ZZZ
This post has been edited by kbandito: Jan 9 2019, 07:03 PM
ZZZ, ZZ
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 Jan 12 2010, 05:16 PM, updated 7y ago
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1,184 posts Joined: May 2005  
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Jan 12 2010, 07:00 PM
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#2
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1,133 posts Joined: Jan 2005 From: Bandar Puteri Puchong
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QUOTE(kbandito @ Jan 12 2010, 05:16 PM) As quoted, if compounding is the 8th wonder, then leverage is the 9th. Bank won't be so stupid just based on your income tax declared statement, they will still ask for your bank statement, if you can't prove your income it's as good as nothing.I have been thinking lately, is it feasible to inflate your declared income in order to qualify for more housing loan from the bank? An individual with RM3,000/month salary can qualify for a RM320,000 housing loan at BLR-1.8% for 30 years tenure with RM1,480 installment per month. This is the borrowing limit if the bank can only give 50% of the income threshold. Let's say this is for own stay hence there is no rental income. No rental income means you only declare RM36,000 income to the IRB, and paying tax according to that tax bracket. So, if this individual spots a golden opportunity in another property for investment purpose, there is no reason for bank to grant him another loan because he is already at the borrowing limit. Therefore the golden opportunity has to be let go. If, this individual falsely declare a rental income of RM1,500 per month from the property to the IRB and pay more tax, he gets a declared income of RM54,000. He declares a full year rental income, and try to apply for a second loan. He shows the tax form to bank, is it possible for the bank to grant him another RM180,000 housing loan at BLR-1.8% for 30 years tenure with RM830 installment per month? Combining the first and second loan, that totals to RM2,310 monthly fixed commitment, 51% of the monthly income of RM3,000 salary & RM1,500 rental income. Ok, if rental income is not recognized easily by the bank, this individual can easily register for a trading business and declare income from there. This might sounds like crime in the first place but I believe it is not hard to do some twisting to legitimize it. One can only leverage to a certain limit, if he can afford or ready or prepared to take such a risk in leveraging beyond bank's comfort level, the opportunity for profits is more. Of course the investment decision must be an informed decision. Talking about this 'method', is this feasible?  |
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Jan 12 2010, 07:30 PM
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#3
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9,137 posts Joined: Jun 2007 From: Wouldn't be around much, pls PM other mods.
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It would work provided you're a business owner. But than again, which business owner would want to declare more for tax purposes? Some more like Tohsan explained, bank would also want bank statement if you're a business owner to verify your income.
It wouldn't work for normal salary earner as you'll need to prove by providing income slip. Unless you fraud your income slip. But than again, be reminded that bank does employment verification and if caught fraudulent; some bank shares their fraudulent lists with other banks. So you're only jeopardizing yourself. |
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Jan 12 2010, 08:02 PM
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#4
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I know there are people who inflate their bank account as well, deposit RM3000 today, withdraw RM2800 3 days later.
In one month time your bank statement looks pretty, bank wouldn't look at the balance isn't it? |
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Jan 12 2010, 08:21 PM
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#5
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9,137 posts Joined: Jun 2007 From: Wouldn't be around much, pls PM other mods.
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QUOTE(kbandito @ Jan 12 2010, 08:02 PM) I know there are people who inflate their bank account as well, deposit RM3000 today, withdraw RM2800 3 days later. Basically the bank looks at couple of months. Some even reaches 6 months. So consistently they monitor the pattern of debit and credit to the accounts to come up with the assumptions your earnings. Thus if one wants to do that, they'll need to do what you suggested for at least 6 months to be safe. But than again, they'll find the abnormality of the withdrawal pattern too. In one month time your bank statement looks pretty, bank wouldn't look at the balance isn't it?  Obviously there's ways to work around it. One have to be smart and hope the credit officer attending to the case is not as smart. |
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Jan 12 2010, 08:22 PM
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#6
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5,612 posts Joined: Jan 2009
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Always do the right thing.....
