Hi I'm very interested to learn Gu Zheng. I've been trying to make some Gu Zheng sounds on my guitar for fun for a long time already but it cannot beat the real thing ~~ I have been learning classical guitar for 6-7 years, but mainly playing other genres (not talking about strum and sing -.-) and tried a bit of harmonica and piano.

Especially after I've discovered a huge Chinese Traditional Music competition by CCTV. Although sometimes they use traditional instrument to play western classical songs. They upload all content for free at huain.com and you can download any mp3 or video or music sheet for free. There is A LOT of things.

Seriously you must watch it if you've never heard of it. Besides playing a piece they have to improvise on a short video clip and play the background without any time to prepare.

Edit: Here's the full clip http://tv.huain.com/html/1785.html

Does anyone know any music centres or teachers in KL or Cheras or Serdang? And anyone want to sell their Gu Zheng? Can you give me some tips on buying GuZheng and choosing a good teacher (signs of a good teacher)

Thank you.

This post has been edited by JieXian: Feb 9 2011, 04:20 PM

I read back until July 2010 But couldn;t find the post about the sound effect. I read the post on page 4 about drying process - how can I judge a gu zheng and look for signs?

You also mentioned about wood used. It is good information which is similar to classical guitar but I always listen to the sound and worry too much about the wood of course - I always compare with my own guitar because many semi decent ones sound good to me, but mine is actually better when I went back the second time with my guitar. The problem is that for Gu Zheng I have no reference point and no experience. It is not surprising at all to me if one guitar with better wood sounds inferior to another guitar because there are so many many other things involved.

Teachers are a big problem in my opinion. PhilBoey said that most teachers and his own teacher taught him the "wrong" things and he had to relearn a lot of things when he went to China. Same thing for flamenco. A lot of bogus US people on youtube and even Malaysians don't have good technique and many aren't even playing flamenco but falsely label their music as flamenco. Since there's a saxophonist here I would think you have some problems about Kenny G calling his stuff "jazz"

I have a sister and a cousin who learnt piano and they don't seem to know much about music at all. My sister learnt the same time as me and all she knows is to play notes written on the sheet, following the forte or piano. I met another guy at a guitar exam who is in the same situation as my sister, his teacher didn't show him anything. I'm very sure most music students are like that, especially classical piano players.

OF course I taught my sister and cousin and things are different, but although I discovered a lot of things myself and thanks to the internet, my teacher also played a big role in exposure.

What I think is important in actually learning music is ability to play and feel rhythms - with accents by ear, improvisations, exposure to and eventually enjoying music that is not just mainstream club pop (I'm not anti-mainstream but the recent trend of the "songs" that are out around 2010 onwards, at least in the 90's people on the radio actually knew at least simple theory) and of course putting a feeling or mood into a song which does not come from reading the piano and forte signs on the paper.

Edit: Even the formal ABSRM "theory" my sister learnt until grade 6 or 7 was somewhat useless although she always got 90+ for her exams. I read up articles and watch some videos and asked her a few things but she doesn't seem to have learnt simple and useful (imo) things. Simple things like thinking about structure of music (eg ABABCBB), function (very angry with this) of all the scales she and so many piano players practiced like a robot. I flicked through her book before and I was wondering why there are so many general things taught but not the essentials (imo) first.

Improvisation, musicality, playing by ear and feeling the accents and rhythm are very hard to master but I firmly believe in teaching people that so that they will slowly learn. I believe everyone even pros are working those everyday.

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I already PMed empire but I hope you will allow me to meet you all - I don't mind at all if you want to meet each other without anyone intruding because I'm just an outsider - But I can say that I don't mind sitting and just listening without making noise. Mostly I'm very interested to meet musicians because I really only know a few people who don't just play pop songs.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by JieXian: Feb 9 2011, 04:05 PM

Oh you meant that. Actually I already knew it from guitar knowledge. It's exactly the same techniques so I just scanned past that post and didn't really notice it ~ h

Actually I was blaming the teacher for not teaching really basic, and important things to a music student - or rather they don't know or aren't aware of it due to their own learning experience.. I don't know. But even I had to find out many basic things for myself, although my teacher really taught me a lot of things that are very rarely taught or taught correctly especially flamenco, I still had to find out improvisation and scales and their uses for myself.

It may be common sense but the 2 piano players (Students) I know don't know what a scale is for. My simple answer is to produce different moods or sounds. Like pentatonic to make Chinese music sounds or minor pentatonic for bluesy sound. Very simple. No knowledge of complex theory stuff needed at all.

If I sat for a theory exam I'll most probably fail. But I had to teach my grade 5-6 ABRSM piano student sister how to read chords like A7 or BmM7 b5 and how to get a simple blues rhythm... I'm not proud of it but I don't know all the tempos at all. All I know is the meaning of lento and allegro but that's because I relate to other things not about classical music...

