then if enemy cast skill first (magnus stun or enigma ulti) = whole team dead, your siren got no chance to sleep.
if you can move in that easy... warlock ulti stun is only 1 second, enough to deal damage and cancel channeling, but not enough to move in. with your setting, axe level 6 have what level of berserker call and counter helix? since you learn battle hunger, i doubt those 2 can deal enough damage.  if the other side are tide and magnus, double stun and wave + water = both axe and warlock die.

And you won't have enough mana to cast berserker call, battle hunger and culling blade at level 6 even with full mana.
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Well, just my opinion.. you can agree or disagree it. After all, it's all up to personal tactic and experience.

Well, it's all up to personal opinion and the playstyle. There is no right or wrong actually.

I would say Enigma midnight pulse can counter the healing easily.

Combine the tide, magnus and enigma ulti can disable for total like at least 10 second, which that 10 second is good enough for venom ulti to work. On top of the ancient ulti can work quite well in that 10 second as well.

In the end it's all up to who start the combo first would win. As for the axe, omni, naga, warlock, rhasta side warlock and naga ulti is the key to retreat or start the gang. But for the other team, any of tide, magnus or enigma can do the job.
Just a bit more on the rhasta naga vs enigma and venom
With naga sleep, you might be able to kill enigma, but most likely your rhasta will die. And quite possible naga will die as well. Due to their low hp can't really survive from venom ulti and poison. Venom can still attack and cast spell even iwhen ensnare by naga.

any 2 heroes? simple, sven/leshrac, sandking/lina, veno/chieftain, es/potm. and ETC ETC. 

team 1 late game keep go BD wit sleep. mati la u

I really wonder what you really looking for.. if anyone say good about team 2 you will like counter back without much thinking (or at least it seems to me that way)...

You sounds like only team 1 knows what to do (stay further away to avoid AOE skill and stuff), and team 2 dunno how to blink stun, black hole or whatever... As far as magnatur ulti concern, it's not channelling, so your rasta trick wont work.

A good player on Enigma will be well aware of what hero can give them trouble (stop their channeling of ulti). Most likely will focus on those heroes or just get a bkb.

On top of that.. what makes you think that team 2 will stay together for your warlock to ulti? And what makes you think that no one will buy linken or bkb to counter sleep and other spell?

Perhaps you favor team 1 more than team 2, but then others opinion is still valid. After all, it's the matter of skill and teamwork effort.

Well, for team 2, the combo will of course starts with magnatur. In that 4 second, should be enough to kill rhasta. If not, enigma blackhole can include rhasta as well. The stun duration from magnatur should be enough for enigma to move into range and cast spell.

What if the other team everyone has hex skill (via item or skill) and/or bkb?

Don't really feel like answering on this anymore. Dagger is needed, but only 1 for the whole team, that is for late game.
Back to your scenario:
You think his teammate just stand there sleeping wait magnatur walk up???
They also got disable to cancel shackles, say ancient skill 1 or enigma skill 1 or even tide ulti.
u answer urself already.. siren can just sleep them. When they wake up, get ambush kaw kaw..


If warlock is not within range and haven't casted ulti, why would the enigma use ulti???
Enigma will die before can ult - Axe & warlock  can cast hunger + curse from far far away.. Enigma die even bfr can come close ult

After sleep, just cancel rhasta shackle with stun skill, then with tide and magnatur ulti is enough to kill rhasta, siren and warlock. I dont think you have enough time to kill tide and magnatur together even with berserker call. If warlock ulti first, just give enigma chance to ulti.

Midnight pulse and blackhole ignores magic immunity.
Ok, we put it this way, all 10 heroes at level 6.
If Rhasta got shackles and hex, means no lightning.
If Axe got berserker call and counter helix, means no battle hunger.
Naga got Ensnare and one of image or critical
Omni got what? I dunno, heal and rebel or heal and slow aura.
Warlock... I dunno your build, sure got shadow word, but slow or linked damage dunno which one you choose.
Anyway, how you want to chain disable enemy HEROES (5, not 1) with your shackles and net??? At most disable one. Your berserker call at level 3 might helps a bit, but that's about it.
You can break a tower with sleep and rhasta ulti easily, but then... you never consider the fact that sleep and snake ward are taking lots of mana, for a level 6 naga and level 6 rhasta

On top of that, Tide Ulti AOE is very big, big enough to stay far away, but still stun your rhasta most of the time.