dont we get it sepandai-pandai tupai melompat, akhirnya jatuh jugak ke lantai. |
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Jan 12 2010, 09:13 PM
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#7
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2,293 posts Joined: Jan 2003
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QUOTE(kbandito @ Jan 12 2010, 05:16 PM) As quoted, if compounding is the 8th wonder, then leverage is the 9th. sure can bro. technicalities like stamped loan agreement can be done up. But problem is after u minus RM2310 from your RM3k (assuming its take home), minus your income tax, are you really going to live on circa RM500/month?I have been thinking lately, is it feasible to inflate your declared income in order to qualify for more housing loan from the bank? An individual with RM3,000/month salary can qualify for a RM320,000 housing loan at BLR-1.8% for 30 years tenure with RM1,480 installment per month. This is the borrowing limit if the bank can only give 50% of the income threshold. Let's say this is for own stay hence there is no rental income. No rental income means you only declare RM36,000 income to the IRB, and paying tax according to that tax bracket. So, if this individual spots a golden opportunity in another property for investment purpose, there is no reason for bank to grant him another loan because he is already at the borrowing limit. Therefore the golden opportunity has to be let go. If, this individual falsely declare a rental income of RM1,500 per month from the property to the IRB and pay more tax, he gets a declared income of RM54,000. He declares a full year rental income, and try to apply for a second loan. He shows the tax form to bank, is it possible for the bank to grant him another RM180,000 housing loan at BLR-1.8% for 30 years tenure with RM830 installment per month? Combining the first and second loan, that totals to RM2,310 monthly fixed commitment, 51% of the monthly income of RM3,000 salary & RM1,500 rental income. Ok, if rental income is not recognized easily by the bank, this individual can easily register for a trading business and declare income from there. This might sounds like crime in the first place but I believe it is not hard to do some twisting to legitimize it. One can only leverage to a certain limit, if he can afford or ready or prepared to take such a risk in leveraging beyond bank's comfort level, the opportunity for profits is more. Of course the investment decision must be an informed decision. Talking about this 'method', is this feasible? |
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Jan 12 2010, 09:28 PM
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#8
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QUOTE(Minolta @ Jan 12 2010, 09:13 PM) sure can bro. technicalities like stamped loan agreement can be done up. But problem is after u minus RM2310 from your RM3k (assuming its take home), minus your income tax, are you really going to live on circa RM500/month? If we take the above example, the second loan is for investment purpose, if one does not see cash surplus every month after installment and maintainence fee, there is no rationale to do that.Many people succeed for loans after the bank officer checked the inflated bank statement, that is of less problem I guess? Added on January 12, 2010, 9:30 pmBy the way, worst come worst the bank can call back the security after they find out about the fake income. But as long as you pay promptly, I don't see any reason for the bank to really dig into your financial standing isn't it? This post has been edited by kbandito: Jan 12 2010, 09:30 PM |
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Jan 12 2010, 09:34 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
4,695 posts Joined: Jan 2005
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No need to cheat like that.
Just go take up a loan from a different bank & pray that the bank didn't find out of your existing commitment. But to be frank, how much u earn a month? Have u ever think about the consequences of you unable to service your loans? |
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Jan 12 2010, 09:46 PM
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Senior Member
12,534 posts Joined: Mar 2009 From: Penang, KL, China, Indonesia....
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 People who over leverage like that in the last property bubble mostly end up bankrupt. You also want to follow in their footsteps ah?  If BLR goes up by 1.5% also you in trouble, you have to pay about 2,800 per month. Are you trying to bet against the BLR for the next 30 years? Also if your unit have trouble renting out (rent yields are very low now) then where are you going to find money and fork out 2-3 months rental per year? (assuming vacant rate 8% (1mth)+ govt tax (1mth) + agent fees (1mth).  This post has been edited by gark: Jan 12 2010, 09:47 PM |
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Jan 12 2010, 09:46 PM
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Senior Member
1,139 posts Joined: Aug 2008
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Banks has learn from their mistake & take into account approving loans. To approve a loan it takes many eyes, & the officer who dare to approve is putting his neck on the choping board.
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Jan 12 2010, 10:27 PM
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Senior Member
1,217 posts Joined: Jan 2006 From: Kuching<-->KL/PJ
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QUOTE(kbandito @ Jan 12 2010, 08:02 PM) I know there are people who inflate their bank account as well, deposit RM3000 today, withdraw RM2800 3 days later. it's better not to inflate your account through this method. bank will simply tag it as a suspicious transaction, will be asking for more supporting documents from you. worst comes the worst, you'll be tagged 'high risk' which will hinder all your loan application or even be suspected of money laundering.In one month time your bank statement looks pretty, bank wouldn't look at the balance isn't it? banks do look at statement balance/closing balance. e.g: business man/sole prop. have a very high turnover every month, but his balance is very low (4-5k per month or less), his income derived by the bank is practically zero. (normally businessman's income derived is roughly between 10-17% of his average monthly balance, different bank different calculation) malaysia bank's policy is very tight and strict if you were to compare with other countries. no such thing as 100% approve nowadays, all subjected to bank's decision.  |
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Jan 12 2010, 10:50 PM
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Senior Member
3,318 posts Joined: Dec 2004 From: 1Malaysia 
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QUOTE(kbandito @ Jan 12 2010, 05:16 PM) As quoted, if compounding is the 8th wonder, then leverage is the 9th. Is this do-able? --- YESI have been thinking lately, is it feasible to inflate your declared income in order to qualify for more housing loan from the bank? An individual with RM3,000/month salary can qualify for a RM320,000 housing loan at BLR-1.8% for 30 years tenure with RM1,480 installment per month. This is the borrowing limit if the bank can only give 50% of the income threshold. Let's say this is for own stay hence there is no rental income. No rental income means you only declare RM36,000 income to the IRB, and paying tax according to that tax bracket. So, if this individual spots a golden opportunity in another property for investment purpose, there is no reason for bank to grant him another loan because he is already at the borrowing limit. Therefore the golden opportunity has to be let go. If, this individual falsely declare a rental income of RM1,500 per month from the property to the IRB and pay more tax, he gets a declared income of RM54,000. He declares a full year rental income, and try to apply for a second loan. He shows the tax form to bank, is it possible for the bank to grant him another RM180,000 housing loan at BLR-1.8% for 30 years tenure with RM830 installment per month? Combining the first and second loan, that totals to RM2,310 monthly fixed commitment, 51% of the monthly income of RM3,000 salary & RM1,500 rental income. Ok, if rental income is not recognized easily by the bank, this individual can easily register for a trading business and declare income from there. This might sounds like crime in the first place but I believe it is not hard to do some twisting to legitimize it. One can only leverage to a certain limit, if he can afford or ready or prepared to take such a risk in leveraging beyond bank's comfort level, the opportunity for profits is more. Of course the investment decision must be an informed decision. Talking about this 'method', is this feasible? Will you get higher loan quantum --- PROBABLY YES Is this feasible -------- NO |
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Jan 13 2010, 12:03 AM
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Senior Member
864 posts Joined: Apr 2006
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yes you can do that.
get the loan and buy the property. make sure ur able to service the loan. if cash reli tight try getting money from oth sources and in the mean time, sell it if possible. if really big problem comes out, then sell the property. u might even make some profit. |
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Jan 13 2010, 12:07 AM
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Senior Member
520 posts Joined: Mar 2009
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no big head, wanna wear big hat.
no need so yam yam sup sup... brave enuf get a parang or buy a gun and go rob the bank... in any case, both ways are breaking the laws  |
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Jan 13 2010, 12:22 AM
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Junior Member
314 posts Joined: Nov 2008
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adui...i wanna buy my first 1 to invest also scare till wanna shit already, u so ganas wanna leverage till the max...
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Jan 13 2010, 12:33 AM
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Senior Member
1,216 posts Joined: Mar 2009 From: Cut Throat Land
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I sure wish that the Bank Negara raises the BLR
2% more will see the market flooded with lelong properties. That is the power of leverage. |
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Jan 13 2010, 12:41 AM
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4,695 posts Joined: Jan 2005
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QUOTE(duckaton @ Jan 13 2010, 12:33 AM) I sure wish that the Bank Negara raises the BLR Anxiously waiting for that to happen. 2% more will see the market flooded with lelong properties. That is the power of leverage. |
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Jan 13 2010, 12:51 AM
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Staff
25,802 posts Joined: Jan 2003 From: Penang
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For those want to do this kind of stuff, please read through about the biggest real estate bubble in US that almost crippled the whole world financial system.
It is almost the identical mindset that send the whole world economy in deep shit. Interbank rate is at lowest in history, how can it goes even lower? If it does go even lower (KLIBOR rate around 2%), it just means economy is having more trouble again, which won't be good for properties price nor rental issue. |
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Jan 13 2010, 08:29 AM
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Senior Member
4,790 posts Joined: Dec 2008
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Go to try apply other bank, heard that CTOS only update twice per year. wont so update...unless your 1st loan application more than/exceed 6 mths..
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Jan 13 2010, 11:42 AM
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9,137 posts Joined: Jun 2007 From: Wouldn't be around much, pls PM other mods.
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QUOTE(cutealex @ Jan 13 2010, 08:29 AM) Go to try apply other bank, heard that CTOS only update twice per year. wont so update...unless your 1st loan application more than/exceed 6 mths.. It is not CTOS which the bank relies on to trace one's commitment.It is CCRIS. Whereby it shows all facility threads. From all this lines, they would know ho wmuch you owe for cards, hire purchase, mortgage, OD etc... From this balances and lines, they would calculate your commitment to compare against your salary to see whether or not you qualify. |
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Jan 13 2010, 11:45 AM
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1,410 posts Joined: Jan 2010
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QUOTE(scorgio @ Jan 13 2010, 12:41 AM) Anxiously waiting for that to happen. I will call Puan Zeti This afternoon to Up the BLR today  |
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Jan 13 2010, 12:07 PM
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Senior Member
1,139 posts Joined: Aug 2008
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QUOTE(duckaton @ Jan 13 2010, 12:33 AM) I sure wish that the Bank Negara raises the BLR +1 2% more will see the market flooded with lelong properties. That is the power of leverage. |
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