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Anyways, I've just got a Gu Zheng from my former neighbour who very generously lended/gave it to me. Her friend gave it to her 11+ years ago. The volume and tone sound really good to me, much louder that my guitar. It may be a beginners one a long time ago but I have a feeling the same wood will be very expensive now . It's a 16 string which I'm very happy with because it isn't too big. However would a 16 string be very restricting?

I've just tuned it to the c pentatonic scale (should be correct right?) and played around trying to play something sounding chinese then later end up playing blues in A major with a backing track

So I plan to start taking lessons after June or July because of my guitar exams and changing the rusty strings and a broken one. Can some please tell me about good places to learn from in the Klang Valley maybe? I'm from Serdang so PJ and Subang is too far to go for classes.

1 more question. Is there a huge difference between the nylon strings and steel strings in gu zheng? From my experience in guitars I prefer nylon more. It's more comfortable to my nails to play and most of all IT WONT RUST.

Thank you.

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By the way, I read something about strings many pages behind. My opinion from guitar is that tension matters a lot. The higher the better - even more than guitars to me. There was a really superior guitar on light tension strings which sounded lacking to me - it took some time and experimenting for me to find out the cause. I changed the old light strings to a new hard tension one on my old guitar and I went from hating it to actually smiling when i heard the difference.

And an .012 (light) ~RM65 elixir sounds as good as a 0.013 (medium) ~RM30 forgot-what-brand. So I think price/grade matters too because 0.013 is so dam hard to play like pressing on knives supported by hard springs. For comparison 0.011 or 0.010 is around the same tension as nylon hard tension to me.

This post has been edited by JieXian: Feb 12 2011, 12:47 AM

by 18 strings you mean 16 strings?

Haha the gu zheng never been touched for so long it sounds like it should be in C. Ya, pentatonic major means no 4 and 7.

Thanks for inviting me. Can you please PM me the address or something? I'm not familiar with the place.

I have a lot of questions so maybe I kacau you all on that day la

Aiya sorry I didn't read the thread for a day. If not I would have brought my guitar. I thought I will only be watching all the sifus play gu zheng hahaha but aisehhhhhh got so many problems. Stand wobbling la this la that la drunk la nervous la...

Actually there's a lot of different types of pentatonic. The one without 4 and 7 is Ionian Pentatonic. For example this is, 1 3 4 6 b7. But I don't know what is it called.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhBHCwZ7SXk&feature=related

Thank you all the sifus for all the advice!

Subangman I've already found the address to PCCO. Is it the only one in KL/Cheras or near Serdang?

Thanks.

This post has been edited by JieXian: Feb 16 2011, 12:40 PM

按音,点音 and 滑音 All are called bending in western music I think. That's why I was a bit blur, but I know what the difference is thanks to your demonstration la.
But of course any instruments that can bend got use those 3 techniques. Just that they are all called bending.

揉音and 颤音 is vibrato. 1 less 1 more vibrato.

Can watch the videos in this place to confirm the difference between 按音,点音 and 滑音.
http://v.guqu.net/guzhengT/6912.html

Thanks thanks. After my guitar exam I plan to buy a proper 21-string after listening to you. At first I thought all must be 1k-2k but ehhh actually can be like KG's one cheaper

What to doooo my father not big dai kor own company 1... He also don't support me learning music. He said gu zheng for girls to play only. And girly boys. "See this guy play gu zheng one. PONDAN OR NOT?"

"Have you heard of [Jack of all trades, master at none] or not?" he said to me. "Lucky you didn't go Australia, if not you will come back buying their long big ugly sounding horn simply POOOT POOOT POT. HAahahahaHahahAHa"

But of course la he really support me with studies la.

Slowly start with basic and wait till I got money lo... If you can sell me your old 1 cheap cheap then I will be very happy also



This post has been edited by JieXian: Feb 18 2011, 03:57 PM

Hahaha no la he really don't think it's important. My semester is starting in March (meaning the whole gu zheng thing was happening during my break) and I don't have much problems with studies, although I'm not a top student at all la. My mother is worried about my studies but supports music things. My father, not too much.

My father thinks it's a waste of money mostly. Lucky I didn't begin with electric guitar.. If not habis.

And that me playing gu zheng is a big joke ~ Go relative's house watch a drama saw the 太监 playing gu zheng straight away laugh at me T_T


But I'm not angry or very disappointed la. I know it's expensive -- for normal people like us.

Mr Subangman please upload the GuZheng guitar video when you're free.

If got gathering please call me

http://www.mpo.com.my/Upcoming-Performance...nese%20Charmers

don't have their names one..

Edit: oh only watching is it -.-

This post has been edited by JieXian: Mar 2 2011, 10:00 PM

I want to see the video also


Sifus,

I'm very happy to have found a very experienced flamenco dancer who is willing to guide me already. So..... right now focusing on that. Very very hard and a lot of things to learn and practice. Main problem is the 12 beat rhythm. We all only used to 4/4.

Have to delay learning gu zheng for now ~ See how it goes first.