- if tide ult from far, his team hero need very long time walk to reach n engage in close range fight. This give ample time for team 1 to GA, heal and counter with sleep and torn team 2 apart when they wake up


And also, even if you manage to sleep and break the tower, the moment enemy wake up your heroes die (if you still stay there and wait). Tide ulti, magnatur ulti and enigma ulti can kill most of your heroes, then counter push back.

Tide ult.. i believe hard to stop, but magnatur and enigma want to ult w/o dagger.. quite easy to predict and stop.
Have u missed out GA? After sleep, Omni can cast 5 secs time, this 5 secs time is good enuf to heal/protect for tide /venom ult or
chiong direct kill TEAM 2 weak heroes.. venom, enigma, anciet.. Omni + Warlock can heal any heroes down on hp.
Axe under spell shield oso can chiong in and berserker call lure any nearby enemy heroes.


Magnatur can use the shockwave to farm, the mana cost is low and cooldown is fast. It might not be as effective as the range hero, but still a very good way to farm. Tide dont even need any item to be strong, with enough hp and the damage reduction skill, tide can survive long enough to cast his ulti. Especially those players that learn the damage reduction skill first (like me, i wont learn the 20% chance damage on hit skill first)
and one thing... just to explain a bit:

Against warlock and axe equip with clarity mana potion? spam curse and hunger lvl 2 or 3 mag or tide will have hard time to farm..



Midnight pulse is dealing 4% damage per second, say at level 2
Given a axe around 1000HP means 40 damage per second, which means countering the warlock heal.
And it's a aoe as well, which is good at countering omni GA. After all, GA only give hp regen and armor, it wont reduce any spell damage.

When the midnight pulse is level 4, it's 6% damage per second. which say if you got 1500hp, means 90 damage per second. With the correct combo (ulti of those heroes), it's easy to keep enemy in the midnight pulse aoe area.
I won't say team 1 or team 2 would win, after all, it's all depends on players' skill and their teamwork effort. Both teams has a high chance to win if player correctly, and also has a high chance to lose if make mistake.
Anyway, i wont reply to this anymore...

Ok.. thxs for ur reply.. i know team 2 might have chance to win if game prolong far and get all those GOD item BKB, LINKENS, DAGGERS, etcs.... but if team 1 play aggressively pushing and ganking hard early game.. team 2 will be lower lvl, less good items thus IMO will lose in less than 30 mins. . 

ah.. really want to beat you up.. seriously....
the sleeping there is not naga sleep lah... i  mean you think his teammate do nothing meh

also, even with sleep, you can hit any hero when hero is sleeping...zz....
As for your item??? that team DONT NEED item to kill the other team. Period. Dont limit your thought with must have certain item. Thanks.

Unquestionable, Team 2 will win. Here i explain why:
1) Ultimate AoE combo - All 5 heroes got aoe ulti.
    Here the combo, venom becomes lure. when opponents attempt to kill it. Tide blinks out ulti. Continue with enigma blinks ulti and midnight pulse, then venom and ancient immediately cast ulti. Because of enigma ulti effect, opponents be sucked inward. Here come the magnus ulti - all bashed for 4sec stun. It is the end .

To prove i'm right, i will calculate the raw damages of the combo (excluded def):
Tide lv3 Ulti -      450
Enigma lv 3 Ulti - 240 (Minor)
Midnight Pulse - 6% x 8s = 48% hp loss (alot )
Venom lv3 Ulti -  972
Ancient lv3 Ulti -  500+
Magnus lv 3 Ulti - 300
--------------------------------
          48%hp + 2462

Think, it is just raw damages. How about normal attack + other skills. Deadly.

Example: axe with 4k hp, directly -48%hp left 2080hp. even with high def it takes only 1000damage out of 2462, left 1080hp. few blow from magnus = heaven for waiting you. same theory applied on other heroes.

