While watching movies using my POHD with 24p set to ON, I feel very dizzy especially panning actions but when I set to off, I still feel dizzy but it is reduced. What is this exactly? Is this what we called Motion Judder? My TV supports 1080p/24Hz.

This post has been edited by echoesian: Jan 10 2010, 06:54 PM

Yes, it is motion judder. Happens to me too. One way to reduce the effect is to use higher refresh, for e.g. 120Hz. Use your TV function to add frames so that the panning is not so "jerky". Try to make it a multiple of 24. My TV can only do 50Hz and 60Hz, and I find 50Hz is a better setting for me.

How do you change the setting from the TV?

it has to have this function first.. able to accept 24Hz input and also multiple frame rate to 72hz...

The Panasonic 42S10K that I'm using can supports 1080p/24fps

when you say support, that is input that it supports,
what is the output...

Not sure about the output, you mean something like frame interpolation thingy?

frame interpolation means create new frame that is different from the source..

this means doubling or tripling of the same frame..

Meaning to say the TV must be able to interpolates the frames in order to reduce the judders?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm

The S10 I believe accepts 24fps, however, I suspect refreshes it at 24Hz or 60Hz. Thus it seems juddery. The G I believe refeshes at 48Hz. The V refreshes at 96Hz.

Correction, in Asia, on the Z and the V series do proper 24Hz.

Also, echoesian, what r u using as a source? Is it set to convert the framerates? I ask this becoz some media players have only 1 fixed output. If u r mismatching the actual content with the output frame rate this will yield and extremely juddery film.

Edit: Saw that u use the ACRyan. Check to see if ur source frame rate is being modified by the Ryan.

This post has been edited by anfieldude: Jan 11 2010, 09:55 AM

Bro Anfieldude do U have any info for Sammy B650 plasma on this 24p thinggy?

Thanks.

I think the Sammys refresh at 48Hz. I'm not too sure, I will have to check and get back to u.

Thanks bro...I can't find that info anywhere...

more importantly, we have to identify which TV properly identifies 24HZ from 23.97..

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Added on January 11, 2010, 1:25 pmbuy first as guinea pig, then complain here to let us know, if it's not doing it correctly..

This post has been edited by ar188: Jan 11 2010, 01:25 PM

U think this is a RM600 media player that can be sold easily is it?

ar188,

I know the Pioneer can identify 24Hz vs 23.976Hz and refresh accordingly. I think the Sammys do it as well correctly, if u disable the MotionPlus stuff and turn of the processed mode.

Some others I am not too sure, but I suspect Sony does it correctly as well.

For example, if I were to watch a 1080p/24fps movie, I can only set the HDMI output of the POHD to 1080p/60Hz or 1080p/50Hz and there is a setting to on/off the 24p. When I set the 24p to ON, whichever the output (1080p/60 or 1080p/50) feels very dizzy. When I set the 24p to OFF, the outputs also dizzy but I can see it reduces a bit.

check blood pressure and full health test..

Haha high or low blood pressure that cause this?

let me watch few season of House MD and Grey's anatomy first.. will get back to you ASAP..

Hmm, wonder if the POHD is converting 24p stuff to 60Hz and back to 24p. Maybe that causes some dropped frames. Something is not right.

Seems to be something that warrants further investigation to before commenting.

Doesn't the POHD have a separate output that says 1080p/24?

Need to go check out the WDTV live.

My colleague who uses WDTV always complains about these judder and 24p motion issues on his panny X plasma. I never faced such things before on my dinosaur 50" fishtank although we use the same media player and source.

I believe it is the problem of handling a 24p source.

echoesian,

Do u notice 24p judder when u watch movies in the cinema? 24p judder will be there as the 24 frames per second can be noticed by the eye if one is observant. Most home displays counter this with 48Hz, 72Hz, 96Hz and 120Hz (even 240Hz) that is basically meant to reduce the possibility of the eye notcing the frames. However, if this is not done correctly, the film actually starts to look like video.

I don't accept it that some of these display companies remove the 24p handling on their lower end displays. It really sucks.

Do u notice it on a BD player playing a BD? If u do, then the display is the limitation. If u don't then the problem could be the media player, a setting on it, or just the implementation (source as well).

But media players sometimes have their own quirks and I woudl suggest u investigate further.

Yes I do usually feel dizzy when watching fast action movies in Cinema especially if sit in front going to vomit...

then it's human problem..

Yeah, then I guess u r one of those people that will notice 24p judder. I would suggest getting a display that can refresh at a minimum of 72Hz. Sorry to give u the bad news. The S does not do it, hence the judder will always be there for u.

Normally the higher refresh rates are available on the higher end plasma and LCDs. The lower end ones either convert to 60Hz, or refresh at 48Hz.

OMG, Optometrist can help ar? Maybe my eyesight no good... I'm short-sighted in the 600-700 power range

I tried setting Cinema Smooth on Samsung plasma and it does indeed reduce judder. One easy way to check is to fast forward to the ending credits of a movie.

With Cinema Smooth (CS) on, the text scrolling will be smoother (not much) as compared to with Cinema Smooth off. The source is via POHD on 1080/24p (the Samsung conveniently display the current source resolution at the upper left corner of the screen / or by pressing the INFO button on the remote).

Digging further on net, apparently Samsung CS does 4:4 pulldown (96Hz), while Panasonic uses 2:2 pulldown (48Hz) except in their V/Z series.

Though the source of information may not be officially verified, that could be the reason why the Panasonic display may affect you more in terms of the dizziness.

For me, CS on or off no dizziness...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1146191

i tot panny plasmas are capable of 600Hz playback and all that rubbish wat

That should reduce the judder rite??? or at least that what i remember their brochures saying.

Yeah most of the Panasonic Plasma is 600Hz even the lower end X series is 600Hz but too bad the S series is only 550Hz....maybe because of this

that's subfield processing .. not same as screen response time of LCD (which plasma is over 10times faster than LCD IIRC hence no need to be listed as 2ms etc)..

i see, is there really any kind of media dat would require such a low refresh rate anyway???

can we assume judder affects some models of lcds/ plasma more than others? or is it usually/always a source issue?

WDTV can play 1080/24p?

Can lah...it's half-baked, not uncooked.

i hv no idea what that means

That's raw mate..

Just now tested by using 720p/50Hz as the output of the POHD, the motion handling is much better... but the question is why do I need to downgrade the output since the source is in 1080p???