This post has been edited by JieXian: Apr 7 2011, 09:48 PM

haaaaaaaaaahahaha I really want to learn it also but for now I'm practicing the guitar.

Since dancers usually work together with singers and guitarists in a flamenco show. She can guide me a lot. Really dam knowledgeable. Felt like when empire taught and showed me some stuff.

Before meeting her I was not learning the right things. For example not everything is suitable to dance with. So she gave me cd's and dvds from her huge collection and ask me practice.The rhythm and stucture of the song very different from what I usually listen to.

Just an example la: They get to take turns to be "featured" and the whole time there are a lot of freedom and the guitarist need to accompany according to what the others are doing. Most full ones last longer like 7-9 minutes because of the structure la .. but I'm not too sure about that.

This one must let you try.. the dancer's moves so handsome.



But it takes some time to get used to the singing/wailing la.

(It may feel like random stepping but actually he is following a rhythm la. I'm still working hard to internalise it"

This post has been edited by JieXian: Apr 8 2011, 01:42 PM

yes yes of course

No.... Be PRO only can be PROfession. Not if it's your profession but you not pro then pokai la

Bu of course la I know what you're trying to say. It's your job then you can spend all the time in the world on it

Hopefully la I can la She's a dancer looking for guitarist to accompany I think, and very willing to help me.

She can guide me to structures that's suitable for dancers. For example some people play for singers or as guitar solo pieces- those which aren't suitable to dance to. She gave me a lot CDs and DVDs to listen to la. Then I have to figure out to play it by myself. And refer to some websites too la not purely her.

Guitarists add music notes according to the rhythm. Dancers add some movements (and percussions). The hardest part is internalising the rhythm la basically, which as I said earlier, is something that dancers also have to do and hence can guide me.

The problem is teachers are hard to find here... And most flamenco players spend a lot of time learning by starting with accompanying dancers and singers.


If you are interested and are free, http://www.youtube.com/user/ruspoli#p/c/9/IIM2Iqf8suc This channel is a huge eye opener. That guy document his flamenco journey in Andalucia.

This post has been edited by JieXian: Apr 15 2011, 12:35 AM

Waaa very interesting maybe next year's sale I can buy. Or when I convince my mother to learn gu zheng so that I don't need to pay for one But that 1 hard a bit la she not very proud of chinese stuff.

If got empire that performance cheap I want to go

From what I see than keejan place not for beginners right? Like all performance recording only.

This post has been edited by JieXian: May 4 2011, 10:45 PM

I want! Especially if can see people jamming. But mid -end of June only my exams over, timetable not out yet.

Wa if got keng gu zheng player I'm very interested! But must remind her to bring her own stand later she complain shaky. XD

But otherwise I don't know la next week is 2nd last week of the semester @a@aA@HhHh. I see how much work I can finish first.

This post has been edited by JieXian: May 13 2011, 12:27 AM

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Actually I'm not very sure if I could have went at all whether or not she is going to perform at all. I didn't say something like 'I can make it'or 'i can definitely come'

I've just told my very good friend that I've not met in about 2 months that I cannot meet him for lunch after a long time. But I'm willing work hard to meet you all even if mei mei is not performing.

Now I read again then only realised what it can mean la. But please don't take it that way, I'm really feeling very pressured from the amount of work I have but I really enjoy music a lot. I've just been having a dilemma on whether to go right before my exams and I typed out my mind without thinking too much. I hope empire you can confirm for me that I'm really passionate about music, just that I'm not good enough.

When I'm surrounded by people thinks the top 200 US hits are the best songs ever, I am really happy to find some people who think differently and are so much more skillful and knowledgeable than me.

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About the shaky thing,

Sorry mr faceless I was joking only about the shaky board part. I always talk to my friends like that. Err we talk to each other like that la. Too used to it and forgot that you are not the same age as me and that I cannot simply talk. I most probably won't be able to talk like that in person into your face. But because this is a forum so I forgot about it as I couldn't see you.

Not that I'm saying you're lousy or a whiner. The girl was supposed to be super good and of course I'm interested to watch, so I was trying remind subangman based on a lesson I learnt from what happened with you that day, that the keyboard stand isn't strong enough for a big gu zheng, but in a way that pokes at you a bit la.

I respect people like you all a lot 1 but I accidentally got 'too friendly', that's all la sorry.
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I hope you can forgive me la.

This post has been edited by JieXian: May 13 2011, 05:02 PM

Wait.... I think you misunderstood me.

Mei mei IS the "keng Gu Zheng player" I was talking about. Subangman said that he isn't sure if she would come so I said that I would be very interested to come despite having a lot of work if I am able to witness a high grade Gu Zheng player for the first time.


About me offending you, I'm sorry I don't know or forgot what I said so I cannot argue with you about that except maybe about 点音 and 滑音 but that shouldn't be it. That was just a case of guitar not distinguishing between all the different techniques and so a 滑音 looked the same as 点音 to me and I don't think that would have offended you.

This post has been edited by JieXian: May 31 2011, 03:31 PM