2) Excellent Late Game Heroes.
    Their combos have made them a marvelous late game team. On the other hand, team 1 are less efficient in late game stage. they only focus on early and mid game.

Two reasons above have clarified the victory of Team 2, although both team are not the best combo heroes.

* If you think team 1 can win, it seems like there is no teamplay in your though.
* I hope TS will happy with my post
Magnus & Tide are what? Feeders? No, they are also tanker.

Early Game:
Rhasta go lightning + shackles.
Siren can go net + crits.

ROUND 1 - Rhasta+Siren vs Venom+Enigma
Enigma's stun breaks rhasta's shackle. Venom's poison superior irritative. One stun one poison is deadlier than shackle, net since both deal damage. Enigma with his summons, incredible pushers.
Team 2 wins.


Alot ppl underestimated axe hunger skill.. this skill minus alot dmg from far..+ Warlock curse, enemy tat get hunger if try to cancel need to kill creeps exposing to axe helix, creeps + warlock range ff. Usually smart axe will hunger when enemy hero retreat back after get curse den only axe cast hunger.. more longer dmg more.
Magnatur wave can predict and evade ...

ROUND 2 - Warlock+Axe vs Magnus+Tide
If i play axe i won't learn the skill call Battle Hunger, stat is more preferable. Back to topic, follow your tactic, "hunger & shadow word" is not a good lane control combo, consumed too much mana & time taken to take effects. however, come to magnus and tide's combo, tide's gush -armor is proportional to magnus' shockwave damage, in addition less mana consuming & direct damage.
Team 2 wins.

This one Ancient win. Omni just farm abit or get lvl up only

ROUND 3 - Omniknight vs Ancient
Omni never win ancient in this situation, even he want to touch him once also a problem.
No doubt hat Team 2 wins in all 3 lanes in early game.

Break mid tower direct to base .. no need every 1st tower. This time team 2 no dagger yet. Team 1 chiong in kill, push tower , repeat after ult cool down
Tell me how u stop axe under anti magic spell + Chaos + snakes + siren cast Sleep  when push down tower ?
If not nearby tower but fight team 2,  Siren cast sleep,all hero move in,  rhasta throw snake, once sleep over, axe Hunger + battle cry near enigma, mag or Tide, warlock curse + throw chaos at enigma, Enigma will die very fast 1st. next target will be Tide Rhasta can shackle tide + lightning, siren can net Ancient

Team 2 under this attack need to depends ALOT on Tide ult for counter attack. Largest AOE. If Tide goes down fast, it will be easier for team 1 to kill other heroes..
If Tide manage to Ult after wake up, Omni GA and together with Warlock heal weak hero + continue to charge n fight.


Mid Game:
Yes, finally team 1 revenges!! stick and push enough to break every 1st tower. However, once any 2 of them (tide, enigma, magnus) got daggers, dominators change again. Proceed to Late Game & the result is that team 2 will win.

*Early and mid game actually hard to estimate as both have their own advantages. If both teams' members are pro, then it will need to wait until late game. still team 2 will win. dota is teamwork 1st, knowledge 2nd, hero 3rd.

"Rhasta go lightning + shackles.
Siren can go net + crits."

I told you, it's useless. if you want, then your rhasta better up hex but still can't kill them. Why? naga's net doesn't damage enemy and i don't why you pump crit 1st, since your atkspeed no fast. You can't even reach enigma then you have combo by them instead. Venomous Gale by venomancer, then follows by enigma's stun, then you will be hit by summons, and heroes.

Siren up critz coz when all regroup to chiong n kill. Its also useful once Siren lvl 6, sleep, Rhasta walk near Enigma n venom, throw Snakes n shackle Enigma, Siren + Rhasta can kill Enigma after sleep spell over. With Critz kill is so fast coz Rhasta net + siren net confirm die 1.... After Enigma dies, Venom is next to be killed.

