Don't feel like voting, as this thing very much depends on player skill.


On top of that, i think your heroes in the lane seems weird to me.


If I can decide, i would do the below:

Team 1 - Siren+Warlock, Axe+Omniknight, Rhasta
Team 2 - Magnus+Ancient, Venom+Tide, Enigma


Team 1:
Rhasta can solo very well, and must get to level 6 asap if want to focus on pushing. Kill or not is not really that important for rhasta.

Axe.. I dont know if anyone still using battle hunger, but at least me and my friends dont. We focus on berserker call and counter helix. If the axe can berserker call nicely (should be able to with the omni slow aura), the omni heal combine together can deal lots of damage it a short time.


Siren and warlock, just ensare and let warlock hit the fellow, dont really need to kill them. Make them red hp is more than enough to stop the enemy from farming.

Team 2:
Magnus and ancient can work together to spam and damage enemy, but of course dont expect to kill unless the enemy is really bad.

Veno and tide both slow, and also with venom range attack can fully utilized the armor reduction period, as compare to a melee hero

Enigma get to level 6 asap, with blackhole can make a big different. The main thing for enigma is the hp% reduction skill (can't remember the name) and blackhole, which ignore magic immunity.


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Regarding your setting:

Rhasta + siren vs Venom+Enigma = Venom + enigma win.
Rhasta low hp, and enigma stun can cancel rhasta net easily. With venom poison can destroy naga image easily.
If focus on pushing, venom ward and enigma creep can destroy tower pretty fast. They can destroy enemy tower before level 6 (as opposed to your case which need level 6 to be effective).
As for your level 6 tactic, it's easy to counter.

Case 1:
If rhasta net enigma and naga net venom
when venom wake up, just ulti and poison, at least 1 die (naga or rhasta). If lucky both die.

Case 1:
If rhasta net venom and naga net enigma
when enigma wake up, just ulti, which rhasta net is being canceled, the repeat the step above.



Warlock + axe vs Magnus + Tide = no one wins
Warlock can heal, but with limited mana early game, and heal very little in the early game, a tree or healing slave can do better job.
If you want battle hunger to damage enough, you won't have enough skill point on battle cry or counter helix. If you dont want battle hunger to damage enough, why bother learning it. With tide slow, axe will have no chance to get into enemy hero range to call. On top of that, battle hunger can be canceled easily if they can deny or farm creep accurately. If the tide and magnus dare to wait for chance, tide slow, and magnus wave twice (240 mana for tide and 180 mana for magnus) should be able to kill warlock easily.


Omniknight vs Ancient = ancient wins
Simple, range vs melee (unless the range really bad), with ancient skill to stun, and the skill to add damage on hero, omni knight will have a hard time.



Well, if late game, as long as enigma or magnus get dagger, the other team will have little chance to fight.



Of course you can break tower easily, but then if enemy cast skill first (magnus stun or enigma ulti) = whole team dead, your siren got no chance to sleep.

if you can move in that easy... warlock ulti stun is only 1 second, enough to deal damage and cancel channeling, but not enough to move in. with your setting, axe level 6 have what level of berserker call and counter helix? since you learn battle hunger, i doubt those 2 can deal enough damage. if the other side are tide and magnus, double stun and wave + water = both axe and warlock die.

And you won't have enough mana to cast berserker call, battle hunger and culling blade at level 6 even with full mana.


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Well, just my opinion.. you can agree or disagree it. After all, it's all up to personal tactic and experience.

Well, it's all up to personal opinion and the playstyle. There is no right or wrong actually.

I would say Enigma midnight pulse can counter the healing easily.

Combine the tide, magnus and enigma ulti can disable for total like at least 10 second, which that 10 second is good enough for venom ulti to work. On top of the ancient ulti can work quite well in that 10 second as well.

In the end it's all up to who start the combo first would win. As for the axe, omni, naga, warlock, rhasta side warlock and naga ulti is the key to retreat or start the gang. But for the other team, any of tide, magnus or enigma can do the job.


Just a bit more on the rhasta naga vs enigma and venom
With naga sleep, you might be able to kill enigma, but most likely your rhasta will die. And quite possible naga will die as well. Due to their low hp can't really survive from venom ulti and poison. Venom can still attack and cast spell even iwhen ensnare by naga.

I really wonder what you really looking for.. if anyone say good about team 2 you will like counter back without much thinking (or at least it seems to me that way)...

You sounds like only team 1 knows what to do (stay further away to avoid AOE skill and stuff), and team 2 dunno how to blink stun, black hole or whatever... As far as magnatur ulti concern, it's not channelling, so your rasta trick wont work.

A good player on Enigma will be well aware of what hero can give them trouble (stop their channeling of ulti). Most likely will focus on those heroes or just get a bkb.

On top of that.. what makes you think that team 2 will stay together for your warlock to ulti? And what makes you think that no one will buy linken or bkb to counter sleep and other spell?

Perhaps you favor team 1 more than team 2, but then others opinion is still valid. After all, it's the matter of skill and teamwork effort.

This post has been edited by shadow_0: Jan 25 2010, 05:05 PM

Well, for team 2, the combo will of course starts with magnatur. In that 4 second, should be enough to kill rhasta. If not, enigma blackhole can include rhasta as well. The stun duration from magnatur should be enough for enigma to move into range and cast spell.

Don't really feel like answering on this anymore. Dagger is needed, but only 1 for the whole team, that is for late game.


Back to your scenario:

You think his teammate just stand there sleeping wait magnatur walk up???
They also got disable to cancel shackles, say ancient skill 1 or enigma skill 1 or even tide ulti.


If warlock is not within range and haven't casted ulti, why would the enigma use ulti???
After sleep, just cancel rhasta shackle with stun skill, then with tide and magnatur ulti is enough to kill rhasta, siren and warlock. I dont think you have enough time to kill tide and magnatur together even with berserker call. If warlock ulti first, just give enigma chance to ulti.

Midnight pulse and blackhole ignores magic immunity.


Ok, we put it this way, all 10 heroes at level 6.
If Rhasta got shackles and hex, means no lightning.
If Axe got berserker call and counter helix, means no battle hunger.
Naga got Ensnare and one of image or critical
Omni got what? I dunno, heal and rebel or heal and slow aura.
Warlock... I dunno your build, sure got shadow word, but slow or linked damage dunno which one you choose.

Anyway, how you want to chain disable enemy HEROES (5, not 1) with your shackles and net??? At most disable one. Your berserker call at level 3 might helps a bit, but that's about it.


You can break a tower with sleep and rhasta ulti easily, but then... you never consider the fact that sleep and snake ward are taking lots of mana, for a level 6 naga and level 6 rhasta

On top of that, Tide Ulti AOE is very big, big enough to stay far away, but still stun your rhasta most of the time.

And also, even if you manage to sleep and break the tower, the moment enemy wake up your heroes die (if you still stay there and wait). Tide ulti, magnatur ulti and enigma ulti can kill most of your heroes, then counter push back.


Magnatur can use the shockwave to farm, the mana cost is low and cooldown is fast. It might not be as effective as the range hero, but still a very good way to farm. Tide dont even need any item to be strong, with enough hp and the damage reduction skill, tide can survive long enough to cast his ulti. Especially those players that learn the damage reduction skill first (like me, i wont learn the 20% chance damage on hit skill first)


and one thing... just to explain a bit:
Midnight pulse is dealing 4% damage per second, say at level 2
Given a axe around 1000HP means 40 damage per second, which means countering the warlock heal.
And it's a aoe as well, which is good at countering omni GA. After all, GA only give hp regen and armor, it wont reduce any spell damage.

When the midnight pulse is level 4, it's 6% damage per second. which say if you got 1500hp, means 90 damage per second. With the correct combo (ulti of those heroes), it's easy to keep enemy in the midnight pulse aoe area.




I won't say team 1 or team 2 would win, after all, it's all depends on players' skill and their teamwork effort. Both teams has a high chance to win if player correctly, and also has a high chance to lose if make mistake.



Anyway, i wont reply to this anymore...

This post has been edited by shadow_0: Jan 26 2010, 04:16 PM

ah.. really want to beat you up.. seriously....

the sleeping there is not naga sleep lah... i mean you think his teammate do nothing meh

also, even with sleep, you can hit any hero when hero is sleeping...zz....


As for your item??? that team DONT NEED item to kill the other team. Period. Dont limit your thought with must have certain item. Thanks.