"Alot ppl underestimated axe hunger skill.. this skill minus alot dmg from far..+ Warlock curse, enemy tat get hunger if try to cancel need to kill creeps exposing to axe helix, creeps + warlock range ff. Usually smart axe will hunger when enemy hero retreat back after get curse den only axe cast hunger.. more longer dmg more.
Magnatur wave can predict and evade ..."

I didn't underestimated it, just i mean it doesn't whole it for overall. It really does high damage the problem is PER SEC!!! mean time taken to take effect and cost alot of mana. The funny thing is you said magnus wave is easily dodgable by prediction. I think you didn't read properly what i wrote, the "tide & magnus's combo" which tide gush will slow and -armor, then magnus wave to make a proportional damage due to low armor of opponent. This combo does the same damage or more than the hunger & curse combo, furthermore, it is mana efficiency & direction damage.



Curse + hunger can cast from far n cant be block early game, which is more easier to evade? gush + wave or Curse + hunger?
Clarity mana potion + cirlets can good spam spell early for axe and warlock. with either mag or tide retreat coz low life..
the other hero against 2 hero will be harder coz warlock is range + axe helix dmg is quite high,


"Break mid tower direct to base .. no need every 1st tower. This time team 2 no dagger yet. Team 1 chiong in kill, push tower , repeat after ult cool down .Tell me how u stop axe under anti magic spell + Chaos + snakes + siren cast Sleep  when push down tower ?
If not nearby tower but fight team 2,  Siren cast sleep,all hero move in,  rhasta throw snake, once sleep over, axe Hunger + battle cry near enigma, mag or Tide, warlock curse + throw chaos at enigma, Enigma will die very fast 1st. next target will be Tide Rhasta can shackle tide + lightning, siren can net Ancient"

I can't stop laughing when i look at your reply. Let me tell you what, "This time team 2 no dagger yet"? You know what mean by "PRO"? Please refer to what you want, two team also pro players... Getting a dagger in early game for a noob also no problem la. LOLZ!! Who cares the axe? Why you cast repel on axe instead of naga? I tell you how i counter axe with repel. I will just follow the procedure . As you must know, repel only block tide ulti, what about magnus & enigma? their ulti work on repeled hero. At the end, the only surviver - axe ^^. I didn't mention to get a blademail because no needed just to counter a single hero.

"Team 2 under this attack need to depends ALOT on Tide ult for counter attack. Largest AOE. If Tide goes down fast, it will be easier for team 1 to kill other heroes.. If Tide manage to Ult after wake up, Omni GA and together with Warlock heal weak hero + continue to charge n fight."

So far i havent seen any player farm direct to dagger at lvl 6 or 7. Even if he save money just to buy dagger, his hp will be damn low and will die even faster during direct all heroes fight.

Sleep? Giving chance for tide to blink away. From your words, i know you don't teamplay alot. Tidehunter won't be standalone, and he always stay behind to backup. Moreover, a better tanker than axe.

There's no arguement, it is more than obvious that team 2 will win at the end.

If u know teamplay, u should know why siren up critz early for fast kill during team gank.  Just with sleep alone, it enuf to buy time for team 1 heroes move in close enemy heroes and ambush them kaw kaw when awake. Tell how team hero counter if siren sleep, all team 1 hero move in ready to crush them once they wake up?
Snakes 1st, When they awake, shackles, + Axe battle cry, Chaos boom stun in, multiple heroes in team2 will get stunned, disabled and die very fast  + get hit by siren critz, omni light etcs.. . With Omni GA, even TIDE/ MAG (high hp) if still alive wanna ult will take some time to kill.. Enigma confirm dies 1st.. 

If team 2 hero din regroup to fight, its much easier to kill them..

To little viper:

Actually i don't want to abuse your last statements but they really seem nonsense. The result is definite unchangeable. If you are talking about two pro teams, then it only comes with Heroes and not Teamwork & Skill cause all pros should consist them. Team 2 obviously is more capable for teamplay and combos.

About this topic, the most hilarious thing is that you ask about our opinions but vice versa you counter our opinions too.

If you still want continue this meaningless topic. I think we will only get this end when we form a team 1 and a team 2. Or you call on a reviewer to rate for